Trespassing To Get A Cache...

[+megatherian]

I was out geocaching with my daughter today and we wanted to try a tough one today in the mountains. The cache stated that "you" are responsible for your own entrance to the cache but then suggested using a power line right of way.

 

I admit that I didn't do a much research before hand on the laws and made the assumption I could walk the power line path since it's a right of way. After reading tonight I'm not so sure that was correct. In any case as we were hiking up the mountain we saw signs that said no trespassing all along the sides of the ROW. It seemed they were meant to keep people out of the surrounding lands (rather than off the ROW). We got to the top of a ridge and then I was able to get more of a feel of where exactly we'd need to go to get to the cache. Clearly we would have needed to cross the line into private property and trespassed to get to the cache. So we turned back because I don't feel comfortable trespassing and I certainly didn't want to teach my daughter it's ok to break the law. This is a common cache in this area though with lots of finds - including families.

 

I drove around for at least an hour before we finally decided on the power line route that 99% of the people seem to take - and we decided on that entrance because everywhere else would have either walked us through someone's backyard or had us go into an area clearly marked "no trespassing".

 

Am I just being a "prude" or does trespassing just go along with the geocaching? How do you feel about trespassing to get a cache?

[+Airmapper]

Am I just being a "prude" or does trespassing just go along with the geocaching? How do you feel about trespassing to get a cache?

 

No, trespassing and Geocaching should never mix. Sometimes it happens, and that where the community self regulating comes in. I once passed on two caches, and tactfully noted the situation that they were on private property on the cache logs. A couple weeks later both were "archived" or removed from the site for finding purposes. The land they were on was sold and there was no longer permission for the caches to be there.

 

If I know better, I won't trespass to get to a cache, most of the time there is another way in, and I'll try to find it. If in doubt, contact the owner, and you might get info on how to approach the cache, or find permission is given. If not, then it's time to contact a local reviewer with your concerns.

Edited March 12, 2006 by Airmapper

[CoyoteRed]

Hopefully there is a path into the area that doesn't involve trespassing. That is what you need to find. If there isn't one then there should be a clear indication on the cache page of what you are supposed to be doing.

 

If I ever come across a "No Trespassing" sign, I obey.

[+reveritt]

I have several times walked away from a search because it appeared that I would have to trespass. It's not something I want to do--especially with a kid along.

 

Cache hiders need to consider how the finders will get to the cache. It there is not an obvious and legal route, the hider should post additional waypoints or instructions to help the finder avoid trespassing.

[+briansnat]

Its not a part of our sport and any cache that requires trespassing will not knowingly be listed on this site.

 

That being said, there are many caches that you really need to do your homework to find the legal access point. Some owners will publish the coordinates of the legal access point or parking, but many don't.

[+Harry Dolphin]

The utility owns the Right of Way across the property. The utility does not own the land. In many, or most, cases the land belongs to the adjacent property owners. Do not assume that you are permitted to walk on the Right of Way.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

I simply will not trespass to reach a cache or to place a cache, and I have often chosen not to use a potential hide site because there was too much chance that seekers might accidentally end up trespassing on nearby posted private property. Most cachers seem to behave the same as do I, and this is also the ethic of the caching community, that trespassing must be avoided at all costs. Having said that, it is is of course true that some members of any community do tend to ignore the rules, and luckily, they are a minority in our community.

[numeniusaqua]

Its not a part of our sport and any cache that requires trespassing will not knowingly be listed on this site.

 

... Mmm - In 2004 I reported a cache in my area where I went with my family and were warned off by the farmer with a shotgun. Sure enough, when I checked on the map, the co-ords given are right off the ROW and on private land. Checked again with a friend and he took his GPS too as well as mine - definitely the co-ords are on private land. landowner denies all knowledge and categoricaly denies giving permission. I posted a comment and informed Geocaching.com - especially given the shotgun incident and me having a young child with me - after all, this is a family pastime - but the cache is still there and the listing was not removed! Funny Farm (Northumberland) - N 55° 14.497 W 001° 46.584 . The owner of the cache cast doubt on my navigation. I'm a qualified navigator (sea) now and was an artillery forward obs officer some years ago - so if my nav was that wrong I'd have shelled one or two wrong places! ... I never did!!!

[+Deliveryguy428]

If the cache can not be reached without having to cross over into no trespassing areas then the cache needs to be reported to the local reviewer ASAP.

 

If there a way in, the owner needs to be more responsible then just saying, find your own way in

[+Mule Ears]

Its not a part of our sport and any cache that requires trespassing will not knowingly be listed on this site.

 

That being said, there are many caches that you really need to do your homework to find the legal access point. Some owners will publish the coordinates of the legal access point or parking, but many don't.

 

If there's a trick to finding legal access to the cache area, it is only responsible to include it in the description. I don't buy the notion that researching land ownership should be left to each seeker as part of his route-finding. It's an invitation to trouble with landowners and a source of hard feelings among cachers. (I.e., those who are rightly reluctant to trespass resent the apparent ease with which scofflaws can snag the cache.)

[+Mudfrog]

If there a way in, the owner needs to be more responsible then just saying, find your own way in

 

Yes, this seems a bit vague to me too, but some hiders want this to be part of the difficulty in finding their cache. The cache owner isn't under any obligation to furnish the extra information. I saw above where someone suggested giving extra coordinates, and/or directions for getting to the cache. but this should be left up to the cache owner.

 

If the cache is in an area where getting to it legally is hard to figure out, then some wording such as "you don't have to tresspass to find the cache",, or other variation could be included. Still, it doesnt have to be!

 

Get with the cache owner to express your concerns and he/she will proably work with you on them. Talk with other cachers that have done the cache. If it still sounds like there is a problem then you can always go back and log an SBA.

[+ibycus]

It seemed they were meant to keep people out of the surrounding lands (rather than off the ROW). We got to the top of a ridge and then I was able to get more of a feel of where exactly we'd need to go to get to the cache. Clearly we would have needed to cross the line into private property and trespassed to get to the cache.

 

How close were you to the cache? The reason I ask, is quite often some unexpected little trail will appear out of nowhere, the fence line will veer off one side, and you'll be able to get to the cache. Fence jumping in to private property is definitely a very bad idea, but until you've done the full circuit around the cache on lands you're allowed to be on, it can be difficult to conclude with any certainty that there isn't legal access. Personally unless I'm within 100m of the cache site, and my GPS is pointing me straight at a fence line, I wouldn't assume I had to jump the fence.

 

I remember once a while back I went looking for GCJ4Z1. I was only something like 1.5km away from the cache, so I decided I'd 'follow the arrow' and the trails that looked like they'd take me to the cache cache site. This worked well until I was about 500m from the cache, and I hit a fence line. Followed the fence a couple of km in one direction, hit an escarpment, and then turned away and followed the river back where I came from. It was a heck of an adventure, but I didn't find the cache.

 

Later when I got back and read the cache page, I found that I was meant to be going on a particular circular route, which started out going directly away from the cache. That trail took me through the fence line and right to the cache.

 

Moral of the story? Even at 500m to the cache, I wouldn't conclude that you'd have to jump the fence to get there.

 

(Pretty sure the fence was for the wildlife, the trail was an official provincial parks trail, so I know I was allowed to be there)

[+ibycus]

Oh, and if you're concerned the first thing I'd do now, is contact the cache owner and ask for more pointers on how to get to the cache.

[+Team Cotati]

Treaspassing doesn't "go along" with any activity, it is illegal.

[Team Firebird]

I have been to one cache that is hidden in the commons area of a neighboorhood. It says on signs everywhere "Members Only." On the cache page it warns about this, and says that you are a guest of the homeowner. The cache owner lives in the neighboorhood. If the cache owner didn't live in the neighboorhood, it would have been tresspassing and I would not have gotten the cache.

 

I think that it purley depends on the person, and this is my view.

[+Eye Cacher]

I am in a similar community, and placed a cache in a common area where there was a similar posted sign. Someone sent a note to the reviewer, and they made me archive the cache. I understood why, and I simply removed it and placed it in a public park. No biggie. After further thought, I decided I didn't like the idea of assuming that anyone there to find the cache was a "guest" of mine. I don't believe that to be the intention of the "guest" policy.

[+YpsiChris]

I pretty much agree with the rest here. Unless the cache owner has specifically stated that permission was granted or that the cache owner him/herself owns the land to the cache, I will always try to find the legal way in, or I will just leave it (and send a note to the owner).

Edited March 12, 2006 by YpsiChris

[+megatherian]

Thanks for the replies, it's encouraging to know trespassing isn't considered the norm. I'm new at this and was afraid I might have needed to scrap a new hobby

 

I'll contact the cache owner but I'm a bit skeptical that there will be a legit way to get to there or even that "there" itself is in a permissible location. The hour I spent driving I completely circled the mountain (or is it a hill....) including every side street off the main roads and there wasn't any discernible way to get to the cache without trespassing. I hiked as far as I could along the power lines (which as stated I now think was trespassing as well) and looking at topo 3D etc it's clear the cache is off the ROW into the area marked "no trespassing"

 

I did check into every entrance logged by other cachers and clearly they were all posted no trespassing as well. It seems most people in this area at least don't really care to much about the signs.

 

I'm trying not to make assumptions here and I've done research on multiple maps for entrances. As far as I can determine (without trying to find the land owner myself) the cache itself is on private property. Being new at this I just don't want to cause problems if it's not my place especially since this has been a fairly popular cache. Not to mention I live in a small town and I'd hate to make "geoenemies".

 

Ultimately if people have to break the law to do this hobby then it won't be long before there are laws banning the whole thing. So I'll do my part and contact the cache owner and see where it goes.

[+reveritt]

Treaspassing doesn't "go along" with any activity, it is illegal.

It goes along nicely with breaking and entering.

[+ZackJones]

This Cache Listing does a very good job of telling you how to get to the cache without trespassing.

[Luckless]

Well I've been on private property, not intentionally. Basically I missed a trailhead and started down something that looked like a trail, but was neighboring property. Another time I was on the wrongside of the river looking for the trail and was directed back to where I should have been by a disgruntled land manager. Don't really know how this could have been avoided since I was traveling as the crow flies. Just have to be more aware I guess that I'm probably in the wrong place.

[+wimseyguy]

Treaspassing doesn't "go along" with any activity, it is illegal.

Well except for pool hopping of course. But now that I have my own and I'm all grown up older, it isn't as attractive as it was back in my teens.

[+Renegade Knight]

Thanks for the replies, it's encouraging to know trespassing isn't considered the norm. I'm new at this and was afraid I might have needed to scrap a new hobby

...

 

It can be tough to find the way to the cache. There is one cache that stumped me for the better part of a year trying to figure out the way to the cache. When I finally found the way in I learned that prior to 9/11 you coudl have driven to within a quarter mile. After 9/11 the Army Corps of Engineers bocked access because this was a back way in to the dam (If you tresspassed...) for vehicles and so the hike was longer. I really don't remember the cache itself, just all the adventures trying to get to it.

[+Confucius' Cat]

NO TRESPASSING

(no brainer) (at least you would think so)

It is AMAZING how often this topic comes up and how many caches appear to require it.

[+megatherian]

Well I thought I'd give a final update on this. It doesn't appear the cache was ever reviewed (though I did find a reviewer that has done a few in this area). I contacted the owner and they are not the original placer of the cache and they are not aware of any special permission given to cachers to be on the property. The advice they gave me was to just not worry about the signs.

 

I feel like I'm in a bit of a dilemma now. Being so new at this I feel a bit awkward about rocking the boat. It's a very popular cache in this small town I live in so it would seem most people here don't care about trespassing or not. Ethically it really bothers me though and I know it's this kind of thing that gives geocaching a bad name and ultimately can lead to city wide bans. Do I really want to be the new guy that shuts down a cache that everyone seems to like? If the cache is suddenly archived right after I contacted the owner it's going to be pretty obvious who the "spoil sport" was.

 

What would you do?

Edited March 14, 2006 by megatherian

[Luckless]

If it makes me feel uneasy I wouldn't do it. I'd just move on to the next one.

Edited March 14, 2006 by Luckless

[+briansnat]

I feel like I'm in a bit of a dilemma now. Being so new at this I feel a bit awkward about rocking the boat. It's a very popular cache in this small town I live in so it would seem most people here don't care about trespassing or not. Ethically it really bothers me though and I know it's this kind of thing that gives geocaching a bad name and ultimately can lead to city wide bans. Do I really want to be the new guy that shuts down a cache that everyone seems to like? If the cache is suddenly archived right after I contacted the owner it's going to be pretty obvious who the "spoil sport" was.

 

If you feel strongly about it, an e-mail to your local reviewer might be in order. Caches that require trespassing are not good for this sport.