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Extra-credits for hiders


RuideAlmeida

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Maybe just another silly idea of mine (maybe not).

What do you feel about geocachers with thousands of finds and none or few caches hide?

What do you think about a reward system for cache quality, voted by finders?

 

I think such a system could increase cache quality... and also compelling those other geocachers to give us the pleasure to find caches of their own. :(

 

I feel sad when I see a thousand-finds-geocacher that dont care about hide any cache at all... as if it wasnt the hiders that keep this game rolling.

 

What do you all think about it?

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It honestly does not bother me. I have no idea what is going on in their lives that may prohibit them from feeling like they can hide a cache and responsibly take care of it. There are plenty of us out there that hide caches that easily "make up for" some not being able to hide caches.

 

Edit:

Some Prefer Hiding...

Some Prefer Finding...

Some Prefer Both...

 

Do what you are comfortable with...but most of all have fun!!!

Edited by ArcherDragoon
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For the most part I think hiders are rewarded by the logs they receive.

Good caches tend to get nice logs. "Just for the smiley" caches tend to get TNLNSL

 

I would not want to encourage anyone to hide a cache who wasn't otherwise moved to do so.

 

 

I would like some kind of rating system on this site, but not for the purposes you envision.

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I think some people like to find caches and some like to hide caches. I have seen a few folks that have 100 or so finds and hundreds of hides. I personally have near 2K finds and about 36 hides. When I find a good spot and am able to create a quality cache that fits that spot I hide one. It doesn't make me any less apprieciative for the hiders of the caches that I have found. Quality over quantity is my line of thought.

 

I have long been a proponent of a quality rating on caches along with difficulty and terrain.

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For the most part I think hiders are rewarded by the logs they receive.

 

Agree 100%

 

I would like some kind of rating system on this site, but not for the purposes you envision.

 

Some stupid portuguese propositions?... Please accept my apologies.

 

__________________

 

 

How many times do you think when finding a cache "What a crap, somebody would have warned me!!"?

Edited by ruidealmeida
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How many times do you think when finding a cache "What a crap, somebody would have warned me!!"?

I never think things to myself that make absolutely no sense, so my answer would be zero times.

 

However, if I'm finding a cache that I don't like, I'm not sure who could have warned me that I wouldn't like it. Should I listen to the people that don't like micros, the people that don't like long hikes, the people that don't like difficult to find caches, the people that don't like caches without a nice view, the people that don't like easy finds, etc.

 

Instead, I usually am just happy to have had a cache to find anyway and get on with my day.

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From a brand new cacher... I have one great find to my name... :( I don't plan on going for numbers... more into quality of location, not needing quality swag to go with it.

 

I'm personally interested in well thought out hides, and not really into the run of mill nano-magnet cache. I read some of the logs, and make my list from the ones that sound as if they might be interesting, either a fun journey or a worthwhile destination. When I get around to making a cache of my own, it will be because it has a reason to be there, not because it just CAN be there. I plan on placing a cache in a place so that it will bring someone to a neat place where they would otherwise never go, and those are the types I want to search for too.

 

As for a reward for quality, that isn't what got me interested in the first place.

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(snip)

I have long been a proponent of a quality rating on caches along with difficulty and terrain.

 

It would be nice to have a rating system on the caches but it will never happen. There are just too many variables. Too many likes, dislikes personal animosity etc.

 

There are many many ways to give back to caching:
  • Always trading up or even
  • holding events
  • speaking at events
  • teaching classes
  • CITO activites
  • writing nice descriptive logs
  • participating in local groups
  • participating in the forums
  • hiding caches
  • fixing other people caches when they need it
  • etc

 

Excellent list. I for one like the idea of writing nice logs. We have a local cacher here in WNY (he is active on these forums) and he writes the best logs I have seen. He is my model - I am trying to copy him in this aspect. Trading up needs to be improved around here at least - that I have seen for sure with just my 40 plus finds.

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For the most part I think hiders are rewarded by the logs they receive.

Good caches tend to get nice logs. "Just for the smiley" caches tend to get TNLNSL

I would not want to encourage anyone to hide a cache who wasn't otherwise moved to do so.

I would like some kind of rating system on this site, but not for the purposes you envision.

I agree with this reply 100%. The points don't really matter, the experience and journey do.

 

How many times do you think when finding a cache "What a crap, somebody would have warned me!!"?
I am rarely surprised with the quality of the location and hide when I have properly prepared for my caching day, and am glad we have such a variety of hiders within a short drive of home so I can satisfy whichever itch I might have that day. The only occasional disappointment is finding a cache that isn't properly maintained.
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My opinion is pretty much to let everybody do what they are most comfortable with. The cachers in my local area would not want me to place a lot of caches just because of the fact that I'd be saturating the area with a bunch of caches that would only warrant a 1 star difficulty rating. I'm a fairly intelligent person, but I'm not very creative so therefore I don't have any great desire to hide lots of caches. So far I've got one cache hide and that would qualify as a no brainer cache and I placed that almost exclusively for kids to enjoy even though I know most adults would be bored silly with finding it. Since I know I won't be contributing lots of great cache hides to the game my plan is to try and keep my no brainer type of cache (it's a large watertight container with at least the storage capacity of an ammo box) stocked with some fairly decent and bought brand new at the store swag so that kids will have a little variety instead of only seeing dirty and broken McToys in it. Weather permitting I plan on visiting monthly and restocking it with more fairly decent and new from the store swag. I know it's not a major contribution like a lot of the prolific cache hiders in the area, but all I can do is try and find some meaningful way to contribute to the caching community in small ways like that. Yeah, the cache logs from the adults are pretty short (which I understand totally) since it's pretty boring to them, but I can see from their comments about their kids reactions that I have at least made a significant contribution to at least one small demographic of the geocaching community. I do the best I can with my God given talents (or lack thereof) and hopefully it will be appreciated. The other way I've tried to contribute to the game was by becoming a paying member. It's not much, but it's another small step towards trying to do what I can. I may not be a prolific cache hider, but I am trying to contribute in my own way and if everybody does that hopefully it will all balance out to be great hobby for everybody! :(

Edited by Michigan Cacheman
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I think your original post really encompasses two entirely different ideas. And in trying to make them into one related post, you're not quite getting the responses you wanted or expected:

 

"What do you feel about geocachers with thousands of finds and none or few caches hide?...compelling those other geocachers to give us the pleasure to find caches of their own"

 

Idea 1) compelling people to hide. No, I don't like this at all.

 

"What do you think about a reward system for cache quality, voted by finders?"

 

Idea 2) cache ratings - yes, I'd like to see some kind of ratings. There have been an enormous number of threads about this. I think the two most workable ideas I've seen are:

 

Lep's notion of a Favorites Bookmarked list with some special coding (as the ignore list has) that allows it to be selected for on Pocket Queries. So you could as for caches that are on a Favorites list (or 2 Favorites lists).

 

Coyote Red's notion of a log word count. Caches with longer logs tend to be better caches. I believe he has written a macro to do this job. This website could do it. Tell you if log length is average or above average.

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I would have to say that an 850 word found log is a pretty good reward. It's not something that anyone that hasn't placed a cache will ever get.

 

I would also not like to see anyone who doesn't want to place and maintain caches placing caches. Most cachers with 1000+ finds probably give back to the geocaching community in other ways, such as buying and releasing geocoins for everyone to find. Even if they don't give back at all, who cares? They aren't taking anything either...

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I've tried suggesting before some kind've system to acknowledge those who provide the gamepieces that are the very backbone of this game - even basing it on an appreciation comparable to the pride the 'finders' have in their find counts, & give 'the other side' some recognition. Got pretty much slapped down & spit on. Go figger.

 

That said, we have a retired couple in this area that are among the state leaders in finds.....up there in the thousands. They came thru here, hit several of mine....I got to noticing something about their logs, & decided to look up some of their caches & return the favor. Lo & behold, two separate accounts, & not a single cache between 'em. Go figger.

 

Their logs, which I wanted to give 'em a li'l taste of & "see how they liked it"? I spent the better part of an hour looking thru 'em....every one I saw - regardless of ratings, from P&G's & LPC's, to several that nearly every other finder ranted & raved about - EVERY one: "TFTC".

 

Go figger.

~*

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There should be no requirement that anyone ever hide a cache. As far as encouraging more hides, that is probably best done on a local case-by-case basis. I imagine that in Portugal there are fewer geocachers so one quickly finds most of the caches in a area and has to travel farther (maybe even to Spain) to find more caches. Where I live there are more caches being placed than I will ever find. In fact here, I'd love to see some way to discourage some people from placing caches. Everytime I see a new hider leaving 35mm film caches or even just a plastic bag stuffed under lightpole skirt I wish there were a way to stop these people from hiding this till they have found at least 20 or 30 similar hides. But then every once and a while, I find a newbie who hides a cache on some trail I never was on or has cleverly camouflaged a small container on a street sign or phone booth that takes me a while to find.

 

There should be no requirement to hide a better cache. Because "better" is subjective. Even the lightpole hide serves it purpose. It, and other classic styles, that are less prone to muggling are often the mainstay of urban caching. So long as I get one or two original hides or I am taken to some areas that have "redeeming value" of a nice view or something of cultural interest, I don't mind find 30 other caches in parking lots or on news racks. Some people hate puzzles, or long hikes, or micros that are hide to find, others like these types of caches. People should be encouraged, if they choose to hide at all, to hide caches they are comfortable hiding and that they will enjoy or believe that others will enjoy.

 

That said, there could be ways to help people find those caches that are really outstanding. Jeremy has suggested that he may add a way to reward hiders for exceptional caches. In addition, there has been much discussion of using the bookmark list premium feature to identify caches that appear on several cachers' lists of favorite caches. Some will no doubt see these kinds of rewards as competition and may alter their caches in hopes of getting a reward. There will be groups of friends that will simply vote for each other's caches just to get rewards. However, I believe that for the most part a rewards system could be established that would benefit the people who want to look for "recommended" caches while still letting people hide caches they like.

 

That said, we have a retired couple in this area that are among the state leaders in finds.....up there in the thousands. They came thru here, hit several of mine....I got to noticing something about their logs, & decided to look up some of their caches & return the favor. Lo & behold, two separate accounts, & not a single cache between 'em. Go figger.

 

Their logs, which I wanted to give 'em a li'l taste of & "see how they liked it"? I spent the better part of an hour looking thru 'em....every one I saw - regardless of ratings, from P&G's & LPC's, to several that nearly every other finder ranted & raved about - EVERY one: "TFTC".

 

Go figger.

~*

Some retired people are RVers or have a vacation home and spend part of the year in different locations. They may feel that they couldn't maintain a cache since they will be gone for a substantial amount of time. In any case there shouldn't be a requirement for anyone to hide a cache. Some people may just not be interested in hiding or maintaining a hide.

 

Similarly they should be no requirement to right a long detailed log just because the cache is exceptional. It's great as a cache owner to see these log and as stated elsewhere, this is often a reward in itself. But some people are not creative writers. They simply want to state they found your cache and thank you for hiding it. It seems gratuitous to require they spell out something. You know what TFTC means. Certainly when you see a TFTC from someone who normally writes a multi-paragraph log you'd know that they didn't think much of your cache, but a TFTC from someone who always logs this just means they don't feel confident, or for some other reason are uncomfortable, about writing a long log. I'm proud of the fact that the average log on my hides is 60 words. But a couple of weeks ago I went on a hike with some friends. One of them came with his father who also geocaches. We found three of my caches along with several others on that hike. My friend's father logged all the caches TFTC. I know he enjoyed the caches and the hike, but he seemed the quiet type and my guess is that instead worrying about insulting someone because he got something in the log wrong or because he only wrote 10 word for one cache and 15 for someone else's, he stuck to his standard log.

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There are many many ways to give back to caching:

  • Always trading up or even
  • holding events
  • speaking at events
  • teaching classes
  • CITO activites
  • writing nice descriptive logs
  • participating in local groups
  • participating in the forums
  • hiding caches
  • fixing other people caches when they need it
  • etc

 

I agree witht this 100%. Not everyone is a hider, or good at it. I've hidden a couple, and have a few more in the works, but I only want to do hides that have some interest to them. While I think a good nano hide has its place, I don't want to contribute to the zillions of LPCs and stop sign micro seeds that are already out there, and I think assigning extra credit to hiders is just going to encourage more "low quality, no interesting location, no compelling cache page, nothing to trade at the site" kind of hides.

 

Caching is already way, way, way too much of a numbers game. I don't know that I can stand any more meaningless "stats". The only significance my stats have is for ME, and I already know what caches I've hidden and what the quality is.

 

I think the list above is a good one for people who don't enjoy hiding, or have the time to properly maintain the ones they do hide.

 

BlueDamsel

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Each cache you log requires you to to go to the pull down menu beside type of log, which has the various choices (Found it, Didn't find it, Write note).

How hard would it be to have another pull down menu below that with a selection of 1 through 5 stars? It could just be a generic rating, some would rate by location, some would rate by creativity, some would rate by lameness, but in the end, I'm sure most good caches would garner a good rating and most poor caches would garner a poor rating.

It could be optional, meaning you would not have to rate the cache to log the find, and in fairness, each cache could require a minimum of, say, 10 ratings before the average rating was posted on the cache listing page.

This system would surely encourage most hiders to put a little thought into hides, and a little more effort into maintenance. Others hiders may care less one way or the other, so the rating stars wouldn't affect their style of hides.

Just a thought from someone who usually only lurks. Feel free to rip me a new one now!

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I think your original post really encompasses two entirely different ideas. And in trying to make them into one related post, you're not quite getting the responses you wanted or expected

 

You got that right... but one is related to the other.

First, implementation of a rating system... second an increasing quality demanding.

Edited by ruidealmeida
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I imagine that in Portugal there are fewer geocachers so one quickly finds most of the caches in a area and has to travel farther (maybe even to Spain) to find more caches.

 

In fact is the opposite, nobody has ever found every local caches (around 4000)... and crossing the border would only show an almost desertic geocaching territory (in a territory five times bigger, they have less caches).

 

But what I want is quality, not quantity... therefore the rating system.

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Each cache you log requires you to to go to the pull down menu beside type of log, which has the various choices (Found it, Didn't find it, Write note).

How hard would it be to have another pull down menu below that with a selection of 1 through 5 stars? It could just be a generic rating, some would rate by location, some would rate by creativity, some would rate by lameness, but in the end, I'm sure most good caches would garner a good rating and most poor caches would garner a poor rating.

It could be optional, meaning you would not have to rate the cache to log the find, and in fairness, each cache could require a minimum of, say, 10 ratings before the average rating was posted on the cache listing page.

This system would surely encourage most hiders to put a little thought into hides, and a little more effort into maintenance. Others hiders may care less one way or the other, so the rating stars wouldn't affect their style of hides.

Just a thought from someone who usually only lurks. Feel free to rip me a new one now!

 

I'm not sure this type of rating is a bad idea... since it would give you some idea what sort of cache you'll be looking for. I also like the option of not having to rate if you don't want to. I'm mostly against giving hiders some sort of "extra credit" or extra something-or-other which would have no result other than to encourage quantity over quality.

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Each cache you log requires you to to go to the pull down menu beside type of log, which has the various choices (Found it, Didn't find it, Write note).

How hard would it be to have another pull down menu below that with a selection of 1 through 5 stars? It could just be a generic rating, some would rate by location, some would rate by creativity, some would rate by lameness, but in the end, I'm sure most good caches would garner a good rating and most poor caches would garner a poor rating.

For ratings to be really useful, I think they'd need to emphasize the ratings given by those with preferences similar to mine. That is, I care more about the ratings of those who have rated other caches the same as I have. If I like puzzles, blinkers on public sculptures, and 4-star camouflage, then I might not be interested in the ratings given by a mom who likes regular caches with "treasure" for her kids, or a 4x4 enthusiast who likes 5-star terrain, or a wheelchair user who can access only 1-star terrain, or...
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If you didn't show the rating on the cache page, what good would the rating be?

I could care less if CrazyCacherDude has an overall rating of 3.7, I would just like to know as I'm reading cache pages how other finders rated this cache. I would like to know what the last 10 loggers of this cache rated it, but could care less if CrazyCacherDude has only a rating of 1.3! Maybe this latest cache is his best effort yet. THAT I would like to know. I also would like to know if it's his worst cache yet.

I also would like to hope that there is not an actual cacher with the user name CrazyCacherDude. If there is, I apologize.

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I for one like the idea of writing nice logs. We have a local cacher here in WNY (he is active on these forums) and he writes the best logs I have seen. He is my model - I am trying to copy him in this aspect.

 

I know it ain't me. I'm barely literate. :(

 

Honesty at its best - lol!

 

I think you spelled honestee wrong.

 

let us investigate:

 

onelook.com:

 

Sorry, no dictionaries indexed in the selected category contain the word honestee.

 

Perhaps you meant: honesty

(found in 24 dictionaries)

 

You were correct in your first post - hahaha

Edited by Frank Broughton
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Maybe just another silly idea of mine (maybe not).

What do you feel about geocachers with thousands of finds and none or few caches hide?

 

 

don't care. fine with me.

 

What do you think about a reward system for cache quality, voted by finders?

 

 

hate the idea. would work to subvert a rating system if there was one in place.

 

 

and also compelling those other geocachers to give us the pleasure to find caches of their own.

 

not in favor of compelling anyone to do anything.

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I am fortunate to live in a very cache rich area. I have to be very careful about finding and choosing hide locations that are not lame. So I only have a few hides, but they are generally well received. To me that is the objective when hiding a cache. Will finders like and appreciate it or will I get a bunch of TFTC logs.

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I don't like the idea of encouraging hides any more than what is now taking place.

 

I find plenty of magnetic nanos with little thought put in the cache.

 

I only have 5 active caches and I do get compliments on them all. They are close to my house but there are no normal magnetic nanos. The only magnetic micro I own is a puzzle that tells a story of the place you are going to visit. Three of my other caches are magnetic nanos but they are disguised so that they are fun caches to find.

 

I love to come up with camo that is fun for people when they find the cache. The hides are not particularly difficult but they are different and I put time into making them.

 

I love to read the logs on my caches. I sometimes pull them up and read them all. I know kinda goofy. BlueDamsel always writes good logs. I enjoy reading them when I get the chance, even when I am getting teased cause I cant find the 1X1. :D

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I don't like the idea of encouraging hides any more than what is now taking place.

 

I find plenty of magnetic nanos with little thought put in the cache.

 

I only have 5 active caches and I do get compliments on them all. They are close to my house but there are no normal magnetic nanos. The only magnetic micro I own is a puzzle that tells a story of the place you are going to visit. Three of my other caches are magnetic nanos but they are disguised so that they are fun caches to find.

 

I love to come up with camo that is fun for people when they find the cache. The hides are not particularly difficult but they are different and I put time into making them.

 

I love to read the logs on my caches. I sometimes pull them up and read them all. I know kinda goofy. BlueDamsel always writes good logs. I enjoy reading them when I get the chance, even when I am getting teased cause I cant find the 1X1. :D

 

I bet if you'd looked about 2 minutes more, you'd have found that 1x1 :blink:

Edited by BlueDamsel
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Like others have noted, I don't think it's a good idea to compel anyone to hide a cache.

If they can't properly maintain one, I sure hope they don't place one.

 

In theory, a ratings system would be nice. It could be very useful to me personally since I care much more about quality than quantity. However, in actual practice, I think you would find there are some people who would do everything in their power to subvert such a system. Placing restrictions and double checks on who is rating who because of what would cause more red tape than the gub'ment.

Even though I would use it, I think we're probably better off without it.

 

I actually read every cache page (yes, the whole page!) before I go search for a cache. Doing this and having a little experience on hides from different folks in my area gives me a pretty good idea of which ones I'll enjoy most. If I go for a few that don't please me as much, oh well, that's life. There's always another, cooler cache around the corner! :D

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I think with yesterdays updates there is hope for a rating system yet. I'd like to see something like the five stars that have popped up in our profiles where we rate our GPSr make and model. Seems GS has the system in place now.

 

A Rating system is very subjective. A couple of my thoughts are that a Cache rated 5 Stars today may be a 2 Star tomorrow because some Lazy Cacher did not trade even or up, and the quality of the hide can be trashed by it not being put back right. Jusy a couple of my thoughts why I don't promote a Rating system.

 

BrrrMo

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Sort of like Amazon does?

"Users who rated this cache like you did also enjoyed these caches."

No need to show ratings numbers on the cache page. No advantage to lying when you rate a cache. This is the system I'd prefer.

 

Exactly! I haven't been following these "cache ratings" threads in a while, I wonder if an Amazon type system is getting the most support? It has my vote.

 

There's yet another "lame micro" thread going on (which is surprisingly tame and ignored). The OP is basically of the "any cache is a good cache" mindset. As are many people. The cache hounds who run out and find everything listed on the website, are never even going to rate a Wally World LPC as anything less than average.

 

As a matter of fact, as an ignorer of hundreds of local parking lot/street corner caches, I myself pretty much never look for anything I'd consider worse than average. And of course most of my own cache hides are just average as well. :D

Edited by TheWhiteUrkel
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I think with yesterdays updates there is hope for a rating system yet. I'd like to see something like the five stars that have popped up in our profiles where we rate our GPSr make and model. Seems GS has the system in place now.

 

A Rating system is very subjective. A couple of my thoughts are that a Cache rated 5 Stars today may be a 2 Star tomorrow because some Lazy Cacher did not trade even or up, and the quality of the hide can be trashed by it not being put back right. Jusy a couple of my thoughts why I don't promote a Rating system.

 

BrrrMo

 

There have been a couple of threads where cachers are looking for ways to "bulk log" their finds. And many cachers enter innocuous comments like "Nice hide. TFTC".

 

I would be really concerned that people like that would just click on the "1" or whatever.

 

Not to mention someone decides they don't like you and give you a poor rating on a good cache.

 

Lots of potholes to hit with a rating system.

 

I doubt you will see it occur.

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