Learning a hard lesson!

[+tsunrisebey]

Well at the risk of looking like an fool (to some I already am, lol), I figured I'd share my story so that some of you don't have to go through what I am going through right now.

 

It won't surprise me to see someone take a shot at me here for getting myself into this mess but I'll take my licks since it is my own fault. The only reason I post this is to hopefully help someone else from making the same mistake I did. I am learning the hard way and I suppose this won't be the last lesson I learn in life.

 

For those of you who accept paypal as payment for your geocoins sales and that includes ebay auctions, be prepared for the unexpected. I've been pretty lucky, I've never had any problems when it comes to shipping coins (anything I couldn't take care of at least). I've had an excellent record with ebay and paypal.

 

Well after I finished up the preorders for the RJV2, I received an email from paypal saying they limited my account. Essentially I can not do anything with my paypal account right now. So there sits my $$$. My account was limited because of recent activity that was unusual to my acct. I sent them everything they required and made a number of telephone calls. To make a long story short.....

 

Lesson learned the hard way here: When you receive $$ for your coin sales (any sales for that matter) you are required to use a tracking number (I did not know this but I do now after speaking to a supervisor). This is the only way you can prove that your coins arrived (at least to a mailbox). Mailing your coins overseas you need the same thing and anything over $250.00 requires a signature. I've never used tracking numbers but you can bet your hiney I will now.

 

So anyhow, there is my story, take from it what you will. In the meantime, I will sit with a limited account until every one of the RJV2's arrive at their destinations and I take a hit in the pocket for my own ignorance. While this isn't the worst that could happen, it is a huge hassle.

 

Moral of the story: If you take paypal for coin sales, use tracking numbers, don't be a tsun

 

Of course I am open to tips, tricks or suggestions or if you feel the need to call me a dipstick, you can do that too.

 

Happy Holidays

[+Hula Bum]

Wow, is this something new or did someone report you? I've used paypal for dozens of big projects and never had this happen and I never mail through paypal on them.

Bummer deal!

[+Team FIREBOY]

Oh Tsun,

 

I feel so bad. Anything I can do to help?

 

Jodi

[+fairyhoney]

[+gardengorilla]

That sucks. you should tell them where to stick their tracking numbers!

[+tsunrisebey]

Wow, is this something new or did someone report you? I've used paypal for dozens of big projects and never had this happen and I never mail through paypal on them.

Bummer deal!

 

They won't give me the specific reason why they limited my account but I'm assuming it was just the large amount of payments coming in for the remint (I didn't get a complaint/report as far as I know). That was unusual for my account (that's why my account was flagged, for unusal activity). While I don't have any issues with them doing what it takes to safeguard my account, every hoop I jumped through to prove I am who I am, sending documents, the latest request was for tracking numbers on the packages. I told them the story and they are perfectly fine with that but we got to talking about tracking numbers and the supervisor told me about section... paragraph.... with the requirements I just noted. I admited that I didn't know that and that I would make sure the packages had tracking numbers so they could follow up. Once the tracking numbers show that they have arrived, supposedly my limitation will be lifted. They requested tracking numbers for certain customers but not all.

Edited December 21, 2007 by tsunrisebey

[+J10fly]

Tsun.....It's cause you have a personal account, change it to a business account and you will have no issues. Once you do that it will ask you to confirm some stuff with your bank account and cc and you are good to go, no limits. It seriously takes like 5 mins to fix it. If you need help let me know. The only difference you will really see is one the limit obviously, but you pay 2.9% + .30 for each transaction and then international has a slight surcharge for conversion.

 

Jayman11

Shop4Swag.com

[+rsfish1]

I have learned that lesson the hard way also. But here is the real hard part. The post offices here in Indianapolis will allow me to add tracking to one of my 6x9 mailers for .65 or what ever it is because they consider a bubble mailer to be a rigid package. So I covered myself and shipped all of my coins with the tracking on it. Then disaster struck.

 

My packages started getting returned postage due. When the coins started hitting some post offices across the country, they saw them as letters. Well letters cannot have tracking on them unless they are sent priority mail. So that means to ship a single coin with tracking it would be about $5.50.

 

Darned if you do, darned if you don't. And I would rather use another word there. So I have already took a $100 in losses the last 2 months and I am looking at another $40 one that is being disputed now.

 

I don't know what to do either. The post office's on regulations say bubble wrap mailers can and should be considered letters becasue they are flexible. But since post offices across the country see them differently and they are playing by 2 different sets of rules, I do not see a way of winning.

[+tsunrisebey]

Tsun.....It's cause you have a personal account, change it to a business account and you will have no issues. Once you do that it will ask you to confirm some stuff with your bank account and cc and you are good to go, no limits. It seriously takes like 5 mins to fix it. If you need help let me know. The only difference you will really see is one the limit obviously, but you pay 2.9% + .30 for each transaction and then international has a slight surcharge for conversion.

 

Jayman11

Shop4Swag.com

 

It is a business account

[+Eartha]

Wow, some tough lessons to be learned the hard way! I hope anyone else who has tips, warnings and help can stop in here and post.

[+J10fly]

Tsun.....It's cause you have a personal account, change it to a business account and you will have no issues. Once you do that it will ask you to confirm some stuff with your bank account and cc and you are good to go, no limits. It seriously takes like 5 mins to fix it. If you need help let me know. The only difference you will really see is one the limit obviously, but you pay 2.9% + .30 for each transaction and then international has a slight surcharge for conversion.

 

Jayman11

Shop4Swag.com

 

It is a business account

 

Now that is bizarre then. I dont see why they would do that to you if it is set up as a business account. When I login to my paypal account I see a section that shows me my limits and all of mine are blank since I have no limits with all my info verified with them. There has to be a better way for you around that one.

 

Jayman11

Shop4Swag.com

[+LadyBee4T]

Ship using the paypal shipping multi order thing and you will get tracking numbers automatically and it only costs $0.18 extra. They have to ship as packages though to get the tracking numbers. Also that means they have to be 1/4 thick.

 

My post office considers all bubble mailers to be parcel so I have been paying at that rate here and haven't had any returned. Of course I get some to me that are $0.97 when I pay $1.30

[+chancerider]

Steph, I'm SO sorry to hear that you're having PayPal problems! I have to admit complete ignorance of PP requirements as I'm just a small-time collector.

 

To have this happen to anyone is wrong, especially after completing all their "requirements". But, to have it happen to one of the most generous and giving coiners is so much worse! Wish I could help.... Eve

[+PSU Fan]

Stephanie-

 

Happy Holidays.

 

Here is a special picture for all you do!!!

 

 

Merry Christmas,

 

PSU Fan

[+tsunrisebey]

Ship using the paypal shipping multi order thing and you will get tracking numbers automatically and it only costs $0.18 extra. They have to ship as packages though to get the tracking numbers. Also that means they have to be 1/4 thick.

 

My post office considers all bubble mailers to be parcel so I have been paying at that rate here and haven't had any returned. Of course I get some to me that are $0.97 when I pay $1.30

 

I'm not real sure what you are talking about here but I'll log into my account and try to see if I can find it. I might have to email you to get a better description.

 

Jho: I think you are misunderstanding, my account doesn't have limits per se. There was something that caused the account to show unusual acitivity (don't know what even after I asked). When that happens your account is then limited (can't request/send/transfer $$$). You can however receive $$$ but that doesn't make any sense to take $$$ that you have no access too.

[+tsunrisebey]

Stephanie-

 

Happy Holidays.

 

Here is a special picture for all you do!!!

 

 

Merry Christmas,

 

PSU Fan

 

LOL! Thanks Dan!

 

My Carroll College football team (Saints) won the National Championship (NAIA) and they made the cover of Sports Illustrated, they new one coming out!!!!! How cool is that

[+Renegade Knight]

...They won't give me the specific reason why they limited my account...

 

That right there is a major flaw. If they can limit your account for no reason then PayPal falls short on ethics. If they have a reason they should tell you so they can avoid having to do extra work to limit your account for "top secret" reasons.

 

PayPal has issues, this is just another one that they seem to wish to hone to razor sharpness.

[+Renegade Knight]

Ship using the paypal shipping multi order thing and you will get tracking numbers automatically and it only costs $0.18 extra. They have to ship as packages though to get the tracking numbers. Also that means they have to be 1/4 thick.

 

My post office considers all bubble mailers to be parcel so I have been paying at that rate here and haven't had any returned. Of course I get some to me that are $0.97 when I pay $1.30

There is a thickness that kicks the rating up. Last time I mailed a coin they said "yeah if it's about that thick..." and made me pay about as much as a bigger package. Reality is there is an actual thickness and you could make a case using the real rule instead of their rule of thumb.

[danoshimano]

Just google paypal sucks and get ready to dive into the horror stories.

 

They routinely freeze accounts and hang onto money indefinitely. Once upon a time, Paypal was well into the process of turning itself into a real bank. But then the board came to their senses: If they became a bank, they would be subject to all the rules and regulations that banks have to follow (such as not arbitrarily taking peoples' money and making it virtually impossible to get it back with catch-22 scenarios).

[+tsunrisebey]

...They won't give me the specific reason why they limited my account...

 

That right there is a major flaw. If they can limit your account for no reason then PayPal falls short on ethics. If they have a reason they should tell you so they can avoid having to do extra work to limit your account for "top secret" reasons.

 

PayPal has issues, this is just another one that they seem to wish to hone to razor sharpness.

 

When I asked them why they couldn't tell me what it was about my account activity that concerned them (so I could avoid a repeat performance) they told me they don't tell their customers because they don't want people to 'find ways around the system' . I just love how they treat their customers. It has taken every ounce of self-control I have not to go off on these people. I've been very polite because I want my access to my $$$ again. They sure know how to bend people over.

[+tsunrisebey]

Just google paypal sucks and get ready to dive into the horror stories.

 

They routinely freeze accounts and hang onto money indefinitely. Once upon a time, Paypal was well into the process of turning itself into a real bank. But then the board came to their senses: If they became a bank, they would be subject to all the rules and regulations that banks have to follow (such as not arbitrarily taking peoples' money and making it virtually impossible to get it back with catch-22 scenarios).

 

You're not making feel any better here, lol. Think I'll skip the horror stories for now (I've heard some in the past) and just keep what sanity I have left for the holidays

[+LadyBee4T]

Ship using the paypal shipping multi order thing and you will get tracking numbers automatically and it only costs $0.18 extra. They have to ship as packages though to get the tracking numbers. Also that means they have to be 1/4 thick.

 

My post office considers all bubble mailers to be parcel so I have been paying at that rate here and haven't had any returned. Of course I get some to me that are $0.97 when I pay $1.30

There is a thickness that kicks the rating up. Last time I mailed a coin they said "yeah if it's about that thick..." and made me pay about as much as a bigger package. Reality is there is an actual thickness and you could make a case using the real rule instead of their rule of thumb.

 

In order to get delivery confirmation it needs to be 1/4 inch thick which kicks it into the parcel rating. Using paypal multi order shipping since they require you to use del confirmation they automatically put you in that category. Also I tried to put my bubble mailer with one coin through their 1/4" thick test slot and it didn't fit.

 

Paypal requires shipment within 30 days of receiving payment and if someone reports they didn't recieve their item paypal gets a tad upset. Others have had an account frozen for that reason when they took preorders.

[+Accordiongal]

I have learned that lesson the hard way also. But here is the real hard part. The post offices here in Indianapolis will allow me to add tracking to one of my 6x9 mailers for .65 or what ever it is because they consider a bubble mailer to be a rigid package. So I covered myself and shipped all of my coins with the tracking on it. Then disaster struck.

 

My packages started getting returned postage due. When the coins started hitting some post offices across the country, they saw them as letters. Well letters cannot have tracking on them unless they are sent priority mail. So that means to ship a single coin with tracking it would be about $5.50.

 

Darned if you do, darned if you don't. And I would rather use another word there. So I have already took a $100 in losses the last 2 months and I am looking at another $40 one that is being disputed now.

 

I don't know what to do either. The post office's on regulations say bubble wrap mailers can and should be considered letters becasue they are flexible. But since post offices across the country see them differently and they are playing by 2 different sets of rules, I do not see a way of winning.

 

Well, now I partly understand why on a e place purchase, I had to pay an extra $4 for shipping because of the local postal persons interpretation of the rules. Irritating when making the purchase pay for shipping, then got stuck having to pay again to ransome the coin from the Post Office.

[+islander1988]

Sorry to hear about the problems Tsun. I would definitely look into the option LadyBee4T mentioned of printing your labels through PayPal so you can get the cheap tracking. I've never done it myself (I don't think it's an option in Canada) but it sounds like the cheapest way to go.

 

A while back I had a payment I received reversed because the person who sent it hadn't had their bank account set up properly with PayPal (fortunately they sent payment again when the problem was fixed). What I learned from the dispute process is PayPal is more on the side of the buyer. If a buyer complains they never received an item and the seller can't provide a tracking number to prove they sent it, the buyer wins, which may be why they are requiring the tracking numbers from you.

[+007BigD]

yeah that sucks!!! The only problem I was having was them issueing echecks...but they clear finally, just takes longer.

 

One more very odd thing that happened just recently was them taking money from my account and putting it into my paypal account!!!...AUTOMATICALLY!!!!!

 

I had about 5 transactions "from bank account" equal to over 1600.00 that went into my paypal account recently!!! ...couldnt figure how or why~I didnt do it, but its there and what I havent spent through paypal still is!!! (the last I checked)

 

I tried to contact them, but dang if they make it hard to contact them...even through email!!! Can you give us their direct phone number??????? ...seriously though

 

I hope you get it all figured out with them and let us know if all goes well or if this turns into one of those "Horror stories" even though I have only accepted money on 2 occasions...many of us need to be informed as to what we may be getting into...as in your case~Good Luck and sorry for the hassles~As if preorders, finals, and the holidays arnt bad enough!!!

[SCYoli]

They won't give me the specific reason why they limited my account but I'm assuming it was just the large amount of payments coming in for the remint

 

Well that stinks, they basically are punishing you for being successful. Or maybe they are just jealous they didnt get a V1.

 

I hope this clears up for you soon.

[+tsunrisebey]

yeah that sucks!!! The only problem I was having was them issueing echecks...but they clear finally, just takes longer.

 

One more very odd thing that happened just recently was them taking money from my account and putting it into my paypal account!!!...AUTOMATICALLY!!!!!

 

I had about 5 transactions "from bank account" equal to over 1600.00 that went into my paypal account recently!!! ...couldnt figure how or why~I didnt do it, but its there and what I havent spent through paypal still is!!! (the last I checked)

 

I tried to contact them, but dang if they make it hard to contact them...even through email!!! Can you give us their direct phone number??????? ...seriously though

 

I hope you get it all figured out with them and let us know if all goes well or if this turns into one of those "Horror stories" even though I have only accepted money on 2 occasions...many of us need to be informed as to what we may be getting into...as in your case~Good Luck and sorry for the hassles~As if preorders, finals, and the holidays arnt bad enough!!!

 

That is not good Big D! You can get direct access to them by clicking on the 'contact us' link. Scroll down and click on the 'phone' us link. It will give you a pin number that is good for an hour and the 888 # to call them. Call and go through the automated process, after you get some options, wait for the 'security' option. When you get to that option, say it (verbally) and then say 'operator', you'll get a live person. If you don't get the answers you're looking for ask for a supervisor, they are a little better. I waited 15 minutes to talk to one. You need to get that taken care of! Can't you transfer that back into your account? Something is definitely goofy there, didn'[t even know that was possible.

[+ThirstyMick]

don't be a tsun

 

For the record, I'm pretty sure if your name became a word like that, the definition would be something more along the lines of "really sweet person who designs beautiful coins with the whole of her heart, gives a bunch away in cointests and always helps friends in need" it definitely would not be "fool"

 

hope it works out quickly, that really sucks!!

[+tsunrisebey]

Sorry to hear about the problems Tsun. I would definitely look into the option LadyBee4T mentioned of printing your labels through PayPal so you can get the cheap tracking. I've never done it myself (I don't think it's an option in Canada) but it sounds like the cheapest way to go.

 

A while back I had a payment I received reversed because the person who sent it hadn't had their bank account set up properly with PayPal (fortunately they sent payment again when the problem was fixed). What I learned from the dispute process is PayPal is more on the side of the buyer. If a buyer complains they never received an item and the seller can't provide a tracking number to prove they sent it, the buyer wins, which may be why they are requiring the tracking numbers from you.

 

You're right paypal is buyer friendly I don't have any reverses or disputes on my account, so I'm good there. This is over the preorder stuff which I will NEVER do again. Chalk this up to a major learning lesson plus I'm getting very familiar with paypal policy.

[+tsunrisebey]

don't be a tsun

 

For the record, I'm pretty sure if your name became a word like that, the definition would be something more along the lines of "really sweet person who designs beautiful coins with the whole of her heart, gives a bunch away in cointests and always helps friends in need" it definitely would not be "fool"

 

hope it works out quickly, that really sucks!!

 

Lol, thanks

[+Mr.Explorer3]

tsun,

Don't be down on yourself when there are others to blame. I would find it hard to be nice to someone who is not telling me why they wont give me whats mine. Let me know if there is anything I can do.

[+wsgaskins]

I'd be interested in seeing this policy somewhere on the PayPal site.

 

I searched a bit for it this morning, but all I could find was this article:

What methods of online tracking are acceptable?

 

Question :

What methods of online tracking are acceptable?

 

Answer :

A The following options may be used:

 

* Parcelforce

* Royal Mail

* U.S. Postal Service

* UPS

* FedEx

* Airborne Express

* DHL

 

Note: Royal Mail does not officially provide online tracking (with proof of delivery) for the International Signed For service. In some instances however, delivery details may be available online. If these details map to the buyer's shipping address shown on the Transaction Details page, PayPal may consider it as sufficient proof of delivery. However, since availability of delivery details cannot be predicted, sellers may not be able to rely on this method for proof of delivery in order to be covered by PayPal's Seller Protection Policy.

 

Which refers to their Seller Protection Policy:

... blah... blah... blah...

In order for a transaction to be eligible for protection under the Seller Protection Policy, the transaction must be marked as "SPP eligible" and sellers must:

 

* Have a qualified Verified Business or Premier Account.

* Ship to the confirmed address on the Transaction Details page

* Retain reasonable proof of postage that can be tracked online

* Require signature receipt on transactions equal to or more in value than $250.00 USD

 

To view the specific terms and conditions of PayPal's Seller Protection Policy, click here.

 

Which leads to paydirt: The actual Seller Protection Policy

https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cm..._spp#spp-policy

... which I will not reproduce here... but you can go read it for yourself.

Here's the interesting part: (my emphasis added)

Please note that in order to qualify for our Seller Protection Policy you must ship the item as required in this section. If you hand deliver an item, or provide delivery in any manner other than required in this section, your transaction will not qualify for the Seller Protection Policy.

 

So, it sounds like unless you *wanted to be eligible* for this, then your method of shipping is totally up to you. I mean, it reads to me like it's really totally optional -- it's meant to protect the seller.

They even say "In order to qualify for coverage under the Seller Protection Policy, you must meet the following requirements:". Searching on that page -- the legal agreement you agree to when you use PayPal -- the only other time 'ship' is mentioned is when a buyer wants to return something and they have to provide proof that they returned it in order to qualify for a dispute if their money is not returned.

 

How is PayPal telling you otherwise, or differently interpreting this part of their policy???

[+wsgaskins]

I tried to contact them, but dang if they make it hard to contact them...even through email!!! Can you give us their direct phone number??????? ...seriously though

Well, in addition to the way that tsun mentioned, right there on their user agreement page is a (toll) phone number you could call:

telephone PayPal Customer Service at (402) 935-7733

(for disputes or other customer service)... calling (402) 935-2050 from 6 AM to midnight Central Time.

 

... note:

If you initially provide information to us via the telephone, we may require that you send your complaint or question in writing within 10 Business Days after the phone contact.

[+Rockin Roddy]

don't be a tsun

 

For the record, I'm pretty sure if your name became a word like that, the definition would be something more along the lines of "really sweet person who designs beautiful coins with the whole of her heart, gives a bunch away in cointests and always helps friends in need" it definitely would not be "fool"

 

hope it works out quickly, that really sucks!!

 

Lol, thanks

 

Steph, I can't offer much more than my friendship here (and an offer to storm the PP offices if you'd like)...maybe some chocolates would help?? Watch your mail kiddo!

[+wsgaskins]

...

I told them the story and they are perfectly fine with that but we got to talking about tracking numbers and the supervisor told me about section... paragraph.... with the requirements I just noted. I admited that I didn't know that and that I would make sure the packages had tracking numbers so they could follow up. Once the tracking numbers show that they have arrived, supposedly my limitation will be lifted. They requested tracking numbers for certain customers but not all.

 

So is it remotely possible that some of those 'certain customers' have requested a refund from PayPal? Or maybe they just complained to PayPal directly about shipment issues and they want their money refunded -- so PayPal is going down the route to also try to protect you by being sure that they don't issue a refund for something that was actually delivered.... kinda "forcing" you into the Seller Protection Policy. ???

 

I'm worried, because I know that many people use PayPal (is there any other choice these days??) and would still need to do pre-orders in order to get the coins produced. Coins&Pins even went to the drastic measure of forcing you to agree to a long-worded policy about pre-orders that discourages complaining to PayPal about pre-order products not being shipped promptly.

[ATMouse]

This happened to an organization I know of. As far as I know, even tho we jumped through all the hoops we could, the account remains frozen. I for one, will never use PayPal as an on-line selling tool ever again.

 

How has folks' google payment service worked for them?

 

And tsun...I hope it all work out for you.

 

Have you thought of going to your State Attorney General?

[+S&G.Davison]

I only used paypal once for shipping. Yes it's great as the address is already there, however it does cost more than using the online postage purchase that is available via Royal Mail in the UK. After that first shipment when I realised the cost difference I stopped using paypal for shipping and resorted back to Royal Mail as shipping is expensive enough anyway. These abnormal activity restrictions are great (paypal. ebay. credit cards) but there does need to be some better way to prove that it is you and not some intruder who has changed your usage habits to lift the restrcitions ASAP.

 

Sue

[+AtlantaGal]

In order to get delivery confirmation it needs to be 1/4 inch thick which kicks it into the parcel rating. Using paypal multi order shipping since they require you to use del confirmation they automatically put you in that category. Also I tried to put my bubble mailer with one coin through their 1/4" thick test slot and it didn't fit.

 

You mean 3/4" thick for d/c and/or insurance. The 1/4" is the thickness that shifts a letter to large envelope.

Edited December 21, 2007 by AtlantaGal

[+AtlantaGal]

So is it remotely possible that some of those 'certain customers' have requested a refund from PayPal?

 

No, because any time a refund is requested, the seller is automatically notified through the system and given the option to make the refund themselves or have the paypal resolution center involved.

[+backhiker]

Stephanie,

 

Don't think I can help with the frozen account thing. Are you Premier Verified?

 

As far a shipping- I have a friend that sells shoes on eplace. She uses paypal multi ship and gets the .18 delivery conf. She says its great; she prints the labels on sticky labels slaps them on the package and the post office will even pickup - she doesn't have to make the trip. (think there is a minimum for this service though)

 

I recently sold a toy my son outgrew on eplace, I also used the paypal shipping w/.18 conf on parcel post. The money comes right out of my paypal acct which is where the shipping money is anyway so I don't have to transfer it around.

 

Prepay can be a problem with paypal. They do have a time limit, if you have a problem with the minter (out of your control) you can have a big problem with paypal.

 

Sorry for all this headache right before the holidays. Maybe that cowboy avatar will come and visit and make you feel much better

[+tsunrisebey]

Ok, I cut and pasted the section the supervisor quoted me. (For those of you who have asked the same question, again, I am verified, I am confirmed, I have a Business account-that is not an issue here). I don't have reversals, no one is asking for their $$$ back, nothing like that. Thosed issues do not limit your account, they only have an effect on that particular transaction.

 

Now it is highly possible as someone mentioned earlier that because it was a preorder, someone (meaning anyone) could have decided to notify paypal of what I was doing, knowing my account would be under review (so for any of you considering preorders, group projects, etc. please keep this in mind). I don't know for sure if that was the issue. Paypal will not give you the reason for a 'limited account' action but you WILL know if it was because of a reversal/chargeback/dispute on a charge because that you are made aware of.

 

Now, as I read the rules, (to me) I interpret them differently than the answer I was given. If you want seller protection (I use that term very loosely), then you need to have tracking numbers. So one could really argue that even if you don't have tracking numbers on packages, you can still prove shipping if the buyer say's "ya I got the goods." So, I think what I was told was a bit misleading after re-reading this.Is tracking a good idea, probably yes, if you can figure out how to do it for the .18 cents, posted by others here.

 

One last thing.... you can find this stuff under their Legal Agreements section and the more you read about what it is that you NEED to be doing as a seller, the more you realize you're pretty hosed if anything happens.

 

11.3 Qualification Requirements. In order to qualify for coverage under the Seller Protection Policy, you must meet the following requirements:

 

You must have a Verified Business or Verified Premier Account at the time of the transaction,

 

The transaction must be between a US, UK or Canadian buyer and a US, UK or Canadian seller,

 

The payment must be listed as "Seller Protection Policy Eligible" on the "Transaction Details" page, or cleared by PayPal through Payment Review,

 

You must accept a single payment from one PayPal Account for the purchase,

 

You must not charge a surcharge for accepting PayPal,

 

You must ship the purchased item to the address listed on the "Transaction Details" page, and that address must be identified as a Confirmed Address,

 

You must ship the item to the buyer within 7 Days of receiving payment, Highlighted for those who think you have 30 days, you don't.

 

You must have trackable online proof of delivery from an approved shipper to the address on the "Transaction Details" page. For transactions involving $250.00 USD or more, you must provide a proof of receipt that was signed or otherwise acknowledged by the buyer and can be viewed online, (If you paid in a currency other than US dollars, the following amounts apply for this section: $325.00 CAD, €200.00 EUR, £150.00 GBP, ¥28000.00 JPY, $350.00 AUD, 330.00 CHF, 1,600.00 NOK, 2,000.00 SEK, 1,500.00 DKK, 800.00 PLN, 55000.00 HUF, 6,000.00 CZK, $400.00 SGD, $2,000.00 HKD, $380.00 NZD), and

 

You must respond to PayPal's requests for information within the time period PayPal specifies.

 

Please note that in order to qualify for our Seller Protection Policy you must ship the item as required in this section. If you hand deliver an item, or provide delivery in any manner other than required in this section, your transaction will not qualify for the Seller Protection Policy.

[+LadyBee4T]

In order to get delivery confirmation it needs to be 1/4 inch thick which kicks it into the parcel rating. Using paypal multi order shipping since they require you to use del confirmation they automatically put you in that category. Also I tried to put my bubble mailer with one coin through their 1/4" thick test slot and it didn't fit.

 

You mean 3/4" thick for d/c and/or insurance. The 1/4" is the thickness that shifts a letter to large envelope.

 

Yes that's what I meant! Thanks. I send most of my coins in a used padded envelope and then in a bubble mailer to meet the 3/4" thickness. So far I haven't had any returned to me for postage due nor has anyone told me they had to pay extra postage to pick it up. I ship using the paypal multiorder shipping to get the delivery confirmation.

[+tiki]

Aloha Tsun -

 

Sorry to hear about your PayPal woes. I wanted to add a bit to your excellent post on how to get seller protection via PayPal. Before I get into it though I want to say I use PayPal daily for selling my artwork, and I am 95% happy with it. It allows me to sell my work around the world without having to hand over a 50% commission to a gallery. That said, though, I do feel that PayPal overall is unfairly balanced towards the buyer. I sold a complete set of TikiCoins on ebay a year ago and met all the criteria for seller protection that you listed above. The buyer claimed that the package arrived sealed and empty. I asked the buyer to please report the problem to the post office so I could begin the process of claiming the insurance $$. THe buyer did nothing, and asked for a refund. We communicated via email for 30 days (my trying to get the buyer to report the problem to the post office, they buyer trying to get a refund). I felt so bad I sent the buyer another Tiki Coin (I no longer could make a full set - he/she had bought the last one). Once the 30 days was up, they buyer reported fraud to PayPal and mailed me the empty package back along with the extra tiki coin I had sent. This is when I learned several VERY important things about dealing with Paypal and the post office. With Paypal, there is a 30 day moderated greivance period where the buyer and seller formally exchange emails that are read by Paypal. After this period, Paypal reviews the emails and decides who is "right". I had no idea of this, and was giving the buyer the benifit of the doubt - I was patiently trying to work out the problem outside of the paypal/ebay system. They buyer, on the other hand, was waiting for the 30 days to tick by, so he/she could then up their "fraud report" to the critical level and I was no longer allowed to reply or plead my case. PayPal then took the money out of my account. Ouch. The other lesson was, you can only get postal insurance if the person receiving the pacage files a report (via USPS). Even though the coins were fully insured against loss or damage, since the buyer never filled out a simple form I could not recoup my losses. So, I was out 5 TikiCoins and my $$!

Man! You can tell I needed to vent! Lesson learned - the SECOND you get some fishy things going on in a PayPal arrangement, contact paypal and begin the investigation process.

 

whew. My fingers are tired!

Tiki

 

Edit: Just re-read this - sounds so bitter! I gotta note I've sent out, like, 800 or so coins paid for with paypal, and have had only 1 problem. All in all, PayPal rocks - and I LOVE printing out my own postage labels.

Edited December 21, 2007 by tiki

[LoriDarlin]

Hey Tsun,

 

Sorry about your PayPal problems. I don't know what to offer in advice other than it might be a good idea to transfer your received payments into your bank account *immediately* in the future so that they can't do this to you again. It isn't the first time I've heard of this happening and so I've never let my PayPal account keep a balance in it for long for fear of what happened to you.

 

God speed on getting your money back.....

 

ps Since when did you take ownership of the SAINTS you GRIZZLIE fan Go saints!!! Go #76!! whoohoo!!!!!

 

Hang in there MM

[+tsunrisebey]

Aloha Tsun -

 

Sorry to hear about your PayPal woes. I wanted to add a bit to your excellent post on how to get seller protection via PayPal. Before I get into it though I want to say I use PayPal daily for selling my artwork, and I am 95% happy with it. It allows me to sell my work around the world without having to hand over a 50% commission to a gallery. That said, though, I do feel that PayPal overall is unfairly balanced towards the buyer. I sold a complete set of TikiCoins on ebay a year ago and met all the criteria for seller protection that you listed above. The buyer claimed that the package arrived sealed and empty. I asked the buyer to please report the problem to the post office so I could begin the process of claiming the insurance $$. THe buyer did nothing, and asked for a refund. We communicated via email for 30 days (my trying to get the buyer to report the problem to the post office, they buyer trying to get a refund). I felt so bad I sent the buyer another Tiki Coin (I no longer could make a full set - he/she had bought the last one). Once the 30 days was up, they buyer reported fraud to PayPal and mailed me the empty package back along with the extra tiki coin I had sent. This is when I learned several VERY important things about dealing with Paypal and the post office. With Paypal, there is a 30 day moderated greivance period where the buyer and seller formally exchange emails that are read by Paypal. After this period, Paypal reviews the emails and decides who is "right". I had no idea of this, and was giving the buyer the benifit of the doubt - I was patiently trying to work out the problem outside of the paypal/ebay system. They buyer, on the other hand, was waiting for the 30 days to tick by, so he/she could then up their "fraud report" to the critical level and I was no longer allowed to reply or plead my case. PayPal then took the money out of my account. Ouch. The other lesson was, you can only get postal insurance if the person receiving the pacage files a report (via USPS). Even though the coins were fully insured against loss or damage, since the buyer never filled out a simple form I could not recoup my losses. So, I was out 5 TikiCoins and my $$!

Man! You can tell I needed to vent! Lesson learned - the SECOND you get some fishy things going on in a PayPal arrangement, contact paypal and begin the investigation process.

 

whew. My fingers are tired!

Tiki

 

Edit: Just re-read this - sounds so bitter! I gotta note I've sent out, like, 800 or so coins paid for with paypal, and have had only 1 problem. All in all, PayPal rocks - and I LOVE printing out my own postage labels.

 

Thanks tiki. Up until this happened, I've been pretty lucky. Unfortunately I am not having problems with anyone other than paypal. No disputes from any particular customer on any particular transaction. Just high risk activity on my account (according to them ). Of course they won't tell me what that specifically is but hopefully I'll get this all straightened out in january some time. I've been reading about other problems with paypal and sellers and it is flat out scary.

 

LD, you're right about transferring funds right away. Not much to be done now I usually leave some in there to pay Groundspeak for the icon and tracking numbers (much easier to pay for that than mailing a check and waiting for days to get tracking numbers for the mint). OT: I've always been a Saints fan, I go to games when the Griz are away, lol. Scott graduated this semester too

 

Big D, I checked up on that transferring funds from your bank account back to the paypal account and they can do that. When I learned that this morning, I immediately did a stop loss on my bank account that will not allow paypal to transfer any funds from my bank account to my paypal account, it was $29 and will last for 6 months. I wasn't taking any chances with them! Then I transferred the funds out of that particular bank account into another one. The one in Switzerland I need to laugh or I'll get more mad.

 

So for those of you who think awwww this will never happen to me, I only sell a coin or two on ebay, I'm verified, etc. Trust me when I tell you, it CAN happen. All it takes is one minor thing for paypal to throw your account into a tailspin and you're pulling your hair out trying to "fix" a problem that you're not even sure what the problem is because they won't tell you and no one is disputing a transaction. I thought I was safe and I've been using paypal for a good 6 years now, never a problem until a week or so ago. I don't like airing my personal laundry for everyone to see but the only reason I do this is in hopes that this saves someone else from going through what I am now.

 

Thanks to those who have talked about their experiences, every little bit of knowledge helps. Thanks to those who have dropped me emails with ideas (although I've already done all of them, lol). We're all the little guy when it comes to paypal.

 

tsun

[+joranda]

Don't you think paypal makes enough from us already?

[+tiki]

I don't know what to offer in advice other than it might be a good idea to transfer your received payments into your bank account *immediately* in the future so that they can't do this to you again.

 

Hey there - I'm afraid this wouldn't really work. When PayPal awarded the buyer a refund from our account (see my post above) we didn't have enough in our paypal account to cover it. Paypal took what they could, then froze the account till we transfered funds into Paypal from the bank account we have tied into our PayPal account.

 

Serious stuff!

[+tadpole379]

I have been using paypal for all auctions I have won on ebay, and I used it for the sales of my tadpole coins and had no problems. Before the tadpole sales, I upgraded my account to a business account and I sent out invoices to everyone who had reserved coins. I printed out mailing labels through paypal (with tracking) for all US orders. (International orders I took to the PO to ship).

 

Maybe the fact that you used paypal buttons on your store instead of sending out invoices makes some kind of difference in the Paypal system. They could see it as different if you request money from someone via an invoice or if they just send you money. Just another possible explanation.

[+scavok]

...They won't give me the specific reason why they limited my account...

If they can limit your account for no reason then PayPal falls short on ethics.

 

These are not done for "no reason", it seems it is done for ANY reason.

 

I've experience this too. PayPal is absolutely biased towards the buyer, and I have had my paypal account frozen/drained more than once. I've been a verified business account since a month after paypal came into existence, but it doesn't matter. A buyer who has been a member for 2 days will get their way over me (it has happened)

 

I would rate my PayPal satisfaction at 80%. Unfortunately, it is as good as they come.

 

tsun, I guess just be happy its only a couple thousand dollars over geocoins. It will come to you in time; at least it wasn't a big car sale or something

[danoshimano]

A lot of people seem to be trying to apply logic to this, where this is none. Tsun, you did not do anything wrong or stupid. You are a victim.

 

Like any entity that handles large sums of money, there is money to be made in the "float". Paypal has frozen multitudes of accounts for no logical reason and while they don't legally claim the money, they have it in their accounts and they profit from that. Simple and hugely profitable (for them), and a nightmare (for the victims).

 

Banks could not get away with this kind of activity, and that is one of the reasons Paypal abandoned its plan to make itself into a "real" bank.