Economics 101

[+Confucius' Cat]

This is a lesson for all those who just simply can't stand that there is some part of caching they "can't afford", like $30/year for a premium membership:

 

No one can afford every single thing they want. Even rich people have budgets- they decide how to spend their money before they spend it. They DECIDE what they can have and what they cannot. All-in-all, if there is any such thing as a "secret" of getting rich, that is it. Rich people (and those who eventually WILL be rich) know how to say "NO" to things they cannot afford and how to change their circumstances in order that they can at some point say "yes." In a word, successful people PRIORITIZE.

 

In the equation for managing one's money, there are basically two sides, the "in-come", or money that is taken in and the "out-go", or money that is paid out or spent.

 

When one wants something and needs money to get it they can get it by either increasing "in-come" or by decreasing "out-go" so as to have the money they need for the thing they want.

 

Quite simply (and I know those who whine in the forums about PMOCs will never admit it is "simple") if one wants something- anything- and does not have the money for it, there are five options:

 

1. Just say "NO!" and live without it. Certainly this is not the norm in our culture.

2. Steal it. Illegal, immoral and fraught with bad consequences, but it works.

3. Borrow the money. A very common method that eventually causes one's bankruptcy at worst and at best will serve to keep one poor and enslaved to their creditors

4. Say "NO" to something else and use the money that would have been spent on the thing one wants. A really hard thing for our latest "get it now" generations

5. Do something to earn or save more money. This too is really hard for the "entitlement" generations.

 

Of these possibilities, i would like to concentrate on 4 and 5 as these choices are the best over all in terms of long-term benefit and lack of serious drawbacks.

 

Let us therefore assume, for the sake of discussion, that one desires to get a premium membership so as to be able to seek PMOCs.

 

Using option 4: The simple economics of it is that the $30 per year amounts to approximately six #1 combos at McD's, or 10 packs of cigarettes, or 1 case of beer, or 1 fountain pop per day for a month, or the clipping of a week's worth of coupons from the Sunday paper and saving this amount of money on groceries. In short- saving $30 will take a minimum of (dirty word alert!) SACRIFICE for pretty much anyone in the U.S.

 

For those who don't want to SACRIFICE a pop a day to enjoy their sport more effectively, the other option, #5 is available. Of course this involves (another dirty word alert!) WORK:

 

Cutting the neighbour's lawn will earn about $30-$50. Cleaning a neighbour's house: $50 or more. Washing a car: $5-10. Dog sitting: $10-20/day. Delivering pizza: $50-150 per night.

 

Whining and wishing pays $0. Playing the lottery goes $1 per ticket (minimum) in the WRONG direction.

 

Oh and there is a 6th method:

 

Just hang around and participate in the class envy and complaining to TPTB (especially to your legislators) and within a generation or two it will not matter- we will be totally socialist and no one will have much of anything they want and barely what they need.

 

But at least there won't be those damned member's only caches!!!

 

Now, if only BIG BROTHER would give us all old first generation Garmins. Well, maybe at least a Silva compass and a piece of recycled paper on which to draw a map?

 

It is one thing to do without something one cannot afford. But it is quite another, in fact IMO, the epitome of immaturity and covetousness, to seek to deny that thing to everyone else just because one cannot afford it.

[+Team Perks]

Aw, geez. I just finished reading a 200-page book about mortgages and came in here to get away from economic principles.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Economics and weight control have an inverse relationship.

 

To lose weight reduce your input or increase your output.

 

To live within your means do the opposite.

 

Life is simple when you cut out the bullhonkery.

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

Thanks for the new thread, as I was worried that my reply would have gotten lost in the other one.

 

Consider for a moment that one may already be taking all or many of those steps and still be unable to afford $30.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Thanks for the new thread, as I was worried that my reply would have gotten lost in the other one.

 

Consider for a moment that one may already be taking all or many of those steps and still be unable to afford $30.

Unpossible. If you reduce spending or increase income you have a net positive balance.

 

Use it to pay your dues!

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

You may be unaware of just how much some are struggling for the simple esentials.

 

would you be able to scrape $3 out of a food budget of $5 for a week?

 

The "go without" option then becomes Plan A.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

You may be unaware of just how much some are struggling for the simple esentials.

 

would you be able to scrape $3 out of a food budget of $5 for a week?

 

The "go without" option then becomes Plan A.

 

Not to be insensitive to your plight, but Increase Your Income becomes Plan A.

 

Go Without is rarely a valid course over the long haul.

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

Thankfully, that is not my plight these days, as I have increased my income from the worst of those times. By "Plan A" I was only pointing to option 1 in the OP.

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

Make no mistake, I agree that if one cannot afford the membership (or believes so) that they should just get by without it.

[+briansnat]

You may be unaware of just how much some are struggling for the simple esentials.

 

would you be able to scrape $3 out of a food budget of $5 for a week?

 

The "go without" option then becomes Plan A.

 

If you have a $5 budget for food a week I don't think you should be out there buying high tech toys like GPS units.

[+Snoogans]

You may be unaware of just how much some are struggling for the simple esentials.

 

would you be able to scrape $3 out of a food budget of $5 for a week?

 

The "go without" option then becomes Plan A.

 

If you have a $5 budget for food a week I don't think you should be out there buying high tech toys like GPS units.

 

 

I knew someone would say that before I got a chance to.

 

 

Further, the cheapest internet I know of is $10 a month. If your total food budget is an unrealistic $20, you have some priority issues to get over. How much did your computer cost?

 

 

Well, my point is moot if you have a stolen laptop and you're cruising the free internet outside the Comfort Suites.... In that case, can I have my cache back?

[+Aiden's Cachers]

urther, the cheapest internet I know of is $10 a month.

Or I could take a stroll down to my library and get it for free

[+whistler & co.]

Face it, free internet at the library or not, geocaching involves a certain amount of expense. The GPS unit, batteries, gas money, etc. all cost money. And if by some chance you have a sugar-daddy (or sugar-mama, as the case may be) who gave you a GPS unit (with rechargable batteries, but you've still got to pay for that nasty electricity now, don't you?), and if you walk to all caches on foot, and if you use the library's internet to keep expense to a bare minimum, but you STILL have a $20 monthly food budget....well, maybe it's time to give up your dreams of becoming a premium member and start looking for a second job. Maybe all the free time you have to use for caching and posting on forums would be better used to earn money, or even to walk along the roadside looking for cans and bottles to return for deposit/recycling if you cannot find a job.

 

I'm not trying to be rude with this post, but just pointing out that basic survival (i.e. food, clothing, shelter, medical needs) should take precedence over entertainment, and anyone who can only afford $5 a week for FOOD yet still has the time to worry about not being privy to the longitutde and latitude of certain ammo cans hidden under certain piles of rocks, REALLY needs to rethink his/her priorities!

 

And while we're on the subject, I am unable to afford daily dining at Red Lobster. Thus, I demand that Red Lobster either lower their prices, or better yet, they should just close Red Lobster altogether! It really hurts my feeling when I am walking into Taco Bell to grab a few 99 cent soft tacos and I see people across the street walking into Red Lobster for their meals!

[+Kit Fox]

Great thread Confucious Cat!

 

I work full time to support a "stay at home" wife and two growing kids. I put in (on average) 32 to 48 hours of overtime per month on top of my 40 hours per week. This makes life far more "comfortable" when you love in an expensive state like California.

 

I'm still trying to convince my wife to sell her three horses and my daughter's pony, so I can geocache more often. I don't think this is going to happen, so I geocache within my allotted budget. I prefer to find caches that involve long hikes, but sadly most them require long drives to reach them. With the high cost of gas, and a budget to live within, i've significantly cut down the number of geocaches that I go and find.

 

I'd rather save money to go on one trip to find a great cache than find a bunch of park and grabs that don't entertain me. Call me cold-hearted, or an evil conservative, but I strongly oppose any entitlement for cachers who demand to find PMOCs without paying the "3 bucks." It's all about priorities, and making sacrifices in other places.

 

There are lots of activities that I would love to do, but are not in my current budget. Do I get mad because other people can afford rappelling gear, or who own expensive backpacking gear? The answer is a steadfast no.

 

Do I currently think cachers who don't pay for the premium membership are "bad?" No I don't, but I don't think they should complain because they can't find "every cache."

[+Mudfrog]

I still maintain that the biggest problem is that some people just want everything handed to them. In this case, premium membership here at GC.com. For whatever reason, they think they are entitled!

 

It's up to each person as to whether they want to buy membership or not. They have their reasons why they don't want to and that's fine. Just don't use the excuse that you can't afford it and then come in here complaining. The vast majority can easily scrape up this measely chump change, that is, if they really wanted to.

 

For you remaining few out there who seriously cannot afford the $30 a year. It's simple, you need to forget about geocaching for now and do something to improve your situation.

Edited June 14, 2007 by Mudfrog

[+Team Perks]

I probably pick up at about three bucks' worth of random change from the sidewalk each month. By simply being aware of my surroundings and putting forth no extra effort, I score enough free money that I could pay for my subscription with that spare change if I so chose.

 

It amazes me how many luxuries people think are true necessities. I drove by some public housing projects recently and marveled that although most of the occupants are probably on welfare, pretty much every unit had a shiny new DirecTV antenna poking out from the balconies. (But on the other hand, I suppose there aren't too many other places you can get unlimited entertainment for 50 bucks a month.)

 

I can't afford everything I would like. My wife and I had to cancel our summer vacation in order to pay other bills. Oh well. We'll get out there in a few years, and rather than complaining that we can't afford the several thousand dollars to take that trip right now, we're using the time off to simply enjoy relaxing closer to home.

 

That's what life is--a path of trade-offs, compromises, and "making do" with what you've got. Being angry at others for your predicament is baseless and unproductive.

[+webscouter.]

I think TPTB invented CITO to help those that can't afford premium membership. They made it hip to pick up aluminum cans in the name of cleaning up. I'm quite sure if I took my cans into a place that paid for them instead of just putting them in the recycle bin at home I could earn $3 a month.

[+StarBrand]

I think TPTB invented CITO to help those that can't afford premium membership. They made it hip to pick up aluminum cans in the name of cleaning up. I'm quite sure if I took my cans into a place that paid for them instead of just putting them in the recycle bin at home I could earn $3 a month.

Good point - the local recycle place is currently paying 69 cents a pound for crushed cans. Or about 43 pounds to the yearly fee. Or about 4.4 pounds per month. Easily done while out caching in certain areas.

[vtmtnman]

This is a lesson for all those who just simply can't stand that there is some part of caching they "can't afford", like $30/year for a premium membership:

 

No one can afford every single thing they want. Even rich people have budgets- they decide how to spend their money before they spend it. They DECIDE what they can have and what they cannot. All-in-all, if there is any such thing as a "secret" of getting rich, that is it. Rich people (and those who eventually WILL be rich) know how to say "NO" to things they cannot afford and how to change their circumstances in order that they can at some point say "yes." In a word, successful people PRIORITIZE.

 

<Snipped for shorterness>

 

It is one thing to do without something one cannot afford. But it is quite another, in fact IMO, the epitome of immaturity and covetousness, to seek to deny that thing to everyone else just because one cannot afford it.

This thread needs to be in the FAQs so we can be spared from the woah is me-ness.It's 30 dollars.Either cough up or stand down.

Life is simple when you cut out the bullhonkery.

Outstanding.I've found a new sig quote.

 

You may be unaware of just how much some are struggling for the simple esentials.

 

would you be able to scrape $3 out of a food budget of $5 for a week?

 

The "go without" option then becomes Plan A.

 

If you have a $5 budget for food a week I don't think you should be out there buying high tech toys like GPS units.

Basically!

 

Great thread Confucious Cat!

Ditto!

Call me cold-hearted, or an evil conservative, but I strongly oppose any entitlement for cachers who demand to find PMOCs without paying the "3 bucks." It's all about priorities, and making sacrifices in other places.

 

There are lots of activities that I would love to do, but are not in my current budget. Do I get mad because other people can afford rappelling gear, or who own expensive backpacking gear? The answer is a steadfast no.

 

Do I currently think cachers who don't pay for the premium membership are "bad?" No I don't, but I don't think they should complain because they can't find "every cache."

Basically what KF said.We're such cold hearted evil conservative cachers because we think people should do what they can afford.What WERE we thinking.

[+Thrak]

I don't feel so bad about my "evil" thoughts after reading this thread. $3 a month is less than a pack of smokes. I've known people in the past who have moaned and groaned about being poor but who always had cigarettes and (some of them) pot to smoke. It's priorities.

 

I can remember being VERY poor. I had a wife and a new baby and my car broke down. I bicycled across town to work - in the rain - for a month because I didn't have $10 for a set of points to fix the dang car. I didn't dream of wasting money on leisure items that I didn't need. I concentrated on taking care of business and improving my situation.

 

I'm in a whole different place now and can easily afford the membership fee but, if I couldn't, I would simply be grateful for the 99.9% of caches I could afford to find. There are other luxuries I would love to be able to afford and that I covet. I can't afford them but I don't complain bitterly about others who can. I don't think I'm being cheated. I just do without those things. I'm still happy.

[+Always & Forever 5]

I'm in a whole different place now and can easily afford the membership fee but, if I couldn't, I would simply be grateful for the 99.9% of caches I could afford to find. There are other luxuries I would love to be able to afford and that I covet. I can't afford them but I don't complain bitterly about others who can. I don't think I'm being cheated. I just do without those things. I'm still happy.

This is quite possibly the best post I've seen in a long time! Ditto!

[+Airhead-kb]

Early this morning, I was making my rounds at work and was asked by a guy at a corner if I could spare some change.

 

He has:

no credit card debt

no mortgage

no kids to feed, clothe and keep in vehicles and college.

no student loans

no car payments.

 

I have:

all of those things.

 

Yet, he's asking me for money.....

[+Team GeoBlast]

Make no mistake, I agree that if one cannot afford the membership (or believes so) that they should just get by without it.

 

Just the fact that you are participating in Geocaching at all given your current financial situation is hard for me to understand. Geocaching is a recreational activity that takes a lot of time if you add it all up. Sit down and do the math for a minute, add all of the computer time, planning and organizing, searching, traveling to and from caches, and then more computer time.

 

That's a lot of time!

 

How can you justify having all this time to invest in a recreational activity when you could be using it to better your situation? Why not go cold turkey for a while and use all of that time to improve things for you and your family?

Edited June 14, 2007 by Team GeoBlast

[+Mule Ears]

Congratulations on thoroughly eviscerating a straw man, folks. But you do realize that affordability has nothing to do with the complaints about PMOCs and membership fees, don't you?

 

The anti-PMOC crowd says, "I hate PMOCs" and offers the justification that some people cannot afford the $30/year membership. It's awfully easy to disprove that claim for 99.9% of plausible cases. The remaining 0.1% covers the case of some homeless guy who found a GPS, cadged some discarded batteries from the trash, and logs his finds through the library computer. He can't afford a membership, but then again he ought to be spending his time looking for work, collecting aluminum cans or selling plasma.

 

But affordability is only a justification, not a reason, so attacking it doesn't get us anywhere. The real reason some people hate PMOCs is that they dislike any 'class' distinction whatsoever, particularly one based on money. If the privilege of hiding PMOCs were reserved for those with more than 1000 finds, you'd still hear complaints. For those who've been caching for more than a year: complaints. For those who've hosted an event: complaints.

 

This mindset generally also has strong anti-capitalist leanings, so they're unhappy with the idea of Groundspeak making money. If GC were organized as a non-profit org aligned with anti-capitalist causes, a lot of the kvetching would fall silent. It's OK for the pigs to sleep in beds, after all...

 

This thread has been a great exercise, and has attracted lots of good essays, but it won't settle the anti-PMOC debate, because it's never been about affordability.

[+gh patriot]

 

Just hang around and participate in the class envy and complaining to TPTB (especially to your legislators) and within a generation or two it will not matter- we will be totally socialist and no one will have much of anything they want and barely what they need.

 

Amen

[+gh patriot]

Consider for a moment that one may already be taking all or many of those steps and still be unable to afford $30.

 

Now that's just funny.

[+Confucius' Cat]

I didn't dream of wasting money on leisure items that I didn't need. I concentrated on taking care of business and improving my situation.

 

Precisely! People are poor, at least in this country, because they CHOOSE to be poor. Some may not realise it, many THINK they are oppressed by "life" and the only hope is to maybe hit the lottery. But assuming they are not physically or mentally incapacitated, they are wrong... it is the CHOICES they have made and the CHOICES they continue to make that made them poor and are keeping them poor.

 

If one is living on the edge of poverty, one needs to be about the business, with the focus of a laser beam, of CHANGING those circumstances. If one is truly in those straits, I would seriously suggest financial counseling. It is readily available and in many cases without charge. One's local church or rescue mission would be a good place to start. If one in those circumstances is reading this, then I would suggest "Google" is your friend. Try "Daveramsey.com" for a start.

 

Anyone in the U.S. who truly cannot scrape up $3.00 per month has A FINANCIAL CRISIS and needs immediate HELP.

 

Early this morning, I was making my rounds at work and was asked by a guy at a corner if I could spare some change.

 

He has:

no credit card debt

no mortgage

no kids to feed, clothe and keep in vehicles and college.

no student loans

no car payments.

 

I have:

all of those things.

 

Yet, he's asking me for money.....

So, you then you add up your total debt, subtract your savings, and probably you can look that homeless person square in the eye and say, "Brother, you've got $50,000 more than I do!"

 

But affordability is only a justification, not a reason, so attacking it doesn't get us anywhere. The real reason some people hate PMOCs is that they dislike any 'class' distinction whatsoever, particularly one based on money. If the privilege of hiding PMOCs were reserved for those with more than 1000 finds, you'd still hear complaints. For those who've been caching for more than a year: complaints. For those who've hosted an event: complaints.

 

This mindset generally also has strong anti-capitalist leanings, so they're unhappy with the idea of Groundspeak making money. If GC were organized as a non-profit org aligned with anti-capitalist causes, a lot of the kvetching would fall silent. It's OK for the pigs to sleep in beds, after all...

 

This thread has been a great exercise, and has attracted lots of good essays, but it won't settle the anti-PMOC debate, because it's never been about affordability.

 

I think you are absolutely right.

[+Knight2000]

You may be unaware of just how much some are struggling for the simple esentials.

 

would you be able to scrape $3 out of a food budget of $5 for a week?

 

The "go without" option then becomes Plan A.

Exactly.

 

Some people just assume that you can just not go out to eat once a month or stop going to McDonalds. What if you dont go out to eat, ever?

[+Knight2000]

Further, the cheapest internet I know of is $10 a month. If your total food budget is an unrealistic $20, you have some priority issues to get over. How much did your computer cost?

Library= Free internet/computer where we live.

[+Kit Fox]

Further, the cheapest internet I know of is $10 a month. If your total food budget is an unrealistic $20, you have some priority issues to get over. How much did your computer cost?

Library= Free internet/computer where we live.

 

Thanks go to the taxpayers who subsidize your free internet. Should we subsidize every aspect of geocaching too?

 

Mule Ears,

 

I really enjoyed your response. Sadly this hobby appeals to a large spectrum of people, but agendas still "bleed through. " Especially from the entitlement / anti capitalists.

[+Mudfrog]

I didn't dream of wasting money on leisure items that I didn't need. I concentrated on taking care of business and improving my situation.

 

Precisely! People are poor, at least in this country, because they CHOOSE to be poor. Some may not realise it, many THINK they are oppressed by "life" and the only hope is to maybe hit the lottery. But assuming they are not physically or mentally incapacitated, they are wrong... it is the CHOICES they have made and the CHOICES they continue to make that made them poor and are keeping them poor.

 

If one is living on the edge of poverty, one needs to be about the business, with the focus of a laser beam, of CHANGING those circumstances. If one is truly in those straits, I would seriously suggest financial counseling. It is readily available and in many cases without charge. One's local church or rescue mission would be a good place to start. If one in those circumstances is reading this, then I would suggest "Google" is your friend. Try "Daveramsey.com" for a start.

 

Anyone in the U.S. who truly cannot scrape up $3.00 per month has A FINANCIAL CRISIS and needs immediate HELP.

 

Thank you! Darn, wish i knew how to put the that clapping hands smilie right here..

[+gh patriot]

Library= Free internet/computer where we live.

 

Thanks go to the taxpayers who subsidize your free internet. Should we subsidize every aspect of geocaching too?

 

 

Couldn't have said that better myself.

[+Knight2000]

So you two are saying that libraries are a bad thing?

 

I dont get that.

[+gh patriot]

So you two are saying that libraries are a bad thing?

 

I dont get that.

 

Unable to respond without a personal attack.

[+bwmick]

So you two are saying that libraries are a bad thing?

 

I dont get that.

 

OMG it's the elusive red herring...

[TheTodds]

I disagree that those who are poor choose to be poor, at least not all the time. If you haven't noticed there's a social and societal debt being racked up by the minute thanks to a variety of institutions - education being the one I'm heavily involved in. The American dream doesn't look the same to everyone who's here - illegal or legal. There's my political/social rant for today. Really it's much shorter than I would want it to be but really the picture is bigger than our narrow little minds can comprehend.

 

Libraries are for everyone, schools are for everyone. Feel free to come and learn, better yourself however you can.

 

Having just left the life-stage of copious amounts of disposable income and having come crashing into the post-graduate adult world of balancing work, graduate work, expenses and student loans in money and time measures I can see how so many people get caught up to their eyeballs in credit card debt and have to go cushion diving to pay their rent. Not that anything excuses them from their mismanagement of their money - oh no, certainly not.

 

I don't know how to sum it up into advice other than to just learn to be an informed consumer. You have a right to know, to ask all the questions that you want and to be curious when it comes to your every earned penny. Knowledge is power.

[TheTodds]

I disagree that those who are poor choose to be poor, at least not all the time. If you haven't noticed there's a social and societal debt being racked up by the minute thanks to a variety of institutions - education being the one I'm heavily involved in. The American dream doesn't look the same to everyone who's here - illegal or legal. There's my political/social rant for today. Really it's much shorter than I would want it to be but really the picture is bigger than our narrow little minds can comprehend.

 

Libraries are for everyone, schools are for everyone. Feel free to come and learn, better yourself however you can.

 

Having just left the life-stage of copious amounts of disposable income and having come crashing into the post-graduate adult world of balancing work, graduate work, expenses and student loans in money and time measures I can see how so many people get caught up to their eyeballs in credit card debt and have to go cushion diving to pay their rent. Not that anything excuses them from their mismanagement of their money - oh no, certainly not.

 

I don't know how to sum it up into advice other than to just learn to be an informed consumer. You have a right to know, to ask all the questions that you want and to be curious when it comes to your every earned penny. Knowledge is power.

[+Kit Fox]

So you two are saying that libraries are a bad thing?

 

I dont get that.

 

No,

 

You only inferred it as that. My point was your free internet access is payed for by someone else. Geocaching is also payed for by its customers (advertisers, premium members, and merchandise buyers) .

 

Should these customers also subsidize the regular members any more than they already do? Is it socialism you want, where everyone gets the same product?

[+gh patriot]

So you two are saying that libraries are a bad thing?

 

I dont get that.

 

No,

 

You only inferred it as that. My point was your free internet access is payed for by someone else. Geocaching is also payed for by its customers (advertisers, premium members, and merchandise buyers) .

 

Should these customers also subsidize the regular members any more than they already do? Is it socialism you want, where everyone gets the same product?

 

 

what he said.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

There are those among us who cannot, for whatever reason, make intelligent informed decisions. Fortunately we have any number of safety nets for them, and they must fall through a long series of such nets to become unsupported.

 

For the vast majority of us we have some capacity to make decisions that benefit us, or we can reach out to people who can help us make those decisions. In this caring, giving, loving nation we almost have to consciously make and carry out bad decisions to get truly poor.

 

My Grandmother, a school teacher for 60+ years, used to tell me "Poor folks have poor ways". As a kid I didn't know what to make of that, and wasn't sure that I believed it.

 

As an adult I had the opportunity to work with poor folk as a Case Monitor for our juvenile justice system, working with kids to integrate them back into home, school and community after they had spent a sentence in our lock-up school (A juvenile facility for providing housing and education for repeat-offenders). Ten years of that was enough, when I didn't see a single kid choose the path of education and work.

 

For years I hired day laborers for various jobs from a local pick-up corner where men would congregate to be picked up for a day's labor. They all have a story about how they ended up homeless and working the pick-up corner. Fine. I am fortunate to know a number of business owners, if the man was sober I would take him to such a place, get him a job busting tires at a freight company or operating a molding machine at a foundry, whatever - hard work with no real requirements other than hard work, but steady and at least minimum wage. Of the perhaps 20 men I did that for over the years 3 days, yes, 3 whole days, is the longest any one of the showed up! To this day I can get anyone a job in Birmingham, all they have to do is show up and do what they're told. I don't, because they won't!

 

Then I got into disaster relief as a ham operator and spent 5 weeks in Biloxi MS after Katrina. Long story short, the VAST majority were there because of poor choices, continued to make them, and if you once helped them you had taken them to raise!

 

So, sorry about the rant, but "Poor folks have poor ways" makes perfect sense today and I completely believe it!

 

I cannot imagine anyone being able to go on the internet, find a cache listing, use a GPS to go there, find and sign the log that cannot find a way to earn extra money. If you are capable of those things then you can certainly clean a neighbor's house gutters for the $30!

 

I also agree with previous posters who stated that the PMOC resentment has nothing whatsoever to do with money or the lack thereof!

Edited June 15, 2007 by TheAlabamaRambler

[vtmtnman]

For the vast majority of us we have some capacity to make decisions that benefit us, or we can reach out to people who can help us make those decisions. In this caring, giving, loving nation we almost have to consciously make and carry out bad decisions to get truly poor.

Outstanding observation.

[vtmtnman]

So you two are saying that libraries are a bad thing?

 

I dont get that.

 

No,

 

You only inferred it as that. My point was your free internet access is payed for by someone else. Geocaching is also payed for by its customers (advertisers, premium members, and merchandise buyers) .

 

Should these customers also subsidize the regular members any more than they already do? Is it socialism you want, where everyone gets the same product?

 

 

what he said.

Basically.

[+Knight2000]

No,

 

You only inferred it as that. My point was your free internet access is payed for by someone else. Geocaching is also payed for by its customers (advertisers, premium members, and merchandise buyers) .

 

Should these customers also subsidize the regular members any more than they already do? Is it socialism you want, where everyone gets the same product?

I just dont understand what you are saying then. Everyone who uses the library doesnt pay for it? What makes you think that I or anyone else that uses the library for internet/borrowing/dvd's whatever, doesnt pay for it?

 

I dont understand how this got turned into me though? In my area they dont let you use the computer at 1220am.

 

I just dont like it when people who really dont know what it is like to assume that they do.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

I just dont like it when people who really dont know what it is like to assume that they do.

 

Then don't assume that we don't!

 

I spent years recovering from a service injury and then a major car wreck, literally years in the hospital that bankrupted myself and my family (twice!), worked my way through college as I could, raised six kids, started and built a business all while in and out of the hospital for 42 bone graft surgeries over 20 years.

 

Yes, my home, lake place, 4 cars and all my toys are paid off now and I owe no one, but it was one hell of a road to get here!

 

Trust me, I know what broke is!

Edited June 15, 2007 by TheAlabamaRambler

[+briansnat]

So, sorry about the rant, but "Poor folks have poor ways" makes perfect sense today and I completely believe it!

 

If you took all the money in America and divided it up evenly among everyone, in 10 years the same people who are at the top now will be up there again and the same people who are at the bottom will be back there.

 

Trust me, I know what broke is!

 

As someone who spent an entire northeast winter in a house with only the heat from a small space heater because I couldn't afford heating oil, I know it too.

 

And it was nobody's fault but my own. Still, I think I could have have swung the 3 bucks for a premium membership back then. Hey, I always seemed to have enough to buy a six pack.

[+Knight2000]

Then don't assume that we don't!

Although i really didn't have you in mind, that is a good point.

 

You mentioned being hurt and running into hard times. Some of the suggestions here about just working harder to find more work really wouldn't have applied to you in your situation. Eventually things worked out for you, and i am glad for you.

 

But some have things that cannot be overcome.

[+briansnat]

But some have things that cannot be overcome.

 

 

I would think that geocaching would be the least of their worries then.

[nonaeroterraqueous]

My worst-case scenario was when I got laid-off for Christmas (what a year). I was behind on rent, and the bank took what was left of my money because I let it drop below $20. I'm still bitter about that. Nothing like trying to retrieve enough money for a meal than to find out that someone better-off took it all. I remember that month of riding my bike around applying anywhere and everywhere for a job, when some homeless guy came up to me and begged for money. I had exactly two cents and a Jolly Rancher to my name. I gave him the piece of candy. I had planned to eat that for lunch. I ended-up eating from the mercy of friends, and I eventually found a job.

 

Yeah, I can see myself getting all concerned about not being able to go after premium caches....Yeah, right.

[vtmtnman]

 

As someone who spent an entire northeast winter in a house with only the heat from a small space heater because I couldn't afford heating oil, I know it too.

 

Yikes... THAT sucks.

[vtmtnman]

My worst-case scenario was when I got laid-off for Christmas (what a year). I was behind on rent, and the bank took what was left of my money because I let it drop below $20. I'm still bitter about that. Nothing like trying to retrieve enough money for a meal than to find out that someone better-off took it all. I remember that month of riding my bike around applying anywhere and everywhere for a job, when some homeless guy came up to me and begged for money. I had exactly two cents and a Jolly Rancher to my name. I gave him the piece of candy. I had planned to eat that for lunch. I ended-up eating from the mercy of friends, and I eventually found a job.

 

Yeah, I can see myself getting all concerned about not being able to go after premium caches....Yeah, right.

That sucks more.