Audit Log

[+purple_pineapple]

A question for TPTB! This has been asked recently, but irrelevent issues got discussed instead, and there was no answer from the knowledgable ones!

 

Could premium members have an audit log on their non-subscriber caches? If the server load is too much, could this be time-limited in some way to keep the numbers down?

 

I believe this would be a very popular feature, and might encourage those on the fence to pay for PM!

 

cheers

 

Dave

[+fishingdude720]

Agreed. When I was a PM it was cool to read the Audit Logs. That might convince me to renew my membership since I never really used PQ's and the route thing.

[+gof1]

Sounds interesting to me.

What would the negatives be? Leaving the whole PQ arguments out of it.

[+TrailGators]

Sounds interesting to me.

What would the negatives be? Leaving the whole PQ arguments out of it.

Seems like the only negatives would be that PMOCs would lose a major benefit and maybe it would slow down the servers.

[+Beaverbeliever]

I have brought this up before. According to Groundspeak when I emailed them, they said that it was a Premium Members only tool. My thoughts are is to allow it for caches that are Non-Premium Members Only, but only allow Premium Member cache owners read the Audit Log. To my knowledge, it wouldn't slow down the servers at all.

 

Thanks for re-posting!

[+Beaverbeliever]

I have brought this up before. According to Groundspeak when I emailed them, they said that it was a Premium Members only tool. My thoughts are is to allow it for caches that are Non-Premium Members Only, but only allow Premium Member cache owners read the Audit Log. To my knowledge, it wouldn't slow down the servers at all.

 

Thanks for re-posting!

[+BlueDeuce]

Somewhat older member but newbie question; I've never read an Audit Log. What are the benefits? Is it just for who views your cache page?

[+TrailGators]

Somewhat older member but newbie question; I've never read an Audit Log. What are the benefits? Is it just for who views your cache page?

Yes, it tells you who visited; how many times they've viewed your cache page and when they first viewed and last viewed your cache page. Edited March 2, 2008 by TrailGators

[+WRASTRO]

Personally I find the audit logs a bit too much like big brother for my tastes.

[+TrailGators]

Personally I find the audit logs a bit too much like big brother for my tastes.

They are actually very handy for puzzle caches. If I see a lot of people viewing the cache page but nobody is cracking the puzzle then I will slowly add hints. I do agree that all we really need to know is how many different people are viewing the page and how often they are viewing the page. Edited March 2, 2008 by TrailGators

[+BlueDeuce]

Somewhat older member but newbie question; I've never read an Audit Log. What are the benefits? Is it just for who views your cache page?

Yes, it tells you who visited; how many times they've viewed your cache page and when they first viewed and last viewed your cache page.

 

Thank you.

[Motorcycle_Mama]

Other than for what TrailGators posted, I'm not sure I understand the value. I'm not saying I'm against it, I'm just trying to figure what what's to be gained by the audit log.

[+JeremyR]

I do agree that all we really need to know is how many different people are viewing the page and how often they are viewing the page.

You can achieve that with a free hitcounter. Google for free hitcounter and you'll get countless (hehe ) options. The one I have on mine is discreet on the page and sends me an email each week to tell me how many viewers I've had, and what proportion of them are first-time vs returning viewers. It doesn't know who visited, just how many.

 

Personally I'd also like to be able to see the audit log without having to make the cache PMO. I'd hazard a guess that the logs probably already exist for every cache for internal debugging/monitoring and it would just be a matter of turning it on... Would be nice

[+The Other Stu]

Other than for what TrailGators posted, I'm not sure I understand the value. I'm not saying I'm against it, I'm just trying to figure what what's to be gained by the audit log.

We've had 2 problems in the UK lately. The first was where some caches have been replaced with party poppers. The second problem has been where an area's caches have been stolen (and no, we're not talking about a 1 mile radius, this area is in the back end of nowhere and covers a 200 square mile+ area)

 

If we could do this, TPTB would be able to support us when things go wrong like this.

 

As someone else pointed out , it's very useful to know who's viewing your caches. With the Wherigo feature, it's very interesting to compare how many people download a cartridge to how many actually solve it.

 

This is basically asking for the same feature - IMHO, if you view it, you're at least interested in that cache, even if you're not going to actually attempt it.

 

Don't forget too, a lot of people don't post DNFs.

[+TrailGators]

Other than for what TrailGators posted, I'm not sure I understand the value. I'm not saying I'm against it, I'm just trying to figure what what's to be gained by the audit log.

We've had 2 problems in the UK lately. The first was where some caches have been replaced with party poppers. The second problem has been where an area's caches have been stolen (and no, we're not talking about a 1 mile radius, this area is in the back end of nowhere and covers a 200 square mile+ area)

 

If we could do this, TPTB would be able to support us when things go wrong like this.

 

As someone else pointed out , it's very useful to know who's viewing your caches. With the Wherigo feature, it's very interesting to compare how many people download a cartridge to how many actually solve it.

 

This is basically asking for the same feature - IMHO, if you view it, you're at least interested in that cache, even if you're not going to actually attempt it.

 

Don't forget too, a lot of people don't post DNFs.

This is another good use of this feature. Some may argue that people can download PQs and so you won't see those people. However, I doubt that paying members are the thieves so this could be effective. I've never had one of my caches stolen after converting it to a PMOC.

[Motorcycle_Mama]

Ok, but just because someone views a cache page doesn't mean they go there. I look at a lot of pages that I'll never go to.

 

Plus, this doesn't account for people who get PQs and use GSAK and thus maybe never actually view the cache page.

 

Plus, I don't think that TPTB want to become the police. They wouldn't have much authority to do much other than ban the user who could just start another account.

 

And lastly, at least in the US, just having a list of who viewed a cache page, certainly wouldn't be evidence of anything beyond the fact that they viewed the page. Jumping to the conclusion that those who viewed the page must be the culprits seems like a conjecture not supported by proof.

[+TrailGators]

Ok, but just because someone views a cache page doesn't mean they go there. I look at a lot of pages that I'll never go to.

 

Plus, this doesn't account for people who get PQs and use GSAK and thus maybe never actually view the cache page.

 

Plus, I don't think that TPTB want to become the police. They wouldn't have much authority to do much other than ban the user who could just start another account.

 

And lastly, at least in the US, just having a list of who viewed a cache page, certainly wouldn't be evidence of anything beyond the fact that they viewed the page. Jumping to the conclusion that those who viewed the page must be the culprits seems like a conjecture not supported by proof.

If you had several caches disappear and the same sock puppet account had viewed those caches before they disappeared then it would be very suspicious. TPTB could block that account and any other accounts from that IP. However, the person could just get another sock puppet account with a different IP. This is why it's better to just convert caches at risk to PMOCs.

[+gof1]

I think some are reading too much into this. I don't think it will be of use in stopping a cache maggot and I know there are ways to circumvent the audit log. Sometimes it's just fun to see who has been looking at a cache. The down side of it is that in order to do that now the cache must be PM only. I would like to be able to view an audit log on my non-pm caches.

 

I'd like to see it as a PM benefit to view a cache log on any owned caches.

[Mr.Yuck]

Personally I find the audit logs a bit too much like big brother for my tastes.

 

I would agree, being a person who pretty recently received an email from someone asking me why I looked at their cache page!! I was just surfing Geocaching Google maps, and didn't even know I clicked on an MOC. Being from another part of the country, the cache owner obviously investigated my profile, and clicked all around my hides and finds to see where I was from.

 

I thought this was totally bizarre, emailing a stranger on the internet (whom you just investigated), and asking them why they looked at your web page. Maybe it's just me though. I will say that cache owner is lucky I decided to delete the email and never respond. Because believe me, they wouldn't have wanted to hear my response.

[+StarBrand]

Personally I find the audit logs a bit too much like big brother for my tastes.

 

I would agree, being a person who pretty recently received an email from someone asking me why I looked at their cache page!! I was just surfing Geocaching Google maps, and didn't even know I clicked on an MOC. Being from another part of the country, the cache owner obviously investigated my profile, and clicked all around my hides and finds to see where I was from.

 

I thought this was totally bizarre, emailing a stranger on the internet (whom you just investigated), and asking them why they looked at your web page. Maybe it's just me though. I will say that cache owner is lucky I decided to delete the email and never respond. Because believe me, they wouldn't have wanted to hear my response.

Agreed - I've had that happen as well. I was just browsing one day. A few days later I got an email asking why I was looking at thier PMOC.

 

I don't need more of that. Also don't need folks using those logs to try and determine who left a cache uncovered or who didn't log a travel bug or who stole what when. Lots of finger poiting going on already with scant evidence.

[Motorcycle_Mama]

Exactly

[Mr.Yuck]

Personally I find the audit logs a bit too much like big brother for my tastes.

 

I would agree, being a person who pretty recently received an email from someone asking me why I looked at their cache page!! I was just surfing Geocaching Google maps, and didn't even know I clicked on an MOC. Being from another part of the country, the cache owner obviously investigated my profile, and clicked all around my hides and finds to see where I was from.

 

I thought this was totally bizarre, emailing a stranger on the internet (whom you just investigated), and asking them why they looked at your web page. Maybe it's just me though. I will say that cache owner is lucky I decided to delete the email and never respond. Because believe me, they wouldn't have wanted to hear my response.

Agreed - I've had that happen as well. I was just browsing one day. A few days later I got an email asking why I was looking at thier PMOC.

 

I don't need more of that. Also don't need folks using those logs to try and determine who left a cache uncovered or who didn't log a travel bug or who stole what when. Lots of finger poiting going on already with scant evidence.

 

Thanks Starbrand, I knew it couldn't just be me. Too bad I don't remember who it was, I could mess with them by viewing their cache page, oh, I don't know, about 300 times a month.

 

Good point also on the accusations on scant evidence about people not logging TB's, not hiding the cache well enough etc.. I've never seen or heard of that hapening, but I'm sure it does.

[+ChileHead]

I would agree, being a person who pretty recently received an email from someone asking me why I looked at their cache page!! I was just surfing Geocaching Google maps, and didn't even know I clicked on an MOC. Being from another part of the country, the cache owner obviously investigated my profile, and clicked all around my hides and finds to see where I was from.

 

Which cache was it? Maybe I'll look at it too.

[Mr.Yuck]

I would agree, being a person who pretty recently received an email from someone asking me why I looked at their cache page!! I was just surfing Geocaching Google maps, and didn't even know I clicked on an MOC. Being from another part of the country, the cache owner obviously investigated my profile, and clicked all around my hides and finds to see where I was from.

 

Which cache was it? Maybe I'll look at it too.

 

Couldn't remember if I wanted to, although this all happened at most 6 weeks ago. The cache was definitely in Caleefornia (as the Governator would say) though.

[+Prime Suspect]

Personally I find the audit logs a bit too much like big brother for my tastes.

 

I would agree, being a person who pretty recently received an email from someone asking me why I looked at their cache page!! I was just surfing Geocaching Google maps, and didn't even know I clicked on an MOC. Being from another part of the country, the cache owner obviously investigated my profile, and clicked all around my hides and finds to see where I was from.

 

I thought this was totally bizarre, emailing a stranger on the internet (whom you just investigated), and asking them why they looked at your web page. Maybe it's just me though. I will say that cache owner is lucky I decided to delete the email and never respond. Because believe me, they wouldn't have wanted to hear my response.

Agreed - I've had that happen as well. I was just browsing one day. A few days later I got an email asking why I was looking at thier PMOC.

 

I don't need more of that. Also don't need folks using those logs to try and determine who left a cache uncovered or who didn't log a travel bug or who stole what when. Lots of finger poiting going on already with scant evidence.

 

Exactly the same reason why watchlists should remain undisclosed.

[+TrailGators]

Personally I find the audit logs a bit too much like big brother for my tastes.

 

I would agree, being a person who pretty recently received an email from someone asking me why I looked at their cache page!! I was just surfing Geocaching Google maps, and didn't even know I clicked on an MOC. Being from another part of the country, the cache owner obviously investigated my profile, and clicked all around my hides and finds to see where I was from.

 

I thought this was totally bizarre, emailing a stranger on the internet (whom you just investigated), and asking them why they looked at your web page. Maybe it's just me though. I will say that cache owner is lucky I decided to delete the email and never respond. Because believe me, they wouldn't have wanted to hear my response.

Agreed - I've had that happen as well. I was just browsing one day. A few days later I got an email asking why I was looking at thier PMOC.

 

I don't need more of that. Also don't need folks using those logs to try and determine who left a cache uncovered or who didn't log a travel bug or who stole what when. Lots of finger poiting going on already with scant evidence.

 

Exactly the same reason why watchlists should remain undisclosed.

That's why I said this back in post #5.

 

I do agree that all we really need to know is how many different people are viewing the page and how often they are viewing the page.

[Mr.Yuck]

Personally I find the audit logs a bit too much like big brother for my tastes.

 

I would agree, being a person who pretty recently received an email from someone asking me why I looked at their cache page!! I was just surfing Geocaching Google maps, and didn't even know I clicked on an MOC. Being from another part of the country, the cache owner obviously investigated my profile, and clicked all around my hides and finds to see where I was from.

 

I thought this was totally bizarre, emailing a stranger on the internet (whom you just investigated), and asking them why they looked at your web page. Maybe it's just me though. I will say that cache owner is lucky I decided to delete the email and never respond. Because believe me, they wouldn't have wanted to hear my response.

Agreed - I've had that happen as well. I was just browsing one day. A few days later I got an email asking why I was looking at thier PMOC.

 

I don't need more of that. Also don't need folks using those logs to try and determine who left a cache uncovered or who didn't log a travel bug or who stole what when. Lots of finger poiting going on already with scant evidence.

 

Exactly the same reason why watchlists should remain undisclosed.

 

Oh, I can just imagine the emails rolling into my inbox. "Hello TWU, you don't know me, but I was just wondering, why are you watching my cache?"

 

I was never against audit logs (or more accurately, never really thought about them), but after I received that email, I say get rid of them altogether, let alone expand their use. I mean really, some people in this thread seem to have suggested people would actually be more likely to become a PM, so they can observe other people's web surfing habits?

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

Personally I find the audit logs a bit too much like big brother for my tastes.

 

I would agree, being a person who pretty recently received an email from someone asking me why I looked at their cache page!! I was just surfing Geocaching Google maps, and didn't even know I clicked on an MOC. Being from another part of the country, the cache owner obviously investigated my profile, and clicked all around my hides and finds to see where I was from.

 

I thought this was totally bizarre, emailing a stranger on the internet (whom you just investigated), and asking them why they looked at your web page. Maybe it's just me though. I will say that cache owner is lucky I decided to delete the email and never respond. Because believe me, they wouldn't have wanted to hear my response.

How bizarre that you received that letter from the PM cache owner! Weird! Could they perhaps have been hoping that you, as an out-of-state cacher, might shortly be seeking their cache? If so, it sounds like they did not explain their intent while sending the email very well! BTW, if you can remember which cache page visit it was that caused that letter to be generated, please let me know -- I would love to visit that cache listing page myself!

 

And, ummmm... White Urkel, the audit logs for several of our Psycho Urban Caches show that you have visited them, and therefore, as "retaliation"...

 

...if you wish to contact me via PM or private email (to be found on our profile page) and send some shipping address info, I will be happy to send you a free Psycho Urban Cache refrigerator magnet via postal mail!

 

Just for the record, we own a large number of PMO caches (primarily caches in the Psycho Urban Cache and Psycho Backcountry Caches series) which happen to be very popular, a good number have 30 or more watchlisters, and some have over 100, and many of these caches appear on many public bookmark lists, and the audit logs show that the cache listing pages are often visited by dozens (on some days, hundreds...) of visitors per day from all over the planet. I thoroughly enjoy reading the audit logs to see who visited, and I am merely happy about the large number of visitors; I would never think (as did your respondent) of writing a visitor to ask them WHY they visited our cache listing page! Of course, then again, if I were to visit my audit log fro one of my really extreme 5/5 caches and notice that Lara Croft had just visited the page, well, I just might send her a PM offering to be her personal tour guide on her attempt to tackle the cache!

 

BTW, I happen to have a fairly well-visited MySpace page (no, it is not about geocaching and does not mention geocaching), and I use a third-party visitor tracking service on that page which is also able to attach MySpace ID tags to some of the visitors so that they are not all anonymous, and, just as I enjoy viewing the audit logs for my cache listing pages, I really enjoy viewing the visitor stats for my MySpace page as well! In fact, I noted with much amusement one day a couple of months ago that in the past 24 hours my page had received six visits from an account at the Holy See in the Vatican in Rome, Italy, and five visits from a CIA server located in McLean, VA (subsequent research showed that the visitor was an employee of a CIA contractor, and not an employee of the CIA itself.)

Edited March 23, 2008 by Vinny & Sue Team

[Mr.Yuck]

Personally I find the audit logs a bit too much like big brother for my tastes.

 

I would agree, being a person who pretty recently received an email from someone asking me why I looked at their cache page!! I was just surfing Geocaching Google maps, and didn't even know I clicked on an MOC. Being from another part of the country, the cache owner obviously investigated my profile, and clicked all around my hides and finds to see where I was from.

 

I thought this was totally bizarre, emailing a stranger on the internet (whom you just investigated), and asking them why they looked at your web page. Maybe it's just me though. I will say that cache owner is lucky I decided to delete the email and never respond. Because believe me, they wouldn't have wanted to hear my response.

How bizarre that you received that letter from the PM cache owner! Weird! Could they perhaps have been hoping that you, as an out-of-state cacher, might shortly be seeking their cache? If so, it sounds like they did not explain their intent while sending the email very well! BTW, if you can remember which cache page visit it was that caused that letter to be generated, please let me know -- I would love to visit that cache listing page myself!

 

And, ummmm... White Urkel, the audit logs for several of our Psycho Urban Caches show that you have visited them, and therefore, as "retaliation"...

 

...if you wish to contact me via PM or private email (to be found on our profile page) and send some shipping address info, I will be happy to send you a free Psycho Urban Cache refrigerator magnet via postal mail!

 

What, you don't know my real name and shipping address already?

 

 

Just for the record, we own a large number of PMO caches (primarily caches in the Psycho Urban Cache and Psycho Backcountry Caches series) which happen to be very popular, a good number have 30 or more watchlisters, and some have over 100, and many of these caches appear on many public bookmark lists, and the audit logs show that the cache listing pages are often visited by dozens (on some days, hundreds...) of visitors per day from all over the planet. I thoroughly enjoy reading the audit logs to see who visited, and I am merely happy about the large number of visitors; I would never think (as did your respondent) of writing a visitor to ask them WHY they visited our cache listing page! Of course, then again, if I were to visit my audit log fro one of my really extreme 5/5 caches and notice that Lara Croft had just visited the page, well, I just might send her a PM offering to be her personal tour guide on her attempt to tackle the cache!

 

This sounds like a perfectly logical explanation as to why some people may enjoy reading audit logs. And yes, years ago, I myself once had a totally non-geocaching related website, and had one of those third party trackers that would tell me IP address, ISP, generally the City and State (or city and country) of the visitor, how long they were on the website, etc..., and I enjoyed reading that. But I've always been a complete stats geek (mostly sports) since I was about 5 years old.

 

I wasn't trying to imply that everyone who likes audit logs is a stalker with their sole objective being to observe people's web surfing habits. But that email definitely rubbed me the wrong way.

 

Just my opinion (could just be me) that the few people calling for expanding audit logs for Premium members to include their non-MOC's will have their pleas fall on deaf ears. It just seems way down the list of things that matter.

[Mr.Yuck]

Double post. Nothing to see here.

Edited March 23, 2008 by TheWhiteUrkel