Date Format - Anyway Of Changing It?

[+scottpa100]

Hello,

 

this may be have been covered / requested but I couldn't see it so here goes!

 

Anyway of getting the date format to show your own locale settings. The website uses American settings (mm/dd/yyyy) yet most of Europe uses dd/mm/yyyy. I'm forever misreading the dates of caches and visits. This may be could be something on my account settings, or when you enter your home co-ordinates, the system assumes from that?

 

Many thanks!

 

 

Scott (U.K.)

[Aushiker]

My vote is for localised settings.

 

Andrew

[+Paradiddle]

Here, here! I second that proposal.

[+kelly@9]

Or just compromise on YYYYMMDD, which no one uses in "the real world", but is logical to computer geeks everywhere.

[+tls11823]

I feel your pain. I'm on the west side of the pond, but share email with co-workers all over the world. Depending on how things are quoted, it can be a mess to figure out how old a particular message is. Of course, that's not as bad as the time I was in Northern Ireland and happened to glance at the wrapper from the sandwich I had nearly finished. For a few moments I thought the sell-by date was two months in the past.

 

OK - I'm drifting off-topic. I support the request for localised (or is it localized ) settings.

[Aushiker]

Or just compromise on YYYYMMDD, which no one uses in "the real world", but is logical to computer geeks everywhere.

Hi

 

Another comprise is writing the date MMMM/DD/YYYY, e.g., Jan 21, 2006. That is not just numbers but a spelt out month. This is easily readable by both sids of the fence.

 

Andrew

[+Glenn]

Or just compromise on YYYYMMDD, which no one uses in "the real world", but is logical to computer geeks everywhere. 

Hi

 

Another comprise is writing the date MMMM/DD/YYYY, e.g., Jan 21, 2006. That is not just numbers but a spelt out month. This is easily readable by both sids of the fence.

 

Andrew

You forgot about those who don't speak English, they could have a hard time with the month spelled out. There is no one size fits all date format.

[+BigFurryMonster]

What Andrew/Aushiker said. Clarity is what we need.

[+BalkanSabranje]

Für mich bitte DD.MM.YYYY oder YYYYMMDD (and metric data on distances).

[Aushiker]

Or just compromise on YYYYMMDD, which no one uses in "the real world", but is logical to computer geeks everywhere. 

Hi

 

Another comprise is writing the date MMMM/DD/YYYY, e.g., Jan 21, 2006. That is not just numbers but a spelt out month. This is easily readable by both sids of the fence.

 

Andrew

You forgot about those who don't speak English, they could have a hard time with the month spelled out. There is no one size fits all date format.

Hi

 

Are not so sure about that. If the rest of the site is in English, how will it make any difference? If it is already translated why wouldn't the month be translated?

 

Andrew

[+Cornix]

Why not use International date format (ISO): YYYY-MM-DD.

It's the recommended standard for the web.

 

Cornix

[+VesaK]

Why not use International date format (ISO): YYYY-MM-DD.

It's the recommended standard for the web.

 

Cornix

ISO standards also say that distance is measured in meters, A4 is a paper size and first day of the week is monday. Why would this site care about international standards in formatting dates?

[+BalkanSabranje]

Why not use International date format (ISO): YYYY-MM-DD.

It's the recommended standard for the web.

 

Cornix

ISO standards also say that distance is measured in meters, A4 is a paper size and first day of the week is monday. Why would this site care about international standards in formatting dates?

'Cause like with paper formats, distances, weekdays it's the generally accepted principles. Maybe not in the USA, but that's their problem, not the world's. :unsure:

 

Or, to put it differently: because this website claims to be international ("The Official Global GPS Cache Hunt Site"), nothing less. (no emoticons)

 

BS/2

[+sbell111]

'Cause like with paper formats, distances, weekdays it's the generally accepted principles. Maybe not in the USA, but that's their problem, not the world's. :unsure:

 

Or, to put it differently: because this website claims to be international ("The Official Global GPS Cache Hunt Site"), nothing less. (no emoticons)

 

BS/2

Remember when this came up a while back? It was alot of blah, blah, blah, yet the date still makes perfect sense to me.

 

It kind of bothers me that some have taken the stance that it is wrong the way it is and need to be changed for everybody. In case you didn't notice, the site is run by a US company. Why should it conform to only non-US users?

 

I would have no objection to making the dates localized, but to change them across the board would cause even more grief (believe it or not, there are a honking lot of cachers in the US).

[+VesaK]

In case you didn't notice, the site is run by a US company.

Yes, but the site is supposed to be "global". If the company didn't want users from other countries, why would they label their site being "global"?

Why should it conform to only non-US users?

Do you see international or global being opposite to U.S.? They include every country, also U.S.

(believe it or not, there are a honking lot of cachers in the US).

Believe or not, there are several other sites listing geocaches, and many more are being planned or built. Mostly because cachers in some countries think gc.com is too U.S. centric.

 

I'm not telling Groundspeak that they should run their business certain way, but I bet they had more potential to grow outside America if non-US users were supported more. If that's what they want, that is.

 

P.S. Did you ever wonder why the North American baseball league is called "World Series"? How many European teams are playing? African? Asian? Are they not part of the World?

[+sbell111]

OK, take a breath. I did not suggest that it shouldn't be in a format that's easy for you to read, I merely stated that changing it for everyone would only make the problem, worse because then the cachers who prefer it in its current format wouldn't like it.

 

If any change is made, it should be to allow the user to choose or to make it based on the user's (or cache's) location.

 

BTW, a few posts up, didn't you vote against this proposed change?

[+VesaK]

BTW, a few posts up, didn't you vote against this proposed change? 

No, I forgot a smiley expressing irony.

[+sbell111]

Oh. Without the smiley, I agree 97.3%.

[+VesaK]

Oh.  Without the smiley, I agree 97.3%. 

How did you get that number? According to CIA Factbook (in July 2005) 4.6% of World population lived in US, that makes 95.4% of potential gc.com users being non-US.

[+scottpa100]

Cool, this is getting some good responses. Changing the date everywhere, across the entire website, would affect many people. There will be many different standards used by the people across the globe who access this website. People using the US standard, the standard used throughout most of Europe and other areas and there will be computer geeks using the ISO standard.

 

I don't see any reason for the requirement of a compromise if computer operating systems can accommodate the change, surely the website can?! The website can tell me all the geocaches within X number of miles (and taking on the feedback from BalkanSabranje, I think the option of having the distances in kilometers is a great idea!) surely it can tell me that a geocache was collected on the 14th of July 2005, rather than the 7th of the 14th month, 2005?

 

Are there any Groundspeak bods out there who can advise or is it impossible??

 

 

Scott

[+welch]

My vote, not that a see an actual poll, is that the month be done with letters not numbers. Abbreviated is ok, and I don't care where the day is first last or middle, since it will be possiable to figure out.

[+HaLiJuSaPa]

Count me in as another Yank who nonetheless agrees there should be some way for those outside of North America to do dates their way. Even though this site is heavily American, it's still a global site.

 

There must be a way to customize for the user, right? Kind of like how I believe you can toggle between "English" and metric?

 

But if not, maybe Welch's idea of using letters instead of numbers for the month would work.

[+The Blue Quasar]

That's a great idea!

 

The site already allows Miles or Kilometers.... I too have trouble knowing the date of a cache... for data reason.

 

Another thing I don't care for is dates like this.... 3/13/5. Like is that May 13, 2003 or March 13, 2005? I know, the 5 would be 05 but it is still fuzzy.

 

Actually while checking my caches to makes sure I don't make a mistake... even the format varies from page to page

 

My cache GCM6YB if viewed on the cache page itself says it was placed on "1/1/2005"

BUT...

On my profile page it say is was placed on "1 Jan 05"

 

That's not consistent at all.

 

I like the Profile Page version, although "01 JAN 05" would be better than "1 Jan 05" in my opinion.

 

However, if it should only be numbers... I agree with the YYYYMMDD version. Top down is never misunderstood when expressed in 8 digits. So far every cache would be 200XMMDD anyways. If someone screws that up... maybe Geocaching isn't the best hobby for them

 

The Blue Quasar

[+Glenn]

To honor those that made geocaching possible I think the date format should be DDMMMYYYY. So today would be written as 24JAN2006. If not all the time how about just on Veterans day.

[+ParrotRobAndCeCe]

In case you didn't notice, the site is run by a US company.

Yes, but the site is supposed to be "global". If the company didn't want users from other countries, why would they label their site being "global"?

Why should it conform to only non-US users?

Do you see international or global being opposite to U.S.? They include every country, also U.S.

Uh, no, they do NOT include the U.S. Your "international" standards are NOT used here, regardless of whether you want to call them "international" or "standard".

[Jeremy]

It would take a lot of work, but I would prefer it as an account option.

[+scottpa100]

An account option on the user's profile I think is definately the fairest way. This would accommodate for all the different ways that people use and manage date formats, to see the date their way. From what I understand (please forgive me if I am not precise here) but computers do store the date in ISO YYYYMMDD and it is just juggled aboout and presented differently for the person using the computer at the end.

 

If a profile option was implemented, then the American market is happy, the European markets are happy and potentially most of the world is happy (from what I have read on this article here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_format )

 

 

Scott (UK)

[+BalkanSabranje]

Uh, no, they do NOT include the U.S. 

Wrong, it's not "their" standards, but "ours".

And the USA are of course part of this system - the internationals standards are also appliccable over (t)here.

USA as Member Body of ISO

 

Your "international" standards are NOT used here, regardless of whether you want to call them "international" or "standard".

You must have missed the concept of "standards".

They do not describe a majority usage, but the form that is recommended to use.

[+JDandDD]

It would take a lot of work, but I would prefer it as an account option.

I don't understand all this argument over a 'date' standard. Jeremy has it right, if it is to implemented then it should be an account option just like miles and kilometers. That way everyone gets the info that is the easiest for them to understand.

 

JDandDD

[Aushiker]

My vote, not that a see an actual poll, is that the month be done with letters not numbers. Abbreviated is ok, and I don't care where the day is first last or middle, since it will be possiable to figure out.

Hi

 

Interestingly I noticed when logging a note the other day the date format used there is MMMMMM/DD/YYYY, which is what I suggested early in this thread. Since it is already used on the site and I assume without it being an issue (no one has complained in this thread at least) it would seem a reasonable comprise to pull it across the whole site.

 

Regards

Andrew

[+Ex nihil]

Jeremy has it right. Choice is the thing and Jeremy I do think it is worth the effort in the interests of international relations. Every computer application I have that uses dates has a user choice, even my GPS and camera and sometimes I have to get everything into one format before they can talk to each other.

Whatever is decided it may be wise to keep it numerical, Excel spreadsheets don't always handle alpha/numericals predictably. Being in Australia we use dd/mm/yy or since Y2K, dd/mm/yyyy and yyyy-mm-dd is often used because Windows easily date sorts files this way. None of these formats present a problem because they go from small to big or big to small and they are obvious and computers can date sort them either way. The US convention is the only one that causes confusion because it goes big/small/bigger and computers can't sort them, but we can handle any way of doing it. After the September 11 event I think a lot of people around the planet were saying "Where do they get 911 from?' The US way is pretty much a peculiarity of the US and Canada and it does present problems to the rest of us.

Edited January 26, 2006 by Ex nihil

[+sbell111]

Oh.  Without the smiley, I agree 97.3%. 

How did you get that number? According to CIA Factbook (in July 2005) 4.6% of World population lived in US, that makes 95.4% of potential gc.com users being non-US.

I pulled it out of my, ummm, wallet.

 

I think you are missing the point using population totals as a basis for calculation. You should use users instead.

 

BTW, I still agree that it should be based on user preference or automatically decided based on the user's location.

[+sbell111]

... (from what I have read on this article here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_format )

I always laugh when someone links to wikipedia as a source. Any goof can post to wikipedia.

[+BigWhiteTruck]

... (from what I have read on this article here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_format )

I always laugh when someone links to wikipedia as a source. Any goof can post to wikipedia.

Any goof can post to any website.

 

Although most of them don't have thousands of benevolent users patrolling every edit

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/sbell111

 

Why don't you fill out this page with "I am awsome!" and hold your breath until it get's deleted. I promise you won't pass out.

[+BalkanSabranje]

Another comprise is writing the date MMMM/DD/YYYY, e.g., Jan 21, 2006. That is not just numbers but a spelt out month. This is easily readable by both sids of the fence.

 

Andrew

Spelling out the months would be a problem for those users/countries where the months have different names than our traditional (latin) ones.

[Aushiker]

Spelling out the months would be a problem for those users/countries where the months have different names than our traditional (latin) ones.

Hi

 

As already discussed previously in this thread this format is actually already used (see what comes up when you submit a log) without complaint (least not in this thread anyway) so it is not suggesting something that is not already done.

 

Secondly if pages are not transalated in other languages, then I assume it is read in English, so again it should not be a problem. If it is transalated then, the months should be translated ....

 

Andrew

[+ParrotRobAndCeCe]

Personally, I think most registered gc.com users would prefer their premium membership dollars go to improving functionality and fixing things that don't work (did someone say forum search?) rather than cosmetic enhancements to appease a vocal minority.

[+scottpa100]

But that's the thing - it is not just a cosmetic enhancement. We (Europe, Australia, New Zealand and other parts of the world) use the dd/MM/yy format everyday. For everything. Cheques (money checks), invoices, appointments, birthdays etc etc. So when you look at a date, you instantly interpret the way you use it everyday. Now it can be fairly easily distinguished when the date appears as 12/31/05. Everyone else on the globe looks at it and goes "31 months?" but when it is 12/11/05, do they mean the 12th of November or the 11th of December?

 

Looking at this months wallpaper available from the geocaching website, there appears to be a lot of German caches. Germans (along with other Europeans) would appreciate a dd/MM/yy format. Just because they are on the other side of the pond, their preference should not count? And that's what it should be. A preference. The people who want and use a mm/DD/yy format should be able to do so, and the people who want a dd/MM/yy format should be able to do so.

 

Are we just a vocal minority or are the silent masses afraid to speak out?

[+StarBrand]

Localized settings - user could customize - then we don't have to argue which is best. None are inheirently better than others - just different. Makes sense to show them in a way that is natural to your local custom. I'll have patience and see what Jeremy can cook up but I also agree that thier are more pressing issues.

[+ParrotRobAndCeCe]

Localized settings - user could customize - then we don't have to argue which is best. None are inheirently better than others - just different. Makes sense to show them in a way that is natural to your local custom. I'll have patience and see what Jeremy can cook up but I also agree that thier are more pressing issues.

So what's next? A "user preference" that lets you pick what language the site is displayed in? After all, isn't coding the site in English kind of ethnocentric when there are thousands of languages out there? How about we add a "user preference" to change the color of the pages? Or the font that it's displayed in?

 

This is a U.S. based web site, from a U.S. based company. I'm also rather confident that the vast majority of subscribers and paying subscribers are American. Why wouldn't it make sense that it is presented in U.S. standards, like just about every other U.S.-based website in the world?

[BRTango]

As the odd American, I have to agree with the Europeans and others on this one. I have always used dd/mm/yy. It's logical (to me at least) in that it goes from smallest component to largest component. I have the hardest time understanding the mm/dd/yy thing and feel the pain of the Europeans and others who don't use it regularly.

 

I completely agree with Jeremy and others that it should be an optional, localized setting, and will include that it should be consistent throughout the site.

 

PR mentions a user preference for language settings? Yes, if/when technology makes it easy enough and cost effect enough, the user should be able to select the language that they view the site in. This is done with commercial sites (even US Based ones) that can afford it (Amazon, CNN, MSN, etc...) so maybe we just have to wait until it is cost effective. Until then, the language issue isn't as great as the time/date stamp because believe it or not many of our international brethren speak english better than we do.

 

The main reason I would say that we appease our international players and make an effort to accomadate them is because I'd hate to see them migrate away from GC.com. I admit it is a completely selfish reason, but I do a good bit of international travel and I like to have one source to find the good caches and to keep track of them in one place.

 

This may be a US BASED site and a US BASED company, but it is anything but a US BASED game on a US BASED system (the internet). This is a large world and as the international audience of this website/game continues to grow they will either leave and create their own or continue to complain, unless changes are made.

[+scottpa100]

This is a U.S. based web site, from a U.S. based company.  I'm also rather confident that the vast majority of subscribers and paying subscribers are American.  Why wouldn't it make sense that it is presented in U.S. standards, like just about every other U.S.-based website in the world?

If that's the case, then the site will just stagnate. The internet is no longer the bastion of America that it was 5 years ago. By recognising that others work in different ways across the globe and being accommodating ensures that new blood, new interest and ultimately new subscribers still come along and hand over money.

 

geocaching.com is not the only GPS treasure hunting website in the world, but I know that geocaching.com is currently the best GPS treasure hunting website in the world. It can only remain the best if the bar is constantly raised to meet and exceed the expectations of the customer.

 

And meeting the needs of the customer and making money? That is the American Dream!

Edited January 26, 2006 by scottpa100

[+sbell111]

If that's the case, then the site will just stagnate. ...

I'm assuming that you forgot to put a smiley on your post. You may have noticed the this site continues to grow and grow. Jeremy and team are constantly adding functionality that continually makes it better. I seriously doubt that this date thing is the deal breaker that you are making it out to be. The fact that you joined such a 'US-centric' site and continue to use it bears this out.

 

[Aushiker]

Personally, I think most registered gc.com users would prefer their premium membership dollars go to improving functionality and fixing things that don't work (did someone say forum search?) rather than cosmetic enhancements to appease a vocal minority.

Hi

 

As a premium member, you are not in a position to speak on my behalf so please don't.

 

Secondly I pay to be a premium member for functionality on geocaching.com not the forums which are side activity.

 

As a paying member of Geoaching.com I feel that I am entitled to request functionality that affects me.

 

Sorry if that bothers you ...

 

Regards

Andrew

[+blackjack65]

I have always used dd/mm/yy. It's logical (to me at least) in that it goes from smallest component to largest component.

Actually, yyyy/mm/dd is much more logical in that it goes from largest component to smallest component, just like the hours go. (hh:mm:ss.xxx)

Milenium, Century, Decade, Year, Month, Day, Hour, Minute, Second, Fraction

[+blackjack65]

Oops, double posting.

Edited January 27, 2006 by blackjack65

[BRTango]

Good point about the largest to smallest... hadn't considered it in a comparison to how time is laid out. I could support it either way... they both make more sense then MM/DD/YY.

 

However I don't think we need to go so far as to add M/CC/DDD/YY/MM/DD/HH/SS/FF. That'd just be confusing

 

2/21/001/06/01/26/22/38/18/12

 

Yeah, that's just confusing

Edited January 27, 2006 by BRTango

[+JDandDD]

Actually its not just Europe or Australia alone, in Canada the standard is also dd/mm/yy. Canada is also metric. The US is actually, in terms of countries, the minority in terms of date format and imperial measurement.

 

JDandDD

[+ParrotRobAndCeCe]

Personally, I think most registered gc.com users would prefer their premium membership dollars go to improving functionality and fixing things that don't work (did someone say forum search?) rather than cosmetic enhancements to appease a vocal minority.

Hi

 

As a premium member, you are not in a position to speak on my behalf so please don't.

 

Hi.

 

What part of "I think" and "most ... users" did you misinterpret to mean "Aushiker thinks..."? Despite the fact that I am a stupid American, I think that my English is pretty clear and that I in no way claimed to speak for you.

[Aushiker]

Hi

 

Well you did imply that you new what "most registered gc.com users" felt of the date issue.

 

I appreciate you did not actually state which portion of the population of "registered gc.com users" you determine as "most" however you statement did indicate you are in a position to reflect their views on this topic

 

As a premium member and a registered member of gc.com, I did not to my knowledge participate in any process to elect you as spokesperson for "most registered gc.com users" so I consider my response appropriate.

 

As to your "stupid American" comment, please do not attribute statements to me which I did not make nor imply. I have no view on your nationality nor your intelligence. I only asked that you not speak or imply to speak or imply that you may know my views as a "registerd member of gc.com" on this on this or any other issue, nothing more, nothing less.

 

Regards

Andrew