Worthless Hints

[+climbstuff]

I have seen the “worthless Hints” and “don’t bother to decrypt” Bookmarks by various users and find them quite entertaining. I have a few of my own Bookmarks which, to keep with the “feel good society’s unwritten code of caching etiquette”, I keep to myself

 

Over the past couple years urban caches have multiplied exponentially and it is impossible for some, if not most, cachers to visit every web page to read descriptions or subtle Hints in the logs about what they should be looking for once they start their search.

 

I use GSAK as my waypoint manager, which enables me to upload the cache “Hints” into my gps’ (Garmin Etrex series) notes field. This field is limited to 30 characters so I frequently get Hints like this; “If you really need help, then…”, “If you can’t find it try looki…”, or “If a hint you seek, try lookin…”. When it is obvious I can’t find it or I probably wouldn’t be looking for a Hint. Short, concise, and helpful Hints are a necessity in high Muggle areas to help YOUR cache stay active and maintenance free. I am a backwoods cacher and lack the grace, agility or Ninja skills required to look natural in most urban areas. I start getting paranoid after spending more than 30 seconds in the same spot when cars are whizzing by or people are gawking.

 

So, “why don’t I stay out of the urban areas” your asking? Hmmm, I’ve thought that myself quite a few times and can only relate it to an addiction. How easy is it to put caches on an “Ignore list”? Pretty easy, but you know its there every time you drive past the parking lot or street corner you glance over then glance at your watch, then glance over again, yeah, you’ve been there… before you know it a quick park and grab turns into a 20 minute search and wait, oh look there’s another one down the street… another 15-30 minutes. It’s like having a refrigerator or dry bar stocked with whatever adult beverage was left when you decided to make a New Years resolution to stop. Kind of hard to ignore when you see it every day. It may not be “top shelf” or “premium draft”, but its there and wants your attention.

 

Urban caches are not going to go away and I understand their purpose in the caching community. However, next time you visit your cache’s webpage could you consider adding or changing hints to something more field cacher friendly. Like; “nano knee high”, “hanging in tree eye level”, “lamp post”, “magnetic (nano) up high”, “down low right/left of PO box”, “under green whatever curb/far side”. What is enormously helpful is the four letters NANO.

 

How would this affect your caches’ difficulty rating? Well, let’s put it like this. If your urban cache is a 2 star or greater, does the location support an activity that can last 30 minutes or longer without drawing unnecessary or unwanted attention. What experience do you want cache finders to have while searching? I don’t enjoy, or surmise do others, having to revisit intended “park-n-grabs” or “cache-n-dash” style caches after coming back sending you (or more likely one of our cache buddies who have already found it since we don’t want you to know we couldn’t find a 1.5 star cache) an email for a HINT. What harm would an obvious hint do when I’m probably going to get one anyway? If the urban cache uber-masters don’t need them to find these caches, great! Then they don’t have to look at them.

 

Gas is quickly approaching $4.00 a gallon and the environmental concerns surrounding vehicle emissions are ever increasing. Revisiting one cache because I struck out, no big deal… now multiply that times a couple caches a month times every cacher. What impact are we really having as a community, collectively?

 

This was posted in our rarely visited local forums. I thought it would be better served if posted here. Where more eyes can read and more opinions can florish!

 

I agree entirely. Post a useful, short, unencrypted hint... or none at all!

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

I agree entirely. Post a useful, short, unencrypted hint... or none at all!

Ditto, as edited.

[Mr.Yuck]

I have seen the “worthless Hints” and “don’t bother to decrypt” Bookmarks by various users and find them quite entertaining. I have a few of my own Bookmarks which, to keep with the “feel good society’s unwritten code of caching etiquette”, I keep to myself

 

Over the past couple years urban caches have multiplied exponentially and it is impossible for some, if not most, cachers to visit every web page to read descriptions or subtle Hints in the logs about what they should be looking for once they start their search.

 

I use GSAK as my waypoint manager, which enables me to upload the cache “Hints” into my gps’ (Garmin Etrex series) notes field. This field is limited to 30 characters so I frequently get Hints like this; “If you really need help, then…”, “If you can’t find it try looki…”, or “If a hint you seek, try lookin…”. When it is obvious I can’t find it or I probably wouldn’t be looking for a Hint. Short, concise, and helpful Hints are a necessity in high Muggle areas to help YOUR cache stay active and maintenance free. I am a backwoods cacher and lack the grace, agility or Ninja skills required to look natural in most urban areas. I start getting paranoid after spending more than 30 seconds in the same spot when cars are whizzing by or people are gawking.

 

So, “why don’t I stay out of the urban areas” your asking? Hmmm, I’ve thought that myself quite a few times and can only relate it to an addiction. How easy is it to put caches on an “Ignore list”? Pretty easy, but you know its there every time you drive past the parking lot or street corner you glance over then glance at your watch, then glance over again, yeah, you’ve been there… before you know it a quick park and grab turns into a 20 minute search and wait, oh look there’s another one down the street… another 15-30 minutes. It’s like having a refrigerator or dry bar stocked with whatever adult beverage was left when you decided to make a New Years resolution to stop. Kind of hard to ignore when you see it every day. It may not be “top shelf” or “premium draft”, but its there and wants your attention.

 

Urban caches are not going to go away and I understand their purpose in the caching community. However, next time you visit your cache’s webpage could you consider adding or changing hints to something more field cacher friendly. Like; “nano knee high”, “hanging in tree eye level”, “lamp post”, “magnetic (nano) up high”, “down low right/left of PO box”, “under green whatever curb/far side”. What is enormously helpful is the four letters NANO.

 

How would this affect your caches’ difficulty rating? Well, let’s put it like this. If your urban cache is a 2 star or greater, does the location support an activity that can last 30 minutes or longer without drawing unnecessary or unwanted attention. What experience do you want cache finders to have while searching? I don’t enjoy, or surmise do others, having to revisit intended “park-n-grabs” or “cache-n-dash” style caches after coming back sending you (or more likely one of our cache buddies who have already found it since we don’t want you to know we couldn’t find a 1.5 star cache) an email for a HINT. What harm would an obvious hint do when I’m probably going to get one anyway? If the urban cache uber-masters don’t need them to find these caches, great! Then they don’t have to look at them.

 

Gas is quickly approaching $4.00 a gallon and the environmental concerns surrounding vehicle emissions are ever increasing. Revisiting one cache because I struck out, no big deal… now multiply that times a couple caches a month times every cacher. What impact are we really having as a community, collectively?

 

This was posted in our rarely visited local forums. I thought it would be better served if posted here. Where more eyes can read and more opinions can florish!

 

I agree entirely. Post a useful, short, unencrypted hint... or none at all!

 

I don't have any links handy, but useless hints are discussed all the time. Quite recently, a couple of reviewers revealed they actually look at hints, and make "suggestions" if they are useless.

 

The only comment I have is that I've never seen a useless hint bookmark list, and I think that's a little over the top, assuming these are public and on the cache pages. That doesn't mean I wouldn't like to see one, if someone has a link.

[+climbstuff]

The only comment I have is that I've never seen a useless hint bookmark list, and I think that's a little over the top, assuming these are public and on the cache pages. That doesn't mean I wouldn't like to see one, if someone has a link.

 

Linky

[Mr.Yuck]

The only comment I have is that I've never seen a useless hint bookmark list, and I think that's a little over the top, assuming these are public and on the cache pages. That doesn't mean I wouldn't like to see one, if someone has a link.

 

Linky

 

I take back what I said, that's pretty funny.

[+OzzieSan]

Hey cirrus142,

 

Nice avatar!

[+Kit Fox]

I have seen the “worthless Hints” and “don’t bother to decrypt” Bookmarks by various users and find them quite entertaining. I have a few of my own Bookmarks which, to keep with the “feel good society’s unwritten code of caching etiquette”, I keep to myself

 

Over the past couple years urban caches have multiplied exponentially and it is impossible for some, if not most, cachers to visit every web page to read descriptions or subtle Hints in the logs about what they should be looking for once they start their search.

 

I use GSAK as my waypoint manager, which enables me to upload the cache “Hints” into my gps’ (Garmin Etrex series) notes field. This field is limited to 30 characters so I frequently get Hints like this; “If you really need help, then…”, “If you can’t find it try looki…”, or “If a hint you seek, try lookin…”. When it is obvious I can’t find it or I probably wouldn’t be looking for a Hint. Short, concise, and helpful Hints are a necessity in high Muggle areas to help YOUR cache stay active and maintenance free. I am a backwoods cacher and lack the grace, agility or Ninja skills required to look natural in most urban areas. I start getting paranoid after spending more than 30 seconds in the same spot when cars are whizzing by or people are gawking.

 

So, “why don’t I stay out of the urban areas” your asking? Hmmm, I’ve thought that myself quite a few times and can only relate it to an addiction. How easy is it to put caches on an “Ignore list”? Pretty easy, but you know its there every time you drive past the parking lot or street corner you glance over then glance at your watch, then glance over again, yeah, you’ve been there… before you know it a quick park and grab turns into a 20 minute search and wait, oh look there’s another one down the street… another 15-30 minutes. It’s like having a refrigerator or dry bar stocked with whatever adult beverage was left when you decided to make a New Years resolution to stop. Kind of hard to ignore when you see it every day. It may not be “top shelf” or “premium draft”, but its there and wants your attention.

 

Urban caches are not going to go away and I understand their purpose in the caching community. However, next time you visit your cache’s webpage could you consider adding or changing hints to something more field cacher friendly. Like; “nano knee high”, “hanging in tree eye level”, “lamp post”, “magnetic (nano) up high”, “down low right/left of PO box”, “under green whatever curb/far side”. What is enormously helpful is the four letters NANO.

 

How would this affect your caches’ difficulty rating? Well, let’s put it like this. If your urban cache is a 2 star or greater, does the location support an activity that can last 30 minutes or longer without drawing unnecessary or unwanted attention. What experience do you want cache finders to have while searching? I don’t enjoy, or surmise do others, having to revisit intended “park-n-grabs” or “cache-n-dash” style caches after coming back sending you (or more likely one of our cache buddies who have already found it since we don’t want you to know we couldn’t find a 1.5 star cache) an email for a HINT. What harm would an obvious hint do when I’m probably going to get one anyway? If the urban cache uber-masters don’t need them to find these caches, great! Then they don’t have to look at them.

 

Gas is quickly approaching $4.00 a gallon and the environmental concerns surrounding vehicle emissions are ever increasing. Revisiting one cache because I struck out, no big deal… now multiply that times a couple caches a month times every cacher. What impact are we really having as a community, collectively?

 

This was posted in our rarely visited local forums. I thought it would be better served if posted here. Where more eyes can read and more opinions can florish!

 

I agree entirely. Post a useful, short, unencrypted hint... or none at all!

 

This is better served in the 11 page Useless Hints thread.

[+climbstuff]

This is better served in the 11 page Useless Hints thread.

 

I read that already. That thread was meant for posting 'actual' useless hints. Here, I hoped to generate discussion about it. Where, I would prefer a 30 character or less hint for GSAK to upload to my Garmin, under the waypoint's description block.

[+sbell111]

This is better served in the 11 page Useless Hints thread.

 

I read that already. That thread was meant for posting 'actual' useless hints. Here, I hoped to generate discussion about it. Where, I would prefer a 30 character or less hint for GSAK to upload to my Garmin, under the waypoint's description block.

I'd prefer a 1000 word or less opening rant that wasn't a copy and paste from another forum. I guess neither of us will get what we want.

Edited June 11, 2008 by sbell111

[+Kit Fox]

This is better served in the 11 page Useless Hints thread.

 

I read that already. That thread was meant for posting 'actual' useless hints. Here, I hoped to generate discussion about it. Where, I would prefer a 30 character or less hint for GSAK to upload to my Garmin, under the waypoint's description block.

 

Then try this thread Grievance About Hints and generate more discussion. I'm not sure how 11 pages of useless hints isn't a discussion about useless hints.

Edited June 11, 2008 by Kit Fox

[+climbstuff]

This is better served in the 11 page Useless Hints thread.

 

I read that already. That thread was meant for posting 'actual' useless hints. Here, I hoped to generate discussion about it. Where, I would prefer a 30 character or less hint for GSAK to upload to my Garmin, under the waypoint's description block.

 

Then try this thread Grievance About Hints and generate more discussion. I'm not sure how 11 pages of useless hints isn't a discussion about useless hints.

 

Now that thread is good read!

 

Too bad we couldn't get a guideline written to govern hints...

[+WRASTRO]

This is better served in the 11 page Useless Hints thread.

 

I read that already. That thread was meant for posting 'actual' useless hints. Here, I hoped to generate discussion about it. Where, I would prefer a 30 character or less hint for GSAK to upload to my Garmin, under the waypoint's description block.

 

Then try this thread Grievance About Hints and generate more discussion. I'm not sure how 11 pages of useless hints isn't a discussion about useless hints.

Now that thread is good read!

 

Too bad we couldn't get a guideline written to govern hints...

How about if people just read the text on the cache submission page?

 

Hints/Spoiler Info

Enter any hints or spoiler information below. This information will be encrypted on the site until a geocacher clicks on a link to unencrypt it, or decodes it on the trail. Text within brackets [like this] will not be encrypted. Please keep your hints short, so decoding it on the trail is easier. If you don't have a hint, leave it blank.

 

My personal opinion is that hints are a part of the cache page and a well written hint is a sign of a well written cache page. I really don't want a hint that gives me explicit instructions on how to walk up and find the cache. If you don't like drawing attention to yourself while searching then don't spend 20 or 30 minutes in one area doing things that others might find unusual looking.

 

I read almost every cache page in detail before I hunt it as I find that is an integral part of the experience for me. It also helps minimize the types of complaints you seem to have.

 

GSAK is a great tool but that is all it is. If it doesn't do everything you want then maybe you should think about changing the way you prepare for your caching outings rather than rant about hints that don't tell you precisely where and how to find the cache.

 

I have no problem logging a DNF for a 1/1 cache that I couldn't find. Nor do I have a problem going back and searching again when I have time. I posted a DNF on a 1.5/1 cache on Sunday. Surprise, it was missing!

 

Your example is of searching for caches that you drive by so the global warming and high cost of gas stuff doesn't really seem like it is a valid argument either. Now, a micro way out in the woods with no hint or a lousy one? That makes me unhappy when I can't find the cache. And I don't go back.

[+lrosell]

I agree, a hint should be just that - a hint. Too much info in the hint spoil the experience in my opinion. I try to keep the hints for my caches a bit cryptical and yet informative. But a hint that will in detal tell exactly where the cache is located is something I can't see myself provide.

[+climbstuff]

How about if people just read the text on the cache submission page?

 

Hints/Spoiler Info

Enter any hints or spoiler information below. This information will be encrypted on the site until a geocacher clicks on a link to unencrypt it, or decodes it on the trail. Text within brackets [like this] will not be encrypted. Please keep your hints short, so decoding it on the trail is easier. If you don't have a hint, leave it blank.

 

My personal opinion is that hints are a part of the cache page and a well written hint is a sign of a well written cache page. I really don't want a hint that gives me explicit instructions on how to walk up and find the cache. If you don't like drawing attention to yourself while searching then don't spend 20 or 30 minutes in one area doing things that others might find unusual looking.

 

I read almost every cache page in detail before I hunt it as I find that is an integral part of the experience for me. It also helps minimize the types of complaints you seem to have.

 

GSAK is a great tool but that is all it is. If it doesn't do everything you want then maybe you should think about changing the way you prepare for your caching outings rather than rant about hints that don't tell you precisely where and how to find the cache.

 

I have no problem logging a DNF for a 1/1 cache that I couldn't find. Nor do I have a problem going back and searching again when I have time. I posted a DNF on a 1.5/1 cache on Sunday. Surprise, it was missing!

 

Your example is of searching for caches that you drive by so the global warming and high cost of gas stuff doesn't really seem like it is a valid argument either. Now, a micro way out in the woods with no hint or a lousy one? That makes me unhappy when I can't find the cache. And I don't go back.

 

That 'hint guideline' isn't enforced by most admins. It is only used as a suggestion to the CO.

 

Good input though, I will read the whole cache page, if the cache is 'off the beaten path'.

[+htomc42]

Urban caches are not going to go away and I understand their purpose in the caching community. However, next time you visit your cache’s webpage could you consider adding or changing hints to something more field cacher friendly. Like; “nano knee high”, “hanging in tree eye level”, “lamp post”, “magnetic (nano) up high”, “down low right/left of PO box”, “under green whatever curb/far side”. What is enormously helpful is the four letters NANO.

I also use GSAK as my waypoint manager, and I am also very limited as to the number of characters that I can use in my GPS (Magellan Explorist 400). I find it very helpful to edit the hints; when I import a pocket query or other large number of waypoints into a database, I run a macro that I wrote called HINTFIX - it abbreviates the words in the hint, and appends a character code indicating the cache size.

 

I then step through them in GSAK's waypoint edit mode, and make other changes as necessary, to cut out the fluff and further abbreviate words that my macro doesn't catch. By running that macro first, then stepping through them, I can edit the hints very quickly. If its just useless hints, then I can look at the other cache description fields in the editor, and make the appropriate changes.

 

It takes some time to get the data just right, but with a few tools, it can go much quicker.

[Dinoprophet]

I recently came upon a cache page where the posted coords were not where the cache was. The real coordinates were in the hint. It was listed as a traditional and had no indication that the coords were bogus.

 

But now I think about it, the real coordinates would be a useful hint, not a useless one.

Edited June 12, 2008 by Dinoprophet

[+Rockin Roddy]

People sure do gripe about a lot of things...too much help, not enough help, no one is holding my hand every step of the way...

 

While a hint might be needed for some difficult caches, especially in delicate areas, not leaving a clue or adding a generic clue doesn't mean the CO isn't good at hiding or writing up caches! If you can't find the cache, email the owner and ask for a clue, been there, done that! If you feel the hints aren't helping and the cache needs a hint, ASK the owner to add one or just mention how a better clue might help, owners do read the logs and can make changes!

 

Truly, most caches have plenty of info right in the write-up, maybe reading the cache page fully might be more helpful than complaining people aren't making the hunt easy enough??

 

IMHO, another USELESS bookmark just to point out how you weren't helped with a clue is a waste of time and rude to the owner. Getting upset and putting something like that on a cache page is a slap in the face for any owner and really shows how immature some can be. But then, I feel MOST negative bookmarks are rude as well, why do people think they need to inject their own feelings on someone else's "property"??

[+Rockin Roddy]

Do hints really help in all cases??

 

Example: A cache I recently hid is right under the steps of a long stairway leading to the top of a large hill. My clue is top floor since the cache IS in the last section of the steps. First group out can't find and call me for help (this is during our event at same park cache is hidden)...TWICE! They found it and were on their way. The next group through ALSO can't find it and ask a few times as well. I gave them the spoiler hint...and STILL had to go and point out the container to them...on a regular sized cache!

 

This cache is placed just under the boards of the last landing with some leaves piled over the opening. The front of the steps hide the container from plain sight as do the side boards...ALL who were helped looked a bit amazed that such an easy hide stumped them...and both groups were of several cachers, some of which had many many finds under their belts!

 

Sooo...should I then simply put "last landing under boards of steps, please move the leaves"? When is a hint too much help? And, if people get used to simply decrypting the hints and having caches handed to them, why even bother with placing a tough cache?

 

Not all caches are meant to be found by ALL cachers!

[+Stargazer22]

Rod, I'm not sure how much help that hint would be, given the OP is looking for clues 30 characters or less in order to fit on his GPSr.

 

That would then be "last landing under boards of s".

 

Guess you just can't please everybody!

 

I must be a stick in the mud compared to some folks. I actually read entire cache pages, past logs, hints, and everything. Gosh!

[Dinoprophet]

I think the main complaint here is not hints that aren't a dead giveway, but hints that read "No hint here". That's just a waste of time for the seeker. If you don't want to give a hint, leave it blank. Fakeouts are not cute or "evil" or whatever.

 

On the other hand, I have seen hints that appeared useless on first glance but actually were a hint.

 

As for limits imposed by the tools people use, I'm afraid I have no sympathy there. Talk to the makers of the tools about conforming to what the site allows. Asking people to change their listings because your tool is faulty is backward.

Edited June 12, 2008 by Dinoprophet

[+briansnat]

It is frustrating decrypting the hint only to find "you don't need a hint", or "too easy for a hint". Hey Bozo, if I didn't need a hint I wouldn't be sitting on this log decrypting it.

 

What also gets my pork are the hints that tell me where to park or which trail to take. I'm here at the cache so obviously I already found parking and which trail to take.

 

As far as the types of hints, whether it's a gentle nudge or a "look here...", that's up to the owner.

 

I prefer to give the searchers as much of a dead giveaway as possible. It's my expectation that they won't decrypt the hint until they are totally stumped and I want them to find the thing - and with as little damage to the area as possible. Yeah, I know probably half of all geocachers decrypt the hint before they head out the door, but that's their loss.

Edited June 12, 2008 by briansnat

[+TotemLake]

It is frustrating decrypting the hint only to find "you don't need a hint", or "too easy for a hint". Hey Bozo, if I didn't need a hint I wouldn't be sitting on this log decrypting it.

 

What also gets my pork are the hints that tell me where to park or which trail to take. I'm here at the cache so obviously I already found parking and which trail to take.

 

As far as the types of hints, whether it's a gentle nudge or a "look here...", that's up to the owner.

 

I prefer to give the searchers as much of a dead giveaway as possible. It's my expectation that they won't decrypt the hint until they are totally stumped and I want them to find the thing - and with as little damage to the area as possible. Yeah, I know probably half of all geocachers decrypt the hint before they head out the door, but that's their loss.

Or time gained. The hints are decrypted when GSAK transfers them to my PPC but I don't read them till I have looked for a few minutes. I also don't "waste" time finding out it was a less than useful hint with the pre-decrypted hint already in place. That makes for less frustration.

[+sbell111]

I use plucker. If I want to see the hint, I look at it.

 

Ever since I went paperless, I no longer cared about this issue. "No hint needed" no longer bothers me because it doesn't waste any of my time.

[+HoustonControl]

The philosophy I use on my caches is that hints are for finding the cache, not solving a puzzle, finding parking, taking the right trail, etc. If it's a tough puzzle, I try to put hints in the cache description, ask them to email me, etc, for solving the puzzle . The hint, if any, is just to help them zero in on the correct area, once they near GZ.

 

That said, my feeling on urban micros or high-muggle caches is that the challenge should be in retrieving, signing, and replacing the cache without attracting undue attention, not spending 30 minutes searching. I don't enjoy crawling around on all fours, looking in shrubbery in front of the library while dozens of people gawk at me, and I figure other cachers don't either. I will all but blatantly tell exactly where the cache is hidden in the cache description and hint for these type caches, and let folks enjoy employing their ninja skills for the grab. Just my .02...

[+mcwtlg]

The philosophy I use on my caches is that hints are for finding the cache, not solving a puzzle, finding parking, taking the right trail, etc. If it's a tough puzzle, I try to put hints in the cache description, ask them to email me, etc, for solving the puzzle . The hint, if any, is just to help them zero in on the correct area, once they near GZ.

 

That said, my feeling on urban micros or high-muggle caches is that the challenge should be in retrieving, signing, and replacing the cache without attracting undue attention, not spending 30 minutes searching. I don't enjoy crawling around on all fours, looking in shrubbery in front of the library while dozens of people gawk at me, and I figure other cachers don't either. I will all but blatantly tell exactly where the cache is hidden in the cache description and hint for these type caches, and let folks enjoy employing their ninja skills for the grab. Just my .02...

 

I think I can empathize with you on this. We have one that is hidden outside in/near some greenery in a strip mall out side of one "nicer" restaurant and one fast food joint. The only way to find it is to go at some really odd hour and risk a run in with the local authorities. It is rated a 3.5/1.5 and many good cachers have dnf'd it. Even a reviewer who caches said he was not interested in this NIAH (Needle in a haystack) hide.

[+NOV8TR]

I am a “low timer” with less than 150 finds and only 4 hides on my data sheet (as of this posting).

That being said, it seems to me that a “hint” is intended to “help” a cacher log a find. Nobody likes to log a DNF. Even if there is a good chance that a hide has been muggled, I’m sure most of us carefully consider logging a DNF, and possibly having to admit to our own failure (even if that failure is only self imposed). The whole idea of geocaching (as I understand it) is to enjoy success doing something that is somewhat “covert” in principal, while participating in a community that has a common goal (hiding stuff for each other, and having it found). Encrypting a hint “raises the bar” for the more experienced cacher because they don’t have to read the hint if they don’t want to (making the find harder to log). But in the end, the idea is to find what someone else wants you to find! Those CO’s who have misleading cache names, or useless (or even worse “misleading”) hints would appear to be distorting the whole point of the game. If you want your hide to be hard to find, spend some more time on the camo, or reduce the container size. If you want to weed out the “less worthy”, place your hide in difficult or remote terrain. Don’t intentionally mislead (or waste the time of) the very person that you placed the hide for in the first place! If you are going to post a hint, make it useful. Otherwise, let your hide stand on it’s own by not posting a hint at all.

My 2¢

[andylphoto]

It is frustrating decrypting the hint only to find "you don't need a hint", or "too easy for a hint". Hey Bozo, if I didn't need a hint I wouldn't be sitting on this log decrypting it.

 

 

I don't have a cache page, but I recently looked at one and decrypted the long hint on the computer. The hint was something along the lines of:

 

youregoingtobereallymadifyoudecryptedthisbyhand

 

There's what I call useless.

[+TotemLake]

I am a “low timer” with less than 150 finds and only 4 hides on my data sheet (as of this posting).

That being said, it seems to me that a “hint” is intended to “help” a cacher log a find. Nobody likes to log a DNF. Even if there is a good chance that a hide has been muggled, I’m sure most of us carefully consider logging a DNF, and possibly having to admit to our own failure (even if that failure is only self imposed). The whole idea of geocaching (as I understand it) is to enjoy success doing something that is somewhat “covert” in principal, while participating in a community that has a common goal (hiding stuff for each other, and having it found). Encrypting a hint “raises the bar” for the more experienced cacher because they don’t have to read the hint if they don’t want to (making the find harder to log). But in the end, the idea is to find what someone else wants you to find! Those CO’s who have misleading cache names, or useless (or even worse “misleading”) hints would appear to be distorting the whole point of the game. If you want your hide to be hard to find, spend some more time on the camo, or reduce the container size. If you want to weed out the “less worthy”, place your hide in difficult or remote terrain. Don’t intentionally mislead (or waste the time of) the very person that you placed the hide for in the first place! If you are going to post a hint, make it useful. Otherwise, let your hide stand on it’s own by not posting a hint at all.

My 2¢

Help me understand this. Are most folks that hate to log a DNF forgetting the first reason for getting out there is to have fun? Or is that "fun" really tied to the find?

 

A DNF is simply Did Not Find (for any reason). Because there is no entitlement to finding the cache; any stigma to a DNF is self-inflicted. It merely shows you visited, attempted or otherwise had the cache as a target and couldn't make it.

 

Examples:

link

link

link

link One of my favorite memories.

 

The point is a DNF is anything you make it to be. I turn them into part of my quest (most of the time). Each one has me going "Oh yah, I remember that day!"

 

That being the case, hints, as I noted in the third link can be helpful or not, but that shouldn't detract you from having a good time and enjoying the hunt. In that third one, it was a cool trail off of a neat stone bridge. Which reminds me, I need to post pictures to that cache.

Edited June 13, 2008 by TotemLake

[+paleolith]

I also use GSAK as my waypoint manager, and I am also very limited as to the number of characters that I can use in my GPS (Magellan Explorist 400).

I haven't yet seen a GPSr that supports geocaching. Maybe one exists, I haven't seen very many.

 

Oh yeah, they all say they support geocaching, because they have a couple of geocache icons and a "show next cache" after you click find. (Speaking of the geocaching "support" on my Garmin eTrex Vista HCx.) Lame is a nice word for this kind of support. Given that people do paperless caching on old $30 Palm Pilots, there's not the slightest excuse for the GPSr manufacturers not to include similar capabilities. Well, yeah, there's an excuse -- since no one's selling such capabilities, we have to buy the crap they offer, don't have a choice. Whoever makes a handheld that supports both GPS and geocaching is likely to grab a good bit of the market.

 

Speaking of which ... does anyone know what GPS chip the new iPhone uses? Not that I'm thinking about buying one, though if I were looking for a GPSr and could get the iPhone for $200 without a contract and it had a good chip and had good software available, it might well be worth looking at. Just the fact that software can be added ... heck, if Garmin would allow loading other software to their units, that would solve these problems.

 

As for the hint ... in a way, you might think in terms of one difficulty for finding without the hint and another for finding with the hint. But you only have one. So perhaps think in terms of writing a hint which decreases the difficulty by 1.0, or 1.5, or 2.0? Certainly would not work consistently, but might be a starting point for thinking about it. My hides are mostly easy enough to find that I'm not very concerned about it, and the one which is harder, I don't want to provide a hint.

 

Edward

[+Morning Dew]

If everysingle hider took briansnat view on hints I think geocaching would be just about perfect for me. I wouldn't look at the hint until I needed it and then it would be pretty darned obvious. Of course, there could be exceptions for truly tricky hides.

 

But one thing I've learned is that hiding is an art and this includes using that hint field in a helpful manner.

 

I'm getting a bit better but I'm horrible at finding these things and I definately tend towards disturbing an area the longer and hard I have to look. Consulting a detailed hint would make caching a lot more pleasurable for me. However, it's simply just not that way.

 

Examples.

 

Hint: Across the river.

 

The cache was 225' on the other side of the river which was crossed using a bridge that was 50' from the parking lot. It really made me wonder if it the hider had ever used a GPS before. When I looked at the hint I was 10 minutes into my search at GZ. Thanks!

 

Hint: Look up!

 

It was hidden at the base of a tree. (This one could have been moved by another cacher though).

 

Hint: Park at N XX XX.XXX W XXX XX.XXX

 

Again, I looked at the hint after I had searched for a bit.

 

Hint: This is a multi-cache.

 

Found it immediately, after that hint. Not!

 

NOTE to previous poster.

 

There are GPSr that exist that support paperless caching. My PN-20 comes pretty darned close (800 character limit), I find almost all caches work for this. There are however expections but it's close enough. It does have to be coupled with GSAK but it's pretty much seamless once you have it set up. I think the Colorado model will do paperless as well.

[4wheelin_fool]

V ungr qrpevcgvat uvagf. V nyjnlf "purng" naq ernq gurz nurnq bs gvzr, be qbag hfr gurz ng nyy.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

... Speaking of which ... does anyone know what GPS chip the new iPhone uses? Not that I'm thinking about buying one, though if I were looking for a GPSr and could get the iPhone for $200 without a contract and it had a good chip and had good software available, it might well be worth looking at. Just the fact that software can be added ... heck, if Garmin would allow loading other software to their units, that would solve these problems.

Here's a hint, dunno if it is worthless or not...

 

From the smittyware FAQ re CacheMate:

Will there be an (insert platform name) version of CacheMate? (back to top)

 

iPhone - Not very likely. The reason for this is the fact that one of the features thats make CacheMate stand out (open import/export capabilities through plugins) isn't possible with the restrictions that Apple is placing on third-party applications (no plugins, no working with other software on the phone, and no writing data that can be read by other software). It may be possible to implement the rest of CacheMate's functionality, but the chances that that will happen are... again... not very likely.

 

Based on that I'd shy away from the iPhone for geocaching.