Tips for a night cache

[+GPS Joe]

I apologize if this has been discussed before but my eyes are getting tired from searching for the past 30 minutes. If you can direct me to a previous topic that would be great.

 

I want to place a microcache at a local drive-in. I do the website and cut the grass here and I have discussed this with the manager who is a good friend. He is all for getting more business.

 

There is a light pole in the back of the drive-in with a knot hole that would be perfect for a small cache with logbook. Obviously I do not want to draw a lot of muggle attention which is what will probably happen if people go searching with a flashlight. So I would like to somehow mark the cache with a phosphorous paint so it show up with a uv light or blacklight. The cache will only be available at night (after sunset) and you would have to purchase a ticket to enter. Obviously I would put those in the description.

 

So I am looking for any help with this. Any online GC sponsor have paint like this? I like to support the sponsors whenever I can

 

Thanks to all who reply,

 

Joe

[Alan White]

He is all for getting more business...you would have to purchase a ticket to enter

That will likely kill the idea anyway. See http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx#commercial

[+StarBrand]

Sounds a bit too commercial to me.

 

What exactly would prevent somebody from searching for it during the day? How would you list the coordinates?

[+t4e]

He is all for getting more business...you would have to purchase a ticket to enter

That will likely kill the idea anyway. See http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx#commercial

 

i don't see how that guideline will affect his cache

 

there's plenty of caches placed in Provincial Parks where you have to pay admission, which is different than what the guideline states "and/or purchase a product or service"

 

than again, why not just place it outside the business perimeter?

Edited February 8, 2010 by t4e

[+BigFurryMonster]

What is so special to cachers about this location, that they'd want to purchase a ticket to log (and enjoy) it?

[Alan White]

i don't see how that guideline will affect his cache

You don't?

 

The geocache is presumed to be commercial if the finder is required to go inside a business, interact with employees, and/or purchase a product or service

However, your implication that it's not a given is right, and it will be up to the reviewer. That's why it's a guideline.

[+briansnat]

He is all for getting more business...you would have to purchase a ticket to enter

That will likely kill the idea anyway. See http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx#commercial

 

i don't see how that guideline will affect his cache

 

there's plenty of caches placed in Provincial Parks where you have to pay admission, which is different than what the guideline states "and/or purchase a product or service"

 

than again, why not just place it outside the business perimeter?

 

Government run parks and non profits that charge admission are exempt from the commercial guideline.

 

The OP admitted "...I have discussed this with the manager who is a good friend. He is all for getting more business.

 

The point of geocaches should not be to drum up business.

[+t4e]

 

 

The point of geocaches should not be to drum up business.

 

i totally agree with that, if the CO will directly advertise the business on the cache description

 

what i'm getting at is that he is FREE and within guidelines to put in the cache description that accessing the cache will require purchasing a ticket, that in no way advertises the business nor obligates anyone to go for it....the choice is on the members

 

in my experience the reviewers are free to interpret and apply the rules, i've seen many discrepancies between towns, regions, countries etc...

 

one of my caches was viewed as some kind of "solicitation" to a religious group, all i had was a wiki link, even after extensive exchange of messages explaining that the whole thing is a parody, a joke i still had to remove the wiki link lol....and the said religious "solicitation" was for The Flying Spaghetti Monster

[+bittsen]

If the cache were approved that required an admission fee, it would go on my ignore list.

 

Geocaching is a hobby for all walks of life, including poor people. Charging to get a cache smiley is not something I would support, in any way shape or form.

[+Castle Mischief]

I have this nightmare image in my head of people shinning flashlights all around behind the screen in the bushes while I'm trying to watch my movie. I can't imagine that this would survive long in the wild.

[+Castle Mischief]

If the cache were approved that required an admission fee, it would go on my ignore list.

 

Geocaching is a hobby for all walks of life, including poor people. Charging to get a cache smiley is not something I would support, in any way shape or form.

 

If you cache, you're going to have to spend money somewhere. I'd rather give up a few bucks to enter a really nice, well maintained park system than hunt in a trash-strewn lot for free.

 

You're well within your rights to not search for any cache that you don't want to, but there's nothing about paying to enter a park to cache that makes it wrong or not in the spirit of caching.*

 

 

 

*Whatever the snoogans that is.

[+bittsen]

If the cache were approved that required an admission fee, it would go on my ignore list.

 

Geocaching is a hobby for all walks of life, including poor people. Charging to get a cache smiley is not something I would support, in any way shape or form.

 

If you cache, you're going to have to spend money somewhere. I'd rather give up a few bucks to enter a really nice, well maintained park system than hunt in a trash-strewn lot for free.

 

You're well within your rights to not search for any cache that you don't want to, but there's nothing about paying to enter a park to cache that makes it wrong or not in the spirit of caching.*

 

I will NOT pay money to get into a park or anywhere else to cache. That does not mean I won't pay money to get into a park, or someplace else and cache.

 

If I pay to get into the park because I want to be in the park and there are caches there, fine.

[+t4e]

I have this nightmare image in my head of people shinning flashlights all around behind the screen in the bushes while I'm trying to watch my movie. I can't imagine that this would survive long in the wild.

 

and as you would have already found this you could yell "its in the pole, go get it and turn off the dadgum flashlight"

 

[+GPS Joe]

Hey look, it's not like it will be a big surprise when they get there and they find out they will have to buy a ticket to get in. It will clearly be written in the description of the cache. But you are not buying a ticket to get to the cache; you are buying a ticket to see 2 movies. If you look at the cache description you may say "hey, we haven't been to a drive-in in a while. Let's see what's playing there". Or if you don't like what's playing don't come. It really isn't that complicated.

 

BTW, the spot where the cache would go is on the backrow, no where near the screen. And like I said, I don't want people to bring flashlights. The drive-in is roped off during the day.

[+t4e]

Hey look, it's not like it will be a big surprise when they get there and they find out they will have to buy a ticket to get in. It will clearly be written in the description of the cache. But you are not buying a ticket to get to the cache; you are buying a ticket to see 2 movies. If you look at the cache description you may say "hey, we haven't been to a drive-in in a while. Let's see what's playing there". Or if you don't like what's playing don't come. It really isn't that complicated.

 

BTW, the spot where the cache would go is on the backrow, no where near the screen. And like I said, I don't want people to bring flashlights. The drive-in is roped off during the day.

 

what everyone is saying here is just an opinion, at the end of the day the only way to find out if it will be published is to set it up and wait for the reviewer's decision

 

as for your original question, can try some "glow in the dark" artifact or some solar mini light

[+bittsen]

Hey look, it's not like it will be a big surprise when they get there and they find out they will have to buy a ticket to get in. It will clearly be written in the description of the cache. But you are not buying a ticket to get to the cache; you are buying a ticket to see 2 movies. If you look at the cache description you may say "hey, we haven't been to a drive-in in a while. Let's see what's playing there". Or if you don't like what's playing don't come. It really isn't that complicated.

 

BTW, the spot where the cache would go is on the backrow, no where near the screen. And like I said, I don't want people to bring flashlights. The drive-in is roped off during the day.

 

OK, let's get to the crux of this.

 

You asked, and my answer is that I don't think it's a good idea. I think it's a commercial cache. I would never look for it. I would never recommend it. I don't think it has any value to the caching community other than to generate revenue for the drive-in. I think people would use regular flashlights if they were willing to pay money for the privilege of finding that ONE cache.

 

As far as invisible fluorescent paint, check out http://www.riskreactor.com

They have the largest selection of fluorescent/Glow in the dark paints and dyes that I know of.

[+GPS Joe]

Wow, so bitter. You act like this cache is a bottle of water in the Sahara desert. If you do not want to pay $6.00 to enter and see a couple shows then don't. That is absolutely fine with me. But if you are in the neighborhood and want to take in a show and check out a cache then come on down.

 

This is a very small town. Our theater and drive-in barley break even every year. This cache will NOT bring in thousands of dollars and make us rich men. I cut the grass for free, I do the website for free and I am always looking for ways to bring in business for them. I thought maybe this would be a way to bring in a dozen or so more people a season. That's it.

 

But you are right, it probably will not get past the reviewer.

 

Thanks to the people who actually helped me with my question.

[+simpjkee]

I think people would search with a flashlight before they'd search with a uv or black light even if it was in the descriptin and had blacklight paint on it.

[+bittsen]

Wow, so bitter. You act like this cache is a bottle of water in the Sahara desert. If you do not want to pay $6.00 to enter and see a couple shows then don't. That is absolutely fine with me. But if you are in the neighborhood and want to take in a show and check out a cache then come on down.

 

This is a very small town. Our theater and drive-in barley break even every year. This cache will NOT bring in thousands of dollars and make us rich men. I cut the grass for free, I do the website for free and I am always looking for ways to bring in business for them. I thought maybe this would be a way to bring in a dozen or so more people a season. That's it.

 

But you are right, it probably will not get past the reviewer.

 

Thanks to the people who actually helped me with my question.

 

Wait now. I helped. I pointed you to a website with the paint you would need.

 

What bothers me is every post you have made about this has come down to earning a couple of dollars for the theater. So it IS commercial.

 

My advice to you would be to place the cache OUTSIDE the theater. Why? Because there is a historical significance to the Drive-In theater. Maybe not that specific one but Drive-Ins are a part of history and I have seen a HUGE drop in their presence over the years. That is a reason to bring people here. Even mention on the cache page how you feel it's sad to see so many Drive-ins being torn down and turned into subdivisions and industrial parks. But do NOT try to get people to buy a ticket just to get a cache. That part isn't cool IMHO.

 

If the theater is a good one, when people find the cache outside, they just might get the idea themselves to buy a ticket and watch the movies.

[+bittsen]

I think people would search with a flashlight before they'd search with a uv or black light even if it was in the descriptin and had blacklight paint on it.

 

I bet most cachers don't even own a UV (blacklight) flashlight, let alone carry it with them. Every one of my friends think it's odd that I own one (as well as the assortment of UV powders)

[+NeecesandNephews]

So let me get this straight... if I post in my listing description "some digging required" its not like the people who choose to hunt it weren't warned they need to bring a shovel.

Despite the Guideline to the contrary. If you are forewarned by the listing description its ok to violate the Guidelines??? This one reeks "commercial" to me. Just my opinion

I can't see this one getting by the Reviewer, but you can take your chances. It will be up to him to decide so it really doesn't matter what any of us think.

[+GPS Joe]

Yep, you caught me. I am trying to lure customers in to the drive-in (rubbing my evil hands together). I am a selfish selfish man. Must be why I won't take a dime for cutting the grass every week and running the website for them as well as working when they need it, again for free. I don't get one cent from admissions or anything else. I do this all because business' in this small town are dropping like flies. If I can do anything to help pay the rent or electricity or film rental (studios take 40-60%) I will. Yes, drive-ins are a dying breed. Last I heard there were only around 400 left in the USA. There were 2300+ 25 years ago. Every year we fight to keep prices down and get first run movies here. It is so hard to compete these days. So Lord forgive me for trying to bring in a few more people. I hope they will still let me in the pearly gates.

[+bittsen]

Yep, you caught me. I am trying to lure customers in to the drive-in (rubbing my evil hands together). I am a selfish selfish man. Must be why I won't take a dime for cutting the grass every week and running the website for them as well as working when they need it, again for free. I don't get one cent from admissions or anything else. I do this all because business' in this small town are dropping like flies. If I can do anything to help pay the rent or electricity or film rental (studios take 40-60%) I will. Yes, drive-ins are a dying breed. Last I heard there were only around 400 left in the USA. There were 2300+ 25 years ago. Every year we fight to keep prices down and get first run movies here. It is so hard to compete these days. So Lord forgive me for trying to bring in a few more people. I hope they will still let me in the pearly gates.

 

I don't want to be mean or anything but i am seriously laughing on my side of the screen because you just don't see that it IS a commercial venture to get cach in the hands of the theater. Just because the theater needs the cache to survive isn't a good case. In fact, it's the opposite of a good case.

 

I'm sorry but if you can't see it then we can't do anything for you.

[+J the Goat]

Yep, you caught me. I am trying to lure customers in to the drive-in (rubbing my evil hands together). I am a selfish selfish man. Must be why I won't take a dime for cutting the grass every week and running the website for them as well as working when they need it, again for free. I don't get one cent from admissions or anything else. I do this all because business' in this small town are dropping like flies. If I can do anything to help pay the rent or electricity or film rental (studios take 40-60%) I will. Yes, drive-ins are a dying breed. Last I heard there were only around 400 left in the USA. There were 2300+ 25 years ago. Every year we fight to keep prices down and get first run movies here. It is so hard to compete these days. So Lord forgive me for trying to bring in a few more people. I hope they will still let me in the pearly gates.

 

I'm gonna jump in this pool for a bit. First off, I don't think that anyone here has anything but positive things to say about your volunteering your valuable (I mean that, all our time is valuable) time to an establishment such as a drive in theatre. That being said, here comes that part that you're going to get defensive about. You just asked a buch of people who don't care about your feelings if that dress makes you look fat. The people here in the forums, at least in my very limited experience, are very willing to help when people have questions. They don't even seem to get lippy when the same question is asked 354 times by 177 people. When a question is answered and advice is given however, and you choose to argue with what they're saying, that's when it goes from advice and answers to off topic arguments.

 

All they're pointing out is that any cache with the intent of drawing customers into a business for the purpose of getting business for the business, it's commercial. Ultimately your reviewer will approve or deny the listing.

 

I don't see the purpose of your defensive nature. If you don't want a question answered or an opinion voiced, stay off the public forums on the internet.

 

Bittsen, I love the idea about placing a cache near a drive in. I have a drive in about 45 minutes from here, and hadn't even thought about putting one there. Might have to work on that...

[+GPS Joe]

Fair enough

[+TripCyclone]

So I would like to somehow mark the cache with a phosphorous paint so it show up with a uv light or blacklight.

 

I won't comment on the other theme of this post, but I will comment on this. I wouldn't recommend using a paint that would require a UV light/blacklight (ummm...a true blacklight is a uv light). Most of us don't carry those around. So beyond the ticket price, people would need to also purchase a blacklight to find this. I wouldn't recommend it.

 

You mentioned it being in the back of the lot. You can find reflective tape in many outdoors/hunting sections of various stores. If you purchase that, a quick wrap of the tape around a section of the pole being used would be good. Yes, a flashlight is still needed, but in many cases, cachers are going to be more stealthy when a lot of people are around anyway so if a movie is taking place many might skip it. If they still decide to go after it, you might put a note that they should avoid strong flashlights during a movie. If it's in the back of the lot, and people shine the light away from the movie screen, you aren't going to bother too many people. Plus, by using reflective tape, it does give people the option of finding it without a flashlight. If done right, light from the screen might barely reflect off of it, and with a hint people could just look around for the pole with the reflective tape. Then people could use a low power flashlight or their phone to find the exact hiding spot on that pole. All less intrusive on the movie-going muggles too.

 

Just some other options for how to do this one.

[+simpjkee]

I think people would search with a flashlight before they'd search with a uv or black light even if it was in the descriptin and had blacklight paint on it.

 

I bet most cachers don't even own a UV (blacklight) flashlight, let alone carry it with them. Every one of my friends think it's odd that I own one (as well as the assortment of UV powders)

 

Black light flashlights are sorta popular here in az because it makes scorpions glow really bright green and there are scorpions all over the place.

[+niraD]

Some of my favorite caches have required a UV flashlight. Sometimes the UV flashlight is considered "special equipment" worth a 5-star difficulty rating, and the cache description hints at what "special equipment" is needed. Sometimes the UV flashlight isn't considered "special equipment", but the cache description makes the need for one more clear.

 

And there have been a few group buys of inexpensive UV flashlights, so there are a lot of people who have them, and many are willing to loan them out.

[+DarkZen]

Yep, you caught me. I am trying to lure customers in to the drive-in (rubbing my evil hands together). I am a selfish selfish man. Must be why I won't take a dime for cutting the grass every week and running the website for them as well as working when they need it, again for free. I don't get one cent from admissions or anything else. I do this all because business' in this small town are dropping like flies. If I can do anything to help pay the rent or electricity or film rental (studios take 40-60%) I will. Yes, drive-ins are a dying breed. Last I heard there were only around 400 left in the USA. There were 2300+ 25 years ago. Every year we fight to keep prices down and get first run movies here. It is so hard to compete these days. So Lord forgive me for trying to bring in a few more people. I hope they will still let me in the pearly gates.

Adding for clarity (I hope)...

 

No one is suggesting your motives are evil, it's just that they go against what the sport is about. No need to take it personally.

 

When I was a cache-noob I put out a cache in a local park that was then cache-less. The cache description told about all of the fun things to do in the park. The last line was a throw away, "And there's a good place to eat around the corner". Denied! I took off the offending line but the cache was never published. The folks here are just trying to save you a lot of time and trouble.

[+DragonsWest]

Put the cache outside the Drive-In so cachers are not required to pay admission. As a cacher, the worst case scenario is paying to get in and not finding the cache.

 

Placing the cache outside the perimeter could help business in the same way a cache near a Starbucks will, because people will become more aware of the business.

[+BCandMsKitty]

I publised a cache that was on the grounds of a local small museum about black history in the area. Got proper permissions. Footsteps To Freedom

I put a line in to be sure to stop in to the museum and let the folks there know what brought you to the museum, and that the admission price was well worth it. This is a non-profit organization, and you can access the cache without paying any admission (the admission is to the museum itself). I couldn't get it published until I removed the lines about admission and going into the premises to say "hi". It bordered too close on the "commercial" restrictions in the guidelines.

 

Your cache, while maybe well intended, will not fly if people have to buy a ticked to get the cache!

That's just the way of geocaching.

Put your cache somewhere on the outside of the grounds to get people there, and hope that they might decide to go to the theater while they are there. And don't get too heavy in your text about soliciting cachers to actually go into the drive-in. Even that might get it blocked as in my example.

You might even be able to locate it where you could use the traditional fire tacks and flashlight method of finding the cache.

[GOF and Bacall]

I think people would search with a flashlight before they'd search with a uv or black light even if it was in the descriptin and had blacklight paint on it.

 

I bet most cachers don't even own a UV (blacklight) flashlight, let alone carry it with them. Every one of my friends think it's odd that I own one (as well as the assortment of UV powders)

 

Black light flashlights are sorta popular here in az because it makes scorpions glow really bright green and there are scorpions all over the place.

 

Well at least I got to learn something from this thread.

 

I have a dollar that says the cache will not be published. It will run afoul of the commercial guideline. The difference between this and a state park is that the drive-in, no matter how rare these days, is a commercial venture and the state or provincial parks are not.

[+owlsent]

Not all theaters are commercial ventures, especially in a small town. Our theater, though not a drive-in, is owned and operated by the city, even shares a building with city hall. Would I be able to put a cache in our theater since it's operated by the City with the intent of keeping young people in town and as a gathering place? (admission is $2.00, med popcorn and 2 pops is $6. obviously we're not making money here)

[+bittsen]

Not all theaters are commercial ventures, especially in a small town. Our theater, though not a drive-in, is owned and operated by the city, even shares a building with city hall. Would I be able to put a cache in our theater since it's operated by the City with the intent of keeping young people in town and as a gathering place? (admission is $2.00, med popcorn and 2 pops is $6. obviously we're not making money here)

 

Nope

 

 

 

 

Just an educated guess.

[GOF and Bacall]

Not all theaters are commercial ventures, especially in a small town. Our theater, though not a drive-in, is owned and operated by the city, even shares a building with city hall. Would I be able to put a cache in our theater since it's operated by the City with the intent of keeping young people in town and as a gathering place? (admission is $2.00, med popcorn and 2 pops is $6. obviously we're not making money here)

 

I suspect that may be pushing the exemption given to state parks and such beyond the limits.

[+GPS Joe]

The suggestion of placing it outside the drive-in was a good one. But we are so close to the main street (actually a highway) that it probably wouldn't be feasible. There is an abandoned building not too far from the entrance that I may check out. I think I know who the owner is.

 

Thanks

[+Castle Mischief]

The suggestion of placing it outside the drive-in was a good one. But we are so close to the main street (actually a highway) that it probably wouldn't be feasible. There is an abandoned building not too far from the entrance that I may check out. I think I know who the owner is.

 

Thanks

 

Now you're talking. Creepy abandoned buildings will attract cachers like nobody's business. Hope you can work it out with the owner.

[+Odie442]

This one is by far the best Nightcache I have done and did it with a great group.

 

GC: NOCTURNAL

 

Odie

[+RampagerBOH]

Im working on a Night Multi - cache and Im thinking of getting some invisible UV paint to use instead of Fire Tacks to mark the trail. Any other advice I can use?