Adopt A Yjtb Or Wjtb

June 23, 2006

I have several Jeep Tb's in my collection. Rather than just outright keeping them out of circulation, is there any way that I could adopt them? For example, I have a WJTB in my own Jeep and let people log it when they see me at a cache or event. I'm sure I'm asking for flak from people who will say that I'm a hoarder, but I am really just looking to see if it can be done.

22k · June 23, 2006

That is a great idea.

Ok, I wanted that part out there first. Here's the rest.

I can understand the "release'em and let people log'em" part of the contest. But looking at the long term you don't want to release a bunch of jeeps just to have people hold them so they can adopt them later.

Do you sell a bunch of jeeps so that people can release them and finder can enter the contest? Welllll, probably not.

Giving this a huge amount of thought (Ten minutes) it would be nice to be able to purchase the real toy jeep with the icon, in addition to the contest released jeeps.

Edited June 23, 2006 by BlueDeuce

June 23, 2006

I have several Jeep Tb's in my collection...............I'm sure I'm asking for flak from people who will say that I'm a hoarder.................

Yep, using the words several, TB's, and my collection in the same sentence is a Geofelony.

June 23, 2006

Wouldn't keeping the WJTB and YJTB be just like taking ay other cacher's travel bug and keeping it? I think it is stealing none theless.

22k · June 23, 2006

Many jeeps have been Kept.

How many of those are being shared with other cachers?

June 23, 2006

Not looking for the nasty responses here, just an answer if possible from TPTB. If you'd like to log my Jeep TB, email me for the #. It is technically still in circulation. I like that "Geofelony" term though. cute. But wouldn't it be "Geolarceny" though?

22k · June 23, 2006

If you didn't want nasty responses you should have emailed gc.com directly.

I happen to agree with your idea. It's worth discussing.

I do disagree with the email me for the number project you have going. Shouldn't there be some part of geocaching involved to claim a Jeep?

Virtual bugs get locked down.

Edited June 23, 2006 by BlueDeuce

3.3k · June 23, 2006

Not looking for the nasty responses here, just an answer if possible from TPTB. If you'd like to log my Jeep TB, email me for the #. It is technically still in circulation. I like that "Geofelony" term though. cute. But wouldn't it be "Geolarceny" though?

Here is where cachers get ticked off. The Jeep doesn't belong to you.

22k · June 23, 2006

Not looking for the nasty responses here, just an answer if possible from TPTB. If you'd like to log my Jeep TB, email me for the #. It is technically still in circulation. I like that "Geofelony" term though. cute. But wouldn't it be "Geolarceny" though?

Here is where cachers get ticked off. The Jeep doesn't belong to you.

That is the reasoning for not holding a Jeep Tb today. But come on, these things go missing faster than cupcakes at diet camp.

The only thing I don't like about Jeeps is this bizarre value we place on them. Hardly anybody gets bent out of shape for a bug I pay for out of my own pocket and it disappears from the first cache it's place in.

Some corp gets a bulk rate discount for advertising and we end up calling people thieves.

zygote2k offered an idea for solution. Got a better one?

edit: missing two s's

Edited June 23, 2006 by BlueDeuce

6.5k · June 23, 2006

Not looking for the nasty responses here, just an answer if possible from TPTB. If you'd like to log my Jeep TB, email me for the #. It is technically still in circulation. I like that "Geofelony" term though. cute. But wouldn't it be "Geolarceny" though?

Really? Which jeep is this?

virtual TBs are frowned upon...

June 23, 2006

Not looking for the nasty responses here, just an answer if possible from TPTB. If you'd like to log my Jeep TB, email me for the #. It is technically still in circulation. I like that "Geofelony" term though. cute. But wouldn't it be "Geolarceny" though?

That should be "GeoGrandTheftAuto" since a Jeep is involved!

1.4k · June 23, 2006

Not looking for the nasty responses here, just an answer if possible from TPTB. If you'd like to log my Jeep TB, email me for the #. It is technically still in circulation. I like that "Geofelony" term though. cute. But wouldn't it be "Geolarceny" though?

"Some corp gets a bulk rate discount for advertising and we end up calling people thieves."

Since it's a big corp, and it's a small item, that makes it ok to steal it ??

June 23, 2006

I actually emailed GC.com and never got a reply. So here I am asking this question on the forums and ducking the occasional bullet flying towards me from left field. As I stated before, the WJTB is on my '05 Jeep. It can be logged if you see me at a cache or event. Besides, the contest is over. What difference does it make if I have a few in my posession? You can't win anymore with them. So if TPTB can help out here, I can get an answer and close the topic.

22k · June 23, 2006

"Some corp gets a bulk rate discount for advertising and we end up calling people thieves."

Since it's a big corp, and it's a small item, that makes it ok to steal it ??

First of all that's quoting me out of context.

Secondly, stealing? The guy is holding on to a toy, taking it to events and letting other people log it. I'm not real clear on the theft part of that. Is there some time limit law I'm not aware of?

edited to add the second part

Edited June 23, 2006 by BlueDeuce

22k · June 23, 2006

I actually emailed GC.com and never got a reply. So here I am asking this question on the forums and ducking the occasional bullet flying towards me from left field. As I stated before, the WJTB is on my '05 Jeep. It can be logged if you see me at a cache or event. Besides, the contest is over. What difference does it make if I have a few in my posession? You can't win anymore with them. So if TPTB can help out here, I can get an answer and close the topic.

Well, I wish you luck. Unfortunately if they didn't respond to your email so I'd be surprised if you got a response here. I'm glad to see that jeep survived in the wild as long as it did. Most just disappear and nobody can log them.

Personally I think being able to purchase and own a TB with either current jeep icon would be a benefit. Future cachers get to log it and nobody has to call anybody names. But I don’t see any support for the idea from the other posters. Too bad.

Get ready for a new cycle of angst, the 2006 jeeps are coming.

8.8k · June 23, 2006

The Jeeps belong to Jeep. The only way to adopt a TB or a cache is if the owner wants to adopt it out. Ask Jeep. But my suggestion is to let the Jeeps go, they aren't yours. And the fact that you have several really makes me wonder WHY!? Let them all go. The contest ended long ago, the prizes have been awarded, it's over. Pass them on.

Rumor has it the new Jeep TB's are coming out and they will be Liberty's and they will be green. The Jeep site is announcing it on June 27th. So let those yellow and white jeeps go, they are so yesterday!

Pick them up, enter the contest, and move them along. That's the name of the game.

I'm with Blue Deuce, I don't understand the fascination with a $2 toy.

And please, do email me the number of the jeep you want to let people log. ASAP.

June 23, 2006

For shame holding a TB like this...

3/21/2006 zygote2k retrieved it from Box of Stuff in the Woods Virginia [visit log]

I'm keeping this Jeep TB with my 2005 Willys Jeep.

June 23, 2006

the WJTB is on my '05 Jeep

What??? Since when? All the Jeep TB's are the property of Jeep, and the released them into the wild as TB's, with the clearly stated intent to move!

I realize it's only a Jeep, but that's basically theft!

22k · June 23, 2006

the WJTB is on my '05 Jeep
What??? Since when? All the Jeep TB's are the property of Jeep, and the released them into the wild as TB's, with the clearly stated intent to move!

I realize it's only a Jeep, but that's basically theft!

So what do you think about adoption or being able to purchase a tag number with a Jeep icon?

24.7k · June 23, 2006

the WJTB is on my '05 Jeep
What??? Since when? All the Jeep TB's are the property of Jeep, and the released them into the wild as TB's, with the clearly stated intent to move!

I realize it's only a Jeep, but that's basically theft!

So what do you think about adoption or being able to purchase a tag number with a Jeep icon?

I think if the Jeep folks want to adopt them out they should choose. I would hope it's to the folks who have spent time and money to get them in circulation so others can find them and participate in the contest.

Next time around I think I'll write down the TB numbers so I can see who kept them from distribution events before they ever got circulated.

June 23, 2006

I have a YJTB that I have had since Feb. Is it my intention to keep it as a collector item? No. Since I haven't released it yet am I a bad person? I would hope not. I picked it up 02/06. It has a whopping 56 miles on it. When I place it this summer that will add about 250 miles to it. I am not going to place it in a 1/1 cache. I have somewhere special to me that it is going to. If you want to flame me for holding it so long, I have applied my asbestos undies.

Here is a related thread in the NW forums.

I'll ask the same question here that I did in the NW forums thread. I wonder how many of the jeep TB's were never released, and kept by those trusted to distribute them?

9.1k · June 23, 2006

I'll ask the same question here that I did in the NW forums thread. I wonder how many of the jeep TB's were never released, and kept by those trusted to distribute them?

People like you are why it's quite likely that a different distribution method will be used for this year's contest.

June 23, 2006

I'll ask the same question here that I did in the NW forums thread. I wonder how many of the jeep TB's were never released, and kept by those trusted to distribute them?

People like you are why it's quite likely that a different distribution method will be used for this year's contest.

I'll take that as a compliment, I think.

Edited June 23, 2006 by hikergps

22k · June 23, 2006

it's quite likely that a different distribution method will be used for this year's contest.

8.8k · June 23, 2006

As far as adopting them, you'd have to ask Jeep. They are the owners, I can't answer for them.

As far as purchasing them, you can always get a toy jeep at the local ToyMart, and TB tags at Groundspeak.

Or wait until June 27th for Jeep to announce the newest contest.

But why hold on to them? Why? why? why? Someone please explain to me why?????? I just don't get it.

1.4k · June 23, 2006

But why hold on to them? Why? why? why? Someone please explain to me why?????? I just don't get it.

Perhaps it is to allow all geocachers to identify those who don't understand the general parameters of the game. I am all for allowing vanity tags.

I do object to the OP saying that the remarks expressing concern are from left field when he is clearly not even playing the same game. Perhaps his opening question is legitimate. Imagine for a second that he really thinks Groundspeak can give him someone else's property? I imagine that he is expecting a polite email response along the lines of :

"Dear zygote2k

Thanks for taking the White Jeep Travel Bug "Happy" out of play. The White Jeep Travel Bug "Happy" belongs to Jeep and we are happy to see Jeep's Travel Bugs out of the game as are all the other geocachers in the world. All of us agree that Jeep's White Jeep Travel Bug "Happy" is better off with you where most of the geocachers in the world will never get a chance to see it or log it. We are happy to give you something we don't even own.

Have a happy day.

The Geocaching Gods

PS. If you see any nice caches that you would like to own let us know and we will transfer them to your name right away as well. You are such a nice guy. :cry: :cry: :cry: "

A request to Groundspeak - Please don't let that guy have any of my Travel Bugs, even if he sends you pleading emails explaining what a great guy he is and how he has attached my tag to his boat or his willie or whatever.

June 23, 2006

.....But why hold on to them? Why? why? why? Someone please explain to me why?????? I just don't get it.

I am placing the YJTB that I have had since Feb in a cache that has a fairly high difficulty/terrain rating in the hopes that it stays in play for a while, and is hopefully picked up by a fairly experienced cacher with enough scruples to place it somewhere else and not add it to a collection. It is fairly apprearrent to me that jeeps that go into the easier caches disappear from the game fairly quick. That is why I am temporarily hanging onto the YJTB that I have.

Eartha, do you have any bugs, Jeep or other, that you held onto for a particular cache for the same reason? and, Were you one of the distributors of Jeep tb's from either contest?

22k · June 23, 2006

.....But why hold on to them? Why? why? why? Someone please explain to me why?????? I just don't get it.

Some people may think they are doing a service by holding it and then making it available to other cachers so they can get the icon. Perhaps that is zygote2k's reasoning, I don't know you'd have to ask him.

Other people like keeping a souvenir. They think that there are plently to go around, or maybe the jeeps are disappearing so they might as well hold on to one since someone else is going to keep it anyway.

The bottom line is that jeeps do disappear and that fact that they have a finite life span get people worked up about how they are handled. (unlike they do about cacher purchased TBs)

I think we need a solution to fix both issues. Make it so that these things aren't so attractive to keep but people can still enter a contest. Make it so that people can log jeeps years from now.

I can only think of one way to do that.

June 23, 2006

If the contest was still active I wouldn't be holding it, FWIW.

8.8k · June 23, 2006

Eartha, do you have any bugs, Jeep or other, that you held onto for a particular cache for the same reason? and, Were you one of the distributors of Jeep tb's from either contest?

Mostly I just mark them missing. Once I moved one for a banned cacher who couldn't log it.

Now, if you asked me as a cacher, my answer would be "I don't do anything with a TB without permission or communication with the TB owner. I always try to follow the TBs goal and try to log them in as timely a manner as access to the technology allows. Sure I've carried some on long missions, but I asked first. Sure, I've misplaced a bug or two for a bit, but I told the owner as soon as I knew, and found the bugs, and sent them on. And sure I have a TB missing out there in the hands of another cacher (wonder if you know who you are?!) This is real life. But I don't hold on to things that don't belong to me."

June 24, 2006

Eartha, do you have any bugs, Jeep or other, that you held onto for a particular cache for the same reason? and, Were you one of the distributors of Jeep tb's from either contest?

Mostly I just mark them missing. Once I moved one for a banned cacher who couldn't log it.

I'm not sure you understood my question. Why would you mark someone else's bug missing?

Now, if you asked me as a cacher, my answer would be "I don't do anything with a TB without permission or communication with the TB owner. I always try to follow the TBs goal and try to log them in as timely a manner as access to the technology allows. Sure I've carried some on long missions, but I asked first. Sure, I've misplaced a bug or two for a bit, but I told the owner as soon as I knew, and found the bugs, and sent them on. And sure I have a TB missing out there in the hands of another cacher (wonder if you know who you are?!) This is real life. But I don't hold on to things that don't belong to me."

I understand this is real life and things happen. I still think you are dancing around the question a bit. So are you saying that I should be emailing Jeep to see if it is ok that I hold onto a YJTB from 02/06 to 09/06? If it were a regular bug, I would. But, just for kicks, I'll send an email to Jeep just to see if I get a response and "permission".

You forgot to answer my 2nd question. I'm not trying to be a jerk, just curious if you were a jeep distributor. You have probably already figured out my followup question to that if you were.

edit to add a copy of my email, word for word, to jeep:

Dear Jeep,

I am currently in possession of yellow Jeep travel bug #1062. I have had it in my possession since February of this year, and plan on holding onto it until sometime in September of this year, where it will be placed into a cache that is at a very special location to me, with spectacular views of the Blue Mountains of Washington and Oregon. I am requesting your permission to hold the Jeep for this length of time. This request, while odd, is suggested in the geocaching.com travel bug guidelines. Thank you. hikergps

Edited June 24, 2006 by hikergps

6.5k · June 24, 2006

Mostly I just mark them missing. Once I moved one for a banned cacher who couldn't log it.

I'm not sure you understood my question. Why would you mark someone else's bug missing?

Why wouldn't Eartha mark them missing?

If its MIA, kick it to unknown so it stops taking up space on cache page. If the owner isn't around, or is but can't figure it out, find someone that can...

edit: fixed name, not sure who Earther is

Edited June 24, 2006 by welch

8.8k · June 24, 2006

Mostly I just mark them missing. Once I moved one for a banned cacher who couldn't log it.

I'm not sure you understood my question. Why would you mark someone else's bug missing?

It's my job to mark them missing. I don't go looking for them, I mark them missing upon a missing coin being reported as truly missing.

Now, if you asked me as a cacher, my answer would be "I don't do anything with a TB without permission or communication with the TB owner. I always try to follow the TBs goal and try to log them in as timely a manner as access to the technology allows. Sure I've carried some on long missions, but I asked first. Sure, I've misplaced a bug or two for a bit, but I told the owner as soon as I knew, and found the bugs, and sent them on. And sure I have a TB missing out there in the hands of another cacher (wonder if you know who you are?!) This is real life. But I don't hold on to things that don't belong to me."

I understand this is real life and things happen. I still think you are dancing around the question a bit. So are you saying that I should be emailing Jeep to see if it is ok that I hold onto a YJTB from 02/06 to 09/06? If it were a regular bug, I would. But, just for kicks, I'll send an email to Jeep just to see if I get a response and "permission".

I'm not dancing around anything, and yes I think you should email the owner and ask permission. If they don't respond, send it on, it's still not yours to keep.

You forgot to answer my 2nd question. I'm not trying to be a jerk, just curious if you were a jeep distributor. You have probably already figured out my followup question to that if you were.

I didn't forget. I chose not to answer that part, there were only 5000 sent out. But no, I wasn't a distributor.

edit to add a copy of my email, word for word, to jeep:

Dear Jeep,

I am currently in possession of yellow Jeep travel bug #1062. I have had it in my possession since February of this year, and plan on holding onto it until sometime in September of this year, where it will be placed into a cache that is at a very special location to me, with spectacular views of the Blue Mountains of Washington and Oregon. I am requesting your permission to hold the Jeep for this length of time. This request, while odd, is suggested in the geocaching.com travel bug guidelines. Thank you. hikergps

Now I have a question for you. Just how does holding onto a travel bug for 8 months "keep it in the game"? There is a huge error in that thinking.

1.4k · June 24, 2006

Every Travel Bug has an owner. This is a simple straightforward fact, Jeep owns the Jeep TB Tags.

I still cannot imagine why the OP would write a letter to Groundspeak asking about another's property. The opening post and subsequent replies look like the work of the rankest newcomer. Note that the OP says the TB is actually his vehicle. I think it is entirely possible that he may not grasp the simplest part of the game, every TB and every geocache has an owner and it isn't Groundspeak. Every TB tag you encounter belongs to someone. It isn't a collectable, it is part of the game, it is exactly like a geocache. Removing the item that the tag is attached to and reatttaching the tag to some other item does not confer ownership of the TB tag. It is entirely possible the OP really thinks that it does and is now looking for the ability to edit his new TB tag, this would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad. His insistence that others are in left field emphasizes the disconnect with simple facts.

When a TB arrives in your hands you are the custodian, nothing more, the TB tag belongs to the original owner, it has a mission, your role as a custodian is to help the TB in it's mission. I see experienced geocachers advocating the idea that once a TB is placed into play it is "thrown away" and nothing could be further from the actual truth, in many cases it is owned by someone who is anxiously waiting to see where "their" Travel Bug goes and who moves it. Some geocachers actually think that TB owners and others should not care or complain about poor custodianship. It is very easy to find experienced geocachers advocating these ideas as standards of behaviour in regards to TB's. It is in my opinion a contributing factor to TB losses.

As individuals we are powerless to change this situation for ourselves but as a community we might benefit from propagating the fact that every TB is owned by someone. When you pick up a TB you are simply a custodian and you should assist in the TB's mission to the best of your ability. This is so simple that I am surprised it eludes so many. The questions they ask don't change the simple fact thay are poor custodians who detract from the game when they keep, collect or take TB's out of play. Jeep may not care and I am guessing they really don't care but I also suspect that they will realize that conferring any eventual ownership of the Jeep TB's on the people who take them out of play will cause all the Jeep TB's to be stolen immediately, they might as well just sell the tags and icons as vanity plates.

22k · June 24, 2006

I agree with everything you've said expect for

As individuals we are powerless to change this situation for ourselves but as a community we might benefit from propagating the fact that every TB is owned by someone.

I know what you were getting at, but it's going to take individuals to spur the community. I do what I can but I can only work with one cacher at a time. Personally I think a lot of issues can be solved with simple education of TB handling, (Proper retrieval and dropping for example)

Jeep may not care and I am guessing they really don't care but I also suspect that they will realize that conferring any eventual ownership of the Jeep TB's on the people who take them out of play will cause all the Jeep TB's to be stolen immediately, they might as well just sell the tags and icons as vanity plates.

I agree, and being able to purchase one would solve a lot of the problem.

June 24, 2006

I'm not as saavy with the forum tools so I'll address Eartha in a new post. Sorry, but some folks may need to scroll back and forth a little to get up to speed.

I'll start with my response from trying to email Jeep from the GC profile page of the bug owner. It is quite lengthly, my apologies for that. It is as follows:

Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 21:48:56 -0700 (PDT)

From: "Mail Delivery System" <MAILER-DAEMON@signal.Groundspeak.com> Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert

Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender

To: hikergps@yahoo.com

This is the Postfix program at host signal.Groundspeak.com.

I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not be

be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below.

For further assistance, please send mail to <postmaster>

If you do so, please include this problem report. You can

delete your own text from the attached returned message.

The Postfix program

<null@Groundspeak.com>: host barracuda.Groundspeak.com[66.150.167.155]

said:

550 <null@Groundspeak.com>: Recipient address rejected: 5.1.1

Mailbox

<null@Groundspeak.com> does not exist (in reply to RCPT TO command)

Message/delivery-status

Reporting-MTA: dns; signal.Groundspeak.com

X-Postfix-Queue-ID: 7E8F91B6833

X-Postfix-Sender: rfc822; hikergps@yahoo.com

Arrival-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 21:48:56 -0700 (PDT)

Final-Recipient: rfc822; null@Groundspeak.com

Action: failed

Status: 5.0.0

Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; host

barracuda.Groundspeak.com[66.150.167.155]

said: 550 <null@Groundspeak.com>: Recipient address rejected: 5.1.1

Mailbox

<null@Groundspeak.com> does not exist (in reply to RCPT TO command)

Forwarded Message [ Download File | Save to Yahoo! Briefcase ]

From: hikergps@yahoo.com

To: null@Groundspeak.com

Subject: [GEO] hikergps contacting Jeep4x4 from Geocaching.com

Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 21:48:56 -0700

Plain Text Attachment [ Scan and Save to Computer | Save to Yahoo! Briefcase ]

--This message was sent through http://www.geocaching.com --

Dear Jeep,

I am currently in possession of yellow Jeep travel bug #1062. I have

had it in my possession since February of this year, and plan on holding

onto it until sometime in September of this year, where it will be

placed into a cache that is at a very special location to me, with

spectacular views of the Blue Mountains of Washington and Oregon. I am

requesting your permission to hold the Jeep for this length of time. This

request, while odd, is suggested in the geocaching.com travel bug

guidelines. Thank you. hikergps

[end of email]

Ok. I was hoping for better response than a return to sender, but that is what I got. I'm still holding the bug for the intended cache in September. Like it or not, that is my choice to do so. I have taken the step to contact the owner.

Now I'd like to re-address Eartha talking about marking TB's missing. My original question was:

"Eartha, do you have any bugs, Jeep or other, that you held onto for a particular cache for the same reason? and, Were you one of the distributors of Jeep tb's from either contest?"

For clarification "the same reason" was to put it in a cache of special personal significance.

Eartha's answer was:"Mostly I just mark them missing. Once I moved one for a banned cacher who couldn't log it." Now do you see how I don't feel that she understood the question? Either that or I'm just too stupid to understand her response. As I see it in her response, if she is holding someone else's TB for awhile, she is marking it as missing.

To answer Eartha's question: "Now I have a question for you. Just how does holding onto a travel bug for 8 months "keep it in the game"? There is a huge error in that thinking." My reasoning? I have made a commitment to put it into a cache. I am not a "bug collector". If it takes me 8 months to place it, it takes me 8 months to place it.

How does taking a bug to an event, keeping sole possession of it, but allowing other people to look at it, then log it, "keep it in the game"? Is the bug changing hands? No. It is in someone's collection, but GC has decided this is an acceptable practice.

If any of my caching buddies want to come take a look at the bug and log a "Discovered It" to "keep it in the game", then more power to them. If Jeep, the owner of the bug, wants to send me an email and tell me to drop the bug, I'll do it the same day into the nearest cache to my house.

Edited June 24, 2006 by hikergps

22k · June 24, 2006

To answer Eartha's question: "Now I have a question for you. Just how does holding onto a travel bug for 8 months "keep it in the game"? There is a huge error in that thinking." My reasoning? I have made a commitment to put it into a cache. I am not a "bug collector". If it takes me 8 months to place it, it takes me 8 months to place it.

How does taking a bug to an event, keeping sole possession of it, but allowing other people to look at it, then log it, "keep it in the game"? Is the bug changing hands? No. It is in someone's collection, but GC has decided this is an acceptable practice.

If any of my caching buddies want to come take a look at the bug and log a "Discovered It" to "keep it in the game", then more power to them. If Jeep, the owner of the bug, wants to send me an email and tell me to drop the bug, I'll do it the same day into the nearest cache to my house.

Let's draw a line. Would you do any of this with say, one of my bugs?

If no, what makes a jeep different?

If yes, you'd have a fight on your hands and I'd take it to the point of getting you banned.

:grin: Have a nice day.

Edit: needed to only add an 'd

Edited June 24, 2006 by BlueDeuce

8.8k · June 24, 2006

Eartha is a forum moderator. Eartha doesn't log caches. Eartha only moves TBs when asked or the holder cannot do so, and Eartha only marks them missing when asked.

I gave you my cacher reply, and I do not feel the need to reveal my caching identity to you. I keep them separate. No matter how many times the cacher in me wants to come in here and throttle a few people, I try to remain neutral, and as diplomatic as possible. I have guidelines I must adhere to as well. I've answered your question. Yes, I held on to a TB or two in my time, but only with the express permission of the owner to take it on a road trip.

The bottom line is Travel Bugs are meant to travel by way of cachers to caches to cachers to caches. .

June 24, 2006

To answer Eartha's question: "Now I have a question for you. Just how does holding onto a travel bug for 8 months "keep it in the game"? There is a huge error in that thinking." My reasoning? I have made a commitment to put it into a cache. I am not a "bug collector". If it takes me 8 months to place it, it takes me 8 months to place it.

How does taking a bug to an event, keeping sole possession of it, but allowing other people to look at it, then log it, "keep it in the game"? Is the bug changing hands? No. It is in someone's collection, but GC has decided this is an acceptable practice.

If any of my caching buddies want to come take a look at the bug and log a "Discovered It" to "keep it in the game", then more power to them. If Jeep, the owner of the bug, wants to send me an email and tell me to drop the bug, I'll do it the same day into the nearest cache to my house.

Let's draw a line. Would you do any of this with say, one of my bugs?

With your permission, yes. If I attempted to contact you and you did not respond, yes.

If no, what makes a jeep different?

Both answers were yes so this question isn't relevant.

If yes, you'd have a fight on your hands and I'd take it to the point of getting you banned.

Have a nice day.

Edit: needed to only add an 'd

June 24, 2006

Eartha is a forum moderator. Eartha doesn't log caches. Eartha only moves TBs when asked or the holder cannot do so, and Eartha only marks them missing when asked.

I gave you my cacher reply, and I do not feel the need to reveal my caching identity to you. I keep them separate. No matter how many times the cacher in me wants to come in here and throttle a few people, I try to remain neutral, and as diplomatic as possible. I have guidelines I must adhere to as well. I've answered your question. Yes, I held on to a TB or two in my time, but only with the express permission of the owner to take it on a road trip.

The bottom line is Travel Bugs are meant to travel by way of cachers to caches to cachers to caches. .

I never asked you to reveal yourself, did I? I guess you're not going to address the issue of "discovering bugs" at GC events, or anything else you don't want to answer so I will drop it. I attempted to email jeep without success. I don't feel bad about it. I've unintentionally hijacked the thread long enough. Thanks all for the debate and discussion. hikergps

edit to fix grammar error not noticed the first time around

Edited June 24, 2006 by hikergps

1.4k · June 24, 2006

I have made a commitment to put it into a cache.

Your commitment is meaningless.

The Travel Bug is not yours, it has a mission, it belongs to someone else.

Perhaps you should explain why have you decided to deliberately hinder the TB in it's mission ?

I think you fail to grasp the general parameters of the game. The people you see at events letting others log kidnapped Jeep TB's also fail to grasp the general parameters of the game, you should tell them this. You should make a point of asking them why they have chosen to deliberately hinder the TB in it's mission.

Your commitment is meaningless. The next time you are at a suitable cache you should assist the TB in it's mission and drop it off.

1.4k · June 24, 2006

If I attempted to contact you and you did not respond, yes.

There you go again.

If you attempt to contact the owner of a TB and the owner does not respond you should assist the TB in the mission that the owner has selected.

The TB belongs to the owner and the mission is one the owner selects.

Do you grasp this simple principle ?

Does every owner need to confirm the mission of each TB that comes into your hands or do you just hijack and hinder the ones you find appealing ?

The TB is not yours, it has a mission, as the custodian of the TB you are to assist in that mission.

This is really simple stuff.

June 24, 2006

I'll respond to this one then I'm done with the thread.

I have made a commitment to put it into a cache.

Your commitment is meaningless.

Thank you for judging me.

The Travel Bug is not yours, it has a mission, it belongs to someone else.

Current GOAL: Move me to another cache so I can meet another geocacher.

Perhaps you should explain why have you decided to deliberately hinder the TB in it's mission ?

Did I say that I was going to mount it over my fireplace? I am placing i in a cache of my choice.

I think you fail to grasp the general parameters of the game. The people you see at events letting others log kidnapped Jeep TB's also fail to grasp the general parameters of the game, you should tell them this. You should make a point of asking them why they have chosen to deliberately hinder the TB in it's mission.

That is not my job nor my responsibility. Have you ever been to an event, witnessed this activity, and told someone to stop? If you have then kudos to you! This is the responsibility of the organizer/sponsor of the event. I'm not going to step on someone's toes at their own party. I can already see a response coming so I'll add this. If someone's life,health,kids,dog whatever is in peril then yes, I'm going to be Johnny on the spot and step in. If it makes me a lesser person because I "should" do the same for a travel bug at someone else's event and I don't, I'm sorry. This is GC's problem. They allow it to happen. They are the one's who "should" fix it.

Your commitment is meaningless. The next time you are at a suitable cache you should assist the TB in it's mission and drop it off.

"Current GOAL: Move me to another cache so I can meet another geocacher." I have already stated that I am doing this. Does it say "Drop it in the next cache you see."

Ok. Now I'm done. Good day all.

1.4k · June 24, 2006

Really, what's the difference if I drive to a cache or an event and let someone log it there. Isn't this the same practice that goes on at geocaching events regarding coin lists and "discovered it" finds?

I am certain after reading this email you do not understand the general parameters of the game. The "Discovered" log was discussed extensively and has nothing to do with logging Jeep TB's. The discovered log allows a pick up and drop TB's in one easy step. The geocoins that people take to events are TB's they own, they show them to other cachers who can then "discover" the geocoin without retrieving and placing it.

Neither of these situations has any bearing on a geocacher who takes a TB tag that belongs to someone else and says it is now theirs as you have done. The lack of understanding you demonstrate is growing deeper and deeper. No matter how you phrase it zygote2k the White Jeep Travel Bug "Poppy", tracking code <tracking code removed by moderator>, belongs to Jeep. Anyone who wants to can put in that code and take a look at Jeep's TB named "Poppy". That TB page has nothing to do with zygote2k and his willy except the near to last log entry indicating that zygote2k is a geocacher taking the Jeep TB out of the game.

I know that you are hoping they will give you the Jeep TB and you can change the name from "Poppy" to "Willy". The fact that you have read this thread and still think that is going to happen is hilarious and very sad, not even a total noob could believe that.

I am not sure why you sent me an email. I am more than willing to discuss this with you in this forum but have no desire to deal with your twisted logic elsewhere.

"Besides, there is no "person" whom actually owns the YJTB's or WJTB's."

Any geocacher can put in the code <tracking code removed by moderator> and they can see that the TB tag you have attached to your willy is owned by Jeep.

Edited June 24, 2006 by Eartha

22k · June 24, 2006

Let's draw a line. Would you do any of this with say, one of my bugs?

With your permission, yes. If I attempted to contact you and you did not respond, yes.

Well, looks like you have every angle covered. Do you stand in front of your neighbor's morning newspaper and mutter, "Does anyone care if I take this paper? Anyone?........Ok. Thanks."

1.4k · June 24, 2006

I am placing i in a cache of my choice.

If you say so.

Your statements allow your commitment to be judged very accurately.

I am sure every reader of this thread who has never had an opportunity to log any type of Jeep Tb is going to think highly of you and your commitment which is basically to keep the TB for many months and ignore the profile message saying the bug has been in your possession longer than 14 days. You ignore this message for no reason other than "personal choice" as you state.

You fail to grasp the general parameters of the game, it isn't your Travel Bug. If it was your Travel Bug you wouldn't get the message after 14 days.

The message that comes up in your profile telling you the bug has been there longer than 14 days is one you choose to ignore. Then you suggest GC wants people to keep TB's and lets it happen when the truth is much simpler, geocachers ignore the message and decide to keep the TB for personal reasons. Whether you mount it over the fireplace like zygote2k or carry the carcass around in your pocket the TB is still dead, it is out of play.

Your statements allow your commitment to be judged very accurately.

Your commitment is meaningless, it is self serving tripe.

You could choose to stop ignoring that message in your profile and place the Jeep TB in a cache. This will let other geocachers have the opportunity to log the TB, as Jeep intended, somehow I don't think you will grasp that simple parameter either.

June 25, 2006

Please let it go. I'd like to find it in a cache someday.

1.5k · June 25, 2006

June 25, 2006

you know whatt, i kinda like this travel bug. instead of moving it let me keep it and not put it back in circulation.

i mean, would you like it if you spent 10 bucks buying the TB and somebody just taking it and keeping it. I think it is a stupid idea and if somebody "adopted" my travel bug i'd be mad.

June 25, 2006

Let's draw a line. Would you do any of this with say, one of my bugs?

If no, what makes a jeep different?

If yes, you'd have a fight on your hands and I'd take it to the point of getting you banned.

Have a nice day.

exactly, well put. i would do the same thing.

Adopt A Yjtb Or Wjtb

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