What is so wrong with vacation caches

[+the pooks]

There I was looking forward to putting a couple of caches in a famous canyon when we hike there next year and now I find out this website will probably not accept it because I will not be able to do maintenance.

 

What's wrong with stating that it is meant for hikers, asking others who visit it to help maintain it and if it goes missing just log it as such and forget about it. The fun part is the connectivity between people and maybe one day when I get there again and it is still there I can look it up. The potential lack of maintenance should not be an issue as the stated purpose of the cache is different to normal caches.

 

I say then list it as a "vacation cache" and handle the maintenance differently. Just delist if nobody wants to play along any more - this is not a lifelong contract.

 

It will take a while before the earth is covered knee-deep in abandoned caches - I don't want to sound insensitive, but lets be practical - the environment has far bigger litter issues than what some carefully hidden caches could offer.

[+welch]

I think the idea is that the one who placed it is expected to be responsible for it. Maybe other people will fix whatever problems come up, maybe they won't, that's that part about gettting getting things arranged with someone local to take care of the cache (in which cache your vacation cache becomes just a normal cache).

 

"Just delist if nobody wants to play along any more - this is not a lifelong contract." IMO Thats probably the biggest argument against allowing them. It may not be a lifelong contract, but you can't just make a cache disappear by archiving the listing. Someone needs to go and phyisically remove the cache / cache remains. Sure there are other problems for the enviroment but why is that an excuse for people to litter?

[Dinoprophet]

First, you don't know that any local hikers will be willing to maintain it. Dropping a cache and saying "Take care of this for me, will ya?" would just be rude.

 

Second, you need to ask yourself why a local hasn't already put a cache there. It could be that they aren't allowed in that area. Even if they are, you don't know what restrictions are involved -- container type, duration, etc. Or maybe none of them have the time or ability to maintain a cache there (which goes back to the first point). And if caches aren't allowed and you place one, you'll have damaged geocaching in the eyes of the land owners for all the locals.

 

If you really think the area needs a cache, find a local cacher and suggest the area to them.

Edited July 31, 2007 by Dinoprophet

[+sTeamTraen]

The most likely 10-day period during which a cache will require maintenance is the one after it's submitted. There could be coordinate snafus, proximity issues (including to the final of a Mystery cache which you couldn't have know was there, etc). So it's important to be able to go and fix teething problems with a cache.

 

More generally, it comes down to respect: for the landowner (there's *always* a landowner), for other cachers, and for the site.

[+whistler & co.]

Occasionally we have a string of DNF's on one or another of our caches. In that case, we go and check the cache to make sure it's still there. Then we post an "owner maintenance" log assuring people the cache is present and intact (or state that it was moved and we put it back in place, or saying that it was stolen and we have replaced it, etc.). This allows the people who couldn't find it to resolve their DNF by coming back to search harder, or to say "not my fault, the cache was missing," or whatever fulfills their need in that particular case. It is frustrating to want to visit a cache only to see that the last several logs have been DNF's and that the only "maintenance" is one owner note saying "cache is probably still there...could one of the previous finders go check it for me?" If the owner has a good excuse, such as illness or injury, or military duty, for not checking the cache for a long time, that's understandable. But to deliberately place a cache and then abandon it is discourteous.

 

Edited for spelling problems!

Edited July 31, 2007 by whistler & co.

[+Team Cotati]

If you know or can find someone in the area that is into geocaching, try and get them to hide it for you. Otherwise, just forget about it. Unless you enjoy online abuse that is.

Edited July 31, 2007 by Team Cotati

[+briansnat]

What's wrong with vacation caches?

 

1. To leave a cache with the expectation that others will take care of it for you is extremely presumptuous.

 

2. Out of towners are less likely to be aware of local geocaching rules and regulations if they exist

 

3. If you make a mistake with the coordinates how are you going to obtain the correct ones?

 

4. If you place it in a place that is off limits, how are you going to remove it?

 

5. If there are DNFs, how can you really be sure it's missing without going there to check?

[Uberquandary]

 

1. To leave a cache with the expectation that others will take care of it for you is extremely presumptuous.

 

Not presumptuous. Rude.

[+Moose Mob]

If it's a popular canyon, then ask yourself why nobody has placed one there already. Ask the local reviewer about the area. Perhaps there is a no-cache placement policy for that area. I would hate to have you drop an ammo can in a spot only to find that caches are prohibited.

[+Kit Fox]

If it's a popular canyon, then ask yourself why nobody has placed one there already. Ask the local reviewer about the area. Perhaps there is a no-cache placement policy for that area. I would hate to have you drop an ammo can in a spot only to find that caches are prohibited.

 

Since the original poster is only taking about "set it and forget it caches," or "throw away caches," I hardly think they would use a sturdy container like an ammo can. Call my thoughts presumptous, but I suspect this type of cache would be made of "gladware," and leak before the first visit.

 

I base my opinion on the original post and his blatant "I could care less, because someone else would take care of it," attitude.

[+briansnat]

 

1. To leave a cache with the expectation that others will take care of it for you is extremely presumptuous.

 

Not presumptuous. Rude.

 

Well both.

[+JohnnyVegas]

What's wrong with stating that it is meant for hikers, asking others who visit it to help maintain it and if it goes missing

That is not only rude, it will never work, If you cannot maintain a cache you should not place a cache, while on vacation of not. I found a cache a few years ago while grabing some find around 40 miles from were I lived that was damaged, I mention the cache was in need of repair in my log. The cache owner sent me an e-mail asking me to repair it because he did not want to make the trip. Like that was ever going to happen

[+Knight2000]

Some people who have caches don't take care of them.

 

I have been to more than one cache that is visited often where the it has needed maintenance for over a year. Just a wet mushy/rusted mess.

 

An option like this would surely encourage people to be even more irresponsible.

[+StarBrand]

Expecting the community to take care of your cache is just wrong. While it may indeed happen - you should not count on it.

 

The ability to go out and check on a cache is very important. You just cannot know what issues may come up over time. Rockslide, fire, new rules for the area, bad swag left etc. All caches need to have a responible party to take care of issues. If they don't - they are little more than abondoned garbage.

[+Driver Carries Cache]

I think briansnat is right on regarding this... so is Knight 2000. Can you imagine folks coming into your local area, dropping caches all over and never returning? Maintenance issues can be bad enough with the local hiders. If a cacher has no long-term commitment to a placement, how much time and effort do you think that person will put into planning and placing that hide?

 

This would just lead to rampant geo-trash.

 

Groundspeak should hold tight on this rule.

 

DCC

[+cgmoyer]

This is copied from the rules for placing geocaches.

 

Cache Maintenance

 

The cache owner will assume all responsibility of their cache listings.

 

The responsibility of your listing includes quality control of posts to the cache page. Delete any logs that appear to be bogus, counterfeit, off topic, or not within the stated requirements.

 

As the cache owner, you are also responsible for physically checking your cache periodically, and especially when someone reports a problem with the cache (missing, damaged, wet, etc.). You may temporarily disable your cache to let others know not to hunt for it until you have a chance to fix the problem. This feature is to allow you a reasonable time – normally a few weeks – in which to arrange a visit to your cache. In the event that a cache is not being properly maintained, or has been temporarily disabled for an extended period of time, we may archive or transfer the listing.

 

It may be difficult to fulfill your maintenance obligations if you place a cache while traveling on vacation or otherwise outside of your normal caching area. These caches may not be published unless you are able to demonstrate an acceptable maintenance plan. It is not uncommon for caches to go missing, areas to be cleared, trails to be blocked or closed, objects used for multi-cache or puzzles to be moved or removed, etc. Your maintenance plan must allow for a quick response to reported problems.

 

The territory in which a geocacher is able to maintain caches responsibly will vary from one person to the next. An active geocacher who regularly visits areas hundreds of miles apart can demonstrate their ability to maintain a cache 100 miles from home. A geocacher whose previous finds and hides are all within 25 miles of their home would likely not see their cache published if placed 250 miles away from their home.

 

If you have special circumstances, please describe your maintenance plan on your cache page. For example, if you have made arrangements with a local geocacher to watch over your distant cache for you, that geocacher’s name should be mentioned on your cache page.

 

[+the pooks]

I've certainly generated a lot of comment and a certain amount of abuse...

 

This canyon is in the middle of a desert and is part of a five day hike, so there aren't even locals to check on caches, never mind still doing the hike.

 

Such situations do sometimes have a cairn of rocks with a logbook that folks can write that they were there. Nobody is expected to maintain it.

 

I am aware that this non-maintenance is not normal geocaching practice but why can't I write a note like:

 

"I have placed this logbook with goodies in this cairn as a momento of my hike on this date. You are welcome to log your visit here and on the geocaching.com website etc. I am not able to maintain this cache. This is not normal geocaching practice and is somewhat frowned upon by the geocaching community, but is the only way I can do it. Buy taking part in this cache you have implicitly accepted the terms of agreement " I can carry on, but you get the gist of what I am saying.

 

This is not presumptuous or rude. If you place something with clear indications of the "rules" or arrangements it is up to the participant whether they feel comfortable with the arrangement or not. Nobody is being forced to participate. It is a practical solution, not for lack of effort.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

I've certainly generated a lot of comment and a certain amount of abuse...

 

This canyon is in the middle of a desert and is part of a five day hike, so there aren't even locals to check on caches, never mind still doing the hike.

 

Such situations do sometimes have a cairn of rocks with a logbook that folks can write that they were there. Nobody is expected to maintain it.

 

I am aware that this non-maintenance is not normal geocaching practice but why can't I write a note like:

 

"I have placed this logbook with goodies in this cairn as a momento of my hike on this date. You are welcome to log your visit here and on the geocaching.com website etc. I am not able to maintain this cache. This is not normal geocaching practice and is somewhat frowned upon by the geocaching community, but is the only way I can do it. Buy taking part in this cache you have implicitly accepted the terms of agreement " I can carry on, but you get the gist of what I am saying.

 

This is not presumptuous or rude. If you place something with clear indications of the "rules" or arrangements it is up to the participant whether they feel comfortable with the arrangement or not. Nobody is being forced to participate. It is a practical solution, not for lack of effort.

In my estimation, your original post and your poste above illustrate very well the problems attendant to placing vacation caches and the problematic attitudes exhibited by those persons who tend to place them.

[+wandererrob]

I think part of the issue is that geocaching has become so widespread and already faces certain challenges with land managers, the law, etc and to place a cache without a set plan to maintain it and remove it if necessary can only serve to hinder the game.

 

As for the logbooks on the trails, those are outside of geocaching.com's realm. Their rules don't apply here any more than ours do there.

 

I suppose for that matter you're not even required to use this site to list your cache. But being the biggest, we all have a responsibility to try and maintain geocaching (at least as it relates to this site) in a positive light lest we lose even more places to put them than we already have.

 

I DO like your idea, but past experience has taught us all that vacation caches often lead to the problems already mentioned. If you can find and prove you have a willing maintainer in the area, maybe even a local cacher willing to adopt it after it's placed, mabe you've got a shot. But regardless, you have to be able to ensure the cache can be maintained.

[+CurmudgeonlyGal]

I think briansnat is right on regarding this... so is Knight 2000. Can you imagine folks coming into your local area, dropping caches all over and never returning?

 

Why yes. Yes, I can.

 

This would just lead to rampant geo-trash.

 

Groundspeak should hold tight on this rule.

 

I don't know how vacation caches are managed at-large, but I've been told that they are often approved (here, specifically) because if they are NOT approved they immediately become trash. Why? Because it's just about guaranteed that the person who placed the VC won't be going out to retrieve their unapproved cache now, will they?

 

OTOH, when a vacation trash... er cache, is approved people go hit it up for the smiley and eventually it will either disappear, because the placement is poor and a random act of kindness, or the cleaning person, removes it by taking it and/or placing it in the garbage (you know the kind... the baggie with a log in it that was placed between the slats on the bathroom wind barrier at the state park entrance which looks exactly like... garbage... when it falls on the ground), or it will continue to exist because of someone thinks it's worth maintaining.

 

How do you better balance that type of thing? For the most part people know they aren't supposed to place vacation caches, or caches in an area they don't visit often... so what do you do, or rather, what's an approver supposed to do when someone DOES place one on their way out of town... never to return?

 

They can't go get each and every VC that someone submits-->doesn't get approved-->leaves on the ground.

 

Solution? Thoughts?

 

I must admit... I've managed to acquire a few nice containers that people have left behind.

 

 

 

Edited to add: I am not, and do not intend to convey an attitude that I think what the OP wants to do is OK... No. Nonononono. If he wants a memento of his trip... he can take a photo.

 

 

michelle

Edited July 31, 2007 by CurmudgeonlyGal

[+Knight2000]

As soon as it needed its first maintenance it would be litter.

 

Then a responsible cacher would have to hike it back out.

 

Sounds like trouble to me.

[+CurmudgeonlyGal]

As soon as it needed its first maintenance it would be litter.

 

Then a responsible cacher would have to hike it back out.

 

Sounds like trouble to me.

 

A FIVE day hike back out. T'ain't no one gonna do dat...

 

That said, of course, I know of at least one three day hike cache hidden in the middle of the mountains around here... well, three days, or a week, depending on the trip you want to take. Three finds in five years... it was three years until the first find.

 

I suspect, with the RIGHT attitude and spirit, the type of cache proposed by the OP is a viable idea. It is certainly done in other places by cachers who are true to the game. Unfortunately the OP doesn't seem to have the right attitude and spirit for this type of cache.

 

 

michelle

[+the pooks]

As soon as it needed its first maintenance it would be litter.

 

Then a responsible cacher would have to hike it back out.

 

Sounds like trouble to me.

 

A FIVE day hike back out. T'ain't no one gonna do dat...

 

That said, of course, I know of at least one three day hike cache hidden in the middle of the mountains around here... well, three days, or a week, depending on the trip you want to take. Three finds in five years... it was three years until the first find.

 

I suspect, with the RIGHT attitude and spirit, the type of cache proposed by the OP is a viable idea. It is certainly done in other places by cachers who are true to the game. Unfortunately the OP doesn't seem to have the right attitude and spirit for this type of cache.

 

 

michelle

 

This quote and all the others refer. I consider myself a law abiding and environmentally aware person, so all the flack is a bit over the top. Let me put the situation differently...

 

I went on a 5 day hike a year ago (the first trip with my GPS, did not know anything about Geocaching). I plan to go next year again.

 

Is there any way that I may leave a log of some description, take GPS readings and communicate this to the world out there in a responsible and generally accepted fashion a) within the geocaching community (currently the most effective way of communicating in this field) or outside of the geocaching community?

 

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[uperdooper]

if all you want to do is record your visit for posterity...start a blog.

[+Stunod]

Is there any way that I may leave a log of some description, take GPS readings and communicate this to the world out there in a responsible and generally accepted fashion a) within the geocaching community (currently the most effective way of communicating in this field) or outside of the geocaching community?

 

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

There is a Waymarking catagory called Trail Registers

[+WascoZooKeeper]

Is there any way that I may leave a log of some description, take GPS readings and communicate this to the world out there in a responsible and generally accepted fashion a) within the geocaching community (currently the most effective way of communicating in this field) or outside of the geocaching community?

Sure.

 

It's called Waymarking.

 

If you can't find an appropriate category, propose a new one and round up a group of officers to manage the category.

[Keystone]

Waymarking may be a fine alternative for an existing trail register, but that site cannot be used as an end run around the geocaching guidelines. In other words, you can't create a geocache (logbook in a container) and list it as a waymark because it doesn't meet geocaching site listing guidelines.

 

Sure, you can hide a vacation cache. List it on your personal website, your hiking group's website, your local geocaching group's website, or one of the other worldwide listing services that don't have standards governing the placement of unmaintained vacation caches. You just can't list it here without a maintenance plan.

[+flask]

I've certainly generated a lot of comment and a certain amount of abuse...

 

 

...if by "abuse", you mean disagreement.

 

This canyon is in the middle of a desert and is part of a five day hike, so there aren't even locals to check on caches, never mind still doing the hike.

 

Such situations do sometimes have a cairn of rocks with a logbook that folks can write that they were there. Nobody is expected to maintain it.

 

I am aware that this non-maintenance is not normal geocaching practice but why can't I write a note like:

 

"I have placed this logbook with goodies in this cairn as a momento of my hike on this date. You are welcome to log your visit here and on the geocaching.com website etc. I am not able to maintain this cache. This is not normal geocaching practice and is somewhat frowned upon by the geocaching community, but is the only way I can do it. Buy taking part in this cache you have implicitly accepted the terms of agreement " I can carry on, but you get the gist of what I am saying.

 

well, sure, i guess. but it isn't a geocache and shouldn't be one. you can put a logbook anywhere you like. i have three on military installations and one just south of where my descending colon makes its final turn. i'm having trouble getting someone to maintain that one for me.

 

This is not presumptuous or rude.

 

of course it is. it is presumptuous AND rude, as well as a few other things. allow me to paraprase you:

 

"i want to place a geocache, and list it on this commercial site that has rules. i am aware of the rules and want them suspended because it would be more fun for me. meeeee, meeeeeee!"

 

If you place something with clear indications of the "rules" or arrangements it is up to the participant whether they feel comfortable with the arrangement or not. Nobody is being forced to participate. It is a practical solution, not for lack of effort.

 

just because you put in some effort does not make it fit guidelines. i think you've come up with your own solution: if you really HAVE to litter a famous canyon, put your logbook in it and let people sign it, knowing that it is not listed on this site. it is upt to the participant whether they feel comfortable with the arrangement or not. nobody is being forged to participate. it is a practical solution.

 

and now, in the stunning words that caused a moderator to ban me for three days, we're all so proud of you.

 

oh. and HAVE A GREAT DAY!

Edited July 31, 2007 by flask

[+TotemLake]

 

I say then list it as a "vacation cache" and handle the maintenance differently. Just delist if nobody wants to play along any more - this is not a lifelong contract.

 

It will take a while before the earth is covered knee-deep in abandoned caches - I don't want to sound insensitive, but lets be practical - the environment has far bigger litter issues than what some carefully hidden caches could offer.

You there... outta the deep end of the gene pool.

[+Rockin Roddy]

Sounds like GEOLITTER to me if you just want to leave it and hope others will maintain it. All these are good answers and I doubt anyone is taking personal shots at you.

 

Please don't do anything to cause trouble for those of us that would like to obey the guidelines and place caches responsibly.

[+the pooks]

Waymarking may be a fine alternative for an existing trail register, but that site cannot be used as an end run around the geocaching guidelines. In other words, you can't create a geocache (logbook in a container) and list it as a waymark because it doesn't meet geocaching site listing guidelines.

 

Sure, you can hide a vacation cache. List it on your personal website, your hiking group's website, your local geocaching group's website, or one of the other worldwide listing services that don't have standards governing the placement of unmaintained vacation caches. You just can't list it here without a maintenance plan.

 

I appreciate the above poster's reasonable answer. (and some others - I don't know how to include more quote's in a reply)

 

I am quite surprised at how venomous (the word bitchy also comes to mind) posters can be on this forum. I think I have a valid and reasonable suggestion. I can understand that the suggestions cannot be accommodated on this website, but it is not necessary to trash it so vehemently. The world would be a better place if everybody did not think "I am right and the rest of the world is wrong". Tolerance is the word!

[+WascoZooKeeper]

Waymarking may be a fine alternative for an existing trail register, but that site cannot be used as an end run around the geocaching guidelines. In other words, you can't create a geocache (logbook in a container) and list it as a waymark because it doesn't meet geocaching site listing guidelines.

To clarify: my comment (and I'm sure Stunod's too) were not intended to suggest a means of "an end run around the geocaching guidelines." Waymarks have many various means of validating your visits, which don't involve leaving a logbook and container behind -- that's why I suggested it.

 

If there are unique geological features involved, an Earthcache might also be appropriate. That also does not involve leaving anything behind, and would also be listed on gc.com.

[+Rockin Roddy]

ouch...better watch your mouth or you'll be taking a vacation from these forums as well!

 

You can think it's us that are being inconsiderate if you want, but that's not what's going on here at all! You have asked a question, got the answer and still disagree. You then think everyone is being rude for voicing the opinion you asked for. It's trash plain and simple!

 

Put a scrap of paper out there if you wish, but please include your name and contact info so the authorities know who is responsible!

[+WascoZooKeeper]

I am quite surprised at how venomous (the word bitchy also comes to mind) posters can be on this forum. I think I have a valid and reasonable suggestion. I can understand that the suggestions cannot be accommodated on this website, but it is not necessary to trash it so vehemently. The world would be a better place if everybody did not think "I am right and the rest of the world is wrong". Tolerance is the word!

I haven't seen any abuse or venomous comments; just numerous responses about the flaws in your suggestion. The only intolerance I've detected is yours, toward those who are pointing out those flaws.

[uperdooper]

 

I say then list it as a "vacation cache" and handle the maintenance differently. Just delist if nobody wants to play along any more - this is not a lifelong contract.

 

It will take a while before the earth is covered knee-deep in abandoned caches - I don't want to sound insensitive, but lets be practical - the environment has far bigger litter issues than what some carefully hidden caches could offer.

You there... outta the deep end of the gene pool.

i called the pool cleaners.

 

[Keystone]

I am quite surprised at how venomous (the word bitchy also comes to mind) posters can be on this forum. I think I have a valid and reasonable suggestion. I can understand that the suggestions cannot be accommodated on this website, but it is not necessary to trash it so vehemently. The world would be a better place if everybody did not think "I am right and the rest of the world is wrong". Tolerance is the word!

Be grateful you didn't mention that the logbook was going to be inside a peanut butter jar. Trust me on that.

 

Oh, and watch your language. Thanks.

[+Moose Mob]

OK - let's get this thread under control.

 

First, the question was about vacation caches in general, and that is what the answers were pertaining to. Not a problem.

 

The "real" question is about a single cache in a remote spot someplace that takes a few days to get to.

 

Sounds like the real question is whether or not an exception should be granted for this. My answer is that it needs to be taken up with the reviewer for that area.

 

Here in Nevada, if asked first, I would consider an exception for an ammo can that was legally placed in a location 80 miles from civilization and 200 miles from the cachers home territory. Micro caches on the Las Vegas strip take a lot more convincing and a real good maintenance plan.

[+steve p]

Is there any way that I may leave a log of some description, take GPS readings and communicate this to the world out there in a responsible and generally accepted fashion a) within the geocaching community (currently the most effective way of communicating in this field) or B outside of the geocaching community?

Your original post asked the geocaching community about your idea. You got multiple answers about the generally accepted fashion. You are reading the advice of "the geocaching community" but yet you don't like what you're hearing or don't want to listen.

 

I'm pretty new at geocaching, and if the community suggested that something I wanted to do in this game wasn't within the community guidelines I'd drop that idea like a hot potato and not try to weasel around the guidelines anyway.

[+dkwolf]

Waymarking may be a fine alternative for an existing trail register, but that site cannot be used as an end run around the geocaching guidelines. In other words, you can't create a geocache (logbook in a container) and list it as a waymark because it doesn't meet geocaching site listing guidelines.

 

Sure, you can hide a vacation cache. List it on your personal website, your hiking group's website, your local geocaching group's website, or one of the other worldwide listing services that don't have standards governing the placement of unmaintained vacation caches. You just can't list it here without a maintenance plan.

 

I appreciate the above poster's reasonable answer. (and some others - I don't know how to include more quote's in a reply)

 

I am quite surprised at how venomous (the word bitchy also comes to mind) posters can be on this forum. I think I have a valid and reasonable suggestion. I can understand that the suggestions cannot be accommodated on this website, but it is not necessary to trash it so vehemently. The world would be a better place if everybody did not think "I am right and the rest of the world is wrong". Tolerance is the word!

The thing you fail to realize here is, many of those giving you answers to your question, have been around the forums a long time. Long enough that most questions have already been answered several times, and they've read and posted in those threads at that time. The regulars have a pretty good understanding of the answers the reviewers will give, and can often provide those answers before a reviewer gets to the thread. Listen to them. They are the voice of experience.

[Clan Riffster]

Is there any way that I may leave a log of some description, take GPS readings and communicate this to the world out there in a responsible and generally accepted fashion a) within the geocaching community (currently the most effective way of communicating in this field) or outside of the geocaching community?

 

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Pook, start by talking to the reviewer for the area. Nothing productive can come from this until you've established communication with the reviewer responsible for the area you wish to hide your cache in. Ask them about any concerns or rules unique to the area you plan to hike in. If you look at a cache map and see a large area utterly void of little green ammo can icons, there's usually a reason for it other than a complete lack of cachers. You might also ask them for contact information for local cachers known for their willingness to maintain caches belonging to out of towners. Maybe they know someone who would be willing to help?

 

If that route fails, keep in mind that this is not the only cache listing service on the Internet. You might try your idea at TC. I've tried looking for their guidelines but couldn't find them. Maybe leaving unmaintainable caches is not against the "rules" over there. Maybe?

 

Personally, I am in absolute agreement with the current stance GC takes against vacation caches. Groundspeak recognized an opportunity to promote environmental awareness, and took it. I applaud them for it. Vacation caches almost always become litter, and most folks around here aren't into littering. This is their sandbox. If you want to play here, you gotta abide by their rules.

 

The 3rd, and most radical solution, if you are adamantly apposed to GC's guidelines, is to purchase a server and a domain name and start your own cache listing service. I know this might sound like sarcasm, but I am sincere. This is similar to the advice I give when I hear folks whining about Microsoft. If they can build a better operating system than Windows, go for it.

[+sTeamTraen]

I don't know how vacation caches are managed at-large, but I've been told that they are often approved (here, specifically) because if they are NOT approved they immediately become trash. Why? Because it's just about guaranteed that the person who placed the VC won't be going out to retrieve their unapproved cache now, will they?

 

The logic used by some placers, of placing a vacation cache and saying "well, maybe it is unmaintainable, but it's no more unmaintainable whether it's listed or not, so you might as well list it", is essentially that of the kidnapper. I presume that it is not Groundspeak's policy to ask the reviewers to give in to this kind of moral blackmail. I do know that in countries where people typically pay the ransom, there are a lot more kidnappings than in those where they don't.

 

As pointed out elsewhere in this thread, the OP is free to list their cache on any other Internet site in the whole world, apart from this one. That sounds like a pretty big smorgasbord to me.

[+the pooks]

It is at this stage a somewhat hypothetical question. I do not intend making

a habit of dropping unmaintainable caches, but this situation seems to

warrant a cache (remember I am participating in the game, I'm not trying to

disrupt it). I am thinking of way to accommodate the situation within the

geocaching community. Most hikers who have GPSr's and have heard about Geocaching would welcome the cache, trouble is it is

unlikely to be accepted. It is 1000 km from my home location, and as most

people who do the hike come from afar.

 

The area I am talking about is here

 

http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=-27.851320,...p;t=k&hl=en

 

As a new avid geocaching enthusiast, my first thought is would it not be

nice to hide or seek a cache here. Trouble is, it seems that this cannot be

accommodated on the gc.com site (due to the maintenance question). I was trying to think of a way of placing a cache here in a way that would be acceptable to the community.

[+flask]

one of the hallmarks of the new avid cacher is the desire to put a cache everywhere. i think it took me three years to grow out of that phase.

 

as a cacher, i know i would not approve of a vacation cache so placed, especially if it contained explanations about why it is good enough to break the guidelines. there are lots and lots of reasons why one like this is not acceptable to the community.

 

it sounds like you're actually more interested in placing the cache regardless of acceptance than you are in staying within accepted guidelines. if you do not hear an answer you like, will you keep trying avenues until you have nothing left but to do as you wanted?

 

can you explain please why you believe this particular situation warrants a cache?

 

--

we're all very proud of you.

[+TrailGators]

You can do vacation Waymarks....

[+IDLookout]

...Just delist if nobody wants to play along any more - this is not a lifelong contract.

 

It will take a while before the earth is covered knee-deep in abandoned caches - I don't want to sound insensitive, but lets be practical - the environment has far bigger litter issues than what some carefully hidden caches could offer.

 

Are you actually saying that it's OK in your mind to abandon a cache out in the world just because it'll "take a while before the earth is covered knee-deep in abandoned caches"?

 

That's one of the most irresponsible things I've read in a long time if I'm reading that right.

 

It's the exact type of attitude that litterbugs have: "Well, it's only one soda can...."

Edited July 31, 2007 by IDLookout

[+Team GPSaxophone]

The world would be a better place if everybody did not think "I am right and the rest of the world is wrong".

But isn't that what you did by saying your vacation trash idea is right and the guidelines here are wrong?

[+the pooks]

one of the hallmarks of the new avid cacher is the desire to put a cache everywhere. i think it took me three years to grow out of that phase.

 

as a cacher, i know i would not approve of a vacation cache so placed, especially if it contained explanations about why it is good enough to break the guidelines. there are lots and lots of reasons why one like this is not acceptable to the community.

 

it sounds like you're actually more interested in placing the cache regardless of acceptance than you are in staying within accepted guidelines. if you do not hear an answer you like, will you keep trying avenues until you have nothing left but to do as you wanted?

 

can you explain please why you believe this particular situation warrants a cache?

 

--

we're all very proud of you.

I placed my first cache yesterday. This existence of this game relies on people willing to place caches, so do not discourage them.

 

I gave more details of the cache in the post just above yours.

 

Given all the correspondence in this thread - if you were in my situation (ie a geocache enthusiast going on a hike far from home, where there are no caches, and not many maintenance options) would you:

1) try and convince gc.com to take the cache to maximise participation and enjoyment.

2) forget about it

3) log it on another less well known site

4) log it on your own site/blog and keep it personal

[+WascoZooKeeper]

Given all the correspondence in this thread - if you were in my situation (ie a geocache enthusiast going on a hike far from home, where there are no caches, and not many maintenance options) would you:

1) try and convince gc.com to take the cache to maximise participation and enjoyment.

2) forget about it

3) log it on another less well known site

4) log it on your own site/blog and keep it personal

5) Look into listing it as a waymark instead of as a geocache.

[Clan Riffster]

I was trying to think of a way of placing a cache here in a way that would be acceptable to the community.

I still believe there is a way to make this happen. The link you provided appears to be south central Namibia Africa. I'm not sure if South Africa has a dedicated reviewer, but looking at some of the caches you've found, you might try talking to erik88l-r and/or Crow T Robot. They've both published caches in your area, and might be able to point you in a direction acceptable to your goal.

 

Good luck!

[+Team LaLonde]

What's wrong with stating that it is meant for hikers, asking others who visit it to help maintain it and if it goes missing just log it as such and forget about it just accepting the geocaching.com guidelines and play by the rules?