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Gas prices killing the hobby?


K0BKL

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I am wondering how much effect gas prices are having on the hobby?

Cold weather has kept me inside for months, but high gas prices may

stop me from resuming the hobby.

I gave up my last 7 caches to other cachers, to relieve me of the

work and mileage to maintain them, now I am wondering if I will ever

get out there very much to find new ones?

There are a bunch close to me, that I will probaly try to find,

but further away, probaly never.

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We have a new term in our house. We call it cluster-caching. We map out our trip for the day so we can drive to one area and cache with as little driving as possible once in the area. No lone stragglers for us, we go for the cache rich areas in NoVA...for now. Once we clean those out I am sure the stragglers will need to get picked up too but that's down the road a while.

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I am wondering how much effect gas prices are having on the hobby?

Cold weather has kept me inside for months, but high gas prices may

stop me from resuming the hobby.

I gave up my last 7 caches to other cachers, to relieve me of the

work and mileage to maintain them, now I am wondering if I will ever

get out there very much to find new ones?

There are a bunch close to me, that I will probaly try to find,

but further away, probaly never.

It will probably start to make me stop and think when gas hits $4.00/gal in 2008. When it hits $7 or $8 per gallon it might really make an impact on my caching.

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it's not really affecting me at all. over the past 3 years I have become more efficient anyway, planning better, using directroute, looking for other caches in an area where there is a new one. This is really my only hobby that costs money. Even with the gas prices it's cheaper than the things a lot of people do.

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My favorite caching is in places I travel to so am there anyway. The new "routes" function will be a great help.

 

I do some local and have just purchased a handlebar bracket for the GPS. That way I can use it on my motorcycle or bicycle.

Edited by TNeer
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I have a diesel VW so I can fill up and travel for a long long distance. Then I run on the fuel for the rest of the week back and forth to work.

 

This is what I figure I my cost is for a hobby I come out cheaper then with other hobbys I have had.

 

But if you plan your caches you can do a lot in one area and not use much gas. ;)

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...I gave up my last 7 caches to other cachers, to relieve me of the

work and mileage to maintain them, now I am wondering if I will ever

get out there very much to find new ones?...

 

In WWII people had cheap gas but were on rations. This created forced conservation. People took public transit to work and saved their gas for recreation.

 

Europe has already adapted to high gas prices. We will as well. It's all a matter of your priorties. I have no problem taking a bus to work and driving the SUV on weekends for fun. If only I could find a bus system that does a good job with transit...

Edited by Renegade Knight
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I pay roughly $7.50 a gallon here in Sweden.

 

Wanna trade? ;)

 

Naomi

 

Yeah, but you probably drive a fuel efficient car. We Americans insist on driving barges that get 10 MPG. It costs us $100 to fill the 40 gallon tank and ya have to fill it again on the way back from the store.

 

I have no problem with gas prices because I drive a Honda. Now if I was tooling around in a Chevy Suburban or Ford Excursion it would probably put a crimp on my caching.

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I drive a Ford F-150. NOT because I think it makes me cooler or more macho or whatever, but because I have a rotten back and I need a big seat that doesn't make me all crippled up. When I drive my wife's car for very long I end up in a lot of pain. When I ride in the passenger's seat it's even worse. Every time I've driven in or ridden in small, fuel efficient cars, I end up half crippled. What am I supposed to do? I get flack from the "green" folks for driving a full sized truck. Apparently my health doesn't concern them.

 

Gas prices have definitely slowed my caching habits. I am not planning to quit caching - I enjoy it far too much - but I plan my caching better now. If you think caching costs too much just take a look at golf or even bowling. Heck, take a look at what it costs folks to be a smoker! Even with the price of gas, caching is a bargain compared to many things.

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I pay roughly $7.50 a gallon here in Sweden.

 

Wanna trade? :)

 

Naomi

 

Yeah, but you probably drive a fuel efficient car. We Americans insist on driving barges that get 10 MPG. It costs us $100 to fill the 40 gallon tank and ya have to fill it again on the way back from the store.

 

I have no problem with gas prices because I drive a Honda. Now if I was tooling around in a Chevy Suburban or Ford Excursion it would probably put a crimp on my caching.

 

My car is a 1.8l Opel Zafira. I have a 15 gallon tank and can go about 350 to 400 miles per fill up depending on if I have the winter studded tires on or the summer regular one. I guess I average about 25mpg. It hurts in any language or currency to have to spend 100 bucks to fill up an average sized car ;)

 

Naomi :)

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I am wondering how much effect gas prices are having on the hobby? .... now I am wondering if I will ever get out there very much to find new ones? There are a bunch close to me, that I will probaly try to find, but further away, probaly never.

 

Gas prices have not effect on my caching. I have not decided to do any less caching due to the rising prices, but I don't have to go too far out yet to still find available caches.

 

An example:

Caching trip = 100 miles driving (I rarely to go this far in one trip)

Milage = 20 MPG

this means 5 gallons used (assuming no idling).

 

Last year $2.559 for a gallon costing $12.80 for the trip

 

I paid $3.279 for a gallon on Thursday costing $16.40 for the trip.

 

I hate paying more today than I did yesterday for something, but I look at it from another angle. I paid $16 for a day of fun. Going to an amusment park, ski pass or a concert ticket all cost way more than 16 bucks. Oh wait, you still have to drive to those events.

 

You could always car pool to caches or wait to do caches in one area at once.

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Every time I've driven in or ridden in small, fuel efficient cars, I end up half crippled. What am I supposed to do? I get flack from the "green" folks for driving a full sized truck. Apparently my health doesn't concern them.

 

That's you. Some people have good reasons for driving large vehicles. My brother has a big family. If he didn't have a Ford Excursion he'd have to take two cars whenever the family went out (which is what I recall my parents doing when we went on vacation) and that wouldn't save anything.

 

But when I'm driving to work I see huge truck after huge truck. F150's, Suburbans, H2s, Durangos, Yukons, etc., all with a single driver. I doubt they all have bad backs.

 

P.S. My wife has a bad back and had problems with every car or SUV until she got her Subaru Outback, so the car doesn't necessarily have to be big. You just need a good seat.

Edited by briansnat
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You know, it occurs to me that driving everywhere wasn't always an "American thing to do" and really hasn't been the trend for all that long (Probably this same story plays out world wide)-- Those of you who are old enough to recall the "Dick and Jane" readers might know the worldview I am talking about. Remember when the Dad in the books came home? When he came home, the kids saw him walk past the nice white picket fence and turn into the yard ---walking from the bus stop or the car pool stop.

 

In the 40s, 50s and early 60s IF the family had a car (some didn't!!!), they usually had only one car, and it stayed home most of the time. Dad walked to work nearby or if he worked farther way, he rode to work with someone else, or took the bus, or maybe if they lived waaaay out someone drove him to the train station. Mom might use the car for a major shoping trip, but she usually walked to the nearby store with a cart or a wagon to carry the groceries home. The family used the car for "day trips" and sometimes to go to church and then out to eat on Sunday.

 

In the 1950s, the US underwent an interesting change: Small towns began disappearing and suburbs began to appear on the outskirts of large cities. Grocery stores became larger and farther apart. In the late 1940s the number of drive-in movie theaters rose from 102 to over 800. The baby boomers were making things blossom everywhere!

 

Still, people didn't eat in their cars, there weren't all the drive-through fast food places until the early 60s. Although there have always been public places to buy food already prepared (inns or stands etc, even back to ancient Greece and Rome). It wasn't until the early 1900s that the idea of a fast-food restaraunt became popular ---later the notion of being able to drive to those places took hold and we had things like root beer stands---but the idea of "driving through a lane to pick up food to take away" didn't really catch on until the 1960 in most parts of the US.

 

The two-lane highways that crossed the US weren't completed until the late 1940s and roads were not really designed for traveling from one part of the country to another until after the Federal-Aid Highway Act of 1956. While my grandparents did take a trip to my grandmothers birthplace once or twice a year, it took them most of the day to get there, and they stayed a few days when they went. Today that trip is an hour drive for me. Taking a road trip was truely an adventerous undertaking. My aunt and uncle took the grandparents on a trip of a lifetime to see the old west in the early 60s, and the rest of the family thought them very bold. My parents moved back and forth between Indiana and Florida several times, and the family thought they were regular vagabonds. The earlier roads were inter-regional in concept--There was no I-65 that crossed the country north to south (there was "the dixie highway") and the old route 66 is an example of a major way across the country east-west.

 

About the same time drive-through foods became popular, the notion that families might need multiple cars took hold, too. Now Dad needed to be able to drive to work without the carpool and Mom needed her own vehicle to go to the grocery (which was no longer in walking distance) and in more affluent families, the teens were also being allowed to possess their own cars. Car began being designed and marketed as "affordable" and families gradually acccepted the notion of having several cars.

 

I grew up just a bit on the late side of all that. I can remember when "most" families didn't feel the need for more than one or maybe two cars; teens expected to borrow the "family car" (i.e. "Mom's car" or "the station wagon") when they needed a car. The only kids in our small town who had their own cars were the sons and daughters of doctors and lawyers and perhaps mechanics--and even then they were usually a senior in high school preparing to go off to college (where they would "need" the car) and they usually got the "old" car when Mom got her new model. A few wilder kids did the hot rod thing.

 

It wasn't until about the late 60s early 70s that most teens got their own cars as a matter of course. Volkswagons were popular and other "economical" models. But then, my generation was also the last to think it was ridiculous to wear designer clothes (Who would want to advertise to everyone how much extra you paid for a shirt just because it had someone else's name on it!?!). We also threw our trash in the container (Keep America Clean) and turned off the lights when we didn't need them. We rode with friends when we could to save on costs. The country was in trouble as far a needing to conserve fuel and energy, and gasoline had gone up to 25 cents a gallon by the time I got my driver's license.

 

I've been incredulous when gas rose to $1.00 a gallon; more so when it hit $2.00. I was outraged when my friend told me two years ago that there were people who wanted to see gas go over $3.00/gal and stay there! I'll probably feel the same way at each new interval. I doubt my grandparents predicted the world would work the way it does back when they began their families in the 1920s; I am positive my great-great grandparents (mostly farm families in small towns) could not have imagined a world like the one in which we live.

 

..there will no doubt be additional changes in the way we plan out communities, build our automobiles, and use our resources that I could not even imagine now...

 

...but I'll keep caching. Dollar for dollar, even with the cost of gasoline, it is cheaper than most other hobbies I have ever tried. I've always planned day-trips to clusters of caches, so I'll just appreciate the $ savings as gas prices go up.

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It just made me change my notifications to 10 miles from home instead of 20 miles from home. Recently I've missed several that were 10.2 and 10.4 from home so I changed it to 12 miles from home.

 

I have a Chevy Avalanche (14mpg) that is necessary for my work (haul motorcycles), but some of my gas is deductible....

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.....there will no doubt be additional changes in the way we plan out communities, build our automobiles, and use our resources that I could not even imagine now....

 

Planners know the changes we need to make. However developers are the only way anything on a planning document gets done. Towns are horrible at enforcing planning documents. Developers suck at factoring in the costs to society of sprawl. Sprawl is not sustainable but has been viable.

 

Something will change. Probably by a developer who figures out the exact moment when sprawl stopped being viable.

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It didn't stop me when gas hit $3 a gallon, it won't stop me when gas hits $4 a gallon. I might combine a few things with the trips, i.e. throw in a trip to the store on the way back. I'll team up with a geobuddy for longer trips and split the gas cost. Nothing different than what I'm already doing, though.

 

Inflation is a normal part of life. Its like taxes. Its always there. Sometimes its higher than other years.

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I pay roughly $7.50 a gallon here in Sweden.

 

Wanna trade? ;)

 

Naomi

 

Yeah, but you probably drive a fuel efficient car. We Americans insist on driving barges that get 10 MPG. It costs us $100 to fill the 40 gallon tank and ya have to fill it again on the way back from the store.

 

I have no problem with gas prices because I drive a Honda. Now if I was tooling around in a Chevy Suburban or Ford Excursion it would probably put a crimp on my caching.

 

My car is a 1.8l Opel Zafira. I have a 15 gallon tank and can go about 350 to 400 miles per fill up depending on if I have the winter studded tires on or the summer regular one. I guess I average about 25mpg. It hurts in any language or currency to have to spend 100 bucks to fill up an average sized car :)

 

Naomi :)

I realize $7.50 a gallon is $7.50 a gallon no matter how you figure it, but isn't the biggest share of the cost of a gallon of gas in the countries in your part of the world taxes? Just curious.

Edited by DWBur
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You know, it occurs to me that driving everywhere wasn't always an "American thing to do" and really hasn't been the trend for all that long (Probably this same story plays out world wide)-- Those of you who are old enough to recall the "Dick and Jane" readers might know the worldview I am talking about. Remember when the Dad in the books came home? When he came home, the kids saw him walk past the nice white picket fence and turn into the yard ---walking from the bus stop or the car pool stop.

 

In the 40s, 50s and early 60s IF the family had a car (some didn't!!!), they usually had only one car, and it stayed home most of the time. Dad walked to work nearby or if he worked farther way, he rode to work with someone else, or took the bus, or maybe if they lived waaaay out someone drove him to the train station. Mom might use the car for a major shoping trip, but she usually walked to the nearby store with a cart or a wagon to carry the groceries home. The family used the car for "day trips" and sometimes to go to church and then out to eat on Sunday.

 

In the 1950s, the US underwent an interesting change: Small towns began disappearing and suburbs began to appear on the outskirts of large cities. Grocery stores became larger and farther apart. In the late 1940s the number of drive-in movie theaters rose from 102 to over 800. The baby boomers were making things blossom everywhere!

 

Still, people didn't eat in their cars, there weren't all the drive-through fast food places until the early 60s. Although there have always been public places to buy food already prepared (inns or stands etc, even back to ancient Greece and Rome). It wasn't until the early 1900s that the idea of a fast-food restaraunt became popular ---later the notion of being able to drive to those places took hold and we had things like root beer stands---but the idea of "driving through a lane to pick up food to take away" didn't really catch on until the 1960 in most parts of the US.

 

The two-lane highways that crossed the US weren't completed until the late 1940s and roads were not really designed for traveling from one part of the country to another until after the Federal-Aid Highway Act of 1956. While my grandparents did take a trip to my grandmothers birthplace once or twice a year, it took them most of the day to get there, and they stayed a few days when they went. Today that trip is an hour drive for me. Taking a road trip was truely an adventerous undertaking. My aunt and uncle took the grandparents on a trip of a lifetime to see the old west in the early 60s, and the rest of the family thought them very bold. My parents moved back and forth between Indiana and Florida several times, and the family thought they were regular vagabonds. The earlier roads were inter-regional in concept--There was no I-65 that crossed the country north to south (there was "the dixie highway") and the old route 66 is an example of a major way across the country east-west.

 

About the same time drive-through foods became popular, the notion that families might need multiple cars took hold, too. Now Dad needed to be able to drive to work without the carpool and Mom needed her own vehicle to go to the grocery (which was no longer in walking distance) and in more affluent families, the teens were also being allowed to possess their own cars. Car began being designed and marketed as "affordable" and families gradually acccepted the notion of having several cars.

 

I grew up just a bit on the late side of all that. I can remember when "most" families didn't feel the need for more than one or maybe two cars; teens expected to borrow the "family car" (i.e. "Mom's car" or "the station wagon") when they needed a car. The only kids in our small town who had their own cars were the sons and daughters of doctors and lawyers and perhaps mechanics--and even then they were usually a senior in high school preparing to go off to college (where they would "need" the car) and they usually got the "old" car when Mom got her new model. A few wilder kids did the hot rod thing.

 

It wasn't until about the late 60s early 70s that most teens got their own cars as a matter of course. Volkswagons were popular and other "economical" models. But then, my generation was also the last to think it was ridiculous to wear designer clothes (Who would want to advertise to everyone how much extra you paid for a shirt just because it had someone else's name on it!?!). We also threw our trash in the container (Keep America Clean) and turned off the lights when we didn't need them. We rode with friends when we could to save on costs. The country was in trouble as far a needing to conserve fuel and energy, and gasoline had gone up to 25 cents a gallon by the time I got my driver's license.

 

I've been incredulous when gas rose to $1.00 a gallon; more so when it hit $2.00. I was outraged when my friend told me two years ago that there were people who wanted to see gas go over $3.00/gal and stay there! I'll probably feel the same way at each new interval. I doubt my grandparents predicted the world would work the way it does back when they began their families in the 1920s; I am positive my great-great grandparents (mostly farm families in small towns) could not have imagined a world like the one in which we live.

 

..there will no doubt be additional changes in the way we plan out communities, build our automobiles, and use our resources that I could not even imagine now...

 

...but I'll keep caching. Dollar for dollar, even with the cost of gasoline, it is cheaper than most other hobbies I have ever tried. I've always planned day-trips to clusters of caches, so I'll just appreciate the $ savings as gas prices go up.

 

When I was a kid, a TV commercial used to avocate " SEE THE U S A ... IN YOUR CHEV RO LET ....."

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGZvQoPxhNs

Edited by michigansnorkeler
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Gas prices were worse in the late 70s relative to the cost of living. Gas rose from $0.30/gallon in 1970 to $1.40 in 1977. We were paying $1.40/gallon 30 years ago! I also remember what a pain it was to get gas during the height of the gas crisis. You had to wait in a super long line on either odd or even days depending on your license plate number and then you could only put 10 gallons in your tank. My big boat Mercury only got 12 miles/gallon so I had to get back in line every 4 days. So if you are feeling bad about gas prices, then just remember that we've made it through worse times. ;)

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Sure, gas is getting more expensive. But let's put it in perspective.

 

I get 20 mpg overall in my 98 Plymouth Grand Voyager van.

 

Let's say I drive 20,000 miles geocaching per year... that's 1000 gallons.

 

At $2 per gallon, that was $2000 .... At $3 per gallon its $3000.

 

That's only an additional $1000 for 20,000 miles of geocaching.

 

True, I don't drive anywhere near 20,000 miles soley for geocaching, do you? Let's say you drive only an additional 5,000 miles per year geocaching. That would only be an additional $250 per year compared to the $2 per gallon days. That's an additional $5 per week. That's not so much for a sport or hobby. If you ski or golf, you know what I mean.

 

Anyway, driving gives me freedom, and this freedom is a uniquely American thing. I'll sacrifice other nonessentials, if necessary, for this freedom.

 

I also use gift cards. For example, Marathon sells $100 gift cards for $96. If you do the math, that's 4cents off per dollar, or about 12 cents off per gallon of gas! So when I filled up today at $2.99 per gallon, it was really $2.87 for me.

 

BTW. I DO drive over 20,000 miles per year just to work and back. Overall, I put about 30,000 miles on the van per year. I bought it new in 1998 and have 276,000 miles on it so far. Best "car" I ever owned.

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I saw something interesting a while back about the costs of gas. They compared it to the price of soft drinks, milk, and other things we drink. It was surprizing to see the cost of bottled water compaired to the price of gas. I wish I could find that artical. Gas was I think around 2.50 a gal. then and to get a gallon of bottle water was like 4 something a gal.

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I am wondering how much effect gas prices are having on the hobby? .... now I am wondering if I will ever get out there very much to find new ones? There are a bunch close to me, that I will probaly try to find, but further away, probaly never.

 

Gas prices have not effect on my caching. I have not decided to do any less caching due to the rising prices, but I don't have to go too far out yet to still find available caches.

 

An example:

Caching trip = 100 miles driving (I rarely to go this far in one trip)

Milage = 20 MPG

this means 5 gallons used (assuming no idling).

 

Last year $2.559 for a gallon costing $12.80 for the trip

 

I paid $3.279 for a gallon on Thursday costing $16.40 for the trip.

 

I hate paying more today than I did yesterday for something, but I look at it from another angle. I paid $16 for a day of fun. Going to an amusment park, ski pass or a concert ticket all cost way more than 16 bucks. Oh wait, you still have to drive to those events.

 

You could always car pool to caches or wait to do caches in one area at once.

 

I agree with your philosophy. You spend $3.60 more for your 100 mile trip now than you did last year.

 

When my wife, son and I go bowling it costs about $40 for an hour and we are lucky to get three games in. I don't expect to be changing my caching behavior any time soon based on the price of gas. The fun to cost quotient is way too high.

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I have taken a geocaching trip thru Michigan's Upper Peninnsula every year since 2003. Round trip is 3000-3500 miles. My Jeep gets around 15-17mpg. I already have plans for this year's trip.

 

I haven't cached around home as much over the past couple of years. But I think that is because my favorite caches are up North. Away from the cities. I've become spoiled. I cache more when I head North to visit mom on the NE side of the state...or bio-dad on the NW side of the state.

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I saw something interesting a while back about the costs of gas. They compared it to the price of soft drinks, milk, and other things we drink. It was surprizing to see the cost of bottled water compaired to the price of gas. I wish I could find that artical. Gas was I think around 2.50 a gal. then and to get a gallon of bottle water was like 4 something a gal.
It's amazing what people pay for bottled water and it's no cleaner than tap water. :rolleyes:
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I wish our fuel prices in the UK were as cheap as yours in the US !

 

Our fuel is 107.9 per litre at the moment and still set to rise this converts to about $2.14 per litre.

 

There are 3.7 litres in a gallon, so we pay about the equivalent to $7.91 per gallon !!!!

Ouch! How much of that are taxes?
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I wish our fuel prices in the UK were as cheap as yours in the US !

 

Our fuel is 107.9 per litre at the moment and still set to rise this converts to about $2.14 per litre.

 

There are 3.7 litres in a gallon, so we pay about the equivalent to $7.91 per gallon !!!!

Ouch! How much of that are taxes?

The difference between our prices and yours ARE the taxes....... we produce a fair amount of oil ourselves, so production and distribution costs are roughly equal.

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We have a Chevy Suburban that we use when we need to haul anything or when we go caching in an area with just dirt/rough roads. It also carries our mobility aids. For most of our regular everyday driving, though, we have a Hyundai Accent that gets phenomenal gas mileage :rolleyes: . So, no, gas prices have not really affected our caching or any other driving. We live out in the middle of nowhere so we HAVE to drive a lot.

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Granted, a lot is for taxes, and we actually get something for ours since.. well, I'm not gonna take the thread off topic here, lol, but like you said, it doesn't matter if it's taxes or not, 7 to 8 bucks a gallon plain, old fashioned hurts! Especially since our gas prices here are rising as yours are and our incomes aren't.

 

It may be a fair bit of taxes, but the rising cost is tied in to the rising cost per barrel and the weak dollar that has inflated the price since the dollar isn't worth what it used to be. If the dollar would strengthen, the oil cost per barrel would drop, thus the cost of it would drop and we'd all be smiling bigger <_<. Unfortunately, unless something major happens I don't see the dollar getting stronger any time soon :rolleyes:.

 

Naomi

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Pretty much.

 

In Europe, prices are going sky high. We have a Land Rover that takes Diesel. Diesel is a bit more inexpensive than regular gas.

 

At the moment, a liter of diesel is €1.2 (approx. $1.83). Gas costs €1.45 (approx. $2.20).

 

Which means that a gallon of diesel is $6.95. Our Land Rover consumes 3gallons per 65miles.

 

Hell. Now that i finally made the calculations I can see how it is really affecting us. :rolleyes:

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Hell. Now that i finally made the calculations I can see how it is really affecting us. :rolleyes:

 

I know. I'm American living in Sweden and I stopped thinking in US dollars a long time ago since it's really counter-productive... but when I convert gas prices it gives me a minor heart attack to see what I pay when I remember when 20 bucks would fill my tank!

 

Naomi <_<

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No matter how much anyone tries to justify the price of gas it still boils down to the fact we're getting ripped off by the Arabs and the oil companys

 

I disagree.

 

The US dollar is the currency that oil is traded in. Unfortunately, the dollar has lost it's spending power and is extremely weak right now. That weakness is driving the cost of the oil up, because quite simply, 1 dollar doesn't buy what it used to or did even 2 years ago.

 

I think that it's a lot easier to see if you live in another country. Even better if you're American living in a foreign country.

 

As I said earlier, I don't convert Swedish costs to American money because it's very counter-productive for me. My mother came to visit over the summer and she converted costs and was shocked by the American equivalent cost of things over here. Had she come 5 years ago when the dollar was strong and trading at almost 11SEK to 1 dollar, then she would have thought it was cheaper here, but over the summer it was trading at 6.4SEK to a dollar and that made everything seem very expensive.

 

Living here I now understand better how a weak dollar effects the world's economy, and how because of that weakness, more and more countries are switching to the stronger Euro as their currency of choice.

 

Now, I DO think that the oil companies are sticking us ALL a good one, their profit reports are proof of that, but I refuse to blame the people of the Middle East for the weak dollar that the US president in his efforts of "war," and lousy economic foreign policy shoulders the main blame for.

 

This is one scrap that the US has pretty much done to itself, unfortunately, and I AM American.

 

Anyway, back to the topic at hand.

 

If the dollar was stronger, the price of oil per barrel would drop rapidly. I'm not sure what it will take for the dollar to strengthen right now. I just wish it would, and that it would do it quickly or that OPEC would switch to Euro. At least then the vast majority of those suffering the high gas prices would be those with the weaker currency... sorry ya'll!

 

Naomi

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No matter how much anyone tries to justify the price of gas it still boils down to the fact we're getting ripped off by the Arabs and the oil companys
I disagree.

 

The US dollar is the currency that oil is traded in. ...

The weakness of the dollar causes oil to be more expensive in the US, but not necessarily for the rest of the world. This is because the other countries are not buying dollars and sticking them in a box to buy oil next year. They are converting to the dollar nearly at the moment of purchase. Therefore, the relative weakness of the dollar actually allows them to purchase more oil, not less, for the same amount of their local currency.

 

While I hate the way DWBur worded his post, he's correct. The oil producing countries could easily pump more oil and cause the prices to drop. They have little incentive to do that, however. Also, the way that the oil companies set their prices guarantees an ever increasing profit as oil prices go up. If they priced to allow a constant profit in dollars, rather than a percentage profit, it would amount to somewhat lower pump prices.

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No matter how much anyone tries to justify the price of gas it still boils down to the fact we're getting ripped off by the Arabs and the oil companys
I disagree.

 

The US dollar is the currency that oil is traded in. ...

The weakness of the dollar causes oil to be more expensive in the US, but not necessarily for the rest of the world. This is because the other countries are not buying dollars and sticking them in a box to buy oil next year. They are converting to the dollar nearly at the moment of purchase. Therefore, the relative weakness of the dollar actually allows them to purchase more oil, not less, for the same amount of their local currency.

 

While I hate the way DWBur worded his post, he's correct. The oil producing countries could easily pump more oil and cause the prices to drop. They have little incentive to do that, however. Also, the way that the oil companies set their prices guarantees an ever increasing profit as oil prices go up. If they priced to allow a constant profit in dollars, rather than a percentage profit, it would amount to somewhat lower pump prices.

 

The oil producing countries have nothing to do with supply output, OPEC does.

 

Oil Prices Hit All-Time High

Crude Skyrockets After OPEC Decides Not to Increase Supply; U.S. Reserves Low

By WILLIAM J. KOLE

Associated Press Writer

 

March 5, 2008—

 

VIENNA, Austria (AP) -- OPEC on Wednesday accused the U.S. of economic "mismanagement" that it said is pushing oil prices to record highs, rebuffing calls to boost output and laying blame at the feet of the Bush administration.

 

Oil prices surged past $104 a barrel for the first time after the OPEC announcement and the release of a U.S. government report showing a surprise drop in crude oil stockpiles.

 

The 13-nation Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries said it would maintain current production levels because crude supplies are plentiful and demand is expected to weaken in the second quarter.

 

OPEC President Chakib Khelil told reporters the global market is being affected by what he called "the mismanagement of the U.S. economy," and that America's problems were a key factor in the cartel's decision to hold off on any action.

 

"If the prices are high, definitely they are not due to a lack of crude. They are due to what's happening in the U.S.," Khelil said. "There is sufficient supply. There's plenty of oil there."

 

Khelil's comments came one day after U.S. President George W. Bush lashed out at the organization, warning Tuesday: "I think it's a mistake to have your biggest customers' economies slowing down as a result of higher energy prices."

 

White House spokesman Dana Perino said Wednesday that Bush was "disappointed" OPEC didn't do more to rein in prices, which some say are pushing the U.S. economy into recession.

 

Although OPEC opted not to intervene, it did pledge to maintain "constant vigilance" over the market.

 

Khelil said he and OPEC's secretary-general were authorized to call an extraordinary meeting or hold phone consultations "at any time, depending on the pressures on the market" -- an apparent gesture to ease global economic jitters.

 

There had been some speculation that OPEC might actually cut production, but Khelil said that was not discussed at Wednesday's meeting. He said OPEC had no plans to meet again before its next scheduled conference in September.

 

Khelil said crude stocks were well within their five-year average and the 13-nation group was not inclined to either boost or reduce its current output of about 32 million barrels a day. OPEC satisfies roughly 40 percent of the world's demand for crude.

 

OPEC said it "highlighted the economic slowdown in the U.S., which, together with the deepening credit crisis in financial markets, is increasing the downside risks for world economic growth and consequently demand for crude oil."

 

"Crude oil prices are being strongly influenced by the weakness in the U.S. dollar, rising inflation and significant flow of funds into the commodities market," it said.

 

The dollar sank to record lows Wednesday, with the euro fetching $1.53 for the first time ever in Europe.

 

Oil shot up a dramatic 19 percent last month as the falling dollar prompted speculators and other investors to shift cash to crude and other commodities as a hedge. Oil prices have also been supported by tensions in the Middle East and Turkey's incursion into northern Iraq.

 

Key cartel members said this week that prices in the $85 to $90 per barrel range would be optimal.

 

But oil's only direction Wednesday was up.

 

Light, sweet crude for April delivery rose $2.02 to $101.54 a barrel in electronic trading on the New York Mercantile Exchange by the afternoon in Europe -- amid growing expectations that it stood to climb even higher.

 

"There's an ongoing stampede to be a part of the crude oil rally," said Tim Evans, an analyst at Citigroup Inc., in New York.

 

"The market listens to what they say. So when they do nothing, in the short-term there are still fears," said John Hall, of John Hall Associates in London.

 

"By helping the price to rise, they have fueled inflation and they're fueling recession," he said.

 

But Stephen Schork, editor of The Schork Report, which keeps tabs on global energy markets and trends, said the cartel may not have had much choice.

 

"If you're OPEC, you see ample supplies and questionable demand," he said.

 

Schork gave OPEC credit for not pushing through a cut in output, which "would legitimize the bullish speculation we've seen since February" and risk sending oil to $120 a barrel or higher.

 

Crude inventories are growing, including "a massive increase" in U.S. stocks, Schork said.

 

"It's certainly a comfortable supply situation," he said.

 

The 13 OPEC members are Algeria, Angola, Ecuador, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Libya, Nigeria, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates and Venezuela. Iraq is the only member not subject to the cartel's output quotas.

 

Copyright © 2008 ABC News Internet Ventures

 

and here is another article on how/why the waek dollar is affecting/effecting the world markets the way it is:

 

Why Is the Dollar Losing Value?

A Closer Look at the Dollar and the Euro, and What the Dollar's Drop Means for You

By CHARLES HERMAN

ABC NEWS Business Unit

 

Feb. 27, 2008 —

 

Dreams of vacationing in Europe just got a lot more expensive, with the dollar falling to new lows against the euro and the British pound Wednesday after a series of negative economic reports from the United States. At one point during trading, it cost just more than $1.50 to buy one euro and nearly $2 to buy a one pound. That means an American in Paris will spend a lot more to buy a flaky croissant.

 

So why is the dollar plunging, and what impact does that plunge have on U.S. and world markets? Here's a look at some of the reasons for the dollar's fall, and the consequences.

 

Why the Weak Dollar?

 

There are several reasons. First, there's the difference between the interest rate in the United States -- currently 3 percent -- and interest rates maintained by central banks around the world.

 

How Is the Economy Treating You? Tell ABC News

 

While the United States has dropped its rate, other banks have not followed. The spread between the interest rate at the European Central Bank (home of the euro) and the Federal Reserve (home of the dollar) is larger and that has weakened the value of the dollar against the euro. Put another way, you would get a better interest rate return holding a euro than a dollar.

 

Second, central banks around the world have been diversifying their holdings away from dollars to euros, British pounds and so on. That means there are more dollars out there in currency markets available to purchase. More dollars floating around means diminished value.

What Effect Does This Have?

 

Look at the record-high price of oil. Even if the same amount of oil is being pumped out of the ground, since it is traded in dollars and the dollar has weakened, the price of oil has increased to make up for the lost value of the dollar, creating a sort of vicious cycle.

 

Oil-producing countries don't want to keep all the dollars they are getting for their oil, since it's worth less, so they are diversifying and converting their dollars into euros or other currencies. That pushes more dollars back out into currency markets, which in turn pushes down the dollar's value.

 

One analyst told ABC News that Russia used to have 90 percent of its financial reserves in dollars. It now has 45 percent in dollars, 45 percent in euros and 10 percent in British pounds.

 

What Does This Mean in the U.S.?

 

The news is mixed. It's good, because it makes what we produce here cheaper to sell in foreign markets, and that in turn spurs exports of our products around the world. That translates into more manufacturing and more jobs. For example, BMW and Mercedes Benz want to build cars in the United States, because they can do it cheaper in nonunion states than in Germany, where they'd pay labor and parts in euros, and then bring the cars to the United States, where they would be too expensive to sell at a profit.

 

But a weak dollar is bad, because it leads to inflation in this country. Imports from foreign countries will become more expensive, and in particular, oil will be more expensive. That puts pressure on businesses to increase prices for anything that uses oil or products that come from overseas. One benefit for American shoppers is that China has largely pegged its currency to ours, so that keeps the price of Chinese-made goods low and, therefore, keeps a check on inflation.

 

U.S. Treasuries, Bonds, Mortgages, Stocks

 

What does a weak dollar mean for all that, and why should I care? If the dollar falls too much, foreign investors and banks won't be so interested in buying T-bills and bonds that keep the U.S. government and businesses humming. That's because the interest rate might not be enough to compensate for inflation. In other words, whatever is earned would be worth less money.

 

To attract buyers, the T-bills and bonds will sell for less and have higher interest rates. And since many mortgages are tied to these interest rates, that might mean mortgage rates won't drop anytime soon. Also, a weak dollar might scare away foreign investors who don't want to own stock in U.S. companies.

 

What About Foreign Investors?

 

Could there be a wholesale dumping of U.S. dollars by foreign governments and investors? Maybe. But that would be executing a sort of "nuclear option."

 

If China were to dump its reserves of dollars into currency markets, that would dramatically lower the value of the dollar. All those bonds and T-bills that the country holds would drop in value, as inflation would erase any gains from the investment. China would be less able to sell its goods to the United States because the dollar would be too weak, and Chinese products would be more expensive.

 

If Saudi Arabia were to call for oil to be traded in euros, "that announcement would be the end of the U.S. dollar," said Ashraf Laidi, chief currency analyst at CMC Markets. But he said that would never happen as long as the United States and Saudi Arabia are allies, and the U.S. continues to negotiate arms and other deals with the world's largest oil producer.

 

Copyright © 2008 ABC News Internet Ventures

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Maybe it will help caching. If people become more selective in the caches they chose to do, walk more, and drive less; maybe some of the lame geotrash will go unnoticed and eventually go away.

 

We can only wish.

 

I fear that the opposite will happen.

 

You often have to drive a distance to a park, and in most area mass transit doesn't stop at state and county parks, but makes frequent visits to down-towns and wally worlds.

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The oil producing countries have nothing to do with supply output, OPEC does.
Perhaps you are defining 'oil producing country' differently than I did.

 

(I realize that there are non-OPEC countries that produce oil. Of course, if those countries put more oil into the market, prices would drop. Therefore, I guess I'll stick by my original post.)

Edited by sbell111
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Maybe it will help caching. If people become more selective in the caches they chose to do, walk more, and drive less; maybe some of the lame geotrash will go unnoticed and eventually go away.

 

We can only wish.

 

I fear that the opposite will happen.

 

You often have to drive a distance to a park, and in most area mass transit doesn't stop at state and county parks, but makes frequent visits to down-towns and wally worlds.

 

 

I don't have the option of doing caches within walking distance. I already did all of the caches in my town......

Edited by Thrak
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Maybe it will help caching. If people become more selective in the caches they chose to do, walk more, and drive less; maybe some of the lame geotrash will go unnoticed and eventually go away.
I don't have great public transit in my town, but I on occasion cache in big sities that do. It occurs to me that many of the caches near the bus/train stops are the ones that people complain about in the forums. Also, it's my understanding that these modes of transport typically don't take a person out to the rural forests where people like to hike.

 

I wonder if rising gas prices could actually result in fewer caches that you enjoy, not more. After all, as gas prices rise, many cachers will be more thankful for those few caches that are near where the cacher has to be anyway, whether that is there workplace, or the grocery store, or WalMart, etc.

Edited by sbell111
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Maybe it will help caching. If people become more selective in the caches they chose to do, walk more, and drive less; maybe some of the lame geotrash will go unnoticed and eventually go away.
I don't have great public transit in my town, but I on occasion cache in big sities that do. It occurs to me that many of the caches near the bus/train stops are the ones that people complain about in the forums. Also, it's my understanding that these modes of transport typically don't take a person out to the rural forests where people like to hike.

 

I wonder if rising gas prices could actually result in fewer caches that you enjoy, not more. After all, as gas prices rise, many cachers will be more thankful for those few caches that are near where the cacher has to be anyway, whether that is there workplace, or the grocery store, or WalMart, etc.

I was thinking the same thing. Many people are more likely to hide/find them in places that they are already going to on a regular basis.
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