Geocoin "copies"

[+nikki9093]

I was reading one of the logs and actually saw someone that had a "copy" of their geocoin in the cache but not the original. I have also heard of people doing this too. How do cachers feel about this and is it OK to do it, say, take a picture of the coin you own, laminate it, and put it out like its the coin itself into a cache? I kinda want to do it but I dont know how others would take it, if its not "proper" caching practice, or if its as acceptable as having the real thing. I think its a good idea, but I was wanting some feedback on the idea.

[+hybridgeek]

It seems some people do in fact do this, but it is frowned upon. I haven't discovered any geocoins in my journies yet, but when I do, I'd really like them to be a physical coin to hold. It would also help keep me from dropping the picture and forgetting it at the site. As for more opinions, this has been discussed before:

 

A link to another conversation on these forums

 

Coin replicas discussion

 

Hope that helps!

Hybridgeek

[+BlueDeuce]

Personally? It doesn't bother me.

 

But what's the point, logging an icon for a coin you didn't really find?

Edited September 10, 2006 by BlueDeuce

[+nikki9093]

I dont know...I like finding them but I usually just go to hunt for the cache itself. If theres a coin, I sometimes log it, take it, replace it with another of the like...I guess it is personal preferance when it comes down to making a copy to save the original. I just read the other post in the forum about the copies being made and its a mix feeling on the topic. I guess because Im still kind of a newbie at this, the idea of one of my coins getting taken and never seen again ever kinda weirds me out. Hence the asking of opinions here. BUT, the other post fairly cleared some of the questioning up. I like the idea of making a copy, but understand the logic of why put it out just to disappoint the person there to find the real thing...grr...Its something for me to ponder. Drilling a hole in it and adding a buddy to it sounds like it would work alot better then just having the coin itself...having more then one helps also.

[+BadAndy]

I found a photocopy of a coin in a cache once....

 

I was like "Dude, whats this?"

Shootie was like "I think it's a geocoin"

Then I was like "No way man!"

Then she was all like "It's true dude"

Then I was like "thats bogus man"

and she was like "yeah"

[+BlueDeuce]

If my Travel Bug goes missing, I release a copy and no one complains.

 

Coins? If it can't travel, and I can't re-release it without somebody complaining that they didn't get to find my coin, I don't understand the purpose of releasing one in the first place.

Edited September 10, 2006 by BlueDeuce

[+whitebear]

Me ,....when I release them they are gone ,I love to hear back about their travels but if they are gone they are gone.Then again its not like I'm putting out coins worth as much as a MB coin.I think people ,including myself like to feel & see the real thing ,before I became such a coin freak I was always doing the happy dance if I found a coin...in fact I still do!

Replacing a missing TB is different because people don't know what it is supposed to look like in the first place.So a replacement is usually the same style item just with a copy tag or a faked tag.

Anyway I am going on way too long ,REAL thing for me please.

[+Cryptid]

I came across a plastic lizard with a number written on the belly, when I logged it it was a for a geocoin.

Is there a rule somewhere against this?

[+wavector]

People make and release cardboard copies becuase they do not want to have the real coin stolen and I can assure you, it will get stolen.

 

I live in a very small city and there are only a few geocachers yet we see geocoins get stolen.

Thieves will steal them no matter what you do, scratch them, drill them, attach a note saying Please Do Not Steal Me, all no good, nothing will stop your geocoin from being stolen, someone will go to the cache and they will steal your geocoin. None of the suggestions for avoiding this will work, your coin will get stolen.

 

However, if you make a cardboard copy of the coin then any geocacher who finds it will be happy to discover it and get icon. Geocachers will also move it, after all it is a TB and anyone who has moved more than a few TB's knows that TB's have no defined shape/size/material. Geocoin enthusiasts everywhere will know that you have placed the cardboard copy so that your geocoin will not get stolen, they have probably had geocoins stolen as well.

 

There are no reasons to object to this practice and I actually recommend it if you have an interest in protecting your geocoins from being stolen while traveling from cache to cache, nothing else will work. The geocoin thieves really don't want the icon and they do not want to help other geocachers by moving a TB, they want to steal geocoins, needless to say the geocoin thieves really do not like these cardboard coins.

 

It is not frowned upon at all though there are a few people who will try and convince you to put your geocoins in caches, apparently they do not want the icon, they do not want to help you by moving your TB, they want your geocoin in a cache. I would ignore those people and the advice they are giving you. Make a cardboard copy and place that in a cache if you wish to have a travelling geocoin.

Edited September 10, 2006 by wavector

[+Team JSAM]

Short version: THEY SUCK BIG TIME!!

[+Damenace]

Please not this topic, AGAIN .

[+CachingCoins]

I know this topic goes around & around & comes up again & again.

But, I have a question? Would there be so much fuss & excitement over the Geocoin Fairy coin if it was just a copy?

[+Cryptid]

I found a site that makes personal dog tags, one could use these and put their coin number on it, attatch it to something like a travel bug, but not lose the coin. Finders get the Icon, thieves get thwarted. If they do steal it, just make another one.

[+wavector]

It isn't really about the impression that a real coin makes versus a cardboard copy, it is about geocoins being stolen from caches.

 

Many geocachers do not steal geocoins, they move them along as intended by the owner and they are happy to have the opportunity to get an icon and help another geocacher, a smaller number just steal them whenever they find them, I am not sure what the intend to do with them but they do steal them. The thieves are not interested in stealing cardboard copies. For those who are out geocaching there is no effective difference between the cardboard copy and the real coin, the cardboard copy gives you the icon and allows you the opportunity to help another geocacher by moving their trackable item. Your cardboard copy will be logged by all the geocachers who are willing to help other geocachers.

 

Your real geocoin will be stolen. The thief will not log the cache, not log the coin and not care about the icon or helping you, they want to steal your geocoin. The people who steal items from caches are primitives and they do not care, they have a very simple agenda, steal geocoins.

 

If you put a geocoin in a cache it will get stolen.

 

If you put a cardboard copy in a cache it will get logged, it will let others obtain the icon, it will travel and you will not have to worry about losing it, you can just make another copy and send that one on it's way.

There is absolutely no reason to place a real geocoin in a geocache unless it is a new unactivated geocoin which you intend to give away, these do get logged and people really like finding them as well.

 

The people who tell you how much they hate finding cardboard copies can be ignored. The only reason to log or move a geocoin is to obtain the icon and/or help another geocacher. The cardboard copy allows that to happen. If someone suggests that there is another reason to use the real geocoin they are not thinking about you and your geocaching experience, they are worried about themselves and their experience.

 

So do not worry about those people who are telling you to place real geocoins, it is almost entirely a complete and total waste of money, they will be stolen after a very short shelf life. If you really feel the need to place geocoins place new unactivated geocoins so that other geocachers can take them.

 

A cardboard copy should be marked in the TB name as COPY and you will have no complaints from any geocachers but there will be those who make you feel bad because your money did not enrich their caching experience, ignore them.

 

We placed almost 170 new unactivcated geocoins in caches this year and not one got stolen.

Every one was a new unactivated trackable coin C/W custom icon and was placed into a cache with a card that said "Congratulations, you can take me or trade me."

[avroair]

I wrote 5 responses then deleted them. I am totally baffled at how to respond to the last post so I will respond generally to the original post:

 

Personally, I don't like it. The caching experience of finding a coin is aweseome! Finding cardboard deflates the experience. But finding no coin in a cache that is supposed to have one also sucks. So go ahead and do what you want since no one's stopping ya anyway.

[+wavector]

I am totally baffled at how to respond to the last post

 

Hi Mark

I hope things are going well. I am not sure if that quote is a good thing or a bad thing but I can surely add some explanation beyond the declarative sentences.

It has happened again, two more geocoins gone this time, not my geocoins but taken out of one of my caches and belonging to a couple of different geocachers.

I have simply decided that I have to stand somewhere and I think the damage caused by possibly prized but essentially valueless items being stolen is avoidable.

I would rather see and move a copy than nothing.

I no longer think that a copy of geocoin placed as a traveler is a bad thing.

 

I love to see, handle and move geocoins but I have realized that in every case where one is stolen the damage is fairly widespread. The cacher who was last to place the geocoin, the person who owned the geocoin, the person who owned the cache, the geocachers who made log entries between the placing and disappearance of the geocoin, emails between cachers trying to figure out when it was actually taken and the sheer audacity of those who basically plunder caches for their own gain, - it is all avoidable.

 

I think that geocoins might become the real treasure in geocaching but they make a very poor traveling item, in my opinion it is better to give them away within the framework of an honour system. I found my very first geocoin in a cache and it was placed by a geocacher from Texas, Jim Brown. I still have the note that came with that coin (I laminated it) and the phrase "take it or trade it" was used. I traded it and enriched the cache and that phrase is the same one I use when placing new unactivated geocoins.

 

I will no longer hesitate in advising new geocoin enthusiasts to use copies if they want to make a geocoin into a travel bug and I think it may be the only way that geocoins might become viable traveling items. I do think that those who place TBs and geocoins into play as travelers are doing a good thing for geocaching and would rather see that continue to happen. It isn't about metal or cardboard in my mind, it is about geocaching and geocoins work for geocachers regardless of what they are made of.

[+whitebear]

It isn't really about the impression that a real coin makes versus a cardboard copy, it is about geocoins being stolen from caches.

 

If you put a geocoin in a cache it will get stolen.

 

If you put a cardboard copy in a cache it will get logged, it will let others obtain the icon, it will travel and you will not have to worry about losing it, you can just make another copy and send that one on it's way.

There is absolutely no reason to place a real geocoin in a geocache unless it is a new unactivated geocoin which you intend to give away, these do get logged and people really like finding them as well.

 

The people who tell you how much they hate finding cardboard copies can be ignored. The only reason to log or move a geocoin is to obtain the icon and/or help another geocacher. The cardboard copy allows that to happen. If someone suggests that there is another reason to use the real geocoin they are not thinking about you and your geocaching experience, they are worried about themselves and their experience.

 

So do not worry about those people who are telling you to place real geocoins, it is almost entirely a complete and total waste of money, they will be stolen after a very short shelf life. If you really feel the need to place geocoins place new unactivated geocoins so that other geocachers can take them.

 

A cardboard copy should be marked in the TB name as COPY and you will have no complaints from any geocachers but there will be those who make you feel bad because your money did not enrich their caching experience, ignore them.

 

We placed almost 170 new unactivcated geocoins in caches this year and not one got stolen.

Every one was a new unactivated trackable coin C/W custom icon and was placed into a cache with a card that said "Congratulations, you can take me or trade me."

 

 

 

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but I don't agree .I could make 400 copies & put them all out in caches ,but I won't . I will continue to put REAL coins in caches ,some/most will have holes with a tag attached & if someone wants the coin that bad that they steal it so be it.

I know some will disappear ,some won't & it is for those people I put coins out & myself. Should we all make cardboard copies of ourselves we can put in a cardboard car to drive around in case a terorist blows up our car ...then the real us won't die .lol

Edited September 10, 2006 by whitebear

[+wavector]

if someone wants the coin

 

We are starting from different gates. I am offfering advice to any geocacher thinking about making a traveler out of their geocoin, it is not predicated upon a hypothetical "if", geocoins placed into geocaches will be stolen. You have apparently have accepted that fact to the extent that you now drill and tag a geocoin, that practice is just one becoming more common as people try to establish strategies to deal with "when" not "if".

 

I would not advise any geocacher to place a valued geocoin as a traveler but I do know that many of the people who find free unactivated geocoins do activate the coin and then place it as a traveler, I suspect they are more liable to do this because the geocoin was free.

 

In any case the thieves do not seem to care, they steal any coins, drilled, tagged, scratched, new, old, the only strategy that I have devised that is foolproof and involves real geocoins is to give them away.

 

I think that the strategy which will eventually discourage thieves from stealing traveling geocoins is the COPY strategy, you think defacing the coin or making it less attractive is a possibility, in essence we are simply choosing different ways of dealing with the same problem, geocoins placed in geocaches get stolen.

 

We may never agree on the right approach but a newcomer will at least benefit from seeing that we both acknowledge there is a problem. I have seen defaced coins and you may think there is world of difference between a defaced coin and COPY but I just don't see it, they both serve the same purpose to me when I am geocaching, they offer me an opportunity to obtain another icon and they allow me to help another geocacher by moving their traveling item.

 

I have absolutley no problems with a COPY tag and will continue to advise people that they are an excellent strategy for deterring thieves.

[+JegMag]

We made a trip to be a FTF at a cache that contained a "geocoin". You cannot imagine how disappointing it was to only find a laminated picture of the coin. We were glad that it was an easy find. I really considered just tossing the copy into the woods or the trash, but I did the right thing and moved it along. The owner said he didn't put the real coin into circulation because they were stolen so often. My response to that -- then don't buy them, don't circulate them.

What's next? Photo copies of travel bug hitchhikers?????

[+Mauison]

By the time I release all the traveling coins I have tagged or will be tagged, I'll have over 100 geocoins released into the wild. I know some will be stolen but to me that's part of the risk associated with releasing them. As for copies, I won't do them, as I wouldn't like going after a cache and then finding a copy instead of the real thing. A while back, I saw a Midwest Geobash coin pop up in a nearby cache. I thought, Wow, that's a cool coin to find in the wild. I looked it up and saw that it was a copy and said, forget it. But to each his own. If someone wants to release a copy, I won't go after it, but I'm sure there are others that would be very happy to find it.

[+BlueDeuce]

If you want to place travelers you need to read Snoogans' Tb Longevity Clinic,

 

The first thing said is to 'eliminate any collectable qualities.'

 

Coins are nothing else but collectables, icon or otherwise. I don't have a problem with buying these things to share with others, but if you want something to travel, choose a journey not a trinket.

Edited September 10, 2006 by BlueDeuce

[+Kealia]

I won't write up another long reply to this topic - but refer you to the links provided above.

 

Short answer = don't like 'em.

[avroair]

When I place a cache I usually put all kinds of good stuff into it. Often spending well over $30 for the container and stuff. My Project X aliens cache cost me $150 if you included buttons and all the alien related stuff --- there is a risk associated with the cache being found and muggled (the area near where that cache was, just got bulldozed for development --- and two caches went missing. So the way I see it, the same risk is associated with geocoins --- except the monetary output ($8.00) is far less.

 

You might say that the coins are intentionally taken. I have had 4 caches intentionally stolen and messed with. Which cost me $100 to put out so I don't see too much difference.

 

I guess I could put out cardboard laminated caches! hehe (just kidding)

[+MikeOtt]

Ten months back I did circulate about 8 "copy" coins. Back then there were maybe 30 icon coins and getting icons was a big deal. I had only one Geowoodstock, Geobash, Kilted cacher and a few others that were valuable and could not be replaced. Rather than just keep them in my collection (and bring them to geoevents) I made copies--(photo pasted on wooden nickel blank that looks like a lot the real coin) and sent them out for people to get that icon because it ws the only way many people could get the icon.

 

Was that a good thing to do or not? It kind of doesnt matter now with so many different icons and coins, who cares if you are missing a few of the very old icons.

[+Bhob]

We made a trip to be a FTF at a cache that contained a "geocoin". You cannot imagine how disappointing it was to only find a laminated picture of the coin.

 

One way to minimize the dashed expectations is to name the coin -

 

Name of GeoCoin - COPY RELEASED

 

This alerts the potential searcher that the coin is a replica

[+501_Gang]

I'm still undecided about this issue. I have found a couple of the coin copies and logged them and moved them on just as I would with the real thing.

 

As for coins being stolen, the coin owner should disable the coin as soon as it goes missing and mark it stolen. That way, if the thief tries to show it, and someones tries to log they found it, they will know that cacher is a thief and hopefully report it to the real coin owner. I know I would.

[+wavector]

At the risk of seeming repetitive -

 

I think that every area has seen a large increase in geocoin thefts, we certainly have.

Paper copies allow all the geocaching functions of a geocoin to operate correctly, they just don't attract the thieves. I am a fan of geocoins in geocaches but not at the cost of the geocoin itself.

Newcomers need to know that they can protect the geocoin they own and make it a traveler through the simple expediency of making a COPY of the geocoin and releasing that copy to travel.

 

I know a lot of geocoin enthusiasts have reservations about this practice but in my opinion that is based upon a view that is idealized, a view where geocaches are not raided by thieves who are looking to steal geocoins.

 

I don't enjoy paper copies as much as real geocoins but I am certain that the geocacher who places a paper geocoin copy will enjoy their experience much more than I will enjoy the experience of handling a real geocoin, bookmarking it and watching it eventually disappear. When a geocacher asks if they should release a real geocoin I tell them that I think it will get stolen, this is an honest answer. I could tell them that I like to find real geocoins and it is true but that is not as honest as telling them it will get stolen. My advice in regards to making copies to travel is based upon the fact that I think the real geocoin will get stolen.

 

If you have handled a fair number of geocoins in the wild then go and review the record, how many of the geocoins that you have helped move along are still moving along?

The best type of geocoin to place in a cache is a new unactivated coin placed so that another geocacher can take it and keep it. These geocoins cannot be stolen and they are almost always logged, especially if they have a small card which tells the geocacher who is finding the item that they are welcome to "take it or trade it".

 

A paper copy works exactly like the real geocoin but does not provide the finder with the same experience. If you really like to focus on the finder's experience then place geocoins that are not activated and are meant to be taken, that creates real joy and justifies the use of the word "treasure" alongside the word geocaching.

[+501_Gang]

When I place a cache I usually put all kinds of good stuff into it. Often spending well over $30 for the container and stuff. My Project X aliens cache cost me $150 if you included buttons and all the alien related stuff --- there is a risk associated with the cache being found and muggled (the area near where that cache was, just got bulldozed for development --- and two caches went missing. So the way I see it, the same risk is associated with geocoins --- except the monetary output ($8.00) is far less.

 

You might say that the coins are intentionally taken. I have had 4 caches intentionally stolen and messed with. Which cost me $100 to put out so I don't see too much difference.

 

I guess I could put out cardboard laminated caches! hehe (just kidding)

 

The only difference I could see, is that the Muggled caches was most likely done by Muggles. The stolen coins are usually done by one of own and that's what really makes it so hard for me to put any out.

 

I'd love to share my coin with the rest of the community with minimal chance of it getting muggled. But to know as your putting out the coin, one of the cachers I'm trying to share with will steal my coin. just makes it hard to do.

 

It's a shame that our own kind would do this and ruin it for everyone else.

 

(edit cuz I can't spell!)

Edited September 12, 2006 by 501_Gang

[Go-mad-Cow]

I came across a plastic lizard with a number written on the belly, when I logged it it was a for a geocoin.

Is there a rule somewhere against this?

 

That sounds like a great idea...I could send out some Cow Pies that way.

[+BadAndy]

Looking over the geocoins I've released or retrieved, about 75% of them have moved in the past 2 weeks. Of the remaining, all but a handful are logged in a cachers possesion. Out of over 100 geocoins, less than 10% are missing.

 

On the other hand, I've placed 43 caches and have had 13 of them stolen. Thats a 23% mortality rate. I suppose it would be a good idea to place log only micro's (the geocache equivilant to a cardboard copy coin) instead of ammocans and tupperware caches to make up for the cache theft....

[+BlueDeuce]

Looking over the geocoins I've released or retrieved, about 75% of them have moved in the past 2 weeks. Of the remaining, all but a handful are logged in a cachers possesion. Out of over 100 geocoins, less than 10% are missing.

 

On the other hand, I've placed 43 caches and have had 13 of them stolen. Thats a 23% mortality rate. I suppose it would be a good idea to place log only micro's (the geocache equivilant to a cardboard copy coin) instead of ammocans and tupperware caches to make up for the cache theft....

 

It's okay to replace the cache if it's lost isn't it? People complained because they didn't get to find the original container? Wow.

 

 

The bottom line is that once lost a coin cannot be replaced (as the same coin). If you want something that can travel well, be lost or stolen, and then easily re-released, do not use a coin. Yes, coins are pretty and have cool icons and some cacher has released 50 coins all traveling around. But the fact still remains, You can put your boots in the oven, but that don't make them biscuits.

[+BlueDeuce]

And why isn't anybody offering the option to purchase another coin and add a previously issued tracking number. Too much overhead?

[+LZ33]

When I go caching and find pine cones and golf balls I ignore them whether it’s a copy or the real thing. Caching is different for everyone, being creative and sharing weighs more than keeping any kind of a trackable from entering a cache.

Edited September 13, 2006 by LZ33

[avroair]

If I understand the following thread correctly, the art of photocopying and laminating a geocoin will get the coin's page locked. Geocoin Cache Thread On the other hand, I may have misinterpreted what it said.

[+BadAndy]

And why isn't anybody offering the option to purchase another coin and add a previously issued tracking number. Too much overhead?

 

I did and the series sold out in a day. I hear one of the coin clubs also did this on one of their coins.

 

Copy coins

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

If I understand the following thread correctly, the art of photocopying and laminating a geocoin will get the coin's page locked. Geocoin Cache Thread On the other hand, I may have misinterpreted what it said.

 

Not exactly true.

 

Writing the number of a coin (or TB) in a cache or a logbook for others to "discover" without having found the actual item is considered a virtual "find" and abuse of the system.

 

Like TBs, you are allowed to set free a REPLICA coin to travel and be logged assuming that you do not have more than one circulatiing . This means that you don't get to set free the coin AND a replica at the same time, or multiple replicas at the same time. You paid to track one item, and that is what you get to track.

 

So, if you sset free a coin and it goes missing, you can then set free a replica with the same tracking number on it. You may not however trade tracking numbers via email, write numbers in logbooks/caches, etc. as mentioned above, or do anything else that is an abuse of the system.

 

Some people will like finding a replica, some will not. But as the coin owner, you are within your "rights" to do so in the above circumstances.

 

Is that as clear as spaghetti sauce now?

 

edit: Disclaimer: This is how it works today and until further notice. Note that the guidelines are fluid and change as the game evolves and Groundspeak sees the need to make changes. Do not take my word as final law that will never change. I am merely a servant to the Frog.

Edited September 13, 2006 by Flying Spaghetti Monster

[avroair]

Nice! Thanks for the clarification.