Tb Hotel

March 9, 2006

Today I revisited a TB Hotel to place a geocoin and see what was new in town. I removed 4 TBs to move them along. I got a email from the owner, mad that i had depleted his Hotel Quota! I replied to his email that i was only interested in moving the TBs along and not worried about his quota being filled. Is moving the TBs along more important than hotels keeping it quotas? All TBs will be placed in the next few days so iam not trying to hog them. I would'nt want my TBs sitting in a hotel. What do you think about this?

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...df-e65aced6104d

March 9, 2006

Today I revisited a TB Hotel to place a geocoin and see what was new in town. I removed 4 TBs to move them along. I got a email from the owner, mad that i had depleted his Hotel Quota! I replied to his email that i was only interested in moving the TBs along and not worried about his quota being filled. Is moving the TBs along more important than hotels keeping it quotas? All TBs will be placed in the next few days so iam not trying to hog them. I would'nt want my TBs sitting in a hotel. What do you think about this?
http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...df-e65aced6104d

You are under absolutely no obligation to fulfill anyone's "quota". That is not to say you should completely disregard the cache owners rules for his/her cache, but the Travel-Bugs goals (usually to TRAVEL) should supercede the caches imposed "quota". If I find a cache with bugs that have been stuck there for ages and I know I can help the bugs toward their goal I will take them regardless of the desires of the cache owner; however, it is usually possible to move some bugs AND stay within the suggested cache guidelines. If one of my Travel-Bugs was languishing in a cache I would certainly want someone to take it and help move it along regardless of the cache's specific rules. Other folks may have very different opinions...

March 9, 2006

TB are meant to be moved, not sitting in a cache collecting dust! Strange that he has a "rule" that if there are no more than 5 TBs in the hotel you are not suppose to take any? Kinda defeats the purpose of the "TRAVEL" bug by not making it travel.

" Pete's Boot just wants to go to as many caches as possible over a great distance. This boot was made for walking. "

Sounds like this TB needed to be moved.

"It's mission is to visit all of the countries taking part in the 2004 Football World Cup. "

Ditto here too.

"Doug wants to travel the globe. Help Doug as he travels to distant lands"

Ditto here too!!

"Current GOAL: SEND THIS BUG HOME, ASAP! HOME IS SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA, BUT ANY CACHE IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA WILL DO. THANKS!"

Sounds like 4 bugs that needed to be moved. I thought geocaching was supposed to be fun?

March 9, 2006

TB are meant to be moved, not sitting in a cache collecting dust! Strange that he has a "rule" that if there are no more than 5 TBs in the hotel you are not suppose to take any? Kinda defeats the purpose of the "TRAVEL" bug by not making it travel.

" Pete's Boot just wants to go to as many caches as possible over a great distance. This boot was made for walking. "

Sounds like this TB needed to be moved.

"It's mission is to visit all of the countries taking part in the 2004 Football World Cup. "

Ditto here too.

"Doug wants to travel the globe. Help Doug as he travels to distant lands"

Ditto here too!!

"Current GOAL: SEND THIS BUG HOME, ASAP! HOME IS SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA, BUT ANY CACHE IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA WILL DO. THANKS!"

Sounds like 4 bugs that needed to be moved. I thought geocaching was supposed to be fun?

Amen, brother!

(sister?)

We should start sending out Travel-Bugs with the specific goal of filling up TB Hotels so that all the other bugs can keep moving!

:laughing:

Lazy vacation-bugs just lounging at the TB Hotel... Oh, so relaxing!

March 9, 2006

I hate TB Hotels... And that's about all I have to say.

22k · March 9, 2006

Travel bugs are not trade items.

That includes having to trade them for other bugs.

March 9, 2006

Sure don't want my bugs hanging around in some Hotel bar. I'd much prefer they'd be doing an overnighter in some outdoor camping cache. Move-it! please.

March 9, 2006

It's not a hotel owner's right to place a restriction on someone else's bug. If the hotel owner wants to keep a minimum number of bugs in his or her hotel, he or she can buy them from Groundspeak.

22k · March 9, 2006

Have them read a few threads.

Here are a few threads on the topic

TB Hotel Trade Rules, Leave one to take one?

Let's Ban Trabel Bug Hotels, Why make bug hotels? What's the point?

"Don't take a TB without leaving one" - WHY?

1.1k · March 9, 2006

First off I think any rule/policy that says to not take a TB if there are less than X TBs in a cache is stupid and I would ignore it. <rest of log post on why I wouldn't have taken all 4 of them deleted.>

TBs are meant to travel and you're helping them travel. Cache on.

8.8k · March 9, 2006

When you get enough responses in here from all the people who disagree with quotas (and it's a LOT) send the owner the link to this thread and all the other threads about TB Hotel quotas. The TB's do not belong to the cache owner, you did just fine.

March 9, 2006

Any time I see a TB cache with rules, you know what I do, take them all. I do it for one reason only. To T off the cache owner who has dumb rules. I advise you all do the same. :anicute:

22k · March 9, 2006

Any time I see a TB cache with rules, you know what I do, take them all. I do it for one reason only. To T off the cache owner who has dumb rules. I advise you all do the same.

So what you are saying is that the bug has less to do with the cache it's sitting in and more to do with traveling. Interesting concept. I'll have to give that some thought.

:anicute:

March 9, 2006

:anicute: I have an idea! Groundspeak can sell some new tags.

They can call them Sitting Bugs. :wub:

22k · March 9, 2006

I have an idea! Groundspeak can sell some new tags.

They can call them Sitting Bugs.

No, no, no. Keep Me bugs. aka geocoins.

Edited March 9, 2006 by BlueDeuce

March 10, 2006

Amen, brother!

(sister?)

We should start sending out Travel-Bugs with the specific goal of filling up TB Hotels so that all the other bugs can keep moving!

Lazy vacation-bugs just lounging at the TB Hotel... Oh, so relaxing!

I can see them now...Great big hulking TBs on steroids, so large that just one fills up the entire hotel, squashing the logbook to one side, and almost not allowing the lid to shut. They should be really ugly, too, I think. The objective, to see just how long they can camp out in the hotel. The cache owner should be thrilled to always have a full hotel. Right?

Seriously, I dislike these so-called hotels and have noticed that the caches that have the most TB action are those that accept drop-offs and pick-ups without quotas and rules.

22k · March 10, 2006

[

I can see them now...Great big hulking TBs on steroids, so large that just one fills up the entire hotel, squashing the logbook to one side, and almost not allowing the lid to shut. They should be really ugly, too, I think. The objective, to see just how long they can camp out in the hotel. The cache owner should be thrilled to always have a full hotel. Right?

Nooooooo, they should be big beautiful bugs. Like this.

All this and a bag of chips!

March 10, 2006

Ok, we'll see how long I can take the heat from this one... :rolleyes:

My Travel Bug Prisons shared public bookmark list.

Feel free to contact me and send me other caches with travel bug trading ratios or quotas that should be listed here. Also, I will happily remove any and all caches from this list if the cache owner abolishes their travel bug trading "rules"!

March 10, 2006

Any time I see a TB cache with rules, you know what I do, take them all. I do it for one reason only. To T off the cache owner who has dumb rules. I advise you all do the same.

So what you are saying is that the bug has less to do with the cache it's sitting in and more to do with traveling. Interesting concept. I'll have to give that some thought.

Well, Elf, I know you are a numbers hound and pay no thought to travel bugs or have any idea of their purpose, so I will let you know you hit it on the head. :smile: On a serious note, and for those who don't know, the previous statement is between friends and a joke, not a flame, here is the note I posted on the cache page in question. I am going to just copy/paste it as I expect it to be deleted...........

March 9 by 5¢ (708 found)

To whom this may concern, travel bugs are not trade items. The requirement on this cache only shows laziness on the cache owners part to not restock the travel bugs. Anyone who can help move a travel bug should not feel the need to not take one because they can't leave a travel bug. These actions required by the cache owner do not help travel bugs move, they actual impede their movement and cause the hotel to turn into a prison.

22k · March 10, 2006

Well, Elf, I know you are a numbers hound and pay no thought to travel bugs or have any idea of their purpose,

So when are we going to hit "The Journal"? I have a nine year old (who would walk over the prone body of most geocachers, including myself) that wants to get it off her list.

Do I hear event? Maybe June/July?

March 10, 2006

Well, Elf, I know you are a numbers hound and pay no thought to travel bugs or have any idea of their purpose,

So when are we going to hit "The Journal"? I have a nine year old (who would walk over the prone body of most geocachers, including myself) that wants to get it off her list.

Do I hear event? Maybe June/July?

Count Luckybear (if she can stay uninjured) in, lets take this to pm so we don't hijack the thread. Plus, I think we need another member. You should try to come to the 5 star frog splash (check the only event I am hosting), along with any one else reading this thread.

22k · March 10, 2006

Count Luckybear (if she can stay uninjured) in, lets take this to pm so we don't hijack the thread. Plus, I think we need another member. You should try to come to the 5 star frog splash (check the only event I am hosting), along with any one else reading this thread.

lets take this to pm so we don't hijack the thread

Sent.

cmilk has already deciphered the code. I told her to take a look and she brought it back in five minutes.

March 10, 2006

When an owner says that X number of TB or coins must stay in the cache are considered TB prisons. If an owner wants a TB hotel the it is of my opinion that they maintain it with TB's of their own.

2.4k · March 10, 2006

We should start sending out Travel-Bugs with the specific goal of filling up TB Hotels so that all the other bugs can keep moving!

I almost almost did that once... I was looking at old toys in the cellar for potential travel bugs, and came upon a set of plastic farm animals, including four sheep. There's a four-bug-minimum hotel near me, and I got the bright idea to turn these into TBs called "Sacrificial Lamb #1 - #4", with instructions to always stay in that cache so other bugs could travel feely.

But then I decided I didn't want to spend $20 worth of tags on the idea.

Edited March 10, 2006 by the hermit crabs

1.1k · March 10, 2006

My Travel Bug Prisons shared public bookmark list.

I have bookmarked your bookmark . Excellent idea. I'll check the hotels around me and see if any of them have restrictions.

2.4k · March 10, 2006

My Travel Bug Prisons shared public bookmark list.

Have you considered making the list Public, so that it appears on the cache pages of the prisons? (Or is that too provocative?)

March 10, 2006

Hotels are fine -- Prisons are not

March 10, 2006

I almost almost did that once... I was looking at old toys in the cellar for potential travel bugs, and came upon a set of plastic farm animals, including four sheep. There's a four-bug-minimum hotel near me, and I got the bright idea to turn these into TBs called "Sacrificial Lamb #1 - #4", with instructions to always stay in that cache so other bugs could travel feely.

But then I decided I didn't want to spend $20 worth of tags on the idea.

After I had read through an older thread where the Hermit Crabs made the Get Out of (TB) Jail Free TB, I thought that this would be a fantastic thing to do with your missing/stolen/lost TBs - especially if both tags had already gone missing..

Laminate the Get Out of Jail Free card (or use the sheep) and add the TB tag number to them so they can be logged - if they disappear, no problem, just redo it again...and again...and again...

2.4k · March 10, 2006

I almost almost did that once... I was looking at old toys in the cellar for potential travel bugs, and came upon a set of plastic farm animals, including four sheep. There's a four-bug-minimum hotel near me, and I got the bright idea to turn these into TBs called "Sacrificial Lamb #1 - #4", with instructions to always stay in that cache so other bugs could travel feely.

But then I decided I didn't want to spend $20 worth of tags on the idea.

After I had read through an older thread where the Hermit Crabs made the Get Out of (TB) Jail Free TB, I thought that this would be a fantastic thing to do with your missing/stolen/lost TBs - especially if both tags had already gone missing..

Laminate the Get Out of Jail Free card (or use the sheep) and add the TB tag number to them so they can be logged - if they disappear, no problem, just redo it again...and again...and again...

You're right -- that would be an excellent use for a lot of those TB numbers that are in graveyards or "unknown location", which would otherwise never be used again.

March 10, 2006

Have you considered making the list Public, so that it appears on the cache pages of the prisons? (Or is that too provocative?)

The list is public, it should appear on the cache pages of the prisons (although the cache owners can delete it from there I think, right?). It is provocative, but I'm willing to try it for awhile and see where it goes.

2.4k · March 10, 2006

Have you considered making the list Public, so that it appears on the cache pages of the prisons? (Or is that too provocative?)

The list is public, it should appear on the cache pages of the prisons (although the cache owners can delete it from there I think, right?). It is provocative, but I'm willing to try it for awhile and see where it goes.

oops, you're right; I thought it wasn't public because on the one I looked at, I didn't see it on the cache page -- but it is listed in the complete list of bookmarks in the "more..." link, which I hadn't noticed. (I don't think that cache owners can delete it, unless Groundspeak made a change in this functionailty since it was first implemented.)

March 10, 2006

My Travel Bug Prisons bookmark list is up to 54 listings now from a little bit of all over. I have some more caches to look up their policies as well.

I think the good news I can report here after viewing lots and lots of travel bug hotel cache listings is that there do indeed appear to be a lot of former travel bug prisons still operating today without their old restrictive travel bug trading rules! Based on the obviously-updated cache descriptions, it looks like their owners have "seen the light"!

In fact, many of the caches without trading rules actually have more travellers moving through them than the prisons!

March 10, 2006

When you get enough responses in here from all the people who disagree with quotas (and it's a LOT) send the owner the link to this thread and all the other threads about TB Hotel quotas. The TB's do not belong to the cache owner, you did just fine.

Add me to the growing list of cachers that disagree with the quota. TB hotels should eitherbe empty or full. If it's full, empty it. If it's empty, unload yours for the next guy. Guaranteed to move.

March 11, 2006

After seeing all these deals on TB Hotels/Prisons. If I do a TB Hotel in the future, I plan on doing the opposite of it being a TB Prison and that is only allowing a TB Hotel Capacity of 5, if a cacher comes up on this TB Hotel and finds it to be full but wants to put a new bug in he or she must take another bug out of there.

This takes care of 2 problems

1. It helps make sure bugs have to get moved along by rule.

2. It helps keep the Ammo box from being over stuffed of TB's

Another thing that I would call a TB Prision is having it as a non traditional cache such as a puzzle, multi, or level 5 cache. Please don't put any of my TB or Geocoins on that one TB Prision that I saw, is on a island in the middle of a lake.

March 11, 2006

Another thing that I would call a TB Prision is having it as a non traditional cache such as a puzzle, multi, or level 5 cache. Please don't put any of my TB or Geocoins on that one TB Prision that I saw, is on a island in the middle of a lake.

This is something that travel bug and geocoin owners probably need to state clearly in their bug's description and goals, since for some bugs and many geocoins -- where there is the fear that someone might like them a little too much and decide to keep them rather than moving them on to another cache -- the owners would actually prefer them to be in harder caches so that there is a greater chance they will keep moving.

Also, unlike ratios and minimum quotas, putting them in harder caches doesn't make an arbitrary rule imprisoning a travel bug, it just makes it more challenging to find them.

22k · March 11, 2006

In my opinion Geocoins don't pass the Snoogan's Clinic criteria, but that's just the way it is.

I think the number one rule of Traveler's is: Don't release anything you are not willing to lose.

putting them in harder caches doesn't make an arbitrary rule imprisoning a travel bug, it just makes it more challenging to find them.

Completely agree.* A well placed bug can enhance both the cache and the bug.

*Harvesting bugs against their goal and placing in a difficult cache makes it a prison.

March 12, 2006

I have been a non-posting member for about a month. My feelings are, as long as you are actually helping a TB on it's mission, by all means do it! If I could help a bunch of TB's on thier way at a hotel, I would take all that I could help.

22k · March 12, 2006

I have been a non-posting member for about a month. My feelings are, as long as you are actually helping a TB on it's mission, by all means do it! If I could help a bunch of TB's on thier way at a hotel, I would take all that I could help.

You got it on your first try.

Good for you. :rolleyes:

March 13, 2006

I took the time to read each post here before I reply as well. I completely agree, if you come across the TB regardless of the cache (hotel, prison, or regular) take it and help it move.

I've been saddened recently in the LACK of TB's in caches. I keep releasing mine, but really don't find many. I'm a happy cacher, willing to help TB's (and geocoins) get on their merry way regardless of cache "rules" or "guidelines".

March 13, 2006

My Travel Bug Prisons shared public bookmark list.

Have you considered making the list Public, so that it appears on the cache pages of the prisons? (Or is that too provocative?)

He chose to do just that except he forgot to check his facts first and slammed my hotel which has always allowed anyone to take or leave as many as they wish. I really appreciate the link on my listing to help spread his misguided efforts.

Shebear

Edited March 13, 2006 by Shebear & Storminn

1.1k · March 13, 2006

Shebear: Was your cache page recently updated? I don't see anything on it that would have caused it to be listed as a prison. In fact it seems like an extremely safe hotel due to its location.

22k · March 13, 2006

Shebear's Lair

Other than it being a bit restrictive due to being a members only cache, it looks fine to me.

(although you say that people can take as many as they want, you do hint at not leaving it empty)

Cache on, I say.

March 13, 2006

As indicated in my bookmark list description, if you have suggested updates for my list, just contact me from the link there (which is really just a link to email me thru gc.com). Regardless of whether the cache description has been updated or whether I just screwed up, I'll review and remove if appropriate. (Or add if you send me new ones I have not found!)

As was the case for Shebear's Lair, Shebear contacted me, I reread the cache description, saw no restrictive trading rules on it, and removed it right away.

If it was my mistake for listing it in the first place, my apologies. If it was not the owner's intention to impose restrictive trading rules, but the original wording on the cache description was unclear, so they updated it and clarified that, thanks!

My original Travel Bug Prisons list filled up, so there is now a second bookmark list, creatively entitled Travel Bug Prisons 2.

If you find these lists useful, please feel free to rate them as useful. If you don't, you are of course welcome to rate them that was as well. If anything, the ratings give some feel for where the community stands on the issue anyway.

(Also, sorry for making all the links in the bookmark list description be Metamark URL-shortened URL redirects, but the description is limited to 1KB, and I was well over the limit, so reducing all the URLs was the only way to get it under 1KB, since I'd already reduced the text to be about as brief and abbreviated as possible.)

March 13, 2006

Let me just say this. This cache has NEVER been a TB prison, and for someone to arbitrarily list it as such is pathetic. I've been to this cache many times to drop/trade/take a TB and there's never been bugs that "languish" there for long. Maybe a few weeks at most, which isn't very long. The cache owner has never had a problem with swaps that I've heard of either. I'll agree with the sentiment that geocaching is supposed to be fun so if that "fun" includes only taking 6 out of 7 TB's and leaving one for someone else, why not do it? Especially in a high traffic cache like this one, it means the bug will be there for a few more days. So what? Also, I'd say that in the nature of "fun" no one should be able to list other people's caches as "prisons" and bookmark them for the entire community to see without any first hand knowledge. THAT is a joke.

BC Tripper

Edited March 13, 2006 by BC Tripper

March 14, 2006

i created this cache http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...10-d5aae19ced75 in direct response to this cache http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...34-0123c0096829 (read the entire description and logs). i'll only say that it's not my fault some cachers read into the logs what they "BELIEVE" i was saying. i was only having a good time caching like i hope we all do.

oh, and i'm glad to see i'm not on your list kelly@9.

March 15, 2006

Let me just say this. This cache has NEVER been a TB prison, and for someone to arbitrarily list it as such is pathetic. I've been to this cache many times to drop/trade/take a TB and there's never been bugs that "languish" there for long. Maybe a few weeks at most, which isn't very long. The cache owner has never had a problem with swaps that I've heard of either. I'll agree with the sentiment that geocaching is supposed to be fun so if that "fun" includes only taking 6 out of 7 TB's and leaving one for someone else, why not do it? Especially in a high traffic cache like this one, it means the bug will be there for a few more days. So what? Also, I'd say that in the nature of "fun" no one should be able to list other people's caches as "prisons" and bookmark them for the entire community to see without any first hand knowledge. THAT is a joke.

BC Tripper

I think the part that people are considering this cache to be a prison is this line in the cache page......."so please don't take travel bugs unless there are more than five currently in the house. If you don't have any travel bugs to trade; feel free to sign the log, but the cache should only have travellers in it."

2.6k · March 15, 2006

Let me just say this. This cache has NEVER been a TB prison, and for someone to arbitrarily list it as such is pathetic. I've been to this cache many times to drop/trade/take a TB and there's never been bugs that "languish" there for long. Maybe a few weeks at most, which isn't very long. The cache owner has never had a problem with swaps that I've heard of either. I'll agree with the sentiment that geocaching is supposed to be fun so if that "fun" includes only taking 6 out of 7 TB's and leaving one for someone else, why not do it? Especially in a high traffic cache like this one, it means the bug will be there for a few more days. So what? Also, I'd say that in the nature of "fun" no one should be able to list other people's caches as "prisons" and bookmark them for the entire community to see without any first hand knowledge. THAT is a joke.

BC Tripper

Every TB hotel with a capacity rule is a prison. If somebody could help six on the way and only helped five because of the cache owner's policy, the rules of the cache prevented one from moving. Plus, gathering that many TB's together in one place -- and, in the case of a TB Hotel, usually a very muggle-convenient place -- puts them all at risk. Not acceptable.

Caching may be about "fun" but TB's are about TB owners. Period. No cache owner has a right to impose his rules on the TB owner's game.

March 16, 2006

One of the TB hotels on that list is near me, I don't think the Rural Route Bug Box should be there, it does have a rule, but we have cachers in our area move bugs through it frequently, I've rarely seen a bug stay there long. The owners of this cache are very good about moving bugs on that stay there too long.

Fact is any cache can become a prison for a travel bug if it's not visited often enough, I guess we should just stop allowing TBs to be placed in remote caches or ones not visited often enough too.

22k · March 16, 2006

If a travel bug hotel is in a good spot for the quick and easy exchange of travel bugs, then an empty hotel won't stay empty long. People are always looking for a convenient place to drop bugs off. The owner of a well-placed hotel should actually be pleased if the hotel is occasionally empty, since it shows that the hotel is serving its purpose: to get bugs moving quickly. And if a hotel does stay empty for long periods of time without the cache owner continually raiding other caches to re-stock it, then it's not a good place for a travel bug hotel.

24.7k · March 16, 2006

Any time I see a TB cache with rules, you know what I do, take them all. I do it for one reason only. To T off the cache owner who has dumb rules. I advise you all do the same.

So what you are saying is that the bug has less to do with the cache it's sitting in and more to do with traveling. Interesting concept. I'll have to give that some thought.

Well, Elf, I know you are a numbers hound and pay no thought to travel bugs or have any idea of their purpose, so I will let you know you hit it on the head. On a serious note, and for those who don't know, the previous statement is between friends and a joke, not a flame, here is the note I posted on the cache page in question. I am going to just copy/paste it as I expect it to be deleted...........

March 9 by 5¢ (708 found)

To whom this may concern, travel bugs are not trade items. The requirement on this cache only shows laziness on the cache owners part to not restock the travel bugs. Anyone who can help move a travel bug should not feel the need to not take one because they can't leave a travel bug. These actions required by the cache owner do not help travel bugs move, they actual impede their movement and cause the hotel to turn into a prison.

Your sort of out in left field here.

TB Hotel rules don't take priority over someone who can help a bug along. We agree there.

But taking bugs just to torque off the TB Hotel owner doesn't serve the TBs purpose any more than the hotel did. Plus cache owners shouldn't go out with a Press Gang looking for TBs to stock a bug hotel. That's also highly frowned upon.

As for the OP, you are good to go.

Tb Hotel

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