A Explanation of the change in Modding for the UK Forum

[Deceangi]

I feel everyone is owed a brief explanation over what is happening regarding the Modding of the UK forum, and why the relaxed approach by theUK Mods who have allowed what we believed to be in the best interest of the UK community. Has to cease and Modding now has to follow Groundspeaks Forum Guidelines.

 

Below is posted with the permission of Brian one of Groundspeaks Lackeys who is the author, hopefully it will explain the change in approach.

 

That said, it is and has always been a goal of Groundspeak to limit the commercial nature of the forums. This includes both commercial solicitations and solicitations for charitable purposes. The main reason for this is that if they were to be allowed, I strongly suspect that our forums would soon be filled with a large variety of advertisements, or a large variety of geocachers posting and saying such things as "I am doing the 10k run for _________ charity, please visit their website and donate." That would not make for a geocaching forum, it would make for a venue in which anyone could conceivably set up an account for the purpose of promoting whatever it is that they'd like to promote. I personally see it as our duty on behalf of geocachers to avoid such a scenario, or even a framework in which such a scenario might develop.

 

 

So, rather than make that scenario a possibility, we have asked that such topics not be included in the discussion forums except under very rare circumstances. These rules have, admittedly, not been as clear as they could be and they have also not been enforced equally around the world. So, while most people in many other forums realize that such discussions will not be entertained in these forums, elsewhere that has not been the case.

 

 

As a result, we are once again in a situation where we need to put the forums on equal footing and enforce the guidelines equally. After all, if we allow these topics in the UK forum, how can we justify prohibiting them elsewhere?

 

 

So, in my opinion, I do not believe that topics such as the Commando one should not be permitted. After all, just because geocachers participate, does not make it a geocaching event or a geocaching related event. That would be a very slippery slope indeed and we'd invariably end up with a forum filled with non-geocaching related items.

 

I'm sorry I will not at present answer any query's over the above or make any comments

 

Deceangi Volunteer UK Reviewer Geocaching.com

[+Us 4 and Jess]

I would like to know if my calendars will still be allowed to remain, I normally only do one calendar a year this year being an exception as I will be doing 2 one for The UK's Mega event and the yearly one I normally do.

 

I had permission to use logos and images on the calendar last year from Groundspeak so they are well aware of the calendars.

 

Can any of the UK Moderators let me know if they know the answer to my question and if not which of the Lackeys I need to contact to find out

 

And also what about the Mega Event Calendars, I already have permission to use the GC Logo on these for this years calendar, althought they could be a totally different matter as the money from these are not going to charity but to the Event Committee.

 

Mandy

 

I have been told who to contact thanks for the info

Edited April 22, 2008 by Us 4 and Jess

[+mongoose39uk]

Thanks for the explanation, I am sure we will get to know more later.

 

Mandy, think its best to let it rest for now

[+Birdman-of-liskatraz]

40 Geocachers helping others and having fun is wrong?

 

... other organisations would be delighted to have the good publicity...

 

shessh..

[+keehotee]

I personally see it as our duty on behalf of geocachers to avoid such a scenario, or even a framework in which such a scenario might develop.

A silly question I know - but have they actually asked any of the members - paying or otherwise - what they think?

That would not make for a geocaching forum, it would make for a venue in which anyone could conceivably set up an account for the purpose of promoting whatever it is that they'd like to promote.

And sorry - but doesn't the UK forum disprove that statement. I haven't seen us over-run with requests for sponsorship - or infact any significant number of non-caching related posts........

Could they not have used the success of the UK forum as a model for moderating other forums (forae??) instead?

[+keehotee]

deleted - double post

Edited April 22, 2008 by keehotee

[Lactodorum]

I would like to know if my calendars will still be allowed to remain, I normally only do one calendar a year this year being an exception as I will be doing 2 one for The UK's Mega event and the yearly one I normally do.

 

I had permission to use logos and images on the calendar last year from Groundspeak so they are well aware of the calendars.

 

Can any of the UK Moderators let me know if they know the answer to my question and if not which of the Lackeys I need to contact to find out

 

And also what about the Mega Event Calendars, I already have permission to use the GC Logo on these for this years calendar, althought they could be a totally different matter as the money from these are not going to charity but to the Event Committee.

 

Mandy

 

I have been told who to contact thanks for the info

Mandy, I am extremely sorry your excellent calendars have been caught up in this. As you know I have always been a supporter of them and have taken delivery of a couple. However as Deceangi has stated, we have no leeway here. You should apply to contact@geocaching.com for permission to post details of any calendars from now on. We do not have the authority to make exceptions in this matter.

[+studlyone]

I do not believe that topics such as the Commando one should not be permitted.

Now I am confused as to what is permitted and what isn't.....The clarification needs clarifying.

[+mongoose39uk]

While Charitable Activities may not be promoted on here, more than happy for them to be promoted on the GAGB forums

[+Birdman-of-liskatraz]

Would now be an opportune time to mention the Geocaching Association of Great Britians forums GAGB Forums

 

and the many excellent local forums, which maybe a much better place to discuss local charitable events involving Geocachers? There's a page of links to Regional Forums on the GAGB site.

 

and at the risk of self promotion the SW Cachers forum at SW Cachers Forum is currently discussing the topic of getting muddy in Devon.

[+Us 4 and Jess]

While Charitable Activities may not be promoted on here, more than happy for them to be promoted on the GAGB forums

 

Thanks for that Tony, I have had several emails already offering me help where to advertise ect and I have had offers of advertising from one company and two regional forums.

If anyone can help by advertising the calendars anywhere please let me know.

 

I have also emailed Groundspeak to ask where I stand on the charity calendars.

 

Mandy

[+Haggis Hunter]

I can understand any calenders being made for charity not to be allowed advertisement, but those for the mega event are a different case, and I believe that permission should be sought for the advertisement and discussion of these calenders.

[+careygang]

So, in my opinion, I do not believe that topics such as the Commando one should not be permitted.

 

Double negative?? I take it he did not mean that which he wrote??

 

Actually he has a point about the forums degenerating if not Modded; though we have been spoilt by a good responsible team in the UK.

Because of the time difference, I was on here last night whilst the UK was sleeping (just like now) and a new post appeared directing people to another site about a geocoin game. I checked the main index and all the other English language sites had the same post. Before I had time to write a reply about it being a big 'No No', it had disappeared from all of them. I suspect a Big Mod saw it and erased them all.

 

So we do have rules which need to be enforced, it's just that sometimes the wheat gets swept up with the chaff.

 

[+FollowMeChaps]

................So we do have rules which need to be enforced, it's just that sometimes the wheat gets swept up with the chaff.

 

 

"Rules are for the interpretation of the wise and the blind following of fools."

 

IMHO our UK moderators have done a fantastic job and should be left to get on with it without interruption form those abroad. At the very least they should have discussed it with our mod's who put in a fantastic amount of work on their behalf and allowed them to bring this up without the antagonism that direct intervention has created. Having a world-wide rule makes sense but it should be open to regional interpretation - we are all different and praise be!

 

 

sorry I've had to remove a phrase due to a complaint from a US citizen Deceangi

Edited April 23, 2008 by Deceangi

[+Molinnis]

Well I think it is sad that some [description removed by Deceangi]people in america can tell us and our excellent mods what we can and cannot do in our own forums.

 

I can honestly see me being £15 better off when my premium membership dues are payable again.

 

edited due to complaint from a citizen from the US over the description used Deceangi

Edited April 23, 2008 by Deceangi

[+HazelS]

I don't wish to get embroiled into the "calander / commando run / sponsored anything else malarky, but I DO want to say this:

 

Our reviewers / moderators do a fabulous job. Where else could you virtually guarentee your cache going live minutes from pressing send? Where else would you be able to call them up and say "I'm having trouble with x,y or z"

 

They Mods and review as they see fit. They know us - some as individuals, but also as a community, they know we won't stand any nonsense, and that we're quick to sort out our own problems our own way.

 

Our reviewers get a hard enough time as it is without someone poking their nose in from the States and waving a pointy stick at them.

 

Where were these USA based people when we had YEARS of a flakey service from Groundspeak? Where were they? I'll tell you where they were... Stuck in their ivory towers... that's where, watching the money pour in from the UK!

 

Sometimes we don't see the wood from the trees, and sometimes we have to stand back and get a little perspective....

 

I half agree with Groundspeak's statement above, I know I was getting a little fed up of charitable stuff ALWAYS on the forums, but the way they did it gave NO respect to our beloved reviewers, without whom there would be NO caching the UK.

 

Groundspeak: think about what you're doing next time, and perhaps take a little knowledge from the "UK 3" - They know us FAR better than you ever could.

Edited April 23, 2008 by HazelS

[+studlyone]

Superb post HazelS, I think that sums everything up. Our reviewers deserve more credit than anyone gives them.

[+mongoose39uk]

Superb post HazelS, I think that sums everything up. Our reviewers deserve more credit than anyone gives them.

 

I have to agree, these guys give up five or six hours a day to us and GS.

 

Seems to me for little thanks.

 

I may not always agree with them but I do know that they are always willing to help.

[+Big Wolf]

I strongly suspect that our forums would soon be filled with a large variety of advertisements

 

Does anyone else understand this? As far as I can see the UK is the largest of all the Groundspeak forums with almost 200,000 posts and clearly Brian's suspicions are unfounded as the UK forum has never been 'overrun' with advertising.

[+third-degree-witch]

................So we do have rules which need to be enforced, it's just that sometimes the wheat gets swept up with the chaff.

 

 

"Rules are for the interpretation of the wise and the blind following of fools."

 

IMHO our UK moderators have done a fantastic job and should be left to get on with it without interruption form those abroad. At the very least they should have discussed it with our mod's who put in a fantastic amount of work on their behalf and allowed them to bring this up without the antagonism that direct intervention has created. Having a world-wide rule makes sense but it should be open to regional interpretation - we are all different and praise be!

 

I'm afraid it's yet another case of the yanks imposing their own narrow vision on the rest of the world - and they wonder why they aren't popular.

 

Well I think it is sad that some jumped up people in america can tell us and our excellent mods what we can and cannot do in our own forums.

 

I can honestly see me being £15 better off when my premium membership dues are payable again.

 

Agreed

[+kennamatic]

I normally keep out of these threads where toys go flying and eveyone attacks everyone else, and Lord knows after 7 years of following this forum I've seen a few, but I would like to point out one thing. "The Yanks" aren't telling us what to do on a UK forum. They are telling us what to do on a section of a US owned and administered site which has been set aside for UK cachers to discuss UK geocaching. If a US cacher came over to one of our regional hosted forum sites and told us what to do I would be alongside telling them where they stood, but that's not the case. And the £15 (or whatever) we pay is for some additional features, not to run the site, not to make the rules, and everyone is free to be a non-paying member and they are none the lesser geocacher than those of us who do pay. (Breathes out)

 

I shall now wait to be flamed to a cinder. But whilst I do, I'll take this opportunity to add my thanks in this thread for all the good work our reviewers/moderators do.

 

(Goes off muttering about how it wasn't like this in my day.....gone to h*ll in a handcart......)

[+Happy Humphrey]

As far as I can see the UK is the largest of all the Groundspeak forums with almost 200,000 posts

I think that it's the fifth largest section of the forums, although the second biggest of the regional groups(counting all the US States together). Not that it means much really.

 

A trivial point perhaps, but kennamatic said what I was thinking anyway.

[+Maingray]

As far as I can see the UK is the largest of all the Groundspeak forums with almost 200,000 posts

I think that it's the fifth largest section of the forums, although the second biggest of the regional groups(counting all the US States together). Not that it means much really.

 

A trivial point perhaps, but kennamatic said what I was thinking anyway.

 

That's because we don't necessarily agree with the rules either and we all have our own regional state forums to have the real meaty discussions on . I think that most of the established cachers I know around here don't visit the GS forums. I find the UK forums to be one of the most lively to lurk in =}

[set_the_tone]

Sounds like **** intervention and I'm sorry I paid my 12 months subs yesterday; I will not be paying anymore after these 12 months have gone.

 

Please point this out to the idiots at GC.com who believe that the customer does not count!

 

RIP Groundspeak!

 

Annoyed

 

Moote

Edited April 23, 2008 by set_the_tone

[+davy boy]

Sounds like Nazi intervention and I'm sorry I paid my 12 months subs yesterday; I will not be paying anymore after these 12 months have gone.

 

Please point this out to the idiots at GC.com who believe that the customer does not count!

 

RIP Groundspeak!

 

Annoyed

 

Moote

Don't think you will be the only one Moote............................

[+The Hornet]

Sounds like N*** intervention and I'm sorry I paid my 12 months subs yesterday; I will not be paying anymore after these 12 months have gone.

 

Please point this out to the idiots at GC.com who believe that the customer does not count!

 

RIP Groundspeak!

 

Annoyed

 

Moote

As one of the people concerned directly, while I disagree with the way things have turned out, I think that the "Nazi" comment is uncalled for and I would be happy if a Moderator were to take appropriate action. Comments like that will get this forum a bad name and that is not something I have devoted my time and efforts to over the past 5 years. Shame on you.

 

And as an aside, if you sign the note as Moote, why are you using a sock puppet?

Edited April 23, 2008 by The Hornet

[+Moote]

Sounds like Nazi intervention and I'm sorry I paid my 12 months subs yesterday; I will not be paying anymore after these 12 months have gone.

 

Please point this out to the idiots at GC.com who believe that the customer does not count!

 

RIP Groundspeak!

 

Annoyed

 

Moote

As one of the people concerned directly, while I disagree with the way things have turned out, I think that the "Nazi" comment is uncalled for and I would be happy if a Moderator were to take appropriate action. Comments like that will get this forum a bad name and that is not something I have devoted my time and efforts to over the past 5 years. Shame on you.

 

And as an aside, if you sign the note as Moote, why are you using a sock puppet?

 

 

Comment edited by me, sorry about using a sock, I was unaware that I was in as my set_the_tone account setup for my friend.

 

 

Milton

[nobby.nobbs]

Unfortunately at the end of the day this is groundspeaks toy and they can do with it what they want to. I pay my money each year for the other features regarding caches and downloading etc. and I will probably carry on doing so for the same reason.

 

If we don't like their approach to how they want this forum moderated then we do have several options open to us all. There are the regional forums and the GAGB forums as well as geochat. All these are run by and moderated by UK cachers.

 

Not much point getting annoyed, this has happened and there's nothing we can do or say to change that.

 

It is just very sad that it has had repercussions that we will all feel.

[+John Stead]

Well put - Nobby Nobbs. It is time to sit back and let Deci do the best he can with his ex colleagues to maintain some continuity and no point in slagging off Groundspeak. They still provide us with an invaluable framework for our hobby/game/obsession for which I will still be happy to pay my annual contribution.

[+L8HNB]

We think it is so sad that there was such a splendid event in London recently, from what we saw on here because we couldn't attend, with a good turnout of the rank and file, TPTB and all the Mods, that things have turned out this way.

 

I guess the machine will still roll on, what ever we Brits think, but it dosen't make us two feel any better.

 

Guess we'll just have to watch this space.

 

H&L

[+Deepdiggingmole]

I feel everyone is owed a brief explanation over what is happening regarding the Modding of the UK forum, and why the relaxed approach by theUK Mods who have allowed what we believed to be in the best interest of the UK community. Has to cease and Modding now has to follow Groundspeaks Forum Guidelines.

 

Below is posted with the permission of Brian one of Groundspeaks Lackeys who is the author, hopefully it will explain the change in approach.

 

That said, it is and has always been a goal of Groundspeak to limit the commercial nature of the forums. This includes both commercial solicitations and solicitations for charitable purposes. The main reason for this is that if they were to be allowed, I strongly suspect that our forums would soon be filled with a large variety of advertisements, or a large variety of geocachers posting and saying such things as "I am doing the 10k run for _________ charity, please visit their website and donate." That would not make for a geocaching forum, it would make for a venue in which anyone could conceivably set up an account for the purpose of promoting whatever it is that they'd like to promote. I personally see it as our duty on behalf of geocachers to avoid such a scenario, or even a framework in which such a scenario might develop.

 

I havent been on the forum for a while due to another commitment which has taken up a lot of my time recently - suffice to say not to distantly related to the topic of this posting - thus I have missed a lot of what has gone on and in particular the sad news of the resigning of Ecki and Lacto - good luck to you both, your hard work and input will be missed and will be difficult shoes to fill. I am sitting here not feeling too good however as I recall a posting I had made not that long ago which was just that which is described above - I was spoken to about it by one of the moderators at the time and subsequently cooled down that particular thread - I am hoping now that it wasn't something that sparked off a debate that brought about the situation that has arisen.

Other than that - Can I say that walking Hadrians Wall was a great experience with 33 great caches along the way - I would recommend East to West every time

[fraggle69]

I do not believe that topics such as the Commando one should not be permitted.

Now I am confused as to what is permitted and what isn't.....The clarification needs clarifying.

 

Double neg, think it means that you can have ones like the commando topic. Might be a typo though!

[+Mr'D]

Double neg, think it means that you can have ones like the commando topic. Might be a typo though!

Agree. What a place to make a typo!

[fraggle69]

Nah don't think it's a typo, would explain all the contradictions of late though.

[+Gushoneybun]

Why has this been allowed to remain open in the GPS forum for 24 hours. A new account holder, no caches and selling something!

 

 

Just asking

[+sTeamTraen]

Why has this been allowed to remain open in the GPS forum for 24 hours. A new account holder, no caches and selling something!

 

Either because nobody reported it (until now ) or because it has permission from Groundspeak, although in the latter case I'd expect it to say "posted with permission".

 

The forum mods don't read every post and thread. There isn't time. They rely on people reporting things to quite a substantial extent.

[+careygang]

Why has this been allowed to remain open in the GPS forum for 24 hours. A new account holder, no caches and selling something!

 

Either because nobody reported it (until now ) or because it has permission from Groundspeak, although in the latter case I'd expect it to say "posted with permission".

 

The forum mods don't read every post and thread. There isn't time. They rely on people reporting things to quite a substantial extent.

 

Well now its gone so the system works...

[dodgydaved]

 

The forum mods don't read every post and thread.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, right

[+currykev]

I can understand any calenders being made for charity not to be allowed advertisement, but those for the mega event are a different case, and I believe that permission should be sought for the advertisement and discussion of these calenders.

 

If the calendars are taken to the event and placed on a stall "FOR SALE",I think they'll all be sold quite easily anyway,and as such,I can't agree that promoting them on GC forum pages can be an exception to the guidelines.These aren't new guidelines anyways,they have just been ignored by us in the UK forum pages.

I'm sure the could've been promoted on the Mega Event pages,without hinderence......

......but I may be wrong!