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Nudecacher Innocent!


Nudecacher

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As Nudecacher, I was cited for "indecent exposure" at the What's On Your List Today? cache by Half-Canadian and Scooter the Wonder Dog on August 9th. I posted the citation along with my regular log and the expected nudecacher picture, which I had taken before the police showed up. Yesterday the case was "Dismissed w/Prejudice" with the "Not able to obtain sufficient evidence to convict" box checked. That means that the prosecutor accepted our request to dismiss the case and the judge prevents an identical lawsuit from being filed later, the with prejudice part.

 

Nudecacher seems to be a popular discussion topic in these forums and in the cache logs where I've been, so I'm starting this thread to discuss the legal implications of nude caching for those who are interested.

 

I had the opportunity to explain geocaching in general and nudecacher in particular to two police officers, my lawyer, and to the prosecutor via a booklet that I made up to enter as evidence. Geocaching and nudecacher were central to the case and so this is on-topic in this forum.

 

It seems like a simple case of caught in the act. So why was it dismissed? One police officer in his report says he saw me without my clothes on. The picture is there online too.

 

First I have to say, I am not a lawyer. I had to hire one.

 

The "indecent exposure" description is used to refer to the alleged crime but is not part of the law. The law that I was cited under actually only says

Made an open and obscene exposure of his person to another, knowing that the conduct was likely to cause reasonable alarm.

You can easily look up the law for jurisdictions that you are interested in, often online or in a library.

 

If the cache had been in unincorporated Whatcom County where I live, the INDECENT EXPOSURE Code reads

It is unlawful for any person to intentionally expose or knowingly permit exposure of his or her genitals or expose his or her entire buttocks to public view in a county park while sunbathing ...

The code was poorly written in response to the closing of nude use of Teddy Bear Cove. So a valid defense would be "I wasn't sunbathing, I was playing volleyball" or "I wasn't in the county park, I was across the street".

 

In my case there are several independent phrases, but the main ones are that the exposure was alleged to be obscene and that I knew that it was likely to cause reasonable alarm. "Obscene" refers to sexual or lewd behavior. Nudists argue that simple nudity is not necessarily lewd. "Likely to cause reasonable alarm" does not apply to actual witnesses, but to the intent of the defendant in an abstract sense. So in my defense, I claimed that what I did was not obscene and that there was no intent to cause any harm to anyone. Indeed, I was unaware that anyone had even seen me in the brief period that I was undressed.

 

The Naturist Society FAQ answers the question 'What about the law; isn’t "social nudity" illegal?'. Mark Storey has published an interesting essay, The Offense of Public Nudity, that outlines the issues.

 

Gary Young

aka Nudecacher

 

Edited to clarify first sentence. The cache is by Half-Canadian and Scooter the Wonder Dog. The police officer gave me the citation. I didn't mean to imply that Half-Canadian turned me in. Far from that, she felt bad about the incident and has given me lots of moral support. Gary

Edited by nudecacher
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Um, Nudecacher don't take this the wrong way (I realize beauty is in the eyes of the beholder), but why can't Paris Hilton, Jennifer Connelly and Hillary Swank be nudists?  Why is it always someone who looks much better with their clothes on?  :(

That's the whole point. It isn't about beauty. It's about freedom.

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From the Forum Guidelines:

 

Some things to keep in mind when posting:

 

Respect: Respect the guidelines for forum usage, and site usage. Respect Groundspeak, its employees, volunteers, yourself, fellow community members, and guests on these boards. Whether a community member has one post or 5,000 posts, they deserve the same respect.

 

Personal Attacks and Flames will not be tolerated. If you want to praise or criticize, give examples as to why it is good or bad, general attacks on a person or idea will not be tolerated.

 

Nudecacher started this thread as a way to help others who may be (or will be) in the same situation he was in. He did not start it to be mocked.

Edited by Quiggle
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Um, Nudecacher don't take this the wrong way (I realize beauty is in the eyes of the beholder), but why can't Paris Hilton, Jennifer Connelly and Hillary Swank be nudists?  Why is it always someone who looks much better with their clothes on?  :(

That's the whole point. It isn't about beauty. It's about freedom.

Is that like riding a motorcycle without a helmut?

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As an attorney, the legal issue in this was interesting. Had I seen this before knowing the outcome, I would have guessed that you should and would win, but that you might have to wait until appeal to do so. It can be common for prosecutors to push for conviction and trial courts to convict (assuming a bench trial) when statutory or code interpretation is at issue. The definitions of obscene and lewd are pretty clear cut in the law and the intent evidence was lacking when the photograph does not show the key parts. I am glad that was realized so that you didn't have to pay for an appeal.

 

Standard disclaimer: I am not giving legal advice and am only providing personal commentary/observation/opinion on a legal subject.

Edited by carleenp
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A rather expensive find I expect.

I was thinking of setting up a paypal link on my profile page for donations to my legal fund. :(

Is there a place where one can donate to whatever law enforcement agency is responsible for your arrest?

Niiice. :(

 

I am glad you won, Nudieman. :(

 

I think it's sad that we are so repressed as a nation that the mere glimpse of a bare breast sends people into a frenzy. For cryin out loud.

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A rather expensive find I expect.

I was thinking of setting up a paypal link on my profile page for donations to my legal fund. :(

Is there a place where one can donate to whatever law enforcement agency is responsible for your arrest?

Niiice. :(

 

I am glad you won, Nudieman. :(

 

I think it's sad that we are so repressed as a nation that the mere glimpse of a bare breast sends people into a frenzy. For cryin out loud.

Not at all. In fact, I've stayed at clothing optional resorts in the United States and in Australia. I've visited and participated in clothing optional beaches in those countries as well as Sint Maarten and Anguilla. I have no aversion whatsoever to nakedness in any way, shape, or form.

 

I do NOT, however, think that a geocache in plain sight of a courthouse is the appropriate venue for that sort of activity any more than I would think about walking naked through Times Square.

 

And as for the relevance to Geocaching and the appropriateness for this forum - claiming that this thread is here "to help others who might find themselves in the same situation" is akin to my starting a thread about the best way to beat a speeding ticket and claiming it is on topic because I was speeding on the way to a cache site.

Edited by ParrotRob
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It’s a good thing you weren’t under a bridge, next to a runway.

 

I have known a few nudists. I even spent a whole day at a nude beach near San Francisco back in the ‘60s. It was a little scary until I took my clothes off. Almost instantly (and for the rest of the day) I experienced the freedom nudecacher mentions. Later I experienced terrible sunburn in all the wrong places. :(

 

Somehow, I just don’t see myself experiencing that kind of freedom geocaching, but I’m happy for you.

 

Keep it up, nudecacher! :(:(

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And as for the relevance to Geocaching and the appropriateness for this forum - claiming that this thread is here "to help others who might find themselves in the same situation" is akin to my starting a thread about the best way to beat a speeding ticket and claiming it is on topic because I was speeding on the way to a cache site.

Except that speeding can kill. Nudity won't.

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And as for the relevance to Geocaching and the appropriateness for this forum - claiming that this thread is here "to help others who might find themselves in the same situation" is akin to my starting a thread about the best way to beat a speeding ticket and claiming it is on topic because I was speeding on the way to a cache site.

Except that speeding can kill. Nudity won't.

Very well then.

 

And as for the relevance to Geocaching and the appropriateness for this forum - claiming that this thread is here "to help others who might find themselves in the same situation" is akin to my starting a thread about the best way to beat a public intoxication citation and claiming it is on topic because I was getting hammered at a cache site.

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And as for the relevance to Geocaching and the appropriateness for this forum - claiming that this thread is here "to help others who might find themselves in the same situation" is akin to my starting a thread about the best way to beat a speeding ticket and claiming it is on topic because I was speeding on the way to a cache site.

Except that speeding can kill. Nudity won't.

Very well then.

 

And as for the relevance to Geocaching and the appropriateness for this forum - claiming that this thread is here "to help others who might find themselves in the same situation" is akin to my starting a thread about the best way to beat a public intoxication citation and claiming it is on topic because I was getting hammered at a cache site.

drunkcacher.

 

Excellent idea!

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And as for the relevance to Geocaching and the appropriateness for this forum - claiming that this thread is here "to help others who might find themselves in the same situation" is akin to my starting a thread about the best way to beat a speeding ticket and claiming it is on topic because I was speeding on the way to a cache site.

Except that speeding can kill. Nudity won't.

Very well then.

 

And as for the relevance to Geocaching and the appropriateness for this forum - claiming that this thread is here "to help others who might find themselves in the same situation" is akin to my starting a thread about the best way to beat a public intoxication citation and claiming it is on topic because I was getting hammered at a cache site.

drunkcacher.

 

Excellent idea!

Until you have to drive to the next cache or home.

 

T.

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Um, Nudecacher don't take this the wrong way (I realize beauty is in the eyes of the beholder), but why can't Paris Hilton, Jennifer Connelly and Hillary Swank be nudists?  Why is it always someone who looks much better with their clothes on?  :(

That's the whole point. It isn't about beauty. It's about freedom.

Is that like riding a motorcycle without a helmut?

I think so. After riding with and without a helmut I have to say I like free better. You know the wind in my remaining hair kind of thing.

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...explain exactly what beating a public indecency rap has to do with Geocaching?

He was geocaching when it happened and he geocaches regularly like that. What is relevant about getting busted for sitting on a park bench without a kid in a kid's park? What is the relevance of caching in costume, or sporting a geocaching tattoo? For that matter, what is the relevance of your swag or your caching clothes? :(:(

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Again, please keep the discussion on-topic.  There are plenty of places for you to post in the Off-Topic forums if you're trying to be funny.

 

Thank you.

Quiggle, as a moderator can you explain exactly what beating a public indecency rap has to do with Geocaching?

Actually it isn't indecency. It pretains to caching in the sense that he was arrested while doing it nude. Besides that, the majority of us are interested in the outcome.

 

Why people are negative about nudisim baffles me. You came in this world nude. As long as there are no sexual actions, lewed or obscene, I don't see the problem.

 

El Diablo

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Again, please keep the discussion on-topic.  There are plenty of places for you to post in the Off-Topic forums if you're trying to be funny.

 

Thank you.

Quiggle, as a moderator can you explain exactly what beating a public indecency rap has to do with Geocaching?

Actually it isn't indecency. It pretains to caching in the sense that he was arrested while doing it nude. Besides that, the majority of us are interested in the outcome.

 

Why people are negative about nudisim baffles me. You came in this world nude. As long as there are no sexual actions, lewed or obscene, I don't see the problem.

 

El Diablo

I see. So you would have no problem with, say, naked adult males hanging out around, say, your daughter's school? I mean, after all, we were all born naked, eh?

 

Off topic, sure. Certainly not a geocaching topic though, regardless of who ok'ed it.

 

Topics get moved all the time that have more to do with Geocaching than getting locked up for being naked.

 

So much for "family friendly".

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I see. So you would have no problem with, say, naked adult males hanging out around, say, your daughter's school? I mean, after all, we were all born naked, eh?

 

Off topic, sure. Certainly not a geocaching topic though, regardless of who ok'ed it.

 

Now you are taking my comment out of context. A nude male hanging around a school as you put it, would cause alarm.

 

Back on topic. A nude male hiking in the woods with no intent to harm anyone is no cause for alarm. I bet if it was a nice looking female you wouldn't complain.

 

El Diablo

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From the Forum Guidelines:

 

Some things to keep in mind when posting:

 

Respect: Respect the guidelines for forum usage, and site usage. Respect Groundspeak, its employees, volunteers, yourself, fellow community members, and guests on these boards. Whether a community member has one post or 5,000 posts, they deserve the same respect.

 

Personal Attacks and Flames will not be tolerated. If you want to praise or criticize, give examples as to why it is good or bad, general attacks on a person or idea will not be tolerated.

 

Nudecacher started this thread as a way to help others who may be (or will be) in the same situation he was in. He did not start it to be mocked.

Quiggle

 

Some people may not have been around enough to know of nudecacher's history and of the interest his cache hunting attire may have to a substantial portion of the geocaching community. nudecacher on the other hand is well aware that some people object to his caching in the nude (and posting photos of it in his logs). I don't see that the replies that state such an objection are in any way off-topic or disrepectful of nudecacher or other forum participants. Such messages are and have always been part of any thread discussing nudecacher.

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I see.  So you would have no problem with, say, naked adult males hanging out around, say, your daughter's school?  I mean, after all, we were all born naked, eh?

 

Off topic, sure.  Certainly not a geocaching topic though, regardless of who ok'ed it.

 

Now you are taking my comment out of context. A nude male hanging around a school as you put it, would cause alarm.

 

Back on topic. A nude male hiking in the woods

333 Gilkey Street, Burlington, WA is hardly the middle of the woods. By his own admission he was a half block from the courthouse and visible from the building.

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NudeCacher, congratulations on your victory. As a cop, I'm often put in the position of questioning the viability and/or contitutionality of certain laws. Personally I'm adamantly opposed to any law designed to protect somebody from their own stupidity. Once we invole the courts, we eliminate any chance of Darwinism solving our problems. My own definition of sin falls real close to a Wiccan expression; "An it harm none, do as thy wislt".

 

(probably not the best creed for a cop to have) LOL!

 

Done with the rant. Back on topic:

It never fails to amaze me how ingrained our sociatal fear of nudity is. I see parents quite often who have no problem letting their kids buy Eminem (sp?) CD's espousing violence against women, but let a loose butt cheek show and they freak.

 

Only in Amerika, huh.

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333 Gilkey Street, Burlington, WA is hardly the middle of the woods.  By his own admission he was a half block from the courthouse and visible from the building.

Without arguing the merits of his decision to cache there, rumor has it that one of the cache owners even suggested to him that it would be nude friendly.

 

I think without visiting the exact location, at the time nudecacher was there, it is not fair to judge the "where." Actually, we're not judging anyone here, nudecacher is not guilty.

 

What's your real beef with this topic? :(:(

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I bet if it was a nice looking female you wouldn't complain.

I bet he would. He'd cover one eye with Leviticus. And the other with Exodus.

Your prejudice is showing. Not everyone who disagrees with you is a god-pounding conservative christian bible-thumper. Some of us are atheistic civil libertarians who just so happen to think there is a proper time and place for everything and a city block is not the appropriate place for that sort of behavior.

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I see.  So you would have no problem with, say, naked adult males hanging out around, say, your daughter's school?  I mean, after all, we were all born naked, eh?

 

Off topic, sure.  Certainly not a geocaching topic though, regardless of who ok'ed it.

 

Now you are taking my comment out of context. A nude male hanging around a school as you put it, would cause alarm.

 

Back on topic. A nude male hiking in the woods with no intent to harm anyone is no cause for alarm. I bet if it was a nice looking female you wouldn't complain.

 

El Diablo

The code at issue requires:

 

. . . an open and obscene exposure of his person to another, knowing that the conduct was likely to cause reasonable alarm.

 

So it has two elements, both of which must be met. What is "open and obscene" will be defined by case law using statutory interpretation. I would guess that in the jurisdiction, circumstantial evidence could show that and that the presence of nudity around children would be considered as such even if not blatently sexual. The second part is an objective intent standard of knowing it to cause reasonable alarm. This would normally not require subjective intent (unless the jurisdicion has wonky case law) so what the nudist believed would not matter, it would be what they should have resonably known. I would imagine that nudity around a school would meet that (whether male or female). So in such a case, the person would likely be convicted.

 

In Nudecacher's case, there was first the issue of an "open" exposure to another. There was not evidence that there were people obviously around and the best permanent evidence is a picture that does not expose key parts. Although the fact that it happened could meet that element, accidentally being seen is not necessarily enough. It would depend on the case law in the area interpreting the code. Next, the intent to cause alarm when in a situation where not meant to be seen and doing so as part of nudist hobby activities makes it hard to find a reasonable knowledge that it would cause alarm. The prosecution would have the burden of proving these things beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

So that is the difference. Now people might not agree with the code as written, but that is another issue. I don't see this as "beating" a charge as I see it as rightfuly not having sufficient evidence of a crime under the code as written.

 

BTW, I don't have a strong personal opinion on nudecaching. I wouldn't want to be surprised by a naked person in the woods, but if it turned out to be a nudist and nothing more, I suppose I would have a good story to tell after my initial shock. To each his or her own there, although obviously the activity carries some legal (and societal) risks that a nude geocacher should consider.

 

Standard disclaimer: I am not providing legal advice or services. I am only giving a personal opinion on a legal topic. :(

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