Caches for Premium Members Only

Posted February 17, 2007 · February 17, 2007

OK, I'm not a premium member. Not a problem as this site does not require it. Premium members get added benefits. OK, for now I can live without those benefits. Premium members can hide caches that are only available to premium members--not viewable to regular subscribers.

My questions: Can I, as a regular subscriber, hide a cache and make it only available to regular subscribers? I realize premium members would be able to see the cache listing, but can I state that premium member will not be allowed to log this cache (and if they do, can I delete their log).

I guess my biggest beef is that regular members can hide caches and it is the premium members that get notified first, and thus get a better chance at FTF. Can I hide a cache and state that a premium can not be FTF and delete that log if they do claim that? Can I list a cache and wait a week to place it (after everyone has had a chance to be notified)?

Nothing against premium members, but I think all members should have an equal chance at FTF.

hitechman

Edited February 17, 2007 by hitechman

Posted February 17, 2007 · February 17, 2007

You "could" do this and require extra requirements to log the cache, but I think it's a pretty lame thing to do in general.

Everyone DOES have an equal chance to get a FTF...they can watch the web listings and see when a new cache gets posted. I know folks that use applications outside geocachinig.com to monitor for new caches. If I'm a premium member and pay the site $$$ to have the notifications sent to me, I feel there's a value in trying to be FTF and I'm paying for that service.

Posted February 17, 2007 · February 17, 2007

You "could" do this and require extra requirements to log the cache, but I think it's a pretty lame thing to do in general.

Everyone DOES have an equal chance to get a FTF...they can watch the web listings and see when a new cache gets posted. I know folks that use applications outside geocachinig.com to monitor for new caches. If I'm a premium member and pay the site $$$ to have the notifications sent to me, I feel there's a value in trying to be FTF and I'm paying for that service.

Not on Premium only listings! Non premium members can't look at those!

Believe it or not BUT not everyone can afford to to pay for a premium membership! So I say it's his cache listing he can make it any way he wants! As far as I've read there are NO rules stateing he can not do this. So I say GO For IT!

Edited February 17, 2007 by SIGNAL98

Posted February 17, 2007 · February 17, 2007

In the true spirit of geocaching, I believe that all should have an equal chance at placing and finding caches--that portion of this sport should not be bought or sold. I feel that all should be notified of caches equally and that it is just plain wrong to sell that privilage. I have no qualm about any of the other premium member services.

JoeX, a premium member, makes his caches available only to other premium members, yet JoeX feels free to find my non-premium member caches--that is just not fair. No one shouild have to pay a price ($$) to be able to locate a cache.

I think it is pretty lame to be elitist and somewhat selfish by doing this--I just don't feel any member should have to pay to find any cache listed on this website.

hitechman

Edited February 17, 2007 by hitechman

Posted February 17, 2007 · February 17, 2007

In the true spirit of geocaching, I believe that all should have an equal chance at placing and finding caches--that portion of this sport should not be bought or sold. I feel that all should be notified of caches equally and that it is just plain wrong to sell that privilage. I have no qualm about any of the other premium member services.

JoeX, a premium member, makes his caches available only to other premium members, yet JoeX feels free to find my non-premium member caches--that is just not fair. No one shouild have to pay a price ($$) to be able to locate a cache.

I think it is pretty lame to be elitist and somewhat selfish by doing this--I just don't feel any member should have to pay to find any cache listed on this website.

hitechman

I agree!

Posted February 17, 2007 · February 17, 2007

Let me explain--It's not that I would not allow premium members in general to be FTF for my caches (or even search for my caches)--I would not want those who have hidden caches and make them available only to premium members to be able to look for mine.

If I can't search for theirs, then I don't want to let them search for mine.

hitechman

Edited February 17, 2007 by hitechman

Posted February 17, 2007 · February 17, 2007

I would not want those who have hidden caches and make them available only to premium members to be able to look for mine.

Ever thought of WHY some people actually make them Premium only?

Could be a lot of reasons.

Some want only Premium members to be FTF.

Others might have had trouble with mugglers,

or maybe even sabotage by non-paying members, and therefore wants the one who actually _pay_ for this service to be able to find the coords, hence excluding less serious members/people to find the cache.

It seems as though you are upset and want revenge in this area, and I'm qurious why...?

Is it such a big problem that hiders of "members only" seek out regular caches?

As mentioned, ever thought of WHY some people actually make them Premium only?

Do you really think it is just to be an a-hole?

Because the way you present it, to me it seems as though you are acting likewise.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding everything, but hey, thats the way I see it right now....

Have you thought of mailing the person in thought and asking why he/she is making them premium only?

Maybe ask if they would be willing to change them so they are available to everyone?

Just a thought.

Posted February 17, 2007 · February 17, 2007

I would not want those who have hidden caches and make them available only to premium members to be able to look for mine.

Ever thought of WHY some people actually make them Premium only?

Could be a lot of reasons.

Some want only Premium members to be FTF.

Others might have had trouble with mugglers,

or maybe even sabotage by non-paying members, and therefore wants the one who actually _pay_ for this service to be able to find the coords, hence excluding less serious members/people to find the cache.

It seems as though you are upset and want revenge in this area, and I'm qurious why...?

Is it such a big problem that hiders of "members only" seek out regular caches?

As mentioned, ever thought of WHY some people actually make them Premium only?

Do you really think it is just to be an a-hole?

Because the way you present it, to me it seems as though you are acting likewise.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding everything, but hey, thats the way I see it right now....

Have you thought of mailing the person in thought and asking why he/she is making them premium only?

Maybe ask if they would be willing to change them so they are available to everyone?

Just a thought.

:lol: So your saying just because a person pays a fee that they are above sabotage? And if you do not pay you are a less serious member?

Posted February 17, 2007 · February 17, 2007

Posted February 17, 2007 · February 17, 2007

So your saying just because a person pays a fee that they are above sabotage? And if you do not pay you are a less serious member?

Please let me know where I'm saying that! :lol:

No, I'm saying this MIGHT be the reason, it has been done in my area.

People who want to sabotage wil _probably_ be less willing to pay for the service.

Anyway, it doesn't mather what I think, what matters is what the cacheowner thinks and why they did it,

which is the bottomline.

And no, I seriously think you should place the cache before even thinking of sendig it for review.

Edited February 17, 2007 by Thorminator

Posted February 17, 2007 · February 17, 2007

OK, I'm not a premium member. Not a problem as this site does not require it. Premium members get added benefits. OK, for now I can live without those benefits. Premium members can hide caches that are only available to premium members--not viewable to regular subscribers.

My questions: Can I, as a regular subscriber, hide a cache and make it only available to regular subscribers? I realize premium members would be able to see the cache listing, but can I state that premium member will not be allowed to log this cache (and if they do, can I delete their log).

I guess my biggest beef is that regular members can hide caches and it is the premium members that get notified first, and thus get a better chance at FTF. Can I hide a cache and state that a premium can not be FTF and delete that log if they do claim that? Can I list a cache and wait a week to place it (after everyone has had a chance to be notified)?

Nothing against premium members, but I think all members should have an equal chance at FTF.

hitechman

We paid a PREMIUM membership after saving for a few months (we have 7 YES 7 kids, PLUS another on the way) to enable extra features, like 500 waypoint pocket queries, NOT because we are RICH!

IMHO If you were to place a NON premium members cache, and deleted premium memmbers FTF logs, then you would be opening yourself to the liklihood of a cache that wouldnt be around too long!

It wouldnt be too long before someone became [upset] with that and felt a revenge was in order!

I know that if we found it and were deleted from the log then we would certainly pay a visit to the cache and re-log again and again, even leaving notes in your log that you didnt allow a PREMIUM member to be the FTF log, and then we would certainly stay well clear of any others you lodged in the future!

I think it would only harm your cache, plus any that you lodge in the future!

Also, I believe that your cache needs to be IN PLACE and AVAILABLE BEFORE you list it on the site for approval

CACHE PLACEMENT GUIDELINES shows that: "Your cache should be in place and ready to hunt at the time your cache page is submitted for review. If for any reason it is not ready, please either disable your cache page so that it won’t be seen by the reviewer until ready, or include a “note to reviewer” to explain your special circumstances (for example, waiting for a permit from a land manager)."

Paying a premium to GC.com (or any other site) is no different to paying a premium to your personal/home/vehicle insurance for a better coverage!

Again, IMHO, DONT DO IT!

Edited February 17, 2007 by Keystone

Posted February 17, 2007 · February 17, 2007

You can make a cache and as a added requirement, specify that no premium members will be allowed to keep a log on the cache page...but before you do that, consider a few things

1) Will you really feel right deleting a legitimate find log just because a person has paid for membership to get other benefits such as PQs?

2) I just looked at the 12 pages of caches (240 caches) nearest your first hide--and found no premium member caches, so how big is this concern in your area--really?

3) Will this make caching better for everyone in your area, or cause a rift among local cachers? And is htat what you want to achieve?

Do you know "JoeX" or have you emailed them to ask why they only hide premium member caches?

Other reasons to make your hides PMOC:

...cut down on traffic in more fragile areas

...avoid having as many newbies involved in hunts that would only frustrate them

...get feedback from more experienced hunters before switching caches over for everyone

...cut down on traffic so you don't have to make visits out to maintain the cache as often

...reduce visibility of caches to cache maggots

...get to see the cool logs of who has looked at your cache

...thinks PMOC are good places to put out better swag

Personally, I have never hide a PMOC and hope to never feel the need to do so. But it doesn't rankle me that some folks have them out there, even if they do look for caches that aren't premium members only.

Posted February 17, 2007 · February 17, 2007

Let me explain--It's not that I would not allow premium members in general to be FTF for my caches (or even search for my caches)--I would not want those who have hidden caches and make them available only to premium members to be able to look for mine.

If I can't search for theirs, then I don't want to let them search for mine.

hitechman

What part of YOU PAY for EXTRA services dont you understand??

Do you ever use unleaded petrol (gas 87octane??) ???

Do you ever use PREMIUM petrol (gas, 95 Octane??) and PAY MORE for it???

Posted February 17, 2007 · February 17, 2007

Let me explain--It's not that I would not allow premium members in general to be FTF for my caches (or even search for my caches)--I would not want those who have hidden caches and make them available only to premium members to be able to look for mine.

If I can't search for theirs, then I don't want to let them search for mine.

hitechman

You can search for their caches. Become a premium member. It only costs 8 cents a day. Seems like a very fair price for a heck of a lot of fun! :lol:

Posted February 17, 2007 · February 17, 2007

I'm just venting. I got frustrated tonight when 9 of the 16 newest caches in my home area were premium member only. Of all that I have said tonight, it boils down to 2 basic things.

1) I don't think one should have to pay $.01 per year to have EQUALLY timely notification of a new cache placement.

2) Those who place paid member only caches should only be able to find the same thing--I realize this is a very small minority of members, but there are a few who hide paying member only caches. Most premium members hid caches for all to find and some hide a few of each.

To me, hiding a paid member only cache is telling me that what's theirs is theirs, and what's mine is theirs. One of you said that would tick them off if I prohibited them from finding mine. Well it ticks me off that they are prohibiting me from finding theirs--if it's good for the goose, it's good for the gander.

It's not the cost, it's the principle. I just don't think it is right to have to "pay" to search for any public cache.

Just out of curiousity, what do you think a premium member would do if I became a premuim member and informed my nonpaying member friends of that caches location so they could find and log it?

I've said what I have to say. It's a free country and I'm entitled to my opinion just like others are entitled to theirs. Doesn't mean I have to agree with them or them with me. I'm sure I'll get over it. No more from me on this subject. I already feel better for speaking my mind. Ya, I was thinking revenge and getting even, but I'll keep playing the game by the rules because I love it. No conditions on any of my hides for anyone (paid or unpaid).

It's just not in the spirit of the game to have to pay to play, and for those who pay to get an advantage in the playing of the game--pay for extra web privilages, yes. The playing field should be level for all those playimg. Yes, this may be selfish of me, but it's also selfish for a paid member to not allow me to play in his/her game as well.

hitechman

Edited February 17, 2007 by hitechman

Posted February 17, 2007 · February 17, 2007

Let me explain--It's not that I would not allow premium members in general to be FTF for my caches (or even search for my caches)--I would not want those who have hidden caches and make them available only to premium members to be able to look for mine.

If I can't search for theirs, then I don't want to let them search for mine.

hitechman

You can search for their caches. Become a premium member. It only costs 8 cents a day. Seems like a very fair price for a heck of a lot of fun!

Iam new to all this but I do have a thought on this subject.I feel that without Premium Members there would be no site for all of us to enjoy.If you like this site and use this site why not support it with your Premium Membership fee.I help run a small site and know first hand that it takes money to run a top quality site like this one.I feel that listing a cache that Premium Members were not allowed to search for would send ill will and backfire on you.I think if a Premium Member wants to list a Premium Members only cache it is well within thier right and they should not be made to feel bad about doing so.Keep in mind whose membership dues keep this site going.

Posted February 17, 2007 · February 17, 2007

So your saying just because a person pays a fee that they are above sabotage? And if you do not pay you are a less serious member?

Please let me know where I'm saying that!

No, I'm saying this MIGHT be the reason, it has been done in my area.

People who want to sabotage wil _probably_ be less willing to pay for the service.

Anyway, it doesn't mather what I think, what matters is what the cacheowner thinks and why they did it,

which is the bottomline.

And no, I seriously think you should place the cache before even thinking of sendig it for review.

"sabotage by non-paying members, and therefore wants the one who actually _pay_ for this service to be able to find the coords, hence excluding less serious members/people to find the cache." This is where.

Edited February 17, 2007 by SIGNAL98

Posted February 17, 2007 · February 17, 2007

Let me explain--It's not that I would not allow premium members in general to be FTF for my caches (or even search for my caches)--I would not want those who have hidden caches and make them available only to premium members to be able to look for mine.

If I can't search for theirs, then I don't want to let them search for mine.

hitechman

You can search for their caches. Become a premium member. It only costs 8 cents a day. Seems like a very fair price for a heck of a lot of fun!

Iam new to all this but I do have a thought on this subject.I feel that without Premium Members there would be no site for all of us to enjoy.If you like this site and use this site why not support it with your Premium Membership fee.I help run a small site and know first hand that it takes money to run a top quality site like this one.I feel that listing a cache that Premium Members were not allowed to search for would send ill will and backfire on you.I think if a Premium Member wants to list a Premium Members only cache it is well within thier right and they should not be made to feel bad about doing so.Keep in mind whose membership dues keep this site going.

I say they make more money off of Travel Tags than anything elece!

Posted February 17, 2007 · February 17, 2007

I think that it is very nice of the owners of this site to make it free for anyone who can not afford or choose not to pay. I know I have paid more then this just to play online games. I think it is a very reasonable price for the benifit you get. If you think about it really "How much does it cost to provide all this info?" Someone pays for server space and 24/7 connectivity and answer questions and COMPLAINTS all the time. Could anyone run a service like this for free to all? Maybe I read your Original Post all wrong but I felt it was quite selfish and offensive. I apologize up front if it wasn't meant that way. I too, used this site for free when I first started playing this game but I realized that I was getting a lot of resources to help me enjoy Geocaching, so much that I wanted to become a part of it all and reap even more.

Posted February 17, 2007 · February 17, 2007

Just out of curiousity, what do you think a premium member would do if I became a premuim member and informed my nonpaying member friends of that caches location so they could find and log it?

After your first post I looked around at some of the caches between your area and mine. I ran into one archive premium cache the owner said had been stolen and commented that there was no way it could have been accidentally found. They added that most of their caches had been taken and suggested that someone was giving the coords to other people.

I looked through there cache history. Their first caches were not PMOC, after most of them went mising multiple times, newer caches were PMOC. The PMOC lasted a while and then suddenly started disappearing. As their caches go missing, they are archived.

And it looks like they have just stopped placing new caches.

I think that's what most of us would do in the same situation.

Posted February 17, 2007 · February 17, 2007

Just out of curiousity, what do you think a premium member would do if I became a premuim member and informed my nonpaying member friends of that caches location so they could find and log it?

hitechman

Most of the PMs I know wouldn't really care if I brought a non-PM friend with me to a PM only cache. There is a loophole to let them log it.

Anyway, in my experience, PM only caches are such a small percentage that there are plenty out there if you chose not to pay.

Posted February 17, 2007 · February 17, 2007

I would never, I repeat, never, remove, destroy, deface, vandalize, or modify any geocache no matter what I though of the owner or their membership choice. Any geocacher who would is just downright scum and lowlife.

hitechman

Edited February 17, 2007 by hitechman

Posted February 17, 2007 · February 17, 2007

I think that it is very nice of the owners of this site to make it free for anyone who can not afford or choose not to pay. I know I have paid more then this just to play online games. I think it is a very reasonable price for the benifit you get. If you think about it really "How much does it cost to provide all this info?" Someone pays for server space and 24/7 connectivity and answer questions and COMPLAINTS all the time. Could anyone run a service like this for free to all? Maybe I read your Original Post all wrong but I felt it was quite selfish and offensive. I apologize up front if it wasn't meant that way. I too, used this site for free when I first started playing this game but I realized that I was getting a lot of resources to help me enjoy Geocaching, so much that I wanted to become a part of it all and reap even more.

I agree. Never kick a gift horse in the mouth.... :lol:

Posted February 17, 2007 · February 17, 2007

PM only caches are not as common as you think. As a matter of fact there are only 11 within 100 miles of my location and the closest is 43 miles away.

Posted February 17, 2007 · February 17, 2007

I would never, I repeat, never, remove, destroy, deface, vandalize, or modify any geocache no matter what I though of the owner or their membership choice. Any geocacher who would is just downright scum and lowlife.

hitechman

I believe anyone who talked about that meant that it was a possible deterant and not meant to you personally. I had the same ethics I have now when I looked for caches before becoming a "member" as I believe you do as well. We "members" do not look down our noses at people who do not choose membership because we do it for the same reason you do it.. FUN! My only point is that some of us pay because we think it is worth it (site cost...blah..blah) and we appreciate it. I personally don't even think about who pays or who dosn't...some people may..I don't know or really care. If it really is an issue then hide a cache and put in the description "Non-Members" only I promise I won't look for it and I know most "members" won't either because it really isn't that big an issue. Just Please above all .. have some fun.

Posted February 17, 2007 · February 17, 2007

"sabotage by non-paying members, and therefore wants the one who actually _pay_ for this service to be able to find the coords, hence excluding less serious members/people to find the cache." This is where.

Try reading the entire post and not just what you feel like.

Others might have had trouble with mugglers,

or maybe even sabotage by non-paying members, and therefore wants the one who actually _pay_ for this service to be able to find the coords, hence excluding less serious members/people to find the cache.

which is exactly what has happened here in my town.

Posted February 17, 2007 · February 17, 2007

I think most PM's stumbled around for a bit before choking up the $3/month to become premium members. So in some ways, PM's will tend to be more experienced cachers. Putting aside the idea that non PM's are running around destroying and stealing caches, sometimes new cachers do damaging things without knowledge that they are doing anything wrong.

I always feel safer putting coins into PM caches, not because I think someone will steal it from a non-PM cache, but because a new cacher may not know what to do with it and keep it accidently.

Posted February 17, 2007 · February 17, 2007

OK, I'm not a premium member. Not a problem as this site does not require it. Premium members get added benefits. OK, for now I can live without those benefits. Premium members can hide caches that are only available to premium members--not viewable to regular subscribers.

My questions: Can I, as a regular subscriber, hide a cache and make it only available to regular subscribers? I realize premium members would be able to see the cache listing, but can I state that premium member will not be allowed to log this cache (and if they do, can I delete their log).

I guess my biggest beef is that regular members can hide caches and it is the premium members that get notified first, and thus get a better chance at FTF. Can I hide a cache and state that a premium can not be FTF and delete that log if they do claim that? Can I list a cache and wait a week to place it (after everyone has had a chance to be notified)?

Nothing against premium members, but I think all members should have an equal chance at FTF.

hitechman

pay $3 or $30 and get a life....

Posted February 17, 2007 · February 17, 2007

I didn't become a premium member to be able to get the PMOC first...or any information. I wanted to be able to use the pocket query thing...and to try going paperless...and to teach myself a bit more of the techie side of things. I have noticed an increased number of PMOC in my area...but I haven't even put them on my search list yet. I did find one PMOC a few weeks ago while I was out walking with the youngest member of the team seeking a few of the nearest caches...I didn't have a pencil on hand so I didn't log it yet, but I have a coin to place in a few weeks and I am taking it there and will log it then. I think the reasons people become Premium Members are much more varied than you think, and many of them are not just interested in getting there first. Place your caches, but please don't disallow me a find because you think I am looking for FTF or whatever since I happen to have paid a few dollars to get all technologically educated (which by the way, has just confused me more than ever in some areas...I have a LOT to learn still).

I, and the rest of my family team, are just doing this to spend awesome family time together. Become a Premium Member and place a bunch of both styles of caches and see for yourself which you like better. There is another conversation about this issue somewhere on here...if I remember correctly, a much more heated conversation. I would like to encourage you to think of it from a different perspective and try to not steal the enjoyment of the game from those who may play it differently than you.

Posted February 17, 2007 · February 17, 2007

pay $3 or $30 and get a life....

Well that was uncalled for...

Posted February 17, 2007 · February 17, 2007

Nothing against premium members, but I think all members should have an equal chance at FTF.

There are so many caches who wait for weeks until the first cacher finds them. Of course those are usually not the easy ones.

I don't really understand your point. You can go caching without any restrictions without paying. But if you want extra service, you have to pay for it. I don't know a lot of businessis who let you use their services for free and just charge you for extras.

And yes, some hobbies are more expensive than others, but you rarely find a hobby which is just $30 per year in fixed costs.

The argument that many people can't affort the $30 per year is just plain ridiculous.

You spent more on batteries for the GPSr every year than that. (For some reason the concept of rechargeable batteries hasn't made it to the geocaching communtiy yet.) I assume that you don't walk to all your caches so I assume that you are willing to spend a lot of money on fuel as well.

I suggest to pay for a one month membership, get all the pocket queries for your local area and you are done.

GermanSailor

Posted February 17, 2007 · February 17, 2007

ok, I'm new, but this is the first time I felt like replying to something. I have read alot of the posts here, and wow, I just can't believe some of the anger here. I am not going to preach about it though. It is a game, a sport, something for fun. FUN! Why turn it into something to stress over? I am just trying to freakin' learn my gps so I can find anything! Any cache, lame, stupid, cool, smart, whatever. It is the thrill of finding things. What happened to camraderie? I spend more on my Starbucks coffee than I do here for the premium membership. Heck, I even spend 12.00 a month to get movie channels on my satellite. I don't even watch it, so I cancelled it. That more than pays for my premium membership. When, or if you go to the gym, don't members have different rates, different plans? Do you look down on them? Uh, the lower paying gym members cannot use the weight machines. Please don't sweat on them either. If you take a flight, do not people pay different prices? We all pay different prices on the same things, or different prices to get a little bit more. Like first class air fare and coach. Do you look down on the first class people? I don't, they choose to spend more money to get extra. I do not want to for flying. Just get me there in one piece, alive.

As a matter of fact, I thought the premium price was so low, why not? (don't raise the price though!) And, if you think about it, how can you afford a decent gps but not the premium rate? Almost every sport you decide to get into requires some type of investment. Is there any sport anymore, or any hobby that does not require some sort of investment? (actually, if anyone can think of one, there's another topic to post on)I have never heard anyone say that premium members are better, or that nonpremium members are not. This is the first post I've seen like that. It's just kind of sad about all the stress and anger on here. I don't know, take up knitting or something calming.

Posted February 17, 2007 · February 17, 2007

I'm moving this thread to the general "Geocaching Topics" Forum because this is not a "Getting Started" issue. I also ask that everyone dial back a notch on their tone, and remember that this forum functions best when everyone respects the rights of others to hold contrary opinions, expressed in a respectful manner.

Posted February 17, 2007 · February 17, 2007

<snip>

Nothing against premium members, but I think all members should have an equal chance at FTF.

hitechman

I ran as a NPM for just over 2 years and I was able to get a few FTF. No big deal just check the site and learn (try) the schedule of your VCR, learn the schedule of the "hounds" and beat them at their own game.

It boils down to how bad you want it, yes PM's have an advantage but other than that is up to your individual motivation. Personally I am happy enough just to find the cache :lol:

Posted February 17, 2007 · February 17, 2007

In the true spirit of geocaching, I believe that all should have an equal chance at placing and finding caches--that portion of this sport should not be bought or sold. I feel that all should be notified of caches equally and that it is just plain wrong to sell that privilage. I have no qualm about any of the other premium member services.

JoeX, a premium member, makes his caches available only to other premium members, yet JoeX feels free to find my non-premium member caches--that is just not fair. No one shouild have to pay a price ($$) to be able to locate a cache.

I think it is pretty lame to be elitist and somewhat selfish by doing this--I just don't feel any member should have to pay to find any cache listed on this website.

hitechman

The PM benifits are bonuses, awarded for helping keep the site running, without PM's you would not have this site at all. You have the same chance I do, you simply choose not to take it. I get the istant notifications but I have no FTF's even though most new caches here go several days without the first find, I could easily be the first finder on almost every new cache but frankly I don't see the appeal, who cares who finds it first? I sure don't.

Beyond that, I think your idea is pretty mean sprirted and vidictive, punish those who keep your game running because you don't get the premium benifits for free. I think the Premium members are pretty darn generous to pay for your hobby without complaining, perhaps you need to try looking at the whole picture, not just your narrrow view of it.

Don't take any of this personally, but plese take it to heart.

Posted February 17, 2007 · February 17, 2007

I see this as a very cut and dried issue, as I've been on both sides. For about 6 months, I cached as a regular member. I was very happy with the whole experience. I liked the idea of pocket queries but could live without them.

Then, while on vacation with limited internet access, I realized how great it would be to have a nice GSAKable (And Google Earthable) list of all the caches in the area without downloading loc files of 10 caches at a time (Or is it 20? I don't remember). So, I signed up. I mean, $30 was about the cost of a meal on the trip, so it didn't seem all that bad (Still doesn't, actually). Plus, it supports a great website.

Now, I'd never go back. I get an email with all the local caches every Friday (We cache on Saturday and Sunday), and any trip I go on, I add a PQ for that as well (Road trip in the spring, testing out the "Along a route" functionality. Woot!). For $30 a year, for me, it's worth it. I've never looked for (or even seen listed, though I don't care enough to search) a "Members Only" cache so have no opinions on them specifically.

I consider it very similar to old Drive In movies. I can remember as a kid sitting on a hill watching a drive-in movie for free. We had a radio that you could tune in to the station that the theater broadcast in and get a very static-filled signal and just make out what they were saying, if tehre wasn't much music. It was great, and it was free. People who paid got a better experience because they could sit in their car, they got a much better radio signal, and the picture was larger because they were closer. Now, I can't *imagine* going down to the office and asking them if it'd be possible to hook us up with a screen, or perhaps boost the signal for us so we could hear better.

This is, to me, a similar situation. If you pay, you get "bonuses". If you don't pay... well, you're out of luck.

Posted February 17, 2007 · February 17, 2007

perhaps they need to eliminate free memberships from GC.com completely to avoid the complaining?

bandwidth doesn't pay for itself, and anyone who doesn't realize that prolly should have a lesson.

:lol:

anyone who can't afford 3 bucks a month probably shouldn't be wasting time geocaching, at least not unless they pick up some aluminum cans on the way to the tupperware.

Posted February 17, 2007 · February 17, 2007

OK, I'm not a premium member. Not a problem as this site does not require it. Premium members get added benefits. OK, for now I can live without those benefits. Premium members can hide caches that are only available to premium members--not viewable to regular subscribers.

My questions: Can I, as a regular subscriber, hide a cache and make it only available to regular subscribers? I realize premium members would be able to see the cache listing, but can I state that premium member will not be allowed to log this cache (and if they do, can I delete their log).

I guess my biggest beef is that regular members can hide caches and it is the premium members that get notified first, and thus get a better chance at FTF. Can I hide a cache and state that a premium can not be FTF and delete that log if they do claim that? Can I list a cache and wait a week to place it (after everyone has had a chance to be notified)?

Nothing against premium members, but I think all members should have an equal chance at FTF.

hitechman

Don't be such a baby.

Posted February 17, 2007 · February 17, 2007

***JoeX, a premium member, makes his caches available only to other premium members, yet JoeX feels free to find my non-premium member caches--that is just not fair. No one shouild have to pay a price ($$) to be able to locate a cache.***

You are using a computer system that costs money to run....and the PREMIUM members...like my self are supporting YOU. So, As a paying member...I should be able to see what the NON-PAYING people are doing...like your caches.

If you can't afford $3 a month...you can't afford a GPS....or this sport.

Edited February 17, 2007 by GURU4HIRE

Posted February 17, 2007 · February 17, 2007

anyone who can't afford 3 bucks a month probably shouldn't be wasting time geocaching, at least not unless they pick up some aluminum cans on the way to the tupperware.

Thats one way to come up with 3 bucks a month. Its not a huge monthly payment, and its not required. If you cant afford it, then theres no need to be complaining about PM benefits. I pay because of Pocket Queries, and i could care less about being a FTF. As long as i find the cache sometime, i am happy. Im not in it for numbers or for FTF, im in it for the experience and the fun. I know if you CITOed anywhere around me, for aluminum cans, and took them to a recycling center/scrap yard for the 50 cents a pound rate right now, it wouldnt take long to come up with the monthly 3 bucks if you wanted to go premium and couldnt afford it.

Posted February 17, 2007 · February 17, 2007

In the true spirit of geocaching, I believe that all should have an equal chance at placing and finding caches--that portion of this sport should not be bought or sold. I feel that all should be notified of caches equally and that it is just plain wrong to sell that privilage. I have no qualm about any of the other premium member services.

JoeX, a premium member, makes his caches available only to other premium members, yet JoeX feels free to find my non-premium member caches--that is just not fair. No one shouild have to pay a price ($$) to be able to locate a cache.

I think it is pretty lame to be elitist and somewhat selfish by doing this--I just don't feel any member should have to pay to find any cache listed on this website.

hitechman

I have a great idea :lol: why don't you read these threads that discuss this issue Ad Nauseum. The search function is your friend.

Subscription Only Caches--grrrrrrrrrr!

Member Only Caches, Should I or shouldn't I?

Caches for Premium members only

Members only caches

"members only" caches rant

And more since:

The First "no Members" Cache

Change Moc Suggestion, need only normal account to view

Northeast Premium Member Only Caches, What are your thoughts?

When To Hide A Premium Member Cache, What is the culture of Member Only cache

Members Only Cache Hides, Members Only Cache Hides

Members Only, Premium Member Cache

And from across the pond

Members Only Caches, Is there a point anymore ?

Edited February 17, 2007 by Kit Fox

Posted February 17, 2007 · February 17, 2007

Regarding the UNAFFORDABLE COST of premium memberships.

Is there ANYONE out there who spends less than $3/MONTH on gas for geocaching????????????

Posted February 17, 2007 · February 17, 2007

Seems like you have really touched a nerve here. Personally, I have survived almost SIX years on a MEMBER account, and have almost 250 FTFs to show for it.

Edited February 17, 2007 by Gator Man

Posted February 18, 2007 · February 18, 2007

I pay for the Premium membership to help support the site.I could care less about FTF. I enjoy going out and finding the caches.It lets me get outdoors and is great exercise too. To me it is worth the money.

Posted February 18, 2007 · February 18, 2007

I know im going to be shot up like a buck on opening day deer season, but i think that dues should be paid for this game. Just like soccer football, etc, all sports have a yearly/seasonal fee. I think everyone should have to pay, and everyone be equal. This would help Groundspeak out, and probably keep away all the people that do this just for the desctruction/theft of caches, coins, tbs, etc.

Posted February 18, 2007 · February 18, 2007

I know im going to be shot up like a buck on opening day deer season, but i think that dues should be paid for this game. Just like soccer football, etc, all sports have a yearly/seasonal fee. I think everyone should have to pay, and everyone be equal. This would help Groundspeak out, and probably keep away all the people that do this just for the desctruction/theft of caches, coins, tbs, etc.

For only $3/month I would have to agree.

Posted February 18, 2007 · February 18, 2007

I know im going to be shot up like a buck on opening day deer season, but i think that dues should be paid for this game. Just like soccer football, etc, all sports have a yearly/seasonal fee. I think everyone should have to pay, and everyone be equal. This would help Groundspeak out, and probably keep away all the people that do this just for the desctruction/theft of caches, coins, tbs, etc.

Tell me about it. The "entitlement generation" has discovered Geocaching. :huh: That is why we have threads like, "it's not fair, premium members get the FTFs, boo hoo," and, "PMOC are elitist, this is a free game, I don't care who pays for the site upkeep, I should be able to find all caches."

I remember how hard it was to find new caches (for FTF chances) before instant notification. Dont forget people all the 5 star terrain caches, and 5 star puzzle caches, exclude more people than PMOCs do.

Edited February 18, 2007 by Kit Fox

Posted February 18, 2007 · February 18, 2007

I know im going to be shot up like a buck on opening day deer season, but i think that dues should be paid for this game. Just like soccer football, etc, all sports have a yearly/seasonal fee. I think everyone should have to pay, and everyone be equal. This would help Groundspeak out, and probably keep away all the people that do this just for the desctruction/theft of caches, coins, tbs, etc.

Tell me about it. The "entitlement generation" has discovered Geocaching. That is why we have threads like, "it's not fair, premium members get the FTFs, boo hoo," and, "PMOC are elitist, this is a free game, I don't care who pays for the site upkeep, I should be able to find all caches."

I remember how hard it was to find new caches (for FTF chances) before instant notification. Dont forget people all the 5 star terrain caches, and 5 star puzzle caches, exclude more people than PMOCs do.

Yep, i hate seeing all the whining over the moochers. I think Jeremy and the rest of Groundspeak should strongly consider dues. geocaching.com costs lots of money im sure to run, and if the people who are just taking up bandwith would be eliminated, the site would run better etc. Also if dues were collected, Groundspeak would have better site speed, and they would have more money for other great perks. I personally think dues are a must, but thats just me, and everyone should then have the same perks if dues were colelcted.

Posted February 18, 2007 · February 18, 2007

I think Jeremy and the rest of Groundspeak should strongly consider dues.

He can't. He made a promise when first starting geocaching.com that the basic information would always be available for free.

Have you folks ever read the history of geocaching?

The establishment of MOCs caused quite a stir, since it appeared to violate this promise, but Groundspeak made the (quite convincing) argument that the site was not restricting the availability of the cache information; that decision was made entirely by the cache hiders, who, of course, have the right to restrict the information any way they want.

But, MOCs aside, I seriously doubt that geocaching.com will ever become a pay-only site.

Posted February 18, 2007 · February 18, 2007

What the Non-Members forget...is that they are using a Private (Not Public) computer system...and then complain that they want more for FREE.

Now that the system is getting overloaded (System Busy Errors)...maybe it is time for these free-loaders to cough up the $30 bucks a year to help support this sport....and if they are not willing to do this...then either find another sport or start your own Non-Member Caching site...and see how long you can support Non-Dues to pay for your system problems.

If you can't afford $30 bucks a YEAR...then you have deeper problems.

Caches for Premium Members Only

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