Obtaining Permission for Placement on a Commercial Property

[+Team GeoBlast]

I originally set out to approach my local WalMart manager to obtain explicit permission to place a Geocache on WalMart property.. Like any permission request I have ever made, some preparation was needed. In this preparation, I began to search the internet and Geocacing.com for any groundwork that had already been done and came up empty.

 

While there are several excellent policy resources available such as Geocaching Policies.org for obtaining permission to hide Geocaches on public lands, I quickly realized that very little reference material is available for Geocaches hidden in an urban environment but I could find nothing specifically for CPCs (Commercial Property Caches). After investing over 40 hours in preparation to my approach the store manager for permission, I am pretty convinced that it is the complexity of issues that surround this type of hide that makes it a common occurance for cache hiders to skip the required permission process. Because these hides seem to be gaining popularity, I have decided to chronicle my attempt in hopes that I might provide a starting place for others seeking to do this.

 

I am at a place now where I would like some input from other cachers before I proceed in actually asking the manager for permission.. I have put together a blog that details my research and fieldwork up to this point and I would like invite anyone who has an honest interest in this process to contact me via my GC.com profile to get the URL address to it. If you do not feel that obtaining specific permission from a local store manager of a big box retailer is in accordance with GC.com policy, of course you are welcome to post your thoughts here in this thread. However, I do not want to open this discussion up off line so I can stay on track. When the effort is over and I have reviewed my progress, or lack thereof, I will make the URL public if it is deemed to be useful.

 

Of course, I'd like to hear from -anyone- who has approached a national big box retailer for permission but anyone with good intentions is invited to review my work and offer input on the Blog itself.

Edited March 22, 2007 by Team GeoBlast

[+wesleykey]

You can get permission from the store manager, but the cart pushers and those taking trash to the dumpster are the employees who will see cachers and suspect them of evil. This is one reason no one asks for permission. I asked for permission to place a cache at a retirement home, and six weeks later they simply told me they were "awaiting management decision". After pressuring them to say yes or no, they let me know that their land was "not for recreation" and to try a city park...... Had I placed the cache without asking they probably would have never known or cared.

[+StarBrand]

How about we just find better places to hide caches other than "big-box" stores?

 

Having said that, I think you will find the Corporate structure a daunting jungle to penetrate. Each one is different and varibly complex. In the end, local store managers have little or no actual authority to grant permission and the corporate uppers will block anything they don't understand. A journey not for the faint of heart awaits. You will in all likelyhood NEVER receive a good response to such an inquiry.

 

That is why and where many would invoke the slightly "under-the-table" frisbee rule.

[+Team GeoBlast]

How about we just find better places to hide caches other than "big-box" stores?

 

Having said that, I think you will find the Corporate structure a daunting jungle to penetrate. Each one is different and varibly complex. In the end, local store managers have little or no actual authority to grant permission and the corporate uppers will block anything they don't understand. A journey not for the faint of heart awaits. You will in all likelyhood NEVER receive a good response to such an inquiry.

 

That is why and where many would invoke the slightly "under-the-table" frisbee rule.

 

I choose to remain positive about my chances. There has been a lot of discussion in other threads about going up the corporate ladder and if the store manager even has the authority to grant permission. This is one question I hope to answer for others or at least give them another experience to draw on.

 

I also consider this a true test of my hiding ability to use a WalMart property in a memorable cache that will not generate a string of "found it" logs.

[+Renegade Knight]

You asked.

 

First, don't dictate the terms of permission. Explicit permission means one thing to you, but your real job in this quest is permission for the cache in whatever form the store manager or whoever else has the authority will give it.

 

Second. The store manager is concerned with the big picture. If you have to sell them on the cache you are not going to do it by selling them on the fact that a lamp post skirt lifts. You have to place that cache in their mind such that it fits their goals for the store. You could get a manager who likes caching and never saw the worthyness of their parking lot.

 

Third. Make it easy for them to say yes. Just like you should have made it easy for those of us replying to look at the work you have done. I'm not going to PM you, email you or otherwise spend any more time than the break I now have on this. A link would have made it easy to look at the prep work you have done.

 

Other advice was already given in the thread that spawned your quest. It's not bad advice and if you are not in a position to do that, then perhaps part of your quest could be to find the person who is.

 

Is your real goal a cache with explicit permission on a wally world lot? or is your real goal YOUR cache with permission for YOU in that wally world? There is a difference and you have a higher risk of failure if you don't bow out to the better qualified person. If nobody else knows the manager personally...then it probably doesn't matter who goes.

[+Team GeoBlast]

You asked.

 

First, don't dictate the terms of permission. Explicit permission means one thing to you, but your real job in this quest is permission for the cache in whatever form the store manager or whoever else has the authority will give it.

 

Second. The store manager is concerned with the big picture. If you have to sell them on the cache you are not going to do it by selling them on the fact that a lamp post skirt lifts. You have to place that cache in their mind such that it fits their goals for the store. You could get a manager who likes caching and never saw the worthyness of their parking lot.

 

Third. Make it easy for them to say yes. Just like you should have made it easy for those of us replying to look at the work you have done. I'm not going to PM you, email you or otherwise spend any more time than the break I now have on this. A link would have made it easy to look at the prep work you have done.

 

Other advice was already given in the thread that spawned your quest. It's not bad advice and if you are not in a position to do that, then perhaps part of your quest could be to find the person who is.

 

Is your real goal a cache with explicit permission on a wally world lot? or is your real goal YOUR cache with permission for YOU in that wally world? There is a difference and you have a higher risk of failure if you don't bow out to the better qualified person. If nobody else knows the manager personally...then it probably doesn't matter who goes.

 

All good constructive comments.. I am glad I asked

 

I'm not at all insulted that you don't want to contribute anymore to this effort than posting your thoughts here. I appreciate your general opinion about the subject while not addressing the specific details of my particular quest for permission. I've already gotten a three requests from people that are generally interested in the process and want to see something positive generated so I don't think numbers will be a problem. I've generated a lot of material and going through it is a time investment that I don't expect everyone to want to make.

 

In answer to your last question about my real intention. I am approaching a local WalMart as an individual game player to seek permission for a local hide. I'm not sure what you mean by bowing out to a better qualified person but I can assure that have sought and obtained some pretty difficult to obtain local permissions in the past. However, if a better qualified person was available and wanted to do this, I'd gladly step aside. If I knew a cacher that actually knew the manager and wanted to place a cache there, that would be awesome. But I don't.

[+Mudfrog]

I ended up winning a nano type cache container at an event so i felt obligated to place it. Figured it would be best suited in an urban environment so i thought that the local big chain sporting goods store might work. I simply went inside and asked to talk to the store manager about it. We talked, i explained geocaching, then we both picked out a spot to hide it. He also said that he would let his employees know about the hide. It's been there for a few months now and except for replacing the full logscroll, it's done great. Havn't had any problems with employee encounters that i know of either!

 

By the way, it's not an lpc...

[+Too Tall John]

I ended up winning a nano type cache container at an event so i felt obligated to place it. Figured it would be best suited in an urban environment so i thought that the local big chain sporting goods store might work. I simply went inside and asked to talk to the store manager about it. We talked, i explained geocaching, then we both picked out a spot to hide it. He also said that he would let his employees know about the hide. It's been there for a few months now and except for replacing the full logscroll, it's done great. Havn't had any problems with employee encounters that i know of either!

 

By the way, it's not an lpc...

 

This is some good information to have. Which chain was it?

[+Knight2000]

Maybe i am reading some of the replies wrong. If i am, my apologies.

 

But, i dont like that it seems some are saying to place these type of caches without permission.

 

By submitting a cache listing, you assure us that you have adequate permission to hide your cache in the selected location.

 

If you dont have permission and you submit the cache not only are you disrespecting the sport and possibly causing problems for the rest of the group, but you are also proving yourself a liar.

 

Is there a code of conduct for Geocaching.com members anywhere?

[+Renegade Knight]

....

By submitting a cache listing, you assure us that you have adequate permission to hide your cache in the selected location.

.

...

 

Adequate permissoin is all that is ever needed.

[+Team GeoBlast]

I ended up winning a nano type cache container at an event so i felt obligated to place it. Figured it would be best suited in an urban environment so i thought that the local big chain sporting goods store might work. I simply went inside and asked to talk to the store manager about it. We talked, i explained geocaching, then we both picked out a spot to hide it. He also said that he would let his employees know about the hide. It's been there for a few months now and except for replacing the full logscroll, it's done great. Havn't had any problems with employee encounters that i know of either!

 

By the way, it's not an lpc...

 

Awesome!

 

The store I am considering is an absolutely massive Superstore and I am afraid (although I do not know for sure) that my permission is going to be a little more complicated. There's a few issues that I have identified already. Would you like to take a few minutes to read my blog that chronicles what I have done so far? I will be happy to send you a link.

 

At a minimum, if the store was a national chain, I'd like if you would let me know the name of the store so that I can mention it in my presentation.

[TEAM NICKELBACKERS]

Puleez, no more Walmart caches!!!! If Walmart was smart, they would hide thier own caches at every store....oh, right...it's already done. Spend your time on a wonderful quality cache, everyone will thank you for it. You will also feel much better about yourself. and we will all think much better of you. I am so sick of lame caches, I could vomit. If you planned on a very cool Walmart cache (other than a lampost), that might be different. Good luck on permission.

[+Too Tall John]

Maybe i am reading some of the replies wrong. If i am, my apologies.

 

But, i dont like that it seems some are saying to place these type of caches without permission.

 

By submitting a cache listing, you assure us that you have adequate permission to hide your cache in the selected location.

 

If you dont have permission and you submit the cache not only are you disrespecting the sport and possibly causing problems for the rest of the group, but you are also proving yourself a liar.

 

Is there a code of conduct for Geocaching.com members anywhere?

 

There are those who would tell you they can place a cache without permission because the guidelines say "adequate permission." Somehow they think that they get to decide what "adequate permission" is. Truly, only the landowner can determine what "adequate permission" is, and the only way to know is to ask.

 

Others hold that the only way that "no permission" is "adequate permission" is if you already had the right to place a cache. In the case of private property (which a store parking lot IS), you don't have that right unless it is your property or the landowner has given blanket permission in the past.

 

You can read all about that debate here and here. Both threads are really long.

 

This thread spun off the 2nd thread because Team GeoBlast is putting to practice one of the hypothetical situations argued back & forth in both threads: "Is it possible to get appropriate permission to place a cache on the property of a large corporation? (Wal-Mart, specifically)"

 

Having worked for Wal-Mart for 10 years in management, I agree with StarBrand's prediction, but I'm offering whatever insight TGB asks for in his quest to place this cache.

[+Team GeoBlast]

Maybe i am reading some of the replies wrong. If i am, my apologies.

 

But, i dont like that it seems some are saying to place these type of caches without permission.

 

By submitting a cache listing, you assure us that you have adequate permission to hide your cache in the selected location.

 

If you dont have permission and you submit the cache not only are you disrespecting the sport and possibly causing problems for the rest of the group, but you are also proving yourself a liar.

 

Is there a code of conduct for Geocaching.com members anywhere?

 

Yes, you did misinterpret what I am planning on doing. I agree with you 100%.

 

I am preparing to ask permission to place a cache on the property of a WalMart store and hopefully document the steps that I took so others might benefit from it. I do not agree with anyone placing a geocache without permission but from reading through many posts on this forum, I think it is pretty widely accepted that there are caches on Walmart's property that have been placed without permission. I merely said that I understand better (not condone it) now why they skipped the process because I am doing what I feel is the proper preparation for asking for permission.

[+Too Tall John]

Puleez, no more Walmart caches!!!! If Walmart was smart, they would hide thier own caches at every store....oh, right...it's already done. Spend your time on a wonderful quality cache, everyone will thank you for it. You will also feel much better about yourself. and we will all think much better of you. I am so sick of lame caches, I could vomit. If you planned on a very cool Walmart cache (other than a lampost), that might be different. Good luck on permission.

Have no fear! Unless plans have changed, TGB's Wal-Mart cache is the 1st stage of a multi, incorporated into the theme of the cache by a clever (enough) play on words.

 

Edited to add: Hey TGB! How 'bout that blog link?

Edited March 23, 2007 by Too Tall John

[+Knight2000]

Yes, you did misinterpret what I am planning on doing. I agree with you 100%.

 

I respect what you are trying to do. I was not referring to your original post but to some of those that replied after you.

 

I am glad to see what you are doing and look forward to finding out what reply you get from the store manager.

[+Team GeoBlast]

Puleez, no more Walmart caches!!!! If Walmart was smart, they would hide thier own caches at every store....oh, right...it's already done. Spend your time on a wonderful quality cache, everyone will thank you for it. You will also feel much better about yourself. and we will all think much better of you. I am so sick of lame caches, I could vomit. If you planned on a very cool Walmart cache (other than a lampost), that might be different. Good luck on permission.

 

This is going to end at a beautiful waterfall in Hawaii. I have enough of the framework complete so the cache will be a true selling point when I ask for permission. How many WalMart caches have you found?

[+briansnat]

OK, say you get permission from the store manager. A year later there is a new manager who knows nothing about the cache. Do you still have permission?

[+Mudfrog]

OK, say you get permission from the store manager. A year later there is a new manager who knows nothing about the cache. Do you still have permission?

 

These things can always happen. At a private location, a commercial establishment, or even a state park. The way i look at it, i got permission when i placed it and i have the manager's name. While that won't guarantee the caches permanance, i think it does help to keep me and any finders off the hook with a trespassing charge.

 

BTW, Gander Mountain is the store i chose to place this cache at.

[+Too Tall John]

OK, say you get permission from the store manager. A year later there is a new manager who knows nothing about the cache. Do you still have permission?

A good point. The store manager will be more aware of this possibility than anyone else and will likely look to store policy to help establish their answer when asked for permission. The new manager will have bigger things they've got to deal with and will likely not really care as long as the former manager was following policy.

 

This same question could be used to call into question any cache placed on private property, or even public property where a land manager was approached for permission.

[+Renegade Knight]

... This is going to end at a beautiful waterfall in Hawaii. I have enough of the framework complete so the cache will be a true selling point when I ask for permission. How many WalMart caches have you found?

 

If the location is by waters of the US typically public access is allowed and possibly under Army Corps of Engineers Jurisdiction.

 

It's going to depend on the particulars.

 

If the starting point is a parking lot, I'm not sure it's a better cache than just cutting to the chase.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Am I the only one who believes that he's pulling this stunt specifically to get a WalMart policy BANNING geocaches on their properties?

 

Maybe I'm wrong. Hope so. Doubt it, though.

 

I see it as the most likely result, cascading down to all commercial property caches.

 

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[+sbell111]

You're not the only one. I'm counting on middle-management flunky laziness to keep the banning from happening.

[Mushtang]

Am I the only one who believes that he's pulling this stunt specifically to get a WalMart policy BANNING geocaches on their properties?

 

Maybe I'm wrong. Hope so. Doubt it, though.

 

I see it as the most likely result, cascading down to all commercial property caches.

 

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I don't think anything he says to a local Wal-Mart manager would result in a nationwide ban.

 

However, even if it does somehow happen to this particular chain of stores, it's not like it'll be the end of LPCs, CPCs, or any other kind of hide that he was so against in the original two threads. If this is what he's trying to do it won't happen.

 

And it certainly won't result in gc.com being shut down.

 

No worries.

[+Team GeoBlast]

OK, say you get permission from the store manager. A year later there is a new manager who knows nothing about the cache. Do you still have permission?

 

Baby steps. I've got to get permission first to know this. In my research into WalMart and their community involvement, they seem to have a pretty good outreach. One of the strategies that I will use to try to get them involved in our annual CITO event so they can see the numbers of consumers we represent and have the opportunity to shine in front of them. Of course, this will be a built in lead in if the store manager is replaced.

[+Team GeoBlast]

Am I the only one who believes that he's pulling this stunt specifically to get a WalMart policy BANNING geocaches on their properties?

 

Maybe I'm wrong. Hope so. Doubt it, though.

 

I see it as the most likely result, cascading down to all commercial property caches.

 

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

I'm not willing to wait until it's broke.

 

I think when you see the final collaboration, this concern should go away if you looking at it objectively. Even if I don't succeed, the information will hopefully be useful to the next person that attempts to get permission to place a CPC. My goal is to make this a little easier for people to try so they will actually try instead of assuming they have permission to do as they please on somebody else's property.

 

My effort and intentions are 100% positive and geared toward success. ....because that is what I believe that is what GC.com meant here when they are talking about asking for permission to place a cache on private property.

 

Will it be on private or public land? - If you place it on private land, please ask permission before putting it there!

 

Maybe you'd consider actually -doing- something for the good of the game too?

[+Team GeoBlast]

... This is going to end at a beautiful waterfall in Hawaii. I have enough of the framework complete so the cache will be a true selling point when I ask for permission. How many WalMart caches have you found?

 

If the location is by waters of the US typically public access is allowed and possibly under Army Corps of Engineers Jurisdiction.

 

It's going to depend on the particulars.

 

If the starting point is a parking lot, I'm not sure it's a better cache than just cutting to the chase.

 

The cache is going to start on WalMart property and the final will be a secret waterfall that is not listed in the guidebooks. This is a place that only locals know about and it will be the highlight of many visitors that seek it out. The framework is done and once we go through the process, I'll be happy to post a link to it if it gets approved.

 

I suppose I should issue an advance warning.. it's 78 degrees today with a mild tradewind coming off the ocean... when you see the photos on the cache page, you might find yourself yearning for a trip to islands

[+sbell111]

I'm not willing to wait until it's broke.

 

I think when you see the final collaboration, this concern should go away if you looking at it objectively. Even if I don't succeed, the information will hopefully be useful to the next person that attempts to get permission to place a CPC. My goal is to make this a little easier for people to try so they will actually try instead of assuming they have permission to do as they please on somebody else's property.

 

My effort and intentions are 100% positive and geared toward success. ....because that is what I believe that is what GC.com meant here when they are talking about asking for permission to place a cache on private property.

 

Will it be on private or public land? - If you place it on private land, please ask permission before putting it there!

 

Maybe you'd consider actually -doing- something for the good of the game too?

This holier than thou attitude is getting just a tad old.

[+sbell111]

Won't we all get a chuckle if the manager says, 'Why should I care? I don't even know why you're asking.'

[+Renegade Knight]

....Will it be on private or public land? - If you place it on private land, please ask permission before putting it there! ...

 

Public or private I tend to place caches in locations of public accomodation, or public use regardless of the accomodation policy of the missing owner since that public use becomes an enforcable easement after a certain amount of time.

 

Permission is not as simple or absolute as some would like to make it. It's also not as complex as some of us like to argue it is.

[+Renegade Knight]

Won't we all get a chuckle if the manager says, 'Why should I care? I don't even know why you're asking.'

 

Here is another irony for you since it's your day to peg my irony meter.

 

Even if Coroprate HQ hates caches with a passion, they are better off claiming to have given permission to all caches place on all their property even if it's not true since tt gives them better standing if they ever do want to say "No".

[+flask]

i have a cache on commercial property (it took some doing to find out who the landowner was) and i had one denied on commercial property.

 

it is my opinion that it's in walmart's interest to have NO OFFICIAL POLICY in order to maintain maximum flexibility and minimum liabiltity.

 

the fact that there are already caches without permission is not reason enough for people to refrain from doing the right thinng and starting to ask permission.

 

and is for some reason every lamppost cache on the planet had to disappear i fail to see why it's a tragedy. sure. i find them sometimes. i wouldn't miss them much, though.

 

what i WOULD miss is geocaching in general; the larger it gets, the more important it's going to be to work with land managers.

[+Team GeoBlast]

I'm not willing to wait until it's broke.

 

I think when you see the final collaboration, this concern should go away if you looking at it objectively. Even if I don't succeed, the information will hopefully be useful to the next person that attempts to get permission to place a CPC. My goal is to make this a little easier for people to try so they will actually try instead of assuming they have permission to do as they please on somebody else's property.

 

My effort and intentions are 100% positive and geared toward success. ....because that is what I believe that is what GC.com meant here when they are talking about asking for permission to place a cache on private property.

 

Will it be on private or public land? - If you place it on private land, please ask permission before putting it there!

 

Maybe you'd consider actually -doing- something for the good of the game too?

This holier than thou attitude is getting just a tad old.

 

I can only hope that somewhere along the way to 20,000 posts you will stop and ask yourself, "what am I -actually doing- that is positive for the game?" As for dragging me back down to your level with comments like this, I am sorry but I not going down there again.

 

Sorry.

[+geomann1]

Public or private I tend to place caches in locations of public accomodation, or public use regardless of the accomodation policy of the missing owner since that public use becomes an enforcable easement after a certain amount of time.

 

Permission is not as simple or absolute as some would like to make it. It's also not as complex as some of us like to argue it is.

 

And if the caches are placed and searched for intelligently there is no problem. After all the placing of the cache, its existence, and cachers searching for its should not be noticed!

 

The problem is thoughtless cache placers and seekers, not permission. Just a little bit of common sense goes along way.

[+Team GeoBlast]

Public or private I tend to place caches in locations of public accomodation, or public use regardless of the accomodation policy of the missing owner since that public use becomes an enforcable easement after a certain amount of time.

 

Permission is not as simple or absolute as some would like to make it. It's also not as complex as some of us like to argue it is.

 

And if the caches are placed and searched for intelligently there is no problem. After all the placing of the cache, its existence, and cachers searching for its should not be noticed!

 

The problem is thoughtless cache placers and seekers, not permission. Just a little bit of common sense goes along way.

 

I agree with this to a point. A good cache placement can protect some cachers that have not mastered stealth. To paraphrase Forest Gump ... "Placing a cache is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you are going to get."

[+sbell111]

I'm not willing to wait until it's broke.

 

I think when you see the final collaboration, this concern should go away if you looking at it objectively. Even if I don't succeed, the information will hopefully be useful to the next person that attempts to get permission to place a CPC. My goal is to make this a little easier for people to try so they will actually try instead of assuming they have permission to do as they please on somebody else's property.

 

My effort and intentions are 100% positive and geared toward success. ....because that is what I believe that is what GC.com meant here when they are talking about asking for permission to place a cache on private property.

 

Will it be on private or public land? - If you place it on private land, please ask permission before putting it there!

 

Maybe you'd consider actually -doing- something for the good of the game too?

This holier than thou attitude is getting just a tad old.

I can only hope that somewhere along the way to 20,000 posts you will stop and ask yourself, "what am I -actually doing- that is positive for the game?" As for dragging me back down to your level with comments like this, I am sorry but I not going down there again.

 

Sorry.

I accept your apology.

 

Perhaps you could start a new 'What are you doing for geocaching thread. Those are among my personal faves.

[+DocDiTTo]

Am I the only one who believes that he's pulling this stunt specifically to get a WalMart policy BANNING geocaches on their properties?

 

You say that as if it would be a bad thing.

Edited March 23, 2007 by DocDiTTo

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

Am I the only one who believes that he's pulling this stunt specifically to get a WalMart policy BANNING geocaches on their properties?

You say that as if it would be a bad thing.

[Mr.Yuck]

Am I the only one who believes that he's pulling this stunt specifically to get a WalMart policy BANNING geocaches on their properties?

 

You say that as if it would be a bad thing.

 

Indeed. Where's Track in the box when you need him anyways?

[+Too Tall John]

Won't we all get a chuckle if the manager says, 'Why should I care? I don't even know why you're asking.'

Frankly, I'd be less surprised if the manager took off his mask, "Mission Impossible" style, to reveal his true identity is Jeremy Irish.

 

Comments like this are an attempt to try to minimize the very real concerns about CPCs placed without permission. You accuse TGB of being holier than thou, I suggest your attitude of "There's no way in heck you are right" is a far worse attitude to have. At least TGB has admitted that there is a possibility that Wal-Mart will have no problem with a geocache; in fact, he's banking on it with the work he's doing for this cache placement. He's willing to admit he may be wrong. You are not. Who's being holier than thou now?

[+Too Tall John]

and is for some reason every lamppost cache on the planet had to disappear i fail to see why it's a tragedy. sure. i find them sometimes. i wouldn't miss them much, though.

 

I wouldn't either. Some would. I'd rather they are able to continue enjoying them.

 

what i WOULD miss is geocaching in general; the larger it gets, the more important it's going to be to work with land managers.

 

YES!

 

I highlighted the important bit here. This is most certainly true. If Wal-Mart bans geocaching, I won't miss the LPCs in their lots, but they won't do it quietly. When the landowner down the street gets approached for permission afterwards, they'll remember hearing about geocaching getting banned in the news, and if they don't think twice about giving that cacher permission it's because they say "NO!"

Edited March 24, 2007 by Too Tall John

[+durango0072]

hey i had a thought ,doesnt walmart sell GPS equipment ,and we buy from them ,how would it look for any retailer who sells GPS systems 2 say no 2 people who buy them ,they can say no but they will have 2 take that into consideration .

[Clan Riffster]

Am I the only one who believes that he's pulling this stunt specifically to get a WalMart policy BANNING geocaches on their properties?

Nope. There seem to be a couple more with this belief. I, for one, don't think that this is his objective. I honestly believe he's oriented on a goal, to whit; getting explicit permission from Wally World for a cache, and creating a journal reflecting his efforts, which future CPC hiders can refer to in their attempts. No need to break out the Elvis sightings, black helicopters or tin foil hats. Sometimes the truth is just what it appears to be, without any secret squirrel, nefarious undertones.

[+Team GeoBlast]

hey i had a thought ,doesnt walmart sell GPS equipment ,and we buy from them ,how would it look for any retailer who sells GPS systems 2 say no 2 people who buy them ,they can say no but they will have 2 take that into consideration .

 

It's a good thought and yes they do sell GPS equipment. The one we are targeting sells units for cars only but you can bet the numbers of geocachers in our area and the undeniable fact that they all will or did purchase a GPS will come into the conversation when discussing the pros of supporting geocaching in our neighborhood. We will offer information to who their competitors are and why pretty much everyone here is purchasing from the internet.

Edited March 25, 2007 by Team GeoBlast

[+Too Tall John]

hey i had a thought ,doesnt walmart sell GPS equipment ,and we buy from them ,how would it look for any retailer who sells GPS systems 2 say no 2 people who buy them ,they can say no but they will have 2 take that into consideration .

 

The markup (profit, margin, difference between wholesale & retail) on a GPS is ok, but due to competition & price controls in place by the manufacturers, isn't as high as the markup on the other stuff geocachers buy on a regular basis: batteries, plasticware, and little toys. It can't hurt to mention the GPS sales, but the manager will be more impressed with the everyday purchases. As a reference for other geocachers, stressing the small stuff will be more helpful as well, because some of the smaller stores (like the nearest one to me) do not carry any gps equipment.

[+halffast]

All this wal-mart talk is stange to me.Maybe I live in some stange part of the world.We have a walmart in town but no cache there.Hopefully it will stay that way.I have only logged one Wally World cache.It was in Spokane Wa. but it wasnt even on Walmarts Land.It was in a wooded area behind the store and was a regular sized container.I dont think it would be much fun finding alot of LPCs but the OP is making his LPC the first stage of a multi that will end at a cool location.I think this is a great idea and if all LPCs would do this they would not be LAME.Just my oppinion.

[+Mudfrog]

I appreciate what the op is trying to do but at the same time, not understanding what all the fuss seems to be about. Maybe his atttempt is focused on going to the top dog and getting blanket permission from Walmart but if not, i don't really see any specialized or long drawn out procedure for getting permission from the local store. It seems simple enough to just go inside the store, find the manager, and ask. Please forgive me if i am missing something, it may just be that i'm not seeing the whole picture here.

[+Team GeoBlast]

I appreciate what the op is trying to do but at the same time, not understanding what all the fuss seems to be about. Maybe his atttempt is focused on going to the top dog and getting blanket permission from Walmart but if not, i don't really see any specialized or long drawn out procedure for getting permission from the local store. It seems simple enough to just go inside the store, find the manager, and ask. Please forgive me if i am missing something, it may just be that i'm not seeing the whole picture here.

 

That's a legit question and I agree with you, asking for explicit permission from a responsible party should be something that is second nature to any cacher who is considering putting a cache on the property of a Big Box retailer or a WalMart store. Because this particular topic has been batted around almost every day for months in these forums -and not- one person has stepped up and said they have actually obtained explicit permission from a national chain, we are making the logical assumption that there's a reasonable percentage of cachers that skip this requirement and just check the box. Part of the exercise is to try to understand why that might be and we're getting a pretty good handle on that.

 

Assuming that there's a growing number of "don't ask, don't tell" hides on Big Box Retailers property, a few things set them apart from other urban landowners if things when south. It's the opinion of some, that this could pose a potential large scale problem (read ban) if discovered by one of these national chains and it was confirmed that a very small percentage of these hides were placed with knowledge of their store personnel. All of the news lately of hides in the news that were mistaken for bombs, drugs or whatever has brought this concern to the forefront.

[+Renegade Knight]

That walmart selling a GPS angle is a good one. I do stop by the GPS rack on occasion and am normally dispointed at what I see.

 

I doubt geocachers outnumber hunters but any geocaching GPS does the job for hunting. The Department Manager could probably be sold on geocaching and that's an in for higher approval power.

 

Oh, a demo unit loaded with a cache waypoint leading to a cache in the parking lot so people could help sell GPSs. People stealing the demo unit being the main probelm to solve.

Edited March 25, 2007 by Renegade Knight

[+Renegade Knight]

....That's a legit question and I agree with you, asking for explicit permission from a responsible party should be something that is second nature to any cacher who is considering putting a cache on the property of a Big Box retailer or a WalMart store....

 

That is where we don't agree. Adequate permssion is enough. Explicit may be too much, may not be needed or may not be available to be had. While adequate permmsion may be had.

 

Since we are on the topic.

 

Define Explicit Permission. This is a challenge to everone who says that's what we need. I doubt everone will agree on what exactly it is, but maybe I'm wrong.

 

My own definition of explicit permission is permission in writing from somenoe legally authorised to give said permission. Said permission would include a description of the property allowing the cache. It would also contain any restrictions. You could walk into court with your explicit permission and a Judge and Jury would agree that you had Explicit Permision for the cache in question.