To ban or not to ban LPC's

[Mushtang]

Reminds me of the whole, "LPC's must be great cuz so many people hunt them" argument.

I have no doubt that this is actually what you hear us saying. Edited March 3, 2007 by Mushtang

[Mushtang]

My challenge: One post to make your case!

 

You folks who don't like LPCs state your case, one time.

 

Us Staunch Defenders Of Everything Lame will state ours, once.

 

Then close the thread.

 

No proselitysing, no attempt to convert, to argue - everyone's had their say and it's time to go geocaching!

Nah. Keystone already put some rules to this thread that would determine who gets to say what. That didn't work out so well since he's either no longer paying attention, or the Survivor Game rules are no longer in effect.

[+TrailGators]

Reminds me of the whole, "LPC's must be great cuz so many people hunt them" argument.

I have no doubt that this is actually what you hear us saying.

Some of you have said exactly that.

[Mushtang]

Reminds me of the whole, "LPC's must be great cuz so many people hunt them" argument.

I have no doubt that this is actually what you hear us saying.

Some of you have said exactly that.

Really? Got a link? I know I never said that because a lot of people hunt a cache it must mean they're great.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Reminds me of the whole, "LPC's must be great cuz so many people hunt them" argument.

I have no doubt that this is actually what you hear us saying.

Some of you have said exactly that.

Really? Got a link? I know I never said that because a lot of people hunt a cache it must mean they're great.

If I haven't then I will! If "a lot" of people do anything it's because they like it!

 

If "a lot" of people hide and seek LPCs, guess what, LPCs are popular!

 

If LPCs are widely popular and growing, they are by definition great caches!

 

It would be interesting to see how many LPCs are logged as opposed to hiking traditionals. I expect it would be way in favor of LPCs!

 

Yup, I hunt them all, and I have never met a cache I don't like!

[+TrailGators]

Reminds me of the whole, "LPC's must be great cuz so many people hunt them" argument.

I have no doubt that this is actually what you hear us saying.

Some of you have said exactly that.

Really? Got a link? I know I never said that because a lot of people hunt a cache it must mean they're great.

I never said that you said it, but your cohorts have said it many times on this thread and on others. By the way, TAR just said it again....

 

Like I said before, I have learned what "more" people enjoy through my own hides over the years, and I have adapted to improve my hides because hiding caches is not about pleasing yourself, it's about pleasing others. So the "more" people that your cache pleases, the better your cache is. Is this logical?

Edited March 3, 2007 by TrailGators

[vagabond]

Some of the arguments here have the ring of reformed drunks or smokers... or newly saved Christians... so proud of their reformation that it's now their 'duty' to reform others!

 

'I used to like LPCs, but now I don't, and neither should you' is my reading of several poster's attitudes.

 

Shades of my good buddy SouthDeltan, who once loved numbers micros and is now dedicated, loudly, to their destruction!

 

Sinner's repent while yet there is time!

 

'I have seen the light!' you say? Great. Proud for ya. I like it here in the dark.

 

The problem is proselysation. Once you've seen your light and announced it publicly, you're done.

 

We hear it, we're impressed, or not, end of story!

 

The problem comes when you see Your light and make it your defining cause.

 

It becomes obsessively important to convert others to your thinking.

 

A kind of panic sets in and you become convinced that micros/LPCs/global warming/the devil/cancer or all of the above are ruining your/the/everyone's game/the world... you start in with 'see my light, convert to my way or be damned! We must save the game from people like you!'

 

That's unfortunately what's happening in this thread.

 

Why is that a problem? Why should we care what agenda you promote, how loudly, how often or to whom?

 

Because you promote it in a public forum, with many newbies who may not know that you are on a mission.

 

To keep reason, flexibility, goodness. rightiousness and our way of playing alive we have no choice but respond and rebut.

 

Those of you pounding this platform surely know this. Any decent debater knows that the attacker occupies the high ground and right or wrong defenders have their work cut out for them!

 

Now we have a nice fence built, with 'Do it your way' on one side and 'You must cache my way' on the other.

 

Forget debate, the competition for hearts and minds is on!

 

This leads to a vicious circle, a downward spiral with no good end.

 

Division. Name-calling. Insults. 'I'm Right'. 'No, You're Wrong!'. Some of the strangest and most bizarre attempts at justifying each side's beliefs and practices. 'Facts' and 'statistics' pulled from thin air.

 

The word 'most'. I love that one! Employed by both sides, we use 'most' to assert that the majority agree with and support our assertions... they're just not speaking up so we have to do it for them!

 

'They'... Another great debate word! We're smart, we know 'them', know what 'they' think and what 'they' want! Just don't ask us who 'they' are, that's not polite!

 

'The majority'... . Gotta love that supporting phrase! The majority of whom? How do you know this? But man doesn't it sound persuasive? Authoritative. We are empowered by our belief that our thinking reflects that of 'the majority'.

 

My challenge: One post to make your case!

 

You folks who don't like LPCs state your case, one time.

 

Us Staunch Defenders Of Everything Lame will state ours, once.

 

Then close the thread.

 

No proselitysing, no attempt to convert, to argue - everyone's had their say and it's time to go geocaching!

 

Woohoo great post Ed

[+Team Quincy]

800+ posts about lamp post caches. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

[+TrailGators]

800+ posts about lamp post caches. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

.......and we are still a looooooong way from having one post for every LPC out there........

[+tomfuller & Quill]

My one post on the subject of Lamp Post Caches:

 

I have never hunted a micro in a lamp post and probably never will.

I have found micros after dark in well lit areas of town parks.

I have found micros in the woods both on the ground and hanging in trees.

I have no problem with anyone who choses to hide or seek this type of cache.

There are thousands of other caches that I would rather seek.

 

I've been wearing my LPC's on my feet for about 40 years! (Leather Personnel Carriers).

 

I think I've said enough on the subject. I have tried not to offend anyone. Lets all try to get along.

 

Tom Fuller

Crescent, Oregon

[+TrailGators]

My one post on the subject of Lamp Post Caches:

 

I have never hunted a micro in a lamp post and probably never will.

I have found micros after dark in well lit areas of town parks.

I have found micros in the woods both on the ground and hanging in trees.

I have no problem with anyone who choses to hide or seek this type of cache.

There are thousands of other caches that I would rather seek.

 

I've been wearing my LPC's on my feet for about 40 years! (Leather Personnel Carriers).

 

I think I've said enough on the subject. I have tried not to offend anyone. Lets all try to get along.

 

Tom Fuller

Crescent, Oregon

Nice to meet you Tom. Good post!

[+Team Quincy]

800+ posts about lamp post caches. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

.......and we are still a looooooong way from having one post for every LPC out there........

 

So when you have one post for every LPC can we expect this to stop??? My money is on NO.

[+The Jester]

Obviously many people like to pick up the tabloids at the supermarket check-out. Perhaps they also like to find the LPC hidden in the parking lot while they are there.

An interesting analogy. Reminds me of a poll which the Oviedo Herald conducted several years ago regarding local lunch time eateries. As I recall, the first question was something to the effect of, "If money and time were not an issue, what restaurant would you pick as your favorite place to grab lunch?" They listed several places around Oviedo, including Outback Steakhouse, Hooters, Olive Garden, Bennigans, etc, and included the 7-11 convenience store. Outback won hands down. Then they asked the same people where they actually ate lunch for the past week, and 7-11 beat all the "good" restaurants combined. While trivial at best, this poll taught me that just because folks do something a lot, doesn't necessarily mean they love doing it. Reminds me of the whole, "LPC's must be great cuz so many people hunt them" argument.

So we need to limit 7-11's, although they are popular and are hit a lot, because given a choice everyone prefers somewhere else. So they don't "love" it, that doesn't mean get rid of it.

 

And for the record, I've never claimed LPC's are "great because so many people hunt them" - I contend "because so many people hunt them, they shouldn't be limited/banned".

[Clan Riffster]

'I used to like LPCs, but now I don't, and neither should you' is my reading of several poster's attitudes.

"You shouldn't voice any opinion that differs from mine" is my reading of several poster's attitudes.

 

If "a lot" of people do anything it's because they like it!

Lots of people smoke. Many of those who smoke don't like it. Lots of people drink too much. Many of those who drink too much don't like it. Lots of people sit on their duffs for 16 hours a day watching what passes for entertainment on TV, growing more depressed by the day. Just because a "lot" of people do a repetitive task, doesn't mean the "majority" like it. Your logic is getting circular.

 

If "a lot" of people hide and seek LPCs, guess what, LPCs are popular!

Or, it could mean that geocaching is devolving to the lowest common denominator.

 

If LPCs are widely popular and growing, they are by definition great caches!

Growth is not always an accurate measure of greatness. Farming & housing are both growing exponentially in South America. Those who appreciate the rain forests might not call that growth "great". Violent crimes in East Los Angeles are growing. Does that make violent crimes great? No. One is not a valid measure of the other.

 

It would be interesting to see how many LPCs are logged as opposed to hiking traditionals. I expect it would be way in favor of LPCs!

Of course. LPC's take less, (if any), effort both physically and mentally. Considering our nation's trend toward laziness, it wouldn't surprise me to see that a cache requiring zero thought to locate and zero calories burned to retrieve would have more signatures than one requiring a day hike. You might feel that lameness is something to be embraced. I see it as something to be vilified. Your aforementioned proofs demonstrate nothing more than the fact that laziness is popular. A look at the waistline of your average American, (like mine!), is all you need to prove that. Does that mean it's a good thing? Apparently so, by your definition.

[Clan Riffster]

So we need to limit 7-11's, although they are popular and are hit a lot, because given a choice everyone prefers somewhere else.

Why would you want to limit 7-11's? Oh....sorry. I didn't recognize the sarcasm.

I contend "because so many people hunt them, they shouldn't be limited/banned".

Most would agree with you. Very few posters to this thread are calling for anything to be banned or limited.

[+TrailGators]

It would be interesting to see how many LPCs are logged as opposed to hiking traditionals. I expect it would be way in favor of LPCs!

Of course. LPC's take less, (if any), effort both physically and mentally. Considering our nation's trend toward laziness, it wouldn't surprise me to see that a cache requiring zero thought to locate and zero calories burned to retrieve would have more signatures than one requiring a day hike. You might feel that lameness is something to be embraced. I see it as something to be vilified. Your aforementioned proofs demonstrate nothing more than the fact that laziness is popular. A look at the waistline of your average American, (like mine!), is all you need to prove that. Does that mean it's a good thing? Apparently so, by your definition.

There was actually someone that posted an idea to have a virtual world computer game that would allow you to cache from your laptop. I wonder if all the caches would be LPCs in that virtual world? I bet the game would sell like hotcakes if they were.... Edited March 3, 2007 by TrailGators

[Clan Riffster]

But would you get smileys?

[+TrailGators]

But would you get smileys?

Yes! The best thing about the virtual world is that whenever you find an LPC near a trash dumpster, you can't smell it! It makes those caches even better! But then again maybe some people "like" smelly trash dumpster LPCs, so I shouldn't say that.... Edited March 3, 2007 by TrailGators

[Double Agents]

Ok, let's throw one more vote on to the fence of... I just don't care ANYMORE!

 

---

Compared to a hiking Traditional, LPCs suck! (less challenge, less fun)

Compared to a hiking Traditional, LPCs are great! (faster, less effort, more numbers)

---

Compared to an LPC, hiking Traditionals suck! (too much exercise, more challenge)

Compared to an LPC, hiking Traditionals are great! (outdoors, more variety)

---

 

Look, it's the exact same argument that we're always having about the "dadgum Traditionals" vs. the "dadgum Micros". Yes, they're very small with no room for trades, and most are cookiecutter; but if you want easy and fast numbers, then they work; or try putting a 50mm ammo can behind a brick on a building in the city. Yes, an ammo can in the forest does get repetetive after a while. Yes, a film can hidden in a lamp post skirt does get repetetive after a while. We need variety. Quit the bitching and moaning, and get out there and invent a whole new form of geocache that'll either: piss off even more people, or make everyone bow down to your ultimate new cache style.

 

But the absolute most important thing to say about either form of the game that is being a bone of contention is that NEITHER side will EVER manage to convert the other through pointless arguments online. A wise guy once said Arguing on the internet is like winning the Special Olympics; even if you win, the other side still thinks you're really "special".

 

I might as well shut up now, nobody's gonna listen anyway. This is just going to keep going on and on like the wars over who has the better imaginary friend; never going to realize that they both have really good imaginary friends, and that some are better suited to certain things. Meanwhile, the rest of the WORLD has no clue what Geocaching even is, let alone what type of cache is the best.

[+DrAwKwArD]

Meanwhile, the rest of the WORLD has no clue what Geocaching even is, let alone what type of cache is the best.

And it's best we leave it this way. I've said it once and I'll say it again: One too many micros and the only story we'll be hearing (for all the world's ears to listen to) is "in the news today is the cracking down on geocaching, the sport where hiders find themselves placing cache containers without permission around the world. And the repercussions are..."

 

Then they'll know. I'd rather they stay muggles, personally.

Edited March 3, 2007 by cache-n-dash

[+tozainamboku]

I have no doubt that many of the people who do like to find LPCs in parking lots prefer a cleverly camo'd cache hidden in a bus stop. I sure that plenty would rather go to the little neighborhood park they didn't know about and find a fake sprinkler. Some might prefer something a bit larger with swag to trade, hidden in a guard rail or or in a bush along the bike path. It may be that in some areas there are more LPCs than other types of caches. When I look for urban caches I tend to find more magnetic altoids tins in newsracks or bison tubes hanging in trees and fence posts, than caches in lamp posts. You're probably right that a LPC would not make many people's list of most favorite hide. If time and money and physical ability were no object, then perhaps no one would hide an LPC. At least they would not be anyones first choice for hiding a cache. But face it, there are people who will hide an LPC because it is easy to do. And people that will find them because they are easy to find. These people still enjoy doing this - just like people continue to eat lunch at the 7-11.

 

I still don't understand how Outback Steakhouse won over Hooters.

[+TrailGators]

I have no doubt that many of the people who do like to find LPCs in parking lots prefer a cleverly camo'd cache hidden in a bus stop. I sure that plenty would rather go to the little neighborhood park they didn't know about and find a fake sprinkler. Some might prefer something a bit larger with swag to trade, hidden in a guard rail or or in a bush along the bike path. It may be that in some areas there are more LPCs than other types of caches. When I look for urban caches I tend to find more magnetic altoids tins in newsracks or bison tubes hanging in trees and fence posts, than caches in lamp posts. You're probably right that a LPC would not make many people's list of most favorite hide. If time and money and physical ability were no object, then perhaps no one would hide an LPC. At least they would not be anyones first choice for hiding a cache. But face it, there are people who will hide an LPC because it is easy to do. And people that will find them because they are easy to find. These people still enjoy doing this - just like people continue to eat lunch at the 7-11.

 

I still don't understand how Outback Steakhouse won over Hooters.

I think you are right. As far as Outback winning it must have been the female vote. I go Hooters because I love the hot wings... Edited March 3, 2007 by TrailGators

[+Retcon]

I haven't read all 822 previous posts, so this may have been mentioned before, but to say that many LPCs in an area implies that people in that area tend to prefer hunting them isn't a valid statement.

 

If there are many LPCs in an area, that only indicates that (perhaps some) people in that area prefer *hiding* them.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

I haven't read all 822 previous posts, so this may have been mentioned before, but to say that many LPCs in an area implies that people in that area tend to prefer hunting them isn't a valid statement.

 

If there are many LPCs in an area, that only indicates that (perhaps some) people in that area prefer *hiding* them.

Yup, I forgot the little radio signal their GPS sends to their brain. "You must find this cache. You must find this cache. Doesn't matter that you don't like it, you must find this cache"

 

I did forget that, sorry!

 

So it's the radio wave's fault so many folks find LPCs, who da thunk it?

 

Maybe all those folks need tin-foil hats so they aren't forced to find all those pesky LPCs they don't like.

[+Retcon]

If there are many LPCs in an area, that only indicates that (perhaps some) people in that area prefer *hiding* them.

Yup, I forgot the little radio signal their GPS sends to their brain. "You must find this cache. You must find this cache. Doesn't matter that you don't like it, you must find this cache"

 

I did forget that, sorry!

 

So it's the radio wave's fault so many folks find LPCs, who da thunk it?

 

Maybe all those folks need tin-foil hats so they aren't forced to find all those pesky LPCs they don't like.

That's totally different. The number of finds does relate directly to the desire to find them. And with their availability, of course. Someone could just *love* finding LPCs and not have any around, I suppose. I think I'd feel sorry for that man. Twice

[Clan Riffster]

I go Hooters because I love the hot wings...

Riiiggghhhttt...... Love them wings!

[Mushtang]

800+ posts about lamp post caches. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

.......and we are still a looooooong way from having one post for every LPC out there........

 

So when you have one post for every LPC can we expect this to stop??? My money is on NO.

Or you could just not click on the link to enter this thread. That way it'll stop for you.

[Mushtang]

So we need to limit 7-11's, although they are popular and are hit a lot, because given a choice everyone prefers somewhere else.

Why would you want to limit 7-11's? Oh....sorry. I didn't recognize the sarcasm.

I contend "because so many people hunt them, they shouldn't be limited/banned".

Most would agree with you. Very few posters to this thread are calling for anything to be banned or limited.

Yeah, in a thread titled "To ban or not to ban LPCs", the people in here bashing LPCs actually want more to be hidden.

[+TrailGators]

So we need to limit 7-11's, although they are popular and are hit a lot, because given a choice everyone prefers somewhere else.

Why would you want to limit 7-11's? Oh....sorry. I didn't recognize the sarcasm.

I contend "because so many people hunt them, they shouldn't be limited/banned".

Most would agree with you. Very few posters to this thread are calling for anything to be banned or limited.

Yeah, in a thread titled "To ban or not to ban LPCs", the people in here bashing LPCs actually want more to be hidden.

Try answering what I posted above to answer that:

 

Like I said before, I have learned what "more" people enjoy through my own hides over the years, and I have adapted to improve my hides because hiding caches is not about pleasing yourself, it's about pleasing others. So the "more" people that your cache pleases, the better your cache is. Is this logical?

[+Outspoken1]

Seems to me this thread has been discussed several times before. For my 2 cents worth - a cache is a cache is a cache. Some are more difficult than others. Some areas are limited in locations to hide a cache. Some cachers are beginners or with kids who need a "easier" cache. I get tired of soggy film case logs (film cases are NOT waterproof). But I am not for banning them.

 

One warning with LPC - watch out for wasp nests! In the metro Denver area, we have many paper wasps who often nest in improperly sealed light post aprons.

 

Remember, this is a volunteer activity and supposed to be fun!!

 

Take care,

Outspoken1

[Mushtang]

Try answering what I posted above to answer that:

 

Like I said before, I have learned what "more" people enjoy through my own hides over the years, and I have adapted to improve my hides because hiding caches is not about pleasing yourself, it's about pleasing others. So the "more" people that your cache pleases, the better your cache is. Is this logical?

I read this over and over and I'm not sure what your point is, or what you're referring to. You want me to answer your question of "Is this logical" in order to answer what?

[+TrailGators]

Try answering what I posted above to answer that:

 

Like I said before, I have learned what "more" people enjoy through my own hides over the years, and I have adapted to improve my hides because hiding caches is not about pleasing yourself, it's about pleasing others. So the "more" people that your cache pleases, the better your cache is. Is this logical?

I read this over and over and I'm not sure what your point is, or what you're referring to. You want me to answer your question of "Is this logical" in order to answer what?

Is it logical that the better the cache, the more people that will enjoy it? Edited March 3, 2007 by TrailGators

[+Team GeoBlast]

800+ posts about lamp post caches. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

.......and we are still a looooooong way from having one post for every LPC out there........

 

So when you have one post for every LPC can we expect this to stop??? My money is on NO.

Or you could just not click on the link to enter this thread. That way it'll stop for you.

 

I personally love this thread and it has nothing to do with the personal immunity idol that I was awarded.

 

But all of the people dropping in and asking for it's demise brings me back on topic... it is not easy to ignore something that is everywhere and ever expanding, like LPCs in commercial parking lots . You might not like it.. but it is like a train wreck.. it's really hard not to look sometimes. Just because people look, does it make it a good thing?

[+The Jester]

Try answering what I posted above to answer that:

 

Like I said before, I have learned what "more" people enjoy through my own hides over the years, and I have adapted to improve my hides because hiding caches is not about pleasing yourself, it's about pleasing others. So the "more" people that your cache pleases, the better your cache is. Is this logical?

I read this over and over and I'm not sure what your point is, or what you're referring to. You want me to answer your question of "Is this logical" in order to answer what?

Is it logical that the better the cache, the more people that will enjoy it?

I guess it depends on which logic you use. Does more finders mean more are pleased? Or few finders that are more pleased? And how do you measure this? "More people who like hiking caches like my finds than the people who like LPC's" - that's an honest type poll. So which pleased me more, the LPC on the path in the woods which surprised me (I wasn't expecting that type of hide there), or the ammo can hidden behind a stump in the woods that took four hikes (twice in the rain, this is the Great Pacific North Wet) and several emails with the hider to try and get the "correct" co-ords (which seemed to put me farther away)? Which is the "better" cache? Again it's all subjective and opinion.

[+TrailGators]

Try answering what I posted above to answer that:

 

Like I said before, I have learned what "more" people enjoy through my own hides over the years, and I have adapted to improve my hides because hiding caches is not about pleasing yourself, it's about pleasing others. So the "more" people that your cache pleases, the better your cache is. Is this logical?

I read this over and over and I'm not sure what your point is, or what you're referring to. You want me to answer your question of "Is this logical" in order to answer what?

Is it logical that the better the cache, the more people that will enjoy it?

I guess it depends on which logic you use. Does more finders mean more are pleased? Or few finders that are more pleased? And how do you measure this? "More people who like hiking caches like my finds than the people who like LPC's" - that's an honest type poll. So which pleased me more, the LPC on the path in the woods which surprised me (I wasn't expecting that type of hide there), or the ammo can hidden behind a stump in the woods that took four hikes (twice in the rain, this is the Great Pacific North Wet) and several emails with the hider to try and get the "correct" co-ords (which seemed to put me farther away)? Which is the "better" cache? Again it's all subjective and opinion.

 

So we need to always measure things instead of using common sense? I know that there are caches they everyone talks about at events. There are caches that many people recommend. There are caches that people write long logs about when they find them to show their appreciation. So should we measure how many people talk about them at events or how many people recommendation them or how many words people use in there logs to prove something that we already know?

[Mushtang]

800+ posts about lamp post caches. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

.......and we are still a looooooong way from having one post for every LPC out there........

 

So when you have one post for every LPC can we expect this to stop??? My money is on NO.

Or you could just not click on the link to enter this thread. That way it'll stop for you.

 

I personally love this thread and it has nothing to do with the personal immunity idol that I was awarded.

 

But all of the people dropping in and asking for it's demise brings me back on topic... it is not easy to ignore something that is everywhere and ever expanding, like LPCs in commercial parking lots . You might not like it.. but it is like a train wreck.. it's really hard not to look sometimes. Just because people look, does it make it a good thing?

I'm going to award you with another idol. You have used more straw men arguments in a single thread than any I can remember, so you get the awe inspiring Straw Man Idol. All hail king of the straw man.

 

This latest example suggests that if we can't look away from a train wreck (a bad thing) then other stuff we can't look away from must also be bad. Therefore LPCs must be bad since they are "everywhere and ever expanding".

 

Geocaches as a whole are "everywhere" (more places than LPCs) and "ever expanding" (expanding quicker than LPCs), so does your logic also mean that geocaches as a whole are a bad thing?

[Clan Riffster]

Yeah, in a thread titled "To ban or not to ban LPCs", the people in here bashing LPCs actually want more to be hidden.

Is anyone suggesting hiding more LPC's?

 

I guess it depends on which logic you use. Does more finders mean more are pleased? Or few finders that are more pleased?

The number of people who find a cache is not an accurate measurement of how much those people enjoyed it.

 

I'm going to award you with another idol, the awe inspiring Straw Man Idol. All hail king of the straw man.

Hello Pot. My name is kettle. My, you're looking mighty black today.

[+TrailGators]

There are a range of caches from least enjoyable to most enjoyable. The counter-argument that nobody knows which are the least enjoyable and which are the most enjoyable is complete bull. Anyhow, the point being made is caching is more fun when people try to hide caches that are closer to the most enjoyable and farther away from the least enjoyable. LPCs are among the least enjoyable caches. So all we can do is "ask" people to try a little harder to make the game more fun for all of us. So that is what we are doing.

Edited March 4, 2007 by TrailGators

[Mushtang]

Yeah, in a thread titled "To ban or not to ban LPCs", the people in here bashing LPCs actually want more to be hidden.

Is anyone suggesting hiding more LPC's?

That was sarcasm!

Actually, I'd like a few more LPCs hidden, near hotels where I'll be staying on business trips that don't have any caches nearby. Unfortunately I don't know where these are specifically yet but I'm hoping someone hides a few wherever they may be.

 

I'm going to award you with another idol, the awe inspiring Straw Man Idol. All hail king of the straw man.

Hello Pot. My name is kettle. My, you're looking mighty black today.

Oh yeah, laughing man? Where? Point to me using a straw man argument in this thread. I'd like to see either a link, or an apology. I seriously doubt I'll get either.

[Clan Riffster]

I'd like to see either a link, or an apology. I seriously doubt I'll get either.

Congratulations. You've finally managed to type something factually correct in this thread.

[Mushtang]

I'd like to see either a link, or an apology. I seriously doubt I'll get either.

Congratulations. You've finally managed to type something factually correct in this thread.

Predictable.

 

Not only have you made the claim that I've used straw man arguments, but you're unwilling to stand behind what you say and show me where. SOP for C R. You deserve the meaningless insult idol or something.

[+tomfuller & Quill]

Said I was only going to post once, but felt I should respond to recent posts. As I said before, lets all try to get along.

In answer to Mushtang, If a place exists on the perimeter of a hotel parking lot that will hold a small or ammocan cache and the hotel management will allow it please don't put in a LPC.

Near the Portland OR airport is a cache that I stop by at least once a year. It is a blue ammocan with a full size logbook which usually has at least 4 TB's in it. It is designated as the PDX TB Embassy. It is adjacent to the parking lot of the Embassy Suites. The first time I visited, I wrote a thank you note on one of my postcards and took it to to front desk addressed to the manager who allowed it to be there.

If someone had put a LPC on the lot, this great cache would not exist. If you have a LPC on hotel property, please ask if you can put in a slightly larger cache that could hold at least 1 TB. Some hotel managers realize that they might get some business from cachers if they are cooperative.

It all comes back to asking permission and what the landowner/management will allow.

I'll get off the soapbox now.

Tom Fuller

[Mushtang]

Said I was only going to post once, but felt I should respond to recent posts. As I said before, lets all try to get along.

In answer to Mushtang, If a place exists on the perimeter of a hotel parking lot that will hold a small or ammocan cache and the hotel management will allow it please don't put in a LPC.

Near the Portland OR airport is a cache that I stop by at least once a year. It is a blue ammocan with a full size logbook which usually has at least 4 TB's in it. It is designated as the PDX TB Embassy. It is adjacent to the parking lot of the Embassy Suites. The first time I visited, I wrote a thank you note on one of my postcards and took it to to front desk addressed to the manager who allowed it to be there.

If someone had put a LPC on the lot, this great cache would not exist. If you have a LPC on hotel property, please ask if you can put in a slightly larger cache that could hold at least 1 TB. Some hotel managers realize that they might get some business from cachers if they are cooperative.

It all comes back to asking permission and what the landowner/management will allow.

I'll get off the soapbox now.

Tom Fuller

Sounds good to me! I agree totally.

 

However I only said near hotels, not necessarily at hotels. I've enjoyed several multi-mile walks to get to parks, wooded areas, etc. to find lots of lovely ammo can or tupperware caches. I've also stayed at locations where the only cache I had hopes of getting to was an LPC at a strip mall, a theater, or other lamp post nearby. I was happy these were there. I'd rather go find an LPC than not go caching at all. But I'm not suggesting anyone else has to agree, but they can't tell me I'm wrong either.

 

I've stated before that I think permission is a good idea. Getting adequate permission is a guideline that the reviewers should be enforcing as much as any other quideline. And I think they are.

[Clan Riffster]

you're unwilling to stand behind what you say

What I'm "unwilling" to do is continue feeding the argument monster. Thanx for the Insult Idol. I'll carry it with pride.

[Mushtang]

you're unwilling to stand behind what you say

What I'm "unwilling" to do is continue feeding the argument monster. Thanx for the Meaningless Insult Idol. I'll carry it with pride.

I guess anyone can make claims if they're not willing to back them up.

 

You weren't "feeding the argument monster" when you insulted me with a false claim?

Edited March 4, 2007 by Mushtang

[+Team GeoBlast]

800+ posts about lamp post caches. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

.......and we are still a looooooong way from having one post for every LPC out there........

 

So when you have one post for every LPC can we expect this to stop??? My money is on NO.

Or you could just not click on the link to enter this thread. That way it'll stop for you.

 

I personally love this thread and it has nothing to do with the personal immunity idol that I was awarded.

 

But all of the people dropping in and asking for it's demise brings me back on topic... it is not easy to ignore something that is everywhere and ever expanding, like LPCs in commercial parking lots . You might not like it.. but it is like a train wreck.. it's really hard not to look sometimes. Just because people look, does it make it a good thing?

I'm going to award you with another idol. You have used more straw men arguments in a single thread than any I can remember, so you get the awe inspiring Straw Man Idol. All hail king of the straw man.

 

This latest example suggests that if we can't look away from a train wreck (a bad thing) then other stuff we can't look away from must also be bad. Therefore LPCs must be bad since they are "everywhere and ever expanding".

 

Geocaches as a whole are "everywhere" (more places than LPCs) and "ever expanding" (expanding quicker than LPCs), so does your logic also mean that geocaches as a whole are a bad thing?

 

Sorry, I do not feel like providing you with the pissing contest you seek by saying things like this. Congrats... you've just been added to my ignore list.

[Mushtang]

800+ posts about lamp post caches. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

.......and we are still a looooooong way from having one post for every LPC out there........

 

So when you have one post for every LPC can we expect this to stop??? My money is on NO.

Or you could just not click on the link to enter this thread. That way it'll stop for you.

 

I personally love this thread and it has nothing to do with the personal immunity idol that I was awarded.

 

But all of the people dropping in and asking for it's demise brings me back on topic... it is not easy to ignore something that is everywhere and ever expanding, like LPCs in commercial parking lots . You might not like it.. but it is like a train wreck.. it's really hard not to look sometimes. Just because people look, does it make it a good thing?

I'm going to award you with another idol. You have used more straw men arguments in a single thread than any I can remember, so you get the awe inspiring Straw Man Idol. All hail king of the straw man.

 

This latest example suggests that if we can't look away from a train wreck (a bad thing) then other stuff we can't look away from must also be bad. Therefore LPCs must be bad since they are "everywhere and ever expanding".

 

Geocaches as a whole are "everywhere" (more places than LPCs) and "ever expanding" (expanding quicker than LPCs), so does your logic also mean that geocaches as a whole are a bad thing?

 

Sorry, I do not feel like providing you with the pissing contest you seek by saying things like this. Congrats... you've just been added to my ignore list.

Walking away with your fingers in your ears is one way to go I suppose.

[+The Jester]

Try answering what I posted above to answer that:

 

Like I said before, I have learned what "more" people enjoy through my own hides over the years, and I have adapted to improve my hides because hiding caches is not about pleasing yourself, it's about pleasing others. So the "more" people that your cache pleases, the better your cache is. Is this logical?

I read this over and over and I'm not sure what your point is, or what you're referring to. You want me to answer your question of "Is this logical" in order to answer what?

Is it logical that the better the cache, the more people that will enjoy it?

I guess it depends on which logic you use. Does more finders mean more are pleased? Or few finders that are more pleased? And how do you measure this? "More people who like hiking caches like my finds than the people who like LPC's" - that's an honest type poll. So which pleased me more, the LPC on the path in the woods which surprised me (I wasn't expecting that type of hide there), or the ammo can hidden behind a stump in the woods that took four hikes (twice in the rain, this is the Great Pacific North Wet) and several emails with the hider to try and get the "correct" co-ords (which seemed to put me farther away)? Which is the "better" cache? Again it's all subjective and opinion.

 

So we need to always measure things instead of using common sense? I know that there are caches they everyone talks about at events. There are caches that many people recommend. There are caches that people write long logs about when they find them to show their appreciation. So should we measure how many people talk about them at events or how many people recommendation them or how many words people use in there logs to prove something that we already know?

I'm sorry, I don't know which side of the discussion of your question you are on. "So the "more" people that your cache pleases, the better your cache is. Is this logical?" I was trying to find out how to figure out which pleases more people.

LPCs are among the least enjoyable caches.

Again the opinion stated as a fact. Please see my previous post about "the Big Lie".

[+TrailGators]

LPCs are among the least enjoyable caches.

Again the opinion stated as a fact. Please see my previous post about "the Big Lie".

How would you know that it's not true? I've yet to run into anybody that says that they enjoy LPCs more than any other type of cache. Go ahead and name a few common types of cache hides that are less enjoyed than an LPC in a Wally World parking lot. I bet you can't. Edited March 5, 2007 by TrailGators

[Keystone]

My challenge: One post to make your case!

 

You folks who don't like LPCs state your case, one time.

 

Us Staunch Defenders Of Everything Lame will state ours, once.

 

Then close the thread.

 

No proselitysing, no attempt to convert, to argue - everyone's had their say and it's time to go geocaching!

Nah. Keystone already put some rules to this thread that would determine who gets to say what. That didn't work out so well since he's either no longer paying attention, or the Survivor Game rules are no longer in effect.

To the contrary, I'm still reading along. Generally everyone was playing nicely and posting thoughtfully. But at this time, the tribe has spoken and Mushtang is voted off the island.

 

Clan Riffster got a few votes at tribal council, but he's a smart player and will adjust his strategy. But in the Survivor Fantasy League, he's attracting a few picks for "voted off the traffic island" in the next episode.

 

Finally, Team GeoBlast received some votes at tribal council and had to use the hidden immunity idol. He's still in the game, but no longer has guaranteed immunity.

 

To everyone else, thanks for playing "Survivor: Traffic Island."