Logging Your Own DeLorme Challenge?

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

Here's the question. Is it OK to log a DeLorme Challenge if you are the owner of the Challenge?

 

I would meet all of the requirements to log it, and I would physically go out to the Final to sign the log book (I *did not* sign it when I placed it).

 

All opinions welcome.

[+Stunod]

That's an exception to the "you shouldn't log your own cache" rule that I would approve of.

[+wimseyguy]

I concur with the caffeinated poulet. The Challenge is the test there, not actually finding the final cache.

But finding any of your own caches in order to check off a page would be bad form.

[+The Leprechauns]

It took me a year, but last Monday I finished the long journey to find a cache in each of Pennsylvania's 69 DeLorme grids. I am a co-owner of the Pennsylvania DeLorme Challenge, under a shared account. I certainly plan on returning to the cache I helped hide -- a twelve-mile hike -- to sign the logbook.

 

We disclosed this possibility upfront in the rules posted to our cache page. There's been no question about it from the ethics police. My own ethics are somewhere only slightly to the left of Puritan, and it doesn't trouble me.

 

There is also plenty of prior precedent, if you look at other DeLorme Challenges. People who are interested in setting one up, and doing all the work to maintain one, are also likely to want to complete the Challenge themselves.

 

So, congratulations on completing the Challenge!

[+hydnsek]

I concur with all of the above, and think Moun10Bike should log a find on the Washington DeLorme Challenge, which he owns. He finished all 99 grids in June, but on principle won't log a find.

[+webscouter.]

Log it!

[+TrailGators]

That's an exception to the "you shouldn't log your own cache" rule that I would approve of.

Me too.

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

I had the same feeling as wimseyguy. The Challenge, not the final, was the thing.

 

When I set it up, I had not even thought about logging it myself. However, I just grabbed a DeLorme Challenge GeoCoin down in Virginia, and was going to place it in the final (per it's mission). That's the first time I even considered logging my Challenge, since I was going to go back out that way. So, I checked, and I have met the requirements (and no, I did not log any of my own caches for any page ), but I wanted to see what others thought.

 

Thanks for the input.

[+Prime Suspect]

Nope. You have an advantage over the others participating in the challenge. Wouldn't be Cricket.

[+MtnGoat50]

That's an exception to the "you shouldn't log your own cache" rule that I would approve of.

I concur with all of the above, and think Moun10Bike should log a find on the Washington DeLorme Challenge, which he owns. He finished all 99 grids in June, but on principle won't log a find.

I'm pretty hard nosed about not logging your own caches as finds. But this is one exception I wouldn't have a problem with.

ANYONE who completes the grid and signs the log at the final should be able to log a find on it.

[+Sagefox]

I concur with all of the above, and think Moun10Bike should log a find on the Washington DeLorme Challenge, which he owns. He finished all 99 grids in June, but on principle won't log a find.

 

I agree. The challenge is to find caches on pages. I would expect that no one completing a DeLorme Challenge would use one of their own caches to qualify for a page but once you've got every page you have completed the task.

[+The Jester]

Nope. You have an advantage over the others participating in the challenge. Wouldn't be Cricket.

I'm not sure they really have an advantage in the challenge, in locating the final yes, but the challenge (logging a cache in every grid) no.

 

I own a Challenge cache (not Delorme, a History challenge) and in a way I'm disappointed that I can't (won't) log it myself once I qualify (not that's going to stop me from get qualified).

[+Ambrosia]

It took me a year, but last Monday I finished the long journey to find a cache in each of Pennsylvania's 69 DeLorme grids.

Congrats, Lep.

[+Rick618]

An advantage? You completed the task, go sign the log book if you want.

Either way it's your cache and your rules. Congrats on finishing, just 49 to go

[+Sagefox]

Nope. You have an advantage over the others participating in the challenge. Wouldn't be Cricket.

 

I'd like to pursue this a bit farther. What advantage does a DeLorme cache owner have?

[+TrailGators]

Nope. You have an advantage over the others participating in the challenge. Wouldn't be Cricket.

 

I'd like to pursue this a bit farther. What advantage does a DeLorme cache owner have?

I didn't get that either. The challenge is finding the 50+ caches. The final is just logging that you have completed the entire mission.

[+Team Teebow]

As an owner of the "Maine Delorme Challenge" I do not see where there is an advantage. I don't have the location of every cache in each grid, and if I placed a cache in a grid that did not have one, I don't see an issue there. As long as all of the rules/criteria have been followed/met, I don't see an issue.

Edited October 13, 2007 by Team Teebow

[+The Leprechauns]

My sole advantage as the co-owner of a DeLorme Challenge is that I know where the final cache is hidden. I have no advantage with regards to finding the 69 caches needed to qualify for logging a find. The final cache is six miles from the nearest parking place for vehicles, and it can be approached from at least four different trailheads. It's also more than 100 miles from my home (don't worry, there's a local maintainer). When I visit it again to log my find, I plan on using one of the two approach routes that I've never traveled before. It will thus seem like a fresh journey!

[+Prime Suspect]

Nope. You have an advantage over the others participating in the challenge. Wouldn't be Cricket.

 

I'd like to pursue this a bit farther. What advantage does a DeLorme cache owner have?

There are 2 parts to the challenge:

1. Completing the requirement to get the final coordinates.

2. Locating the cache at those coordinates.

 

I don't recall ever hearing of anyone claiming they completed a challenge without doing both of the above.

 

Since the owner placed the cache, he has a bit of an advantage in completing part 2.

[+Prime Suspect]

Nope. You have an advantage over the others participating in the challenge. Wouldn't be Cricket.

 

I'd like to pursue this a bit farther. What advantage does a DeLorme cache owner have?

I didn't get that either. The challenge is finding the 50+ caches. The final is just logging that you have completed the entire mission.

Nope. Completing the challenge portion just gets you the final coordinates to the actual cache location.

 

It seems that a lot of people who have responded to this don't actually understand how a DeLorme Challenge works.

Edited October 13, 2007 by Prime Suspect

[+Team GPSaxophone]

Can you complete the challenge? Sure.

 

Should you log your own cache to get "credit" for it? No.

[+BlueDeuce]

If I get credit for hide I don't then take credit for the find.

[+Ambrosia]

I'd log it for sure if it was a situation like Lep's. In his case, a group placed it under a group name, so the cache doesn't show up in his hide list. In those cases, I find the thing so it's in some category. But that's just me.

[+TrailGators]

It seems that a lot of people who have responded to this don't actually understand how a DeLorme Challenge works.

Maybe you are right. I thought the challenge was to find a cache on each page of the Delorme mapbook for a particular state. It doesn't matter which ones you find. Then once you had done that, the owner would give you the coords for the final. So the hard part is driving all over the entire state to get the 50+ caches. It would be a huge challenge in California. So to me the final cache is the sign-off of completion of this task. If that's not how it works then maybe I would have a different opinion.

 

Anyhow, I said it wouldn't bother me if someone logged their own challenge (if it worked the way I understand above). I guess they could have a buddy make the exact same challenge with a different final so they could log it, but that seems a bit anal retentive to me.

Edited October 13, 2007 by TrailGators

[+TrailGators]

If I get credit for hide I don't then take credit for the find.

This makes sense when you've already been to the cache. In the case of an event or a challenge you haven't. It's like hosting a marathon and not being able to run in it and win it.

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

Nope. You have an advantage over the others participating in the challenge. Wouldn't be Cricket.

 

I'd like to pursue this a bit farther. What advantage does a DeLorme cache owner have?

I didn't get that either. The challenge is finding the 50+ caches. The final is just logging that you have completed the entire mission.

Nope. Completing the challenge portion just gets you the final coordinates to the actual cache location.

 

It seems that a lot of people who have responded to this don't actually understand how a DeLorme Challenge works.

 

I fully understand the challenge concept. Like someone else mentioned, the final cache is merely the hlogbook for the effort undertaken. My final was a mile in, and is a very easy hide. I made it such, seeing as the real effort was driving all over Rhode Island to find 12 caches and didn't want people having to spend ours at GZ in order to log the cache.. I even offered to bring the cache out to anyone who was physically unable t make it to the final location. Anyone who went looking for the final would find it. It was a Diff 0.5!

 

So yes, I knew where the cache was. I did find the 12 requisite caches (again, without really intending to do it), and re-hiked in, mainly to place a DeLorme Challenge Geocoin for the next finder. Will I eventually log it as a Smiley. We'll see.

[+BlueDeuce]

If I get credit for hide I don't then take credit for the find.

This makes sense when you've already been to the cache. In the case of an event or a challenge you haven't. It's like hosting a marathon and not being able to run in it and win it.

 

You mean go caching, find and get credit for some 99 caches, and then get another credit for a cache you placed yourself?

 

It's just a box of caches. I don't care what the box looks like, I don't log a cache after getting the placement stat.

Edited October 13, 2007 by BlueDeuce

[+Prime Suspect]

Yeah, that's another thing - it's RHODE FREAKIN' ISLAND! It's not like you drove all over Texas or California. It's what? 40 miles across, at most? Calling this a "Challenge" is really a stretch. I think the "DeLorme Minor Inconvenience" would be more accurate.

[+Sagefox]

If I get credit for hide I don't then take credit for the find.

This makes sense when you've already been to the cache. In the case of an event or a challenge you haven't. It's like hosting a marathon and not being able to run in it and win it.

 

You mean go caching, find and get credit for some 99 caches, and then get another credit for a cache you placed yourself?

 

It's just a box of caches. I don't care what the box looks like, I don't log a cache after getting the placement stat.

 

I am usually with you on this point of logic – cache owners should not claim finds on their own caches - but this is CLEARLY a different matter. This whole argument might just be one of the silliest I've read in about four years of snooping these pages.

 

The Challenge is to find a cache on every DeLorme page - that was what the "gauntlet" tossing down was all about in the original DeLorme Challenge (Northern California). That cache does not have a "final" container after you qualify.

 

DLC owners who place that final cache should add a statement something like:

 

I have placed a "final" container to facilitate the logging of this challenge cache and for trade items that only those completing this challenge will have access to. Given that the challenge is related to DeLorme pages rather than the typical container cache find I reserve the right to log this cache as a "Found It" should I be fortunate enough to complete the qualifications.

 

Who would fault anyone for this?

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

Yeah, that's another thing - it's RHODE FREAKIN' ISLAND! It's not like you drove all over Texas or California. It's what? 40 miles across, at most? Calling this a "Challenge" is really a stretch. I think the "DeLorme Minor Inconvenience" would be more accurate.

 

Hey, be nice!

 

And you have to remember...we do have some serious verticality in RI. Why, the tallest point is over 800' high!

[+robert]

Guidelines don't allow for caches to be hidden where you have to email for coordinates, nor do they allow commercial caches. Groundspeak has made an exception because of the special nature of these caches. I think with that in mind, logging one's own DeLorme cache is a special exception as well. Besides, I think (as has been pointed out) that the real challenge is completing the grids, not finding the cache. I doubt any of the DeLorme Challenge caches are going to be Little Nasty style caches, they're meant to be found, so no advantage there.

 

My vote: Log on!

 

Congrats to Lep and anyone else who has completed a DeLorme Challenge cache, even in Rhode Island.

 

[+BlueDeuce]

- but this is CLEARLY a different matter. This whole argument might just be one of the silliest I've read in about four years of snooping these pages.

 

Nope, still don't see it. Call me daft. I can appreciate the accomplishment, in fact there were some cachers who found a cache in every county in Iowa (99 of them) just before the Iowa DeLorme came out. (of course they were allowed to log as 'Heritage'.)

 

You want to tell the owners the can log it? That's fine by me. My opinion is if I'm owner of the cache I wouldn't log it even if I found each page twice over. It's just my opinion. Sorry if that's the silliest position you've read in the last four years here.

 

 

edit: fixed a couple words

Edited October 14, 2007 by BlueDeuce

[+Sagefox]

...It's just my opinion. Sorry if that's the silliest position you've read in the last four years here.

 

Yes, maybe I went a bit too far - that doesn't leave much room for Mad Marty.

[+BlueDeuce]

...It's just my opinion. Sorry if that's the silliest position you've read in the last four years here.

 

Yes, maybe I went a bit too far - that doesn't leave much room for Mad Marty.

 

I thought it might have been the guy wanting to re-cycle prescription medicines. (Bob wasn't it?)

 

edit: Boblog?

Edited October 14, 2007 by BlueDeuce

[+TrailGators]

If I get credit for hide I don't then take credit for the find.

This makes sense when you've already been to the cache. In the case of an event or a challenge you haven't. It's like hosting a marathon and not being able to run in it and win it.

 

You mean go caching, find and get credit for some 99 caches, and then get another credit for a cache you placed yourself?

 

It's just a box of caches. I don't care what the box looks like, I don't log a cache after getting the placement stat.

So every challenge cache will have to be duplicated so the challenge owners can have fun and participate in the challenge too? Edited October 14, 2007 by TrailGators

[+BlueDeuce]

If I get credit for hide I don't then take credit for the find.

This makes sense when you've already been to the cache. In the case of an event or a challenge you haven't. It's like hosting a marathon and not being able to run in it and win it.

 

You mean go caching, find and get credit for some 99 caches, and then get another credit for a cache you placed yourself?

 

It's just a box of caches. I don't care what the box looks like, I don't log a cache after getting the placement stat.

So every challenge cache will have to be duplicated so the challenge owners can have fun and participate in the challenge too?

 

The owner can find as many caches as they want. Even if they don't meet the challenge they got credit for the Del hide.

 

At most I would post a note saying I met the challenge. Dang, difficulty and/or effort are not the requirements for getting to log a cache. Take credit for either the find or the hide, not both.

 

Just to take care of the karma issues, I'm going to meet the cache requirements and not log a Found it.

 

So there!

Edited October 14, 2007 by BlueDeuce

[+TrailGators]

If I get credit for hide I don't then take credit for the find.

This makes sense when you've already been to the cache. In the case of an event or a challenge you haven't. It's like hosting a marathon and not being able to run in it and win it.

 

You mean go caching, find and get credit for some 99 caches, and then get another credit for a cache you placed yourself?

 

It's just a box of caches. I don't care what the box looks like, I don't log a cache after getting the placement stat.

So every challenge cache will have to be duplicated so the challenge owners can have fun and participate in the challenge too?

 

The owner can find as many caches as they want. Even if they don't meet the challenge they got credit for the Del hide.

 

At most I would post a note saying I met the challenge. Dang, difficulty and/or effort are not the requirements for getting to log a cache. Take credit for either the find or the hide, not both.

 

Just to take care of the karma issues, I'm going to meet the cache requirements and not log a Found it.

 

So there!

The only "credit" that matters in this case is completing the entire challenge! I don't know many people that have done one. I would never post one with your challenge rules because I would want to do it even if it took me 10 years to finally do it! Edited October 14, 2007 by TrailGators

[+Harry Dolphin]

My vote: Log on!

 

Congrats to Lep and anyone else who has completed a DeLorme Challenge cache, even in Rhode Island.

 

 

Hey, Lep even logged a cache that I'd found, somewhere in the wilderness of Pike County! (Hey, I'm a suburbanite. Pike County is the wilderness to me!)

 

I agree. Go for it. The challenge is finding all the qualiflying caches. Finding the final is just putting icing on the cake.

Andy Bear and I managed to FTF/STF the New Jersey Tour de Cache (One cache in each county capable of holding a TB.) The owners reserved the right to log after they'd found all 21 caches. (But they would not log their find until after ten or so others had found it.)

I have no problem with them finding the cache. The hard part is finding the qualifying caches.

[+Mopar]

Here's the question. Is it OK to log a DeLorme Challenge if you are the owner of the Challenge?

 

I would meet all of the requirements to log it, and I would physically go out to the Final to sign the log book (I *did not* sign it when I placed it).

 

All opinions welcome.

 

*I* wouldn't do it. In my opinion, it's nothing more then a rather extreme multicache. Find all the stages (the challenge) THEN log the final. If you placed the final cache, how can you "find it"? Isn't that always the argument against logging a smiley on a cache you own? If any other player didn't find the final cache would you still consider it a find? Yet if you cant find the final (and the consensus has always been you cant find it if you already know where it is) it's still a find?

 

Go complete the challenge. Congratulations, you completed a difficult task. Log a note when you do.

[+TrailGators]

*I* wouldn't do it.

I won't ever do it either, but mainly because I'm not going to spend weeks and hundreds in gas to drive all over the state to do it. But if I got a smiley I would do it! Just kidding! Edited October 15, 2007 by TrailGators

[+wimseyguy]

It seems that a lot of people who have responded to this don't actually understand how a DeLorme Challenge works.

I understand how this particular challenge works. It doesn't change my answer. As Robert already pointed out, this particular cache is deserving of an exemption of the 'email for coords' guideline. Therefore there is a parallel exemption allowing the owner of the listing to log a find when they complete the grids and return to the location of the actual cache and sign the log book. They just don't have to send themselves an email.

 

Or maybe I had a darker motive when I encouraged someone else to own the NC franchise?

Edited October 16, 2007 by wimseyguy

[+Mudfrog]

I've always thought that it was bad form to log your own cache. However, i do feel for the owners of these caches who do decide that they want to take on the challenge. I don't think i would log a find if it was mine but i understand the circumstances and wouldn't think bad of anyone who did.

[+flyingmoose]

I had created two of them myself and would not log either one, even now that I adopted them out, I would just post a note. Doing the challenge is enough for me, logging a find would not excite me as much as being able to do it.

[+sbell111]

Here's the question. Is it OK to log a DeLorme Challenge if you are the owner of the Challenge?

 

I would meet all of the requirements to log it, and I would physically go out to the Final to sign the log book (I *did not* sign it when I placed it).

 

All opinions welcome.

I have no problem with it.

 

Go for it.

[+briansnat]

I can't think of any circumstances where I would consider logging a find on a cache I placed. I already have credit for the hide and I know where he cache is so I can't "find" it.

 

I'm sure completing the challenge would be a lot of fun, so go ahead and do it. Does it make it any less fun if you don't get a smiley at the end?

 

If I owned the cache and decided to complete the challenge I'd probably log a note on my cache page.

Edited October 16, 2007 by briansnat

[+jahoadi and john]

I can't think of any circumstances where I would consider logging a find on a cache I placed. I already have credit for the hide and I know where he cache is so I can't "find" it.

 

I'm sure completing the challenge would be a lot of fun, so go ahead and do it. Does it make it any less fun if you don't get a smiley at the end?

 

If I owned the cache and decided to complete the challenge I'd probably log a note on my cache page.

 

 

Thanks for sponsoring the Delorme challange cache you own. These challanges can be very hard. We are currently trying to complete the Nevada Delorme challange. Months of work so far and 44 of 54 quads completed (trust me, Nevada has some isolated quads.) The cache is yours so I wouldn't think you would log it as a find. We have lots of caches we own and would never consider logging any as a find, no exceptions. Again thanks for sponsoring(owning) such a good cache.

[+Moose Mob]

Just to play devil's advocate, perhaps the owner of the Challenge should do this "before" they can own it? Much like having someone place a cache for you in an area you have never been, then owning it. That also applies to adopting a cache, one must find it prior to adopting (or go do a maintenance visit shortly after). So, I am tossing out the thought that a person should have been at the location prior to owning it. That applies to multi-caches, and if a person wants to own a cache that requires a cacher to visit all the DeLorme pages or counties, then the owner should do that prior to publication.

[+sbell111]

Just to play devil's advocate, perhaps the owner of the Challenge should do this "before" they can own it? Much like having someone place a cache for you in an area you have never been, then owning it. That also applies to adopting a cache, one must find it prior to adopting (or go do a maintenance visit shortly after). So, I am tossing out the thought that a person should have been at the location prior to owning it. That applies to multi-caches, and if a person wants to own a cache that requires a cacher to visit all the DeLorme pages or counties, then the owner should do that prior to publication.

That's a very interesting position, but wouldn't it open the field up to making it acceptable for all cache owners to claim finds on their caches?

Edited October 16, 2007 by sbell111

[+Kealia]

I wouldn't do it either. I have a "Fizzy Challenge" cache here in CA that has spawned about 6 duplicates across the country - much like the DeLorme caches in question. You have to find one of each cache difficulty/terrain combination for a total of 81 finds, then go find the final.

 

I am "playing along" to complete my matrix as well, but have no intentions of claiming a find once I do. I'll post a note stating that I've finished it. The fun is in the completion of it, not the smiley. I guess I'm a purist as well - I won't log a find on my own cache. I guess I don't see the logic in those that typically won't log their own cache but will on these - is it just because it's harder? Help me understand.

 

Like others have said, it's my opinion, that's all. There are a lot of folks in here that have the opposite POV and that's fine. I don't think any "less" of them, I just don't agree with them.

[Dinoprophet]

Ditto Kealia. I'm by no means a hard-liner when it comes to how other people log, but I wouldn't do it myself. Any time I hide a cache, I have to do everything a finder will have to do -- usually multiple times -- except find it*. Yet, I don't log them. I don't see why these caches would be different.

 

* and if it's a puzzle, solve it. But setting up a puzzle is often more work than solving it.

Edited October 16, 2007 by Dinoprophet