Rechargeable Batteries - Good Thing?

[Meckers]

I'm looking to upgrade from my very basic GPS unit and am surprised to find that many of the mid range units use internal rechargeable batteries that boast "up to 17 hours per charge." This seems to me to be a complete disqualifier for a GPS unit. Everyone has a fantasy of going out into the wilds and using their GPS to find a remote destination and more importantly, to find your way back. Why would anyone use a GPS that will conk out anytime "up to 17 hours?" Wouldn't it be infinately more sensible to use a unit that uses alkalines and carry an extra 4 pack of batteries in your bag? What does that weigh, a couple of ounces?

 

Am I missing something? Do these units allow the subsitution of alkalines? I haven't been able to determine if they do.

[+ejnewman]

I think there are battery packs that you can buy that can charge the unit without actually being near an electical outlet. But yeah, internal rechargeable batteries can be a bad idea in many situations.

[+Miragee]

I use a GPSr, the Garmin Vista C, that uses AA batteries. I have the 15-minute, 2500 mA Energizer rechargeable batteries. They last more than 12 hours, and I can get "fresh" batteries in only 15 minutes if I am home, or using the charger in my car with the Inverter.

 

I always carry four, charged-up, spare batteries with me.

[+7Crooks]

I had been thinking "why don't GPS units have internal batteries". You've made my answer clear.

 

Recently I have been using my GPS a lot! I've gone through several AA batteries and didn't realize the short life range. I agree that even a short outing will require 4 completely charged batteries as a backup.

[CenTexDodger]

Most of the Garmin handhelds use AAs. Magellan decided to put rechargeable cell phone type batteries in their Xplorist line.

[+Mule Ears]

I have a Foretrex 201 with internal, rechargeable batteries. I use it on dayhikes, and a charge easily gets you through a long day. They make a version (101) that takes replaceable AAA batteries, but it's somewhat bulkier.

 

Obviously, this is not the unit for continuous use on a multi-day wilderness trek, but it's quite suitable for out-and-backs. In an emergency the battery life could be extended by switching to battery-saver mode (slower updates) or turning the unit off periodically and navigating by map-and-compass between GPS fixes.

[+TrailGators]

I prefer batteries. It is easy to take as many spares as you need and you can always buy/borrow some if you run out. As Miragee said you can also go with rechargeable external batteries too. But batteries are so cheap at Costco that I just buy a big pack of them so I never have to remember to charge them. I typically get about 20 hours of battery life with my 60CS using Duracells.

[+Team Cotati]

All your battery needs fulfilled: http://www.thomas-distributing.com/index.htm Cache on Garth!!

[+Thrak]

When researching my first GPSr purchase the fact that Garmin uses AA batteries was a major reason for going with that brand. Of course now I realize that their service and support are also excellent reasons for choosing Garmin as well. I just can't imagine being happy with a fixed internal battery.

[+Brian Stirling]

I use a GPSr, the Garmin Vista C, that uses AA batteries. I have the 15-minute, 2500 mA Energizer rechargeable batteries. They last more than 12 hours, and I can get "fresh" batteries in only 15 minutes if I am home, or using the charger in my car with the Inverter.

 

I always carry four, charged-up, spare batteries with me.

 

It's not a good idea to use 15 minute chargers as they overheat the batteries reducing there lifespan. A better chrageing solution is to use a slow charger with smarts to prevent overcharging yet give you full capacity.

 

All your battery needs fulfilled: http://www.thomas-distributing.com/index.htm Cache on Garth!!

 

I've order the Maha charger (forget part number) from them that can charge up to 4 AA or AAA NiMH or NiCd batteries with each cell being charged individually. It has a fast/slow charge switch and will charge a 2500mAHr NiMH battery in about 100 minutes (FAST) or 8 hours (SLOW). I usually charge in slow mode and leave the batteries in the charger for about 24 hours for a full top off.

 

Brian

[+EScout]

Am I missing something? Do these units allow the subsitution of alkalines? I haven't been able to determine if they do.

 

It sounds like you are talking about the eXplorists with Li-ion rechargeable pack. Most of us that use these like the charging ease of these. You can charge them using AC, DC in a car, or any USB drive on a computer. Think of your cell phone and PDA. Besides the charging ease, you do not have to constantly open, remove batteries, charge them and put back in (like with NiMH.) Also, the battery packs keep their charge for long periods of time, so any extras will not lose charge quickly like NiMH. You can buy extra Li-Ion batteries for less than $10.

 

The eXplorists also use AAA batteries if you get the clip/holder.

[+Team Cotati]

Equiptment that uses AA or AAA batteries will in most all instances work with alkalines, heavy duty, rechargables, lithiums....which ever. Certain ones will be better suited for a particular application, but they all will work. This is why battery type standards exist.

Edited July 6, 2006 by Team Cotati

[+IV_Warrior]

Equiptment that uses AA or AAA batteries will in most all instances work with alkalines, heavy duty, rechargables, lithiums....which ever. Certain ones will be better suited for a particular application, but they all will work. This is why battery type standards exist.

 

Well, maybe in MOST cases, but I have a AA camera that specifically states to NOT use alkalines. The recommend NiMH or something else which I can't remember and I'm too lazy to dig out the manual.

[+khaytsus]

Equiptment that uses AA or AAA batteries will in most all instances work with alkalines, heavy duty, rechargables, lithiums....which ever. Certain ones will be better suited for a particular application, but they all will work. This is why battery type standards exist.

 

Well, maybe in MOST cases, but I have a AA camera that specifically states to NOT use alkalines. The recommend NiMH or something else which I can't remember and I'm too lazy to dig out the manual.

 

Colour LCDs with backlight draw a LOT of power, plus flash units on cameras, and you get a bad situation for normal alkaline batteries. Alkalines have a really high internal resistance, which means that they can't provide very much current without a lot of internal loss (heat). They are really only good for low to moderate loads. Any rechargable is capable of a higher discharge, as are the expensive Lithium non-rechargables.

 

Personally I think I would use rechargables in a GPSr and carry good alkalines with me for backup. I question if Lithium batteries are a good choice however. They are quite powerful, very light, and really last. However, some GPSr state that the battery compartment is NOT waterproof (Garmin Legend eTrex for instance) and I wonder if the batteries would go ballistic if they got wet.. Not sure.

 

Non AA/AAA GPSr.... If you carry a second battery, perhaps. Otherwise, I'm not sure I'd rely on it for your only source of navigation. Myself, I currently only do short trips (very little time...) so my GPS solution works fine for me right now (Palm Treo and a bluetooth Holux 236) but I plan on getting a Legend eTrex or something similar in the near future.

[+Miragee]

I use a GPSr, the Garmin Vista C, that uses AA batteries. I have the 15-minute, 2500 mA Energizer rechargeable batteries. They last more than 12 hours, and I can get "fresh" batteries in only 15 minutes if I am home, or using the charger in my car with the Inverter.

 

I always carry four, charged-up, spare batteries with me.

It's not a good idea to use 15 minute chargers as they overheat the batteries reducing there lifespan. A better chrageing solution is to use a slow charger with smarts to prevent overcharging yet give you full capacity.

 

<snip>

I think since the Energizer 15-minute charger comes with four batteries, those batteries are probably designed to be used with that charger.

 

I haven't had any problems using these batteries, and I sure like the convenience of recharging the batteries so quickly.

[+Jamie Z]

I already typed this several times, but I'll type it again...

 

I am an outspoken proponent of the rechargeable internal battery. I'm also probably one of the very few who've actually used their Explorist in a long-term wilderness environment. One of my traveling companions used a Meridian Color which uses regular AA batts. We were occasionally in, and mostly out of civilization for seven weeks while kayaking the Danube River in eastern Europe.

 

Let me briefly describe our experiences.

 

We each carried a sackful of Energizer Lithium AAs. I also carried a small battery box with a USB port to charge the Explorist each night.

 

Each morning, I'd have a full battery in my Explorist after charing while I slept.

 

My friend's Meridian used about 2/3 of the batteries during each day in use, so in the morning, he'd have anywhere from full batteries to almost empty batteries. Changing to fresh batteries each morning would have been highly inefficient. Instead, he'd have to carry spare batteries every day somewhere on the kayak where he could reach them. In the middle of the day, he'd invariably have to stop, take the battery cover off the GPS, change batteries while in the middle of a river, and then find someplace to store the dead batteries until we got to shore and he could pack them away properly.

 

On this nearly-two month long trip, I was much happier with the battery pack than if I'd had regular batteries. The AA GPS required too many battery changes at inconvenient times. I never once during the entire trip opened my GPS to the elements.

 

I'm not saying my setup was perfect. Sure, there were some times when I forget to plug in the GPS at night. And there were times when I'd plug it in and wake up with only 1/2 charge because the AAs in the battery box had gone dead. In those cases, I'd put fresh batteries in the battery box and charge the GPS while we ate breakfast. The hour or so it takes to eat and pack were usually enough to give me enough charge to last through the day.

 

There are still those who insist they would never use a GPS with an internal battery, but really.. how many of you are going to go on multi-day trips away from any sort of charging source? Even if you go, you can charge in the field for virtually the same bulk as would be necessary to carry spare AA batteries for a traditional GPS. I've been there. I think it works better.

 

Jamie

[+JDandDD]

Our experience is that same as Miragee's. What's true is that fast rechargers generally do not get the batteries to full charge but stop at 80 to 90%. However, haven't had a problem yet with my Magellan. Always carry spares reagardless of battery type, that's just safety.

 

The other nice thing about rechargeables is with a Bruton solar charging system you can re-charge the batteries during a long trip.

 

JD

[+YuccaPatrol]

I am in the group of folks who consider AA batteries to be a requirement for any of my handheld outdoor electronics.

 

My camera, GPS, and FRS radio all take them and it is so easy to keep enough batteries charged and ready to go. If for some reason I run out, I can scavenge batteries from one of the other devices or buy a fresh pack of alkalines almost anywhere that sells anything.

[Suscrofa]

I am in the group of folks who consider AA batteries to be a requirement for any of my handheld outdoor electronics.

 

My camera, GPS, and FRS radio all take them and it is so easy to keep enough batteries charged and ready to go. If for some reason I run out, I can scavenge batteries from one of the other devices or buy a fresh pack of alkalines almost anywhere that sells anything.

Totaly agree. Proprietary LiIon batteries cost a fortune, have a short life span and after a few years can't be found anymore. As long the industry does not comme with a better standard battery pack, AA is the way to go.

[Meckers]

I'm really glad I initiated this topic. I'm more convinced than ever that fixed internal batteries are a disqualifier.

 

Jamie Z, sorry but your argument is unconvincing. You still have to carry alkalines PLUS a box to use those alkalines to to recharge your GPS. What's the point? Just use those same alkalines directly. Furthermore, in the extreme case (admittedly highly improbable) you can cannibalize batteries from your camera, walkie-talkie, etc as YuccaPatrol suggests. You also know that rechargable batteries can lose their capacity fairly quickly (I have a mini-IPOD that after one year can't keep more than 90 minutes).

 

Of course if all you do is geocache in a local park, this isn't an issue and can actually be an advantage. However, that's not the romance of a GPS. Few of us will be latter day Lewis and Clarks but we can daydream can't we?

 

Magellan, what were you thinking?

[+geognerd]

How often do I have to say this? The eXplorist Li-ion battery is not fixed and is not proprietary. It is a Motorola t720 cell phone battery that can be found at well over a dozen outlets online and is often less than $10. The battery can be removed and replaced by the user as easily as AA batteries.

 

The iPoos are known for using junk batteries that won't hold a charge after a year. I just bought a SanDisk Sansa e260 that uses a Li-ion battery that is user replaceable. At least Magellan and SanDisk let you change the battery. Li-ion batteries are great if the user can change them out themself. I have seen no complaints in the forum about the eXplorist batteries going bad. Since they are Li-ion batteries, eventually they won't hold a charge as well as when they were new. But these models have been in the field over a year and no complaints yet. And when the batteries do go bad, $10 and about 30 seconds will fix the problem.

Edited July 6, 2006 by geognerd

[+Jamie Z]

IYou still have to carry alkalines PLUS a box to use those alkalines to to recharge your GPS. What's the point?

I agree that the aspect of charging is a little inconvenient, but in some cases it made it more convenient. As I said above, I never had to change batteries in the middle of the day. Given our location in kayaks in the water, it was rather inconvenient for my friend to have to change batteries en route. I can imagine that during a hiking trip, keeping spare batteries accessible might not be as inconvenient, but it would be a extra thing that you wouldn't need to do if you had a rechargeable battery.

 

As for carrying batteries PLUS a box... rather than just batteries... the difference is negligible. For the 7-week trip, we each carried something like 60 batteries. (I'm only guessing, I can't recall exactly) That is, we had 15 4-packs of the lithium batteries. I trimmed the cardboard off the 4-packs so I simply had 15 little plastic packages of fresh batteries. By coincidence, the battery box I carried held four batteries, so all I had to do was open one of my packages and fill the battery box. The battery box is virtually the same size as a package of batteries, so the difference came down to almost nothing.

 

I don't expect I can convince you. There are faults with either method, and if you prefer AAs, then you prefer AAs. I can follow your argument, but I think people are incorrectly assuming that using an internal battery in the "wilderness" can't be done. I've done it, and in my opinion, it worked better than using AAs.

 

Jamie

[andygriffith]

IYou still have to carry alkalines PLUS a box to use those alkalines to to recharge your GPS. What's the point?

I agree that the aspect of charging is a little inconvenient, but in some cases it made it more convenient. As I said above, I never had to change batteries in the middle of the day. Given our location in kayaks in the water, it was rather inconvenient for my friend to have to change batteries en route. I can imagine that during a hiking trip, keeping spare batteries accessible might not be as inconvenient, but it would be a extra thing that you wouldn't need to do if you had a rechargeable battery.

 

As for carrying batteries PLUS a box... rather than just batteries... the difference is negligible. For the 7-week trip, we each carried something like 60 batteries. (I'm only guessing, I can't recall exactly) That is, we had 15 4-packs of the lithium batteries. I trimmed the cardboard off the 4-packs so I simply had 15 little plastic packages of fresh batteries. By coincidence, the battery box I carried held four batteries, so all I had to do was open one of my packages and fill the battery box. The battery box is virtually the same size as a package of batteries, so the difference came down to almost nothing.

 

I don't expect I can convince you. There are faults with either method, and if you prefer AAs, then you prefer AAs. I can follow your argument, but I think people are incorrectly assuming that using an internal battery in the "wilderness" can't be done. I've done it, and in my opinion, it worked better than using AAs.

 

Jamie

 

Jamie,

 

What I don't understand is that the Magellan batteries last about 14 hours, right? A set of charged NiMH batteries will last as long in a 60CSx and longer in a 60CS, so I don't see why your friend had to recharge in the middle of the day. Also, you had to carry around a battery box to recharge yours which I see as inconvenient. Finally, worst case, you carry 2 spare AA's with you and swap them out if you need to, a 20 second process.

[+YuccaPatrol]

It really seems odd to use AA batteries to recharge another battery, and even more odd to believe that is an easier process than just popping in a set of fresh batteries, but if that floats your boat (or kayak), then it is fine with me.

[+Jamie Z]

What I don't understand is that the Magellan batteries last about 14 hours, right? A set of charged NiMH batteries will last as long in a 60CSx and longer in a 60CS, so I don't see why your friend had to recharge in the middle of the day. Also, you had to carry around a battery box to recharge yours which I see as inconvenient. Finally, worst case, you carry 2 spare AA's with you and swap them out if you need to, a 20 second process.

The Explorist battery lasts about 17 hours.

 

I don't know how long a set of NiMH batteries will last in a 60csx. My friend has a Meridian Color. With Lithium AA batts, he got about 17 or 18 hours use. He didn't "recharge" in the middle of the day, he had to swap batteries. This was because a day on the river was between 10 and 12 hours. A set of new Lithium batteries lasted about 1 2/3 days on the river. Invariably he wouldn't begin the day with full batteries. There really wasn't any way around this unless he'd just thrown away partially used batteries.

 

You're right that charging my GPS batteries by using AAs seems a little awkward. Sometimes it is... I had to remember each night to charge up the GPS. What I maintain is the advantage to such a system is that I had my inconvenience at the best possible time--while I was in camp at night. My friend, on the other hand, with his AA GPS, was inconvenienced while out on the river, forcing him to stash spare batteries somewhere within reach, and then change batteries while in the middle of the river. Often, he opted to let the GPS die rather than stop and change batteries. He'd change batteries the next time we got to shore.

 

Fortunately, for us GPS wasn't vital most of the time. We simply used it as a good map to show us the river ahead, the towns we were approaching, and to keep track of our speed and distance. When my friend's GPS would run out of batteries in the middle of the day, he often opted to leave it off rather than swap out batteries.

 

I'm not opposed to using AAs. I've had GPS that use AAs. It works fine, but to suggest that an internal battery is incompatible with long-term wilderness travel is incorrect in my opinion. It's just different.

 

Jamie