DNF'S

[+joeluke]

i dont feel new but i have only over 100 finds and was wondering about logging DNF's when i first started i would log every dnf for each time i went looking for it and i have noticed in my area that there are a few people that would log a find and mention that they took 2 or 3 tries before they found it but never logged a dnf for their previous visits and at first on a particular cache i have 4 dnf's logged before i logged a find (dont ask lol) and after i noticed this trend i only log dnfs if there is one already logged or if i go to look for one that hasnt been found in a while and couldnt come up with it (not found in over 2 months). So what i'm asking is which is apporiate? Should i log all times i dnf or only when i think they need to be checked on? what do i do?

[Neos2]

Well, I can't tell you what to do, but here's what I do....(This question always gets a lot of debate).

 

I log a DNF every time I have potentially useful information to add to the logs on the cache.

 

If I go to a cache ...

 

...once and can't find it after a reasonable search

...once and can't look because someone is having a picnic two feet from where I think it is

...once and can't look because there are police arresting someone four feet away for sleeping in the area of the cache

...once and don't even get out of the car because my son calls and asks me for a ride home

...once and can't find it under two feet of snow

 

then I log 4 DNFs.

 

I don't log the time I left to go get me son, because that has nothing at all to do with the cache, the way it is hidden, or the way anyone else would need to plan for the hunt.

 

All my other logs may help the cache owner decide if it's time to check on the cache or add additional hints or warnings, or it may help other cachers decide to wait until the snow melts, or take special equipment with them, or even avoid the area entirely if it seems too urban for them.

[+BCandMsKitty]

I guess it depends on how you want to play the game. It really is just common sense, though. if you look for it and can't find it, then why not log a DNF?

I think it is a matter of pride for some people. They don't want to admit that they couldn't find it.

If you go to the area, and then decide to quit looking, then it really isn't a DNF, it is more of a Did Not Look I wouldn't log it. If there is some physical problem with the cache or the area for not continuing, then I would log a note to alert the owner of the problem.

Put yourself in the owner's shoes. I enjoy knowing there is activity at my cache, and a DNF log sometimes highlights a potential problem.

One of my caches was searched for 3 times by an individual who didn't log the DNFs. I was talking to her at a meet and greet and found out about her searches. I knew the cache was OK because it is just across the road from my home, and it wasn't a very hard one to find. After comparing notes we discovered that she was using an old cache sheet, printed out when I first hid the cache, and before I corrected faulty coordinates. (typo in my posting)

If she had logged her DNFs she might have saved herself a couple of trips, and some frustration!

Edited March 9, 2008 by BC & MsKitty

[+UncleJimbo]

i dont feel new but i have only over 100 finds and was wondering about logging DNF's when i first started i would log every dnf for each time i went looking for it and i have noticed in my area that there are a few people that would log a find and mention that they took 2 or 3 tries before they found it but never logged a dnf for their previous visits and at first on a particular cache i have 4 dnf's logged before i logged a find (dont ask lol) and after i noticed this trend i only log dnfs if there is one already logged or if i go to look for one that hasnt been found in a while and couldnt come up with it (not found in over 2 months). So what i'm asking is which is apporiate? Should i log all times i dnf or only when i think they need to be checked on? what do i do?

 

If you search the forums you will see several threads on this topic.

 

My personal opinion is, if you actually Search at GZ, and do not find, then log a DNF.

If you did not search (e.g., did not get out of your car, did not make it to GZ for whatever reason, etc.), then do not log a DNF, but perhaps log a Note.

 

Cheers

[+briansnat]

I think you had it right in the first place.

 

If I begin the search for a cache and come up empty, I log a DNF. There caches where I've logged as many as 6 DNFs. So as not to go overboard I won't log multiple DNFs in the same day. Ill treat them as the same search, but if I go back 2 days in a row I will log 2 DNFs.

 

My personal rule is that if I plug the cache into my GPS and hit GOTO, the search has begun. If I don't find the cache once the search has begun it's a DNF.

 

Got to ground zero and searched 15 minutes before a thunderstorm drove me away, DNF

Got to ground zero, looked in the probable hiding place and saw a sleeping bear, DNF

Got to ground zero and saw the cache high in a tree that I wasn't prepared to climb, DNF

Found my route to the cache blocked by a raging river and no way to cross, DNF

Drove around the area for an hour and couldn't find legal parking and/or legal access to the park anywhere, DNF

[+Miragee]

I log all my DNFs because I look at my online logs as a sort of "Geocaching Journal." Each visit to a cache is another story.

 

Although, I have to admit, if I'm not impressed by the location the cache brings me to, I'm unlikely to return to clear up that DNF.

[+emb021]

The guidelines others have stated for when they log DNFs is what I follow.

 

I'll add the following. Logging DNFs are good for two reasons:

 

* you now have a record of your attempts, and can more easily revisit the cache info before you try again.

* you attempts may help other people, including the owner. A cache with a lot of failures and no find is a good signal there's a problem. A good owner will check. If you are considering looking for a cache and there have been NO finds in quite a while, and maybe several failures, that's a warning that you may be wasting your time looking as well until someone DOES find it, or the owner verifies that everything is fine.

[+StarBrand]

If I decide to start the hunt and it ends without me finding the cache. I log a DNF. For each and every attempt.

[+hukilaulau]

I like your first method best. I don't always do it, but I wish I did.

[+RonFisk]

The guidelines others have stated for when they log DNFs is what I follow.

 

I'll add the following. Logging DNFs are good for two reasons:

 

* you now have a record of your attempts, and can more easily revisit the cache info before you try again.

* you attempts may help other people, including the owner. A cache with a lot of failures and no find is a good signal there's a problem. A good owner will check. If you are considering looking for a cache and there have been NO finds in quite a while, and maybe several failures, that's a warning that you may be wasting your time looking as well until someone DOES find it, or the owner verifies that everything is fine.

 

If it looks to me like it should be an easy find I will log my DNF and more than likely PM the cache owner and let them know what I found there. I really appreciate it when cachers log their DNF's as it gives me added information about the state of my hide. I'll frequently check and notify the cacher that's it's still there if it is and ask if they would like another clue. I have several hides that are 5's and I don't expect many finds, but I will help others to find them. A cache is useless if no-one can find them....

[Mag Magician]

If it looks to me like it should be an easy find I will log my DNF and more than likely PM the cache owner and let them know what I found there. I really appreciate it when cachers log their DNF's as it gives me added information about the state of my hide.

 

We did that, just this weekend. After the severe snow dumping that central Ontario got, we went caching just for the heckuvit. We logged a DNF on a potentially easy cache, and e-mailed the owner.

 

Lo and behold, along comes a newby the next day and logs a find!

As the cache owner e-mailed back, "Perhaps I should have increased the caffeine drip".

It's all part of the history of the cache and the history of our caching trips. We can laugh at the stupid DNFs later.

[+bytesnagger]

I log a DNF on each visit and leave information related to that visit because I prefer to locate the caches myself, or with company that hasn't found the cache yet either, in order to log a find. Often I read in cache logs where someone called another cacher "who told me where it was", then counts a find. These types of log entries are repeated across the cache logs, often by cachers with hundreds or thousands of finds. Their are groups of people that seem to help each other out by sharing information about the final cache location. Personally, I feel that discredits their finds count and I think that for these people adding another number to their finds count is more important than really finding a challenging cache on their own. This frustrates me as a new cache owner when I spent the time to create a challenging cache and new visitors just call a friend that found it already and then they go straight to the final cache site. Like when a cacher with hundreds of finds complains about the challenge and then posts that they had to call a friend to find out where the cache is located and post this activity in their logs like "spent five minutes looking and gave up and called a friend". My thought is that these people should stick with the "drive through" caches under a lamp post if they don't want to solve a cache challenge. Sorry for the rant, but that's my position on a DNF.

[+Annie & PB]

Well, I'd probably differ from most here. We log the majority of our DNF's but not all of them. If the cache is local and we are likely to go back past it tomorrow, and the next day, and the day after that ..... (like 200-500 metres away or somewhere around our small town. ) I'm not likely to log all our DNFs - probably only after we 've not found it 3 or 4 times.

 

It would just be too boring for us, and the owner, and the paperless folk who actually want the lst 5 logs that they have on their PDA to tell them something more useful than Annie & PB are blind as bats!!!!

 

If we are out of town, or if we have really seriously looked for it or we have useful information to share we will log a DNF.

 

Annie

Edited May 27, 2008 by Annie & PB

[+darklighter]

I log a DNF on each visit and leave information related to that visit because I prefer to locate the caches myself, or with company that hasn't found the cache yet either, in order to log a find. Often I read in cache logs where someone called another cacher "who told me where it was", then counts a find. These types of log entries are repeated across the cache logs, often by cachers with hundreds or thousands of finds. Their are groups of people that seem to help each other out by sharing information about the final cache location. Personally, I feel that discredits their finds count and I think that for these people adding another number to their finds count is more important than really finding a challenging cache on their own. This frustrates me as a new cache owner when I spent the time to create a challenging cache and new visitors just call a friend that found it already and then they go straight to the final cache site. Like when a cacher with hundreds of finds complains about the challenge and then posts that they had to call a friend to find out where the cache is located and post this activity in their logs like "spent five minutes looking and gave up and called a friend". My thought is that these people should stick with the "drive through" caches under a lamp post if they don't want to solve a cache challenge. Sorry for the rant, but that's my position on a DNF.

 

So, I get where you're coming from, but I'm inclined to take a "live and let live" approach to it. If people don't want to challenge themselves to find your tricky placements, then that's really up to them. For some people, they get their best experience by calling a friend. Me, I spent an hour over the weekend searching for a 1.5 micro that was eluding me something fierce. I want to find it on my own, because that's how I enjoy it. If something really stumps me, I'll e-mail the cache owner for a hint.

 

And, one final thing -- some people might do that because they care about the numbers, but just because they do doesn't mean that you have to as well. =)

[+rbsb178]

What is peoples opinion on this one. Would you log it as a DNF if you went to a newly posted cache. looked for over an hour only to discover even though it had been posted the cache hadn't been placed yet?

[+TrailGators]

Whenever I get stumped and can't find the cache I'll log a DNF. However, I won't bother to log a DNF if 2-3 others have already logged a DNF for our group.

[Pup Patrol]

What is peoples opinion on this one. Would you log it as a DNF if you went to a newly posted cache. looked for over an hour only to discover even though it had been posted the cache hadn't been placed yet?

I did exactly that, in my one serious attempt at getting a FTF.

 

There had been no DNF's posted on the cache page, indicating to me that no one had gone looking for it. When we got to the supposed cache location, it was obvious by the trampled grass that there had been an extensive search for the cache.

 

We spent an hour looking for the cache, at all the "obvious" hiding places, decrypting the clue, then extending our search perimeters. Phhhtt...at least we got to see lots of deer.

 

I dutifully logged the DNF, believing that we had to be completely clueless. Then another team logged their DNF. They had visited the location soon after we had left.

 

The cache owner didn't contact us, or post a note on the cache page to let us know that the cache hadn't been placed yet.

 

I believe it was a week or so later that the cache was "found" finally. And the Found It log said something like "easy find, don't see what the problem is in finding it".

 

The other team that DNF'ed the same day went back and found it later, then confirmed to me by email that we had been looking in the correct spot.

 

We have no intention of going back, could care less about having the DNF stay in our stats.

 

If that happens again, I won't post it as a DNF, but rather as a Note....let the folks know that I suspect (correctly in this case) that the cache hasn't been placed yet.

 

If we make no attempt whatsoever to find the cache, I don't log it as DNF or even post a note. Only when we make a "serious" attempt to find it, do I post the results on the cache page, whether it's a DNF or a note.

Edited July 25, 2008 by Pup Patrol

[+rbsb178]

Thank you for your response. This was also my first really serious attempt at a FTF. I did receive a nice email from the cache owner stating that they placed it 15 minutes after I left, but I now have no desire to go back for the find. Thanks again.