Historical Markers Revisited

[mapguy56]

I wandered into the Indiana Historical Bureau's bookstore yesterday to buy a book. Somehow the conversation with the workers turned to Geocaching. They were most anxious to talk with someone that had experience with the game.

 

It is their intention to gather the coordinates for all of the historical markers in the state and add this information to their already existing database:

http://www.statelib.lib.in.us/www/ihb/markers/index.html

 

They do not have the funds or manpower to achieve this goal, and they were wondering if Geocaching might be the answer. What immediatly sprang to mind as parallels were not only the National Map Corp program and benchmark hunting, but possibly a locationless cache which would contain all of the data on one page.

 

If I were to set up such a locationless cache (I have yet to create my first cache, yet), what specific guidelines would I need to follow. Normally L.C.'s are limited to one per cacher. I don't see why in this case I couldn't change that rule, after all, there are 450 markers in Indiana, and since this is as much a project as it is a cache, part of the purpose would be to gather the data asap.

 

We would limit it to one log per marker, of course.

 

Any input is welcome and appreciated.

 

Rob

[+Robespierre]

I'm sure that any State could find a few cachers who would begin to find and submit coordinates. Problem is, of course, possible mistakes.

 

Do they already have "directions" or locations to these markers which would help to locate these? Then WHY coordinates?

 

Is this a connected cacher manipulating the thought process toward a personal wish? Is this a real need - to have the coords for each marker? And what would it have to do with geocaching?

 

If you started hiding caches at each marker would that suffice?

[mapguy56]

Is this a connected cacher manipulating the thought process toward a personal wish?

 

Uh, I'm the cacher, and I'm not "connected" in any way other than both myself and the person I spoke with are state employees. Different departments, different shifts. I was just looking around on my way home in the morning.

Personal wish? It sounded like a neat project that I thought other cachers would enjoy.

 

Is this a real need - to have the coords for each marker?

 

The state wants the information for their data base. Can't have too much information - sometimes...

 

And what would it have to do with geocaching?

 

It would take cachers to historically interesting places.

What does any other locationless, virtual or benchmark find have to do with Geocaching?

[+TeamK-9]

My state historical commission has a similar database of all their markers. They have the names, and information found on all of the markers throughout PA. The site also has basic description of locations of the markers, but I know from experience, after trying to find a couple for a cache I was planning that the directions aren't always great. Sometimes, it will be something as vague as "Route 22 outside this town." I think coordinates would be incredibly useful.

 

That being said, I don't see the need for setting it up as a cache. And with GC's "moratorium" on locationless caches, I don't see it likely that you'll get one posted.

 

It is a great idea however.

 

Maybe if you got together with the webmaster of one of the state websites, like this one you could set up a way for people to learn about what you're doing and help out...

[mapguy56]

I was not aware of a moratorium on locationless caches. Please elaborate.

 

I also know of the Indiana Geocaching organization's website, but they don't seem to get a lot of activity. I thought I would start here, move to the Regional forum, and then post something on Indiana's site for sure, later.

[+TeamK-9]

Well, a year or so ago, Geocaching.com adopted it's moratorium on Locationless caches. They're allowing the old ones to stay, but they will not approve any new ones. Supposedly, they're going to eventually impliment a new system for making locationless caches work better, but I think I've been hearing that rumor for a year or so now.

 

But yah, they're not approving any new locationless'...

 

Sorry.

[+Renegade Knight]

I'm sure that any State could find a few cachers who would begin to find and submit coordinates. Problem is, of course, possible mistakes.

 

Do they already have "directions" or locations to these markers which would help to locate these? Then WHY coordinates?

 

Is this a connected cacher manipulating the thought process toward a personal wish? Is this a real need - to have the coords for each marker? And what would it have to do with geocaching?

 

If you started hiding caches at each marker would that suffice?

1) The transportation departent might have mileposts for the ones on their highways.

2) They dont' have directions. Markers just "are".

3) It's a need in that a prospective geocaching allly needs some help. We need ally's and noting the location of markers is easy to do as we go about our business. We know how to mark waypoints.

4) Yes hiding a cache at each marker would do, it would give you the waypoints they requested and give people more reason to visit the markers.

[Team Misguided]

I wandered into the Indiana Historical Bureau's bookstore yesterday to buy a book. Somehow the conversation with the workers turned to Geocaching. They were most anxious to talk with someone that had experience with the game.

 

It is their intention to gather the coordinates for all of the historical markers in the state and add this information to their already existing database:

http://www.statelib.lib.in.us/www/ihb/markers/index.html

 

They do not have the funds or manpower to achieve this goal, and they were wondering if Geocaching might be the answer. What immediatly sprang to mind as parallels were not only the National Map Corp program and benchmark hunting, but possibly a locationless cache which would contain all of the data on one page.

 

If I were to set up such a locationless cache (I have yet to create my first cache, yet), what specific guidelines would I need to follow. Normally L.C.'s are limited to one per cacher. I don't see why in this case I couldn't change that rule, after all, there are 450 markers in Indiana, and since this is as much a project as it is a cache, part of the purpose would be to gather the data asap.

 

We would limit it to one log per marker, of course.

 

Any input is welcome and appreciated.

 

Rob

What you are describing will be an excellent use of the new site functionality that is currently being worked on to handle locationless & virtual caches. Here is a fairly recent post by Jeremy on the subject.

 

I applaud your desire to help out your state this way. Geocachers, especially in light of the situation in South Carolina, should always try and help out if we can. If you have a local group you might also try to work with them to get the word out to other state cachers about this project.

[ghostwriter13]

I work as a GIS/GPS specialist, and we are always looking for new sources of data. I could see how inportant this layer could be, especially to local government! I would love to have these for the state of kentucky, (maybe I will look int this on monday)

[+SherwoodForest]

we've got a similar sideproject in the works in Ohio -- waypointing Ohio's cemeteries. it's still mainly conceptual at this point, but a neat way geocachers can pay back the greater community with our skills and abilities (or at least our expensive gadgets using military satellites)

[Jeremy]

What you are describing will be an excellent use of the new site functionality that is currently being worked on to handle locationless & virtual caches. Here is a fairly recent post by Jeremy on the subject.

Yes. The new site functionality, once implemented, will exactly address this concept. The idea about a list of historical markers has been an often requested feature.

 

Machines have been ordered and the site is going through documentation and bug testing. We'll try to have a FAQ online earlier to answer many questions about the new features.

[mapguy56]

I work as a GIS/GPS specialist, and we are always looking for new sources of data.  I could see how inportant this layer could be, especially to local government!  I would love to have these for the state of kentucky, (maybe I will look int this on monday)

 

That's exactly one of the words the Historical Bureau lady used - layer. She also said they recieved the suggestion of Geocaching from our state's GIS department...

 

I would love to transition from my job in the mainframe computer enviornment to something to do with mapping. Any suggestions, ghostwriter?

[magellan315]

I think this is a great idea and I hope Maps n Motorcycles takes the time to follow through and organize this project. Boy I hope no one in South Carolina finds out that Geocachers could be a great source of volunteer labor that could help departments that are understaffed and underbudgeted.

[ghostwriter13]

maps 'n motorcycles, first you need to go to www.esri.com and register as a new user. They have a wealth of information, and free online training seminars. Their usere conference in San Diego is coming up at the end of July. Quite a few colleges are coming up with GIS certificate programs also, you might check around your area.

 

 

As for the historical markers -- Is there a master list of all the markers in a particular state? I am especially interested in Kentucky's historical markers, anyone know where I could find where they are located?

[+Teach2Learn]

maps 'n motorcycles, first you need to go to www.esri.com and register as a new user.  They have a wealth of information, and free online training seminars.  Their usere conference in San Diego is coming up at the end of July.  Quite a few colleges are coming up with GIS certificate programs also, you might check around your area. 

 

 

As for the historical markers -- Is there a master list of all the markers in a particular state?  I am especially interested in Kentucky's historical markers, anyone know where I could find where they are located?

 

Here's the main link and one that works with school projects. KY has over 1700 markers in the primary database. The second one requests contributions about the markers from schools, including photos, and I bet coordinates would be appreciated when missing.

 

Kentucky Historical Society's Marker Database

 

Signs of History (Historical Markers and KY Schools)

 

Much of the database info is linked to this book:

Roadside History: A Guide to Kentucky Highway Markers. (2002)

Compiled by Dianne Wells; edited by Melba Porter Hay and Thomas Appleton Jr.

--"This more than 300-page travelogue contains the text of the more than 1,800 markers that dot Kentucky’s highways and byways in all 120 counties. The markers, green with gold letters and emblazoned with the state seal, carry historical inscriptions commemorating sites, individuals, buildings, and events of statewide or national interest. There are markers that tell of a duel of honor, a seven-year-old boy who served as a drummer in the Revolutionary War, and the 1937 Ohio River flood. Others highlight moonlight schools that were established to combat illiteracy, an Indian academy, the first state-supported school for the hearing impaired in the U.S., and a giant, centuries-old sassafras tree." (from KY Historical Society website)

 

edit: to add book info

Edited June 5, 2005 by Teach2Learn

[mapguy56]

Ghostwriter, thanks for the information!

 

Here is the Link to Indiana's Database. I'm sorry, I thought you saw this link in my initial post.

 

From what I have seen, most states probably have a database online already. I was impressed by the book that Teach2Learn linked to. Indiana is getting ready to publish along the same lines. It's a shame we couldn't have included the co-ords in it. It is just about to go to press. Next edition, I guess. There are more signs going up all the time, which will ensure updated printed editions.

 

Thank you everyone for your support in my inquiry!

 

maps