Quick question

[+jipow]

After reading the posts here I'm still confused, do you need permission or not to hide a micro in a parking lot light post?

[+joranda]

Rule of thumd, Yes. Do most people do it, No. Most call it public right of way, which it isn't, it's owned by someone. Do the right thing and ask first. It may save you trouble down the road.

[+egami]

Parking lot lamp posts, most of the time, are on private property. There are occasions where I've seen them on the ROW, but rarely.

[+StarBrand]

In general you should get permission for these. I seriously doubt very many had permission though.

 

BTW - "area of public accomendation" not "pulic right-of-way"

[+jipow]

Thats what I thought, just making sure.

[+Rockin Roddy]

If you don't own it, 99.9% of the time permission SHOULD be asked for!

[+PhxChem]

Rule of thumd, Yes. Do most people do it, No. Most call it public right of way, which it isn't, it's owned by someone.

 

What about those in public parks?

[Mr.Yuck]

Rule of thumd, Yes. Do most people do it, No. Most call it public right of way, which it isn't, it's owned by someone.

 

What about those in public parks?

 

I'd say no problemo there, although the vast majority of them are on private property in people's parking lots. The reviewers assume proper permission for placing caches because hiders check those two little boxes at the bottom of the cache form before hitting submit. That is why there are 126,347 lamp post micros in people's parking lots in America. (Not really, I just made that number up).

 

Cripes, what's up with all these permission threads the last few days? Bringing to attention, I suppose, what TheAlabamaRambler always refers to as geocaching's "dirty little secret".

[+sbell111]

Cripes, what's up with all these permission threads the last few days? Bringing to attention, I suppose, what TheAlabamaRambler always refers to as geocaching's "dirty little secret".

Most of those threads were not actually about permission but wee twisted to that topic by a few people who can't resist making every thread about their pet peaves. Edited January 5, 2008 by sbell111

[Mr.Yuck]

Cripes, what's up with all these permission threads the last few days? Bringing to attention, I suppose, what TheAlabamaRambler always refers to as geocaching's "dirty little secret".

Most of those threads were not actually about permission but wee twisted to that topic by a few people who can't resist making every thread about their pet peaves.

 

This is true, the electrical box thread had nothing to do with permission, originally. I hope I'm not twisting this thread.

[CoyoteRed]

After reading the posts here I'm still confused, do you need permission or not to hide a micro in a parking lot light post?

Might not be a bad idea to get explicit permission.

 

LPCs are not immune to bomb squads.

 

Remember, the test is "adequate permission." If it takes an act of Congress or it is one of implied "do what you want," it still has to be "adequate."

[+Team Cotati]

After reading the posts here I'm still confused, do you need permission or not to hide a micro in a parking lot light post?

Might not be a bad idea to get explicit permission.

 

LPCs are not immune to bomb squads.

 

Remember, the test is "adequate permission." If it takes an act of Congress or it is one of implied "do what you want," it still has to be "adequate."

 

And of course, if it is geocaching related, the intrepretation of what constitutes "adaquate" permission is left up to the descretion of each geocacher. Not the property owner/manager.

[+Renegade Knight]

After reading the posts here I'm still confused, do you need permission or not to hide a micro in a parking lot light post?

That depends on the parking lot, the owner and a couple of other factors.

[+Renegade Knight]

...And of course, if it is geocaching related, the intrepretation of what constitutes "adaquate" permission is left up to the descretion of each geocacher. Not the property owner/manager.

True, the cache owner being responsible is the one to seek, obtain, and determine if they have adequate permission. This is true of most things in life. Even the IRS will only tell you if you are out of compliance after you submit it. I don't know that they will verify your tax is right before you submit it and sign saying it's right.

[+egami]

Rule of thumd, Yes. Do most people do it, No. Most call it public right of way, which it isn't, it's owned by someone.

 

What about those in public parks?

 

Public parks, public recreational areas, are generally ok...I would make the distinction however that you should be careful and still avoid USFW and other known entities that have policies against geocaching because they still apply those rules to their parking areas. At least, the refuge here I know takes an "across the board" policy.

[+Miragee]

. . . "adaquate" . . .

adequate

 

[+egami]

. . . "adaquate" . . .

adequate

 

 

Firefox, ftw.

[CoyoteRed]

After reading the posts here I'm still confused, do you need permission or not to hide a micro in a parking lot light post?

Might not be a bad idea to get explicit permission.

 

LPCs are not immune to bomb squads.

 

Remember, the test is "adequate permission." If it takes an act of Congress or it is one of implied "do what you want," it still has to be "adequate."

And of course, if it is geocaching related, the intrepretation of what constitutes "adaquate" permission is left up to the descretion of each geocacher. Not the property owner/manager.

Well, yeah. It's the geocacher who is submitting the cache and agreeing to the terms. They on the other hand need to be trying to determine what level of permission is needed. Sure, it is at the discretion of the geocacher if there is no clear policy, but then the geocacher should trying to put themselves in the shoes of the steward to see if it would be allowed. Many times it is fairly clear. Many times it is not. To be safe, it's better to ask, discreetly.

 

OTOH, if there is a policy, then there is no discretion on the part of the geocacher. Either you comply with the request or you don't place the cache. Simple as that.

 

Either way, "adequate" always rises to the lowest point necessary. If the permission level is below that then you don't have "adequate permission."

[+Glenn]

After reading the posts here I'm still confused, do you need permission or not to hide a micro in a parking lot light post?

Might not be a bad idea to get explicit permission.

 

LPCs are not immune to bomb squads.

 

Remember, the test is "adequate permission." If it takes an act of Congress or it is one of implied "do what you want," it still has to be "adequate."

 

Copper theft is prevalent in my area. If someone saw me lifting the skirt of a lamp post they would think that I'm either a really bold or really stupid copper thief.

 

Rule of thumd, Yes. Do most people do it, No. Most call it public right of way, which it isn't, it's owned by someone.

 

What about those in public parks?

 

Public parks, public recreational areas, are generally ok...I would make the distinction however that you should be careful and still avoid USFW and other known entities that have policies against geocaching because they still apply those rules to their parking areas. At least, the refuge here I know takes an "across the board" policy.

 

Public property is NOT a free for all. A regional park near me, which is a public park, has quite a few large and well taken care of baseball fields. I'd love to do donuts on one of the ballfields but that would get me arrested if I did it without permission. Lamp posts are meant to hold up lights to illuminate the area around them they are not meant to hold geocaches. Using lamp posts for geocaching is using them for something they were not designed or intended to be used for. Therefore permission should always be sought whenever you want to use a lamp post for geocaching.

[+PhxChem]

Public property is NOT a free for all.

 

No one here said it was.

 

A regional park near me, which is a public park, has quite a few large and well taken care of baseball fields. I'd love to do donuts on one of the ballfields but that would get me arrested if I did it without permission.

 

Of course you would. That's pretty obvious. But what exactly does that have to with geocaching? Oh, I get it....they're equivalent.....righhhhhht...

 

Using lamp posts for geocaching is using them for something they were not designed or intended to be used for

 

What locations do you know ARE designed or intended for geocaching?

Edited January 6, 2008 by PhxChem

[+egami]

Public property is NOT a free for all. A regional park near me, which is a public park, has quite a few large and well taken care of baseball fields. I'd love to do donuts on one of the ballfields but that would get me arrested if I did it without permission. Lamp posts are meant to hold up lights to illuminate the area around them they are not meant to hold geocaches. Using lamp posts for geocaching is using them for something they were not designed or intended to be used for. Therefore permission should always be sought whenever you want to use a lamp post for geocaching.

 

I make that point here constantly regarding public propert...not sure what you read that would insinuate I ever thought that.

 

As far as skirt usage...I used to feel the same way regarding potential damage, but the ones I have seen that have had many, many visitors are all in good shape, so I don't have a problem regarding that anymore. Not all are created equal though and if I thought one was in potential position to have wear issues I'd probably approach the owner about it.

 

Permission should always be sought when the circumstance dictates. Sorry you miscomprehended whatever I wrote that you felt stated otherwise.

Edited January 6, 2008 by egami

[me_chris]

. . . "adaquate" . . .

adequate

 

 

Firefox, ftw.

 

Long live built-in spell check :-)

[+egami]

. . . "adaquate" . . .

adequate

 

 

Firefox, ftw.

 

Long live built-in spell check :-)

 

And long live anything that isn't a M$ product.

[+joranda]

In the park of my town, you need permission no matter where it is. Plus you need a permit too.

[+Glenn]

I make that point here constantly regarding public propert...not sure what you read that would insinuate I ever thought that.

 

As far as skirt usage...I used to feel the same way regarding potential damage, but the ones I have seen that have had many, many visitors are all in good shape, so I don't have a problem regarding that anymore. Not all are created equal though and if I thought one was in potential position to have wear issues I'd probably approach the owner about it.

 

Permission should always be sought when the circumstance dictates. Sorry you miscomprehended whatever I wrote that you felt stated otherwise.

 

When I read the line "Public parks, public recreational areas, are generally ok" I had misinterpreted that as a permission not needed for those areas type of comment. Sorry for the misinterpretation.

 

What locations do you know ARE designed or intended for geocaching?

 

Any location in which the cache owner has the permission of the land/property owner or manager to place the cache. Those are the areas that I consider designated and/or intended for geocaching. Its a very simple concept. If you want to place a cache then let the person whose responsibility it is to look after the property know what you are doing.

[+Glenn]

A regional park near me, which is a public park, has quite a few large and well taken care of baseball fields. I'd love to

on one of the ballfields but that would get me arrested if I did it without permission.

 

Of course you would. That's pretty obvious. But what exactly does that have to with geocaching? Oh, I get it....they're equivalent.....righhhhhht...

 

I try and bring a little humor in to the forums and some people get all testy. Geez No wonder some people feel unwelcome here.

[Mushtang]

A regional park near me, which is a public park, has quite a few large and well taken care of baseball fields. I'd love to

on one of the ballfields but that would get me arrested if I did it without permission.

 

Of course you would. That's pretty obvious. But what exactly does that have to with geocaching? Oh, I get it....they're equivalent.....righhhhhht...

 

I try and bring a little humor in to the forums and some people get all testy. Geez No wonder some people feel unwelcome here.

I didn't take it as humor when I read it either, I took it on face value.

 

I'd suggest that if you're trying to inject humor you add a "j/k", a Smilie, or both. Otherwise folks will assume you mean what you say, and you'll get offended by it again.

[+CSpenceFLY]

After reading the posts here I'm still confused, do you need permission or not to hide a micro in a parking lot light post?

 

Do your fellow cachers a favor and get creative and come up with a good cache.

[+egami]

When I read the line "Public parks, public recreational areas, are generally ok" I had misinterpreted that as a permission not needed for those areas type of comment. Sorry for the misinterpretation.

 

No problem.

 

By and large I am not a big advocate of the mentality that "public" property is a free for all like so many people seem to believe. I am sure we don't agree 100%, but for the most part you are going to find me on your side of the issue of any "public property" discussions.

[+michigansnorkelers]

A good question to ask yourself is "Could another geocacher get in trouble if found looking for this cache".

 

I have made FTF attempts on caches where this happened on the same day. One involved a cache hidden in a tree on bank property.

[+Bunganator]

I've done my fair share of skirtlifters on roadtrips and such, but I generally think that shirtlifters are lame. There are so many places to hid a cache in this great world, so why would anyone hide one in front of their favorite Target store? It isn't about permission, its about fun, high quality caching.

[+sbell111]

I've done my fair share of skirtlifters on roadtrips and such, but I generally think that shirtlifters are lame. There are so many places to hid a cache in this great world, so why would anyone hide one in front of their favorite Target store? It isn't about permission, its about fun, high quality caching.

On the other hand, quality is in the eye of the beholder.

 

One of the most memorable caches that I've found was a LPM in front of my favorite Target store. It took me three tries to make the find, even though I had found many, many LPMs previously.

[+briansnat]

Public property is NOT a free for all. A regional park near me, which is a public park, has quite a few large and well taken care of baseball fields. I'd love to do donuts on one of the ballfields but that would get me arrested if I did it without permission. Lamp posts are meant to hold up lights to illuminate the area around them they are not meant to hold geocaches.

 

I would think there is a difference between intentional vandalism and the benign act of putting a film canister under a lamp post skirt.

[+egami]

I've done my fair share of skirtlifters on roadtrips and such, but I generally think that shirtlifters are lame. There are so many places to hid a cache in this great world, so why would anyone hide one in front of their favorite Target store? It isn't about permission, its about fun, high quality caching.

On the other hand, quality is in the eye of the beholder.

 

One of the most memorable caches that I've found was a LPM in front of my favorite Target store. It took me three tries to make the find, even though I had found many, many LPMs previously.

 

I agree. I've found one that was actually somewhat unique. I can see where these would be annoying after while, but they are fun experiences for new cachers the first time they find one.

 

I don't know...I suppose to some people the standard ammo box in the pile of wood could become mundane.

 

Quality is definitely unique to each person.

[+sbell111]

I've done my fair share of skirtlifters on roadtrips and such, but I generally think that shirtlifters are lame. There are so many places to hid a cache in this great world, so why would anyone hide one in front of their favorite Target store? It isn't about permission, its about fun, high quality caching.

On the other hand, quality is in the eye of the beholder.

 

One of the most memorable caches that I've found was a LPM in front of my favorite Target store. It took me three tries to make the find, even though I had found many, many LPMs previously.

I agree. I've found one that was actually somewhat unique. I can see where these would be annoying after while, but they are fun experiences for new cachers the first time they find one.

 

I don't know...I suppose to some people the standard ammo box in the pile of wood could become mundane.

 

Quality is definitely unique to each person.

The cache that I mentioned wasn't a bit unique. It is memorable largely because of my poor job of finding it. It was fun because my attitude allowed it to be.

[+egami]

The cache that I mentioned wasn't a bit unique. It is memorable largely because of my poor job of finding it. It was fun because my attitude allowed it to be.

 

You missed the memo? We're supposed to curse at these and drive off once we hit the parking lot and discern it's another LPM...

[+Team Cotati]

I've done my fair share of skirtlifters on roadtrips and such, but I generally think that shirtlifters are lame. There are so many places to hid a cache in this great world, so why would anyone hide one in front of their favorite Target store? It isn't about permission, its about fun, high quality caching.

 

I couldn't agree more. If you are having fun, to heck with that silly permission thing.

[+Glenn]

Public property is NOT a free for all. A regional park near me, which is a public park, has quite a few large and well taken care of baseball fields. I'd love to do donuts on one of the ballfields but that would get me arrested if I did it without permission. Lamp posts are meant to hold up lights to illuminate the area around them they are not meant to hold geocaches.

 

I would think there is a difference between intentional vandalism and the benign act of putting a film canister under a lamp post skirt.

 

Benign or not that shouldn't change the fact that permission should be sought when hiding caches even if the cache is on public property. I know a few geocachers that like to pretend that they are playing some Cloak and Dagger, Spy vs Spy, or Find The Secret Pirate Treasure type game. That is fine when they are searching for caches. However when they become cache owners that attitude needs to change. Intentionally keeping a cache secret from those who maintain the area is never a good idea even if the placement is benign.

[Mushtang]

Public property is NOT a free for all. A regional park near me, which is a public park, has quite a few large and well taken care of baseball fields. I'd love to do donuts on one of the ballfields but that would get me arrested if I did it without permission. Lamp posts are meant to hold up lights to illuminate the area around them they are not meant to hold geocaches.

 

I would think there is a difference between intentional vandalism and the benign act of putting a film canister under a lamp post skirt.

 

Benign or not that shouldn't change the fact that permission should be sought when hiding caches even if the cache is on public property. I know a few geocachers that like to pretend that they are playing some Cloak and Dagger, Spy vs Spy, or Find The Secret Pirate Treasure type game. That is fine when they are searching for caches. However when they become cache owners that attitude needs to change. Intentionally keeping a cache secret from those who maintain the area is never a good idea even if the placement is benign.

Would you walk inside Walmart and ask to speak to the manager to ask his permission before you and a friend played Frisbee in the empty corner of the parking lot during your lunch hour? If you don't play Frisbee, would you believe that permission is required by those that do?

 

What about someone that plays Frisbee on their lunch hour on the baseball field of the local park? Do they need to contact the parks department to get permission first?

 

Just curious.

[+Glenn]

Would you walk inside Walmart and ask to speak to the manager to ask his permission before you and a friend played Frisbee in the empty corner of the parking lot during your lunch hour? If you don't play Frisbee, would you believe that permission is required by those that do?

 

What about someone that plays Frisbee on their lunch hour on the baseball field of the local park? Do they need to contact the parks department to get permission first?

 

Just curious.

 

Ah yes, the Frisbee argument. It has been a while since I've seen the Frisbee argument come up in the forums. The Frisbee argument is an illustration of acceptable use. However the Frisbee argument can't be directly applied to geocaching. There are some critical differences. One being that in geocaching all the players aren't on the field at the same time or even the same month.

 

Lets talk about acceptable use as it is applied to geocaching instead of playing Frisbee. Before placing a cache one should make themselves aware of the rules and regulations of the area they plan to place their cache. We all know that geocaching is rarely spelled out in the rules and regulations of most places. This is were common sense has to come in and unfortunately common sense isn't so common. So the best course of action is to ask someone with authority over that area what is acceptable to them.

 

When someone places a cache they must put a check mark in a box to confirm that they have read and understand the guidelines for listing a cache. Since the cache not be listed unless this box is checked the cache hunter can safely assume that the box has been checked. Part of the guidelines state "By submitting a cache listing, you assure us that you have adequate permission to hide your cache in the selected location." Adequate permission can be gained in a number of ways. A park may have guidelines of its own spelling out where the recreational areas are and the recreational equipment available for use. If not then it is up to the cache owner to ask.

 

What happens when a cache owner checks that box and didn't get adequate permission to place their cache? Most of the time nothing happens. However sometimes park staff does notice some odd behavior and questions the cache hunter. A cache owner has rudely put a cache hunter in to a situation where the cache hunter is often asked to explain why the cache owner didn't get permission to place the cache.

[Mushtang]

Would you walk inside Walmart and ask to speak to the manager to ask his permission before you and a friend played Frisbee in the empty corner of the parking lot during your lunch hour? If you don't play Frisbee, would you believe that permission is required by those that do?

 

What about someone that plays Frisbee on their lunch hour on the baseball field of the local park? Do they need to contact the parks department to get permission first?

 

Just curious.

 

Ah yes, the Frisbee argument. It has been a while since I've seen the Frisbee argument come up in the forums. The Frisbee argument is an illustration of acceptable use. However the Frisbee argument can't be directly applied to geocaching. There are some critical differences. One being that in geocaching all the players aren't on the field at the same time or even the same month.

 

Lets talk about acceptable use as it is applied to geocaching instead of playing Frisbee. Before placing a cache one should make themselves aware of the rules and regulations of the area they plan to place their cache. We all know that geocaching is rarely spelled out in the rules and regulations of most places. This is were common sense has to come in and unfortunately common sense isn't so common. So the best course of action is to ask someone with authority over that area what is acceptable to them.

 

When someone places a cache they must put a check mark in a box to confirm that they have read and understand the guidelines for listing a cache. Since the cache not be listed unless this box is checked the cache hunter can safely assume that the box has been checked. Part of the guidelines state "By submitting a cache listing, you assure us that you have adequate permission to hide your cache in the selected location." Adequate permission can be gained in a number of ways. A park may have guidelines of its own spelling out where the recreational areas are and the recreational equipment available for use. If not then it is up to the cache owner to ask.

 

What happens when a cache owner checks that box and didn't get adequate permission to place their cache? Most of the time nothing happens. However sometimes park staff does notice some odd behavior and questions the cache hunter. A cache owner has rudely put a cache hunter in to a situation where the cache hunter is often asked to explain why the cache owner didn't get permission to place the cache.

Ah yes, the "adequate" argument. I completely agree that Frisbee and geocaching aren't the same and there are differences, however I was not asking questions about Frisbee to imply that they were the same. My only point was to show that the permission issue is the same for me and for a lot of other people, and to ask you how you felt about Frisbee players asking for permission. I'm not following you at all with your point that the geocaching players aren't all on the field at the same time. I'm not even sure what that means.

 

Lets talk about acceptable use as it is applied to geocaching. You say that "the best course of action is to ask someone with authority over that area what is acceptable to them" when deciding whether or not to hide a geocache. That implies that express permission is required on each and every cache. I'd suggest that a better wording of your phrase would be "the best course of action is to decide if express permission is required or not, and if so ask someone with authority over that area what is acceptable to them, if not use good geocaching practices when hiding the cache."

 

You also say "A park may have guidelines of its own spelling out where the recreational areas are and the recreational equipment available for use. If not then it is up to the cache owner to ask." However I doubt any park would include every possible behavior that is allowed, and therefore they have a lot of general statements that would cover allowable things such as Frisbee, running, walking, practicing Yoga, having a handstand contest, etc. They probably also wouldn't have statements to specify every single thing that isn't allowed, so I also doubt any park would allow screaming contests, digging for gold, throwing nails at kids, etc. Their general statements include verbiage to disallow these things too. So, if some county park had some general statements allowing recreational activities but didn't specify Frisbee, would you feel that it would be up to you to ask before you played? It's clear you feel it's up to you to ask before you hide a cache, so I'm just asking.

 

You ask what happens when a cache owner checks that box and didn't get adequate permission to place their cache? I'd argue that they DID have adequate permission, or at least thought they did based on their interpretation of the rules. So they weren't lying when they checked the box. It's entirely possible that park staff will ask you what you're doing when looking for a cache just as they might ask you what you're doing if you're doing anything else they're not familiar with. This doesn't necessarily mean you're doing something wrong. You don't like the fact that sometimes finders are the ones that end up talking to park staff instead of the hider. So then this goes back to it sounding like you expect express permission for all caches in parks. Am I following you correctly?

 

We clearly disagree on when adequate permission can be assumed, and when express permission is required in parks, when it comes to geocaching. I'm still curious if you think this is the same for playing Frisbee or not.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Always fun to watch geocachers dance around the 'adequate' permission issue!

 

I am amazed at some of the leaps of logic cachers can jump to rather than just asking permission or hiding it somewhere else... or, why not just admit that you have no intention of asking for permission?

Edited January 8, 2008 by TheAlabamaRambler

[Mushtang]

Always fun to watch geocachers dance around the 'adequate' permission issue!

 

I am amazed at some of the leaps of logic cachers can jump to rather than just asking permission or hiding it somewhere else... or, why not just admit that you have no intention of asking for permission?

I didn't think I was dancing around it. It seemed pretty clear cut to me. In cases of Wally World type LPCs, or caches in county parks, I would hide a cache without asking for express permission, because I believe I already have adequate permission.

 

Adequate permission is all that is required, and adequate permission is all I've claimed to have gotten when I check the little box.

 

I never intended to sound like my posts were the final word on the matter. I was attempting to find out what other people thought about permission when it comes to other games in similar places, such as Frisbee. I didn't get a good answer though, all I got was "The Frisbee argument doesn't apply" and "I'm amazed at the leaps of logic".

[+egami]

Kind of hard to have adequate permission without actually having received any permission.

[Mushtang]

Kind of hard to have adequate permission without actually having received any permission.

True. But I don't think a county park that is opened to the public can be considered not giving permission to the public to enjoy the park for recreational activities.

 

There's a large difference between not having received any permission and having received adequate permission.

[+simpjkee]

LOL! a "quick question" that ends up as a three page thread.

[+sbell111]

LOL! a "quick question" that ends up as a three page thread.

Ummm, the threads on page one and going nowhere. Coincidently, that is the same place all the other threads on this topic went.

 

Some people insist on misdefining 'adequate' to try to make it synonymous with 'express'. Frankly, I'm too bored with the argument to try to make one more attempt at explaining the difference.

[+egami]

Kind of hard to have adequate permission without actually having received any permission.

True. But I don't think a county park that is opened to the public can be considered not giving permission to the public to enjoy the park for recreational activities.

 

There's a large difference between not having received any permission and having received adequate permission.

 

I was more referring to the Wal-mart reference.

[+sbell111]

Kind of hard to have adequate permission without actually having received any permission.

True. But I don't think a county park that is opened to the public can be considered not giving permission to the public to enjoy the park for recreational activities.

 

There's a large difference between not having received any permission and having received adequate permission.

I was more referring to the Wal-mart reference.

Either way.

 

Let's imagine that we're driving my RV across country because we want to find some of those awesome caches in Iowa. I pull into an empty area of WalMart's parking lot and drop anchor for the night. Would it be OK for us to toss a frisbee, or should I go in the store and ask permission?

[+egami]

Kind of hard to have adequate permission without actually having received any permission.

True. But I don't think a county park that is opened to the public can be considered not giving permission to the public to enjoy the park for recreational activities.

 

There's a large difference between not having received any permission and having received adequate permission.

I was more referring to the Wal-mart reference.

Either way.

 

Let's imagine that we're driving my RV across country because we want to find some of those awesome caches in Iowa. I pull into an empty area of WalMart's parking lot and drop anchor for the night. Would it be OK for us to toss a frisbee, or should I go in the store and ask permission?

 

Apples, meet oranges.