Cheating is only cheating yourself.

[+wandering4cache]

As I expand my time caching, caching in other areas & reading more online, I've learned so much about how other people "cheat" for lack of a better word. I don't care that they do, but I just feel sorry for them. They cheated themselves out of actually achieving a find.

 

I've come across logs clearly saying they found the path, didn't find cache, and they guess its not a find, but logged it as found anyway. ???

 

Seen this one too many times to count on our own caches. Several names all written in same handwritting. The other people log online weeks or months later that they found it. I suspect they weren't even there especially since at events they've been seen in different locations. (IE: split up, sign each others names, log twice as many caches as found that way)

 

There is no shame in not finding a cache. No shame at all. Heck, some of our best logs are DNF logs.

 

Honestly, its amusing to me in a way since I'm clearly not this clever and it took me 5+ years to notice how some (not all) people get such high numbers in short amounts of time. Now on the otherhand, if that's standard procedure in other parts of the country & ok with everyone, then I want to move there to increase my numbers! LOL Its pretty much frowned upon where I live.

Edited March 26, 2008 by wandering4cache

[+intolerable]

Seen this one too many times to count on our own caches. Several names all written in same handwritting. The other people log online weeks or months later that they found it. I suspect they weren't even there especially since at events they've been seen in different locations. (IE: split up, sign each others names, log twice as many caches as found that way)

 

Just to comment on just the above part. When I cache with my wife and son, one of us signs all of our names to the log. I always log my finds the day of the find. My son is 4, so I log his finds. I *usually* do this the day of the find, but sometimes its a few days later or even as long as a week later. My wife typically logs her finds weeks or months later (she has finds not logged that go back 3-4 months at least...)

 

But when we cache together we always stay together and none of us log finds we weren't there for.

 

While I have no doubt that people do exactly what you suspect above, I wanted to point out that what you are describing could also be a completely different scenario. So, as its all just a game in the end, I wouldn't stress it too much

[+Team_CSG]

Seen this one too many times to count on our own caches. Several names all written in same handwritting. The other people log online weeks or months later that they found it. I suspect they weren't even there especially since at events they've been seen in different locations. (IE: split up, sign each others names, log twice as many caches as found that way)

 

Just to comment on just the above part. When I cache with my wife and son, one of us signs all of our names to the log. I always log my finds the day of the find. My son is 4, so I log his finds. I *usually* do this the day of the find, but sometimes its a few days later or even as long as a week later. My wife typically logs her finds weeks or months later (she has finds not logged that go back 3-4 months at least...)

 

But when we cache together we always stay together and none of us log finds we weren't there for.

 

While I have no doubt that people do exactly what you suspect above, I wanted to point out that what you are describing could also be a completely different scenario. So, as its all just a game in the end, I wouldn't stress it too much

Agreed!! When I'm with a group, the person who finds the cache will sign for the group, while someone else will review the contents of the cache for trade items.

[+Miragee]

As I expand my time caching, caching in other areas & reading more online, I've learned so much about how other people "cheat" for lack of a better word. I don't care that they do, but I just feel sorry for them. They cheated themselves out of actually achieving a find.

 

I've come across logs clearly saying they found the path, didn't find cache, and they guess its not a find, but logged it as found anyway. ???

 

Seen this one too many times to count on our own caches. Several names all written in same handwritting. The other people log online weeks or months later that they found it. I suspect they weren't even there especially since at events they've been seen in different locations. (IE: split up, sign each others names, log twice as many caches as found that way)

 

There is no shame in not finding a cache. No shame at all. Heck, some of our best logs are DNF logs.

 

Honestly, its amusing to me in a way since I'm clearly not this clever and it took me 5+ years to notice how some (not all) people get such high numbers in short amounts of time. Now on the otherhand, if that's standard procedure in other parts of the country & ok with everyone, then I want to move there to increase my numbers! LOL Its pretty much frowned upon where I live.

Sounds like you have some "candidates" for this Forum Thread.

 

Also, if I am caching in a group, one person will sign all the names, or sometimes a "group name" will be used. Then, when each person logs online, they will say they were with "x" group and include the names of the people they were with (unless it is more than 30 people like a "We Be Jeepin;" Event I participated in last Saturday.)

 

When some one logged a non-find "Found it" on one of my caches, I sent a friendly email to them asking them to change it to a "Note." They did. If all cache owners would do that, perhaps there wouldn't be so many "Found it=Didn't Find it" logs.

[+wandering4cache]

When we cache with other people, the log gets passed around & everyone signs their own name. I've seen it done this way with everyone we've cached with. Must be a regional thing. You sign your own name.

[+wandering4cache]

Sounds like you have some "candidates" for this Forum Thread.

 

Also, if I am caching in a group, one person will sign all the names, or sometimes a "group name" will be used. Then, when each person logs online, they will say they were with "x" group and include the names of the people they were with (unless it is more than 30 people like a "We Be Jeepin;" Event I participated in last Saturday.)

 

When some one logged a non-find "Found it" on one of my caches, I sent a friendly email to them asking them to change it to a "Note." They did. If all cache owners would do that, perhaps there wouldn't be so many "Found it=Didn't Find it" logs.

 

That looks like an interesting thread for my educational purpose. lol Thanks. I'll enjoy reading that one tonight.

Edited March 26, 2008 by wandering4cache

[+Miragee]

When we cache with other people, the log gets passed around & everyone signs their own name. I've seen it done this way with everyone we've cached with. Must be a regional thing. You sign your own name.

We usually sign our own names if the group is small, but when the group is large, one person signs for everyone . . . it would take too long to pass the log around to several people, when the goal of the day is to continue the walk and find more caches.

[+intolerable]

When we cache with other people, the log gets passed around & everyone signs their own name. I've seen it done this way with everyone we've cached with. Must be a regional thing. You sign your own name.

 

When I cache with others, but not my family, that's how we always do it too. Each person signs the log themselves. But as a family, my wife likes to sign the log, I like to look at the trackables and my son likes to check out the loot, so we each have a role as our 'team' :-) I'm more than happy to let my wife sign all our names as she tries to put a little thought into her logs whereas I typically just sign 'date/name, TFTC!' as I want to get to the looking for trackables ;-)

[+dew cache]

I don't think the problem is with everyone not signing the log that is in the group but if a group goes to an area and splits up into 3 smaller groups and each small group find 5 caches and they all say they find all of them in other words they all claim 15 finds. I never go with anyone other than my wife and she does not even have an account we both use mine, she has never gone out except with me.

[+ReadyOrNot]

I don't think the problem is with everyone not signing the log that is in the group but if a group goes to an area and splits up into 3 smaller groups and each small group find 5 caches and they all say they find all of them in other words they all claim 15 finds. I never go with anyone other than my wife and she does not even have an account we both use mine, she has never gone out except with me.

 

I was with you up until "3 smaller groups each finding 5 caches" part... I don't mind one person signing the log as long as everyone was present at the cache. If they weren't there, what are you doing signing them in? How exactly did they participate in finding the cache if they weren't even there when it was signed?

[+brokenoaks]

It may be over simplifying but it appears to me that geocachers are split into two generalized factions. Those that care about the numbers and those that do not. As with most things that have opposing views, it can be difficult to understand each others motivations. If one cares about the numbers, get out and do it! There really are no rules except the ones we impose on ourselves. If the numbers are not all that important to you, get out there and find that cache and log it or don’t. It really doesn’t matter, just have fun.

As for me and my wife, the numbers don’t matter but the type of cache does. I prefer a good hike and a challenging search. She enjoys the long hike but is just as thrilled to find one at the end of a guard rail. I just don’t understand that.

[+Thrak]

As the OP said, they are only "cheating" themselves. Not much to be done about it. I fail to understand why folks do it but I know they do. I want to find the dang cache. The numbers tell me how many I've found but, if I just want to make up numbers, I could easily log a ton of caches I never visit. Most owners aren't out there physically checking the logs all the time for accuracy. My enjoyment comes from searching for and finding the cache; not from the numbers. People are strange.

[+dew cache]

I don't think the problem is with everyone not signing the log that is in the group but if a group goes to an area and splits up into 3 smaller groups and each small group find 5 caches and they all say they find all of them in other words they all claim 15 finds. I never go with anyone other than my wife and she does not even have an account we both use mine, she has never gone out except with me.

 

I was with you up until "3 smaller groups each finding 5 caches" part... I don't mind one person signing the log as long as everyone was present at the cache. If they weren't there, what are you doing signing them in? How exactly did they participate in finding the cache if they weren't even there when it was signed?

 

I agree with you all members of the big group did not find all 15 caches but in some cases they are claiming that they did that is wrong. Some of people are in the hobby just for the numbers I could care less I see people that claim 200-300 finds in a day I just don't see how they can do that many in a day I went out last Friday for 7 hours and found 14 I can not see averaging that everytime I go out. Two hundred and fifty would have to travel at least 25 miles and unless they were going on a road with a LPC every 500 feet I just don't see it. I mean it takes an average of 5 minutes when you get to a cache area to find it, sign the log, put it back, get in the car, drive another 500 feet, park the car and get out. 300 finds times 5 minutes is 1500 minutes or 25 hours???

 

I am not calling anybody cheaters but I can not see how they do it and still have a life. Again I don't care it does not hurt me. I am not into it for number is so I would have a lot more finds than 261 after 641 days caching. Some stats for high finders:

 

Total: 10810 finds

Total days since first find: 1514 - Overall find Rate: 7.14/day, 50/week

Total days with a find: 733 (Every 2.1 days or 48.4% of your total days) - Average finds per caching day: 14.75

Best day: 6/01/05 - 251 finds

 

Total: 12737

Total days since first find: 2274 - Overall find Rate: 5.6/day, 39.22/week

Total days with a find: 1032 (Every 2.2 days or 45.4% of your total days) - Average finds per caching day: 12.34

Best day: 5/28/06 - 230 finds

Most consecutive days with a find: 14 from 2/28/07 to 3/13/07

Longest caching drought: 31 days from 9/01/02 to 10/01/02

 

Total: 11102

Total days since first find: 1626 - Overall find Rate: 6.83/day, 47.81/week

Total days with a find: 773 (Every 2.1 days or 47.6% of your total days) - Average finds per caching day: 14.36

Best day: 6/01/05 - 269 finds

Most consecutive days with a find: 12 from 8/19/04 to 8/30/04

Longest caching drought: 111 days from 10/15/03 to 2/02/04

[+ReadyOrNot]

I don't think the problem is with everyone not signing the log that is in the group but if a group goes to an area and splits up into 3 smaller groups and each small group find 5 caches and they all say they find all of them in other words they all claim 15 finds. I never go with anyone other than my wife and she does not even have an account we both use mine, she has never gone out except with me.

 

I was with you up until "3 smaller groups each finding 5 caches" part... I don't mind one person signing the log as long as everyone was present at the cache. If they weren't there, what are you doing signing them in? How exactly did they participate in finding the cache if they weren't even there when it was signed?

 

I agree with you all members of the big group did not find all 15 caches but in some cases they are claiming that they did that is wrong. Some of people are in the hobby just for the numbers

 

I am NOT in it for the numbers.. In fact I could care less how many caches I have or don't have, but what I do care about is that what I claim to have is in fact the number of caches that I have found. There are more groups than just "Those that care about numbers" and "Those that don't"

 

1) Those that care about the numbers and cheat

2) Those that care about the numbers and don't cheat

3) Those that don't care about the numbers and cheat

4) Those that don't care about the numbers and don't cheat

 

I'm a 4... Please don't label me as a 2.

[+sbell111]

... The other people log online weeks or months later that they found it. ...

I guess that you feel sorry for me, since there have been times that I've logged my finds a year or even two after the fact.

 

I am NOT in it for the numbers.. In fact I could care less how many caches I have or don't have, but what I do care about is that what I claim to have is in fact the number of caches that I have found.

Is someone arguing that you haven't found the caches that you claim to have found?

There are more groups than just "Those that care about numbers" and "Those that don't"

 

1) Those that care about the numbers and cheat

2) Those that care about the numbers and don't cheat

3) Those that don't care about the numbers and cheat

4) Those that don't care about the numbers and don't cheat

 

I'm a 4... Please don't label me as a 2.

Well, are you concerned about your find totals, or the find totals of others?

[+the hermit crabs]

Its pretty much frowned upon where I live.

We're a frowny bunch in these parts, aren't we?

 

 

[+Thrak]

I logged a couple of caches a year after I found them. I snagged a number of caches on my way home from catching some Shakespeare in Oregon one time and thought I logged all of them when I got home. The next year, when we went back for a couple more plays, we once again snagged some caches on the way home. As we pulled up to two caches my wife and I both realized we had found them the previous year. We checked the log and found my signature on one - the other had been muggled and replaced so I wasn't on the log but we knew for sure we had been there and already knew where to look for the cache. Apparently, I had failed to write the caches down in my notebook after finding them and had relied on the notebook entries when logging my caches. Even though it had been a year, I went back and logged the caches using the correct find date and included an explanation for the late log. It happens.

[+briansnat]

When we cache with other people, the log gets passed around & everyone signs their own name. I've seen it done this way with everyone we've cached with. Must be a regional thing. You sign your own name.

 

I've seen it done both ways. Most of the time the logbook is passed around, but if it's a big group, sometimes

one person will just write down everyone's names to save time.

 

I know I usually sign for my wife, but sometimes she signs for me. Depends on who has the logbook and is doing the writing. I really don't see a problem with it.

 

As far as the "cheating is only cheating yourself", that's a load of nonsense. Sure some logging practices are

absurd, but harmless (multi logging attendeds at events comes to mind), but phony found it logs can and do affect others. Nothing we do is in a vacuum. Our "found it" logs tell the community that the cache was there.

If it isn't, you can waste other geocacher's time and money, and you can delay a needed maintenance visit by the owner.

[+ReadyOrNot]

Well, are you concerned about your find totals, or the find totals of others?

 

I'm concerned only that my find total represents how many I've actually found... I've yet to have someone else's find total affect me, although, their deception (as Briansnat pointed out) can cause me grief if it causes me to think the cache was there when it was not...

 

Question for you: whether I am concerned or not about something does not make it more or less deceptive does it?

[+Seasoned Warrior]

Heck, I've known people who cheat at Solitaire. I've never been able to figure out why but they do. It doesn't matter in any way but it really makes me wonder about thier mind-set and what else they may cheat at.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

When we cache with other people, the log gets passed around & everyone signs their own name. I've seen it done this way with everyone we've cached with. Must be a regional thing. You sign your own name.

 

I was caching with three geocachers (all with their own handles) awhile back. After hitting one area and grabbing 5 caches we headed to another large park that had some nice hiking trails and four caches scattered around the park. The light drizzle that we'd had earlier turned into a light rain as we arrived at the second park. By the time we found the first cache it was a steady rain, a hard rain by the second cache. Before we reached the third cache it was a torrential downpour. On that cache, and the final we designated the person that had the foresight to bring gloves (and thus had reasonably dry hands) to sign the logs for all of us while thr rest of us huddled around him to provide cover. Even with the rain, it was one of the most enjoyable days I've had geocaching.

[+ReadyOrNot]

Heck, I've known people who cheat at Solitaire. I've never been able to figure out why but they do. It doesn't matter in any way but it really makes me wonder about thier mind-set and what else they may cheat at.

 

Exactly! Them cheating at solitaire probably won't affect you, but when they sell you the car after turning the odometer back, it sure does! A small-time cheater is a big-time cheater in training.

[Clan Riffster]

other people "cheat"

Just arguing semantics here: If you are playing a game with no rules, you can't "cheat", no matter how you play. This is not a comment in favor of that behavior, just an observation. Before I get too judgmental on someone else's log, I try to discern their intent. If their intent was to deceive, then I'll call it as such. If it was not, then I won't. Folks in here can't come up with a definitive answer regarding the age old question of, "What is a find?", and I don't imagine the other gazillion cachers who never make it to these forums are any different.

 

If I see a Found It log on one of my caches that says, "I finally made it to the middle of your God forsaken swamp. I saw your ammo can 30' up a cypress tree and didn't feel I could ascend safely, so I'll claim a find from the ground", I won't say the person lied, since they presumably, accurately described exactly what they did, nor will I say they cheated, since there are no rules prohibiting their behavior. The most I would say is that their logging standards are obviously much lower than mine.

[+wandering4cache]

I think people are missing my point. If you weren't there, you didn't find it. If you didn't find the cache & log it, you didn't find it.

 

Those are the people I was referring to saying they cheated themselves out of the experience of actually finding the cache. No sense in logging a find on a cache you never even went to or you never even found.

 

Go experience it for yourself, then log it as a found.

Edited March 27, 2008 by wandering4cache

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

I think people are missing my point. If you weren't there, you didn't find it. If you didn't find the cache & log it, you didn't find it.

 

Those are the people I was referring to saying they cheated themselves out of the experience of actually finding the cache. No sense in logging a find on a cache you never even went to or you never even found.

 

Go experience it for yourself, then log it as a found.

We got your point, and by far the most of us agree.

 

It's just that some of us can't pass up an opportunity to rant and rave about them dang (percieved) cheaters!

 

As far as assuming that folks who post big numbers MUST be cheating, how it's done has been explained repeatedly in these forums.

 

I was with a group that stayed together for nine hours and found 67 caches two weekends ago Saturday.

 

And I happen to know for a fact that a group can find 284 (while staying together) in 24 hours!

 

Don't assume that because you can't do it in your area others can't do it in theirs. A PQ of my area (35210) shows 500 caches within 11 miles of my house... anyone that wants to find 80 to 100 in one day is invited to come and I will show you how!

 

Certainly no way to cache every day, but it can be fun once in a while.

[+ar_kayaker]

I keep up with my personal numbers because I'm one of those people that enjoy math and numbers in general, but geocaching is about the find. It's like a soduko or a crossword puzzle, the fun is in the doing and in the accomplishment.

 

Comparing numbers with other people is just another way for people to get attention. "Look at me, I have 1000 finds a day!"

 

What's to compare anyway? Should a guy who still works for a living be impressed that a retired guy can find more caches per year? Should a stay-at-home mom who started caching in 2007 be impressed that her childless colledge-student-forever friend who discovered caching in 2001 has more total finds? And group caching....please. Let's all tag along with eagle-eye Evan and let him do all the work while we plunder the swag and get credit for being able to sign our names...if he doesn't do that for us too.

 

AK

[+TrailGators]

I'm not sure if any of the OPs shrapnel hit me because I sometimes cache with large groups and we always sign as a group. However, we are all there!

[+sbell111]

Well, are you concerned about your find totals, or the find totals of others?

I'm concerned only that my find total represents how many I've actually found... I've yet to have someone else's find total affect me, although, their deception (as Briansnat pointed out) can cause me grief if it causes me to think the cache was there when it was not...

 

Question for you: whether I am concerned or not about something does not make it more or less deceptive does it?

I'm not at all convinced that anything that was addressed in the OP was deceptive.

• Sometimes people describe a DNF in a 'found' log. -- It's not too difficult to realize that many of these were simple errors in selecting (or failing to reselect) the log type.) These errors may make someone think that a missing cache may still be in place, if you only take a look at the log type and not the log, but is not necessarily an attempt to decieve the cache owner, you, or Brian.
  
• Many times multiple physical logs are in the same handwriting. -- That is because people often sign for their entire group, rather than passing the log book around. These logs won't decieve you or Brian into thinking that a missing cache was present, since the cache was clearly there at the time of the logs.
  
• Sometimes people take months to log finds online. -- Sometimes these logs are made years after the fact. It doesn't mean that the cache wasn't found. (It should also be mentioned that these late logs are not going to decieve you or Brian into thinking that the cache is still there.
  
• Some cachers have a really, really high number of finds. -- These cachers find a really, really large number of caches. A high find count is not, in itself, proof that someone is trying to decieve teh cache owner, you, or Brian.
  

[Mr.Yuck]

I'm not sure if any of the OPs shrapnel hit me because I sometimes cache with large groups and we always sign as a group. However, we are all there!

 

Yeah, I'd say half my finds are with groups, and one person always signs. The same for most other caching groups I know of. I'd bet an infintesimally small number of the multiple names you see in the same handwriting in paper logs are cheaters who weren't actually there.

 

Despite commenting only on that portion of the OP, don't worry, I got the point.

Edited March 27, 2008 by TheWhiteUrkel

[+Ry and Ny]

 

And I happen to know for a fact that a group can find 284 (while staying together) in 24 hours!

 

 

While mathematically possible, I find that very difficult to believe in real world conditions. Assuming you don't stop for meals, drink, rest or other biological needs, that is one find per 11.84 minutes.

 

With 500 caches in an 11 mile radius, you're covering approximately 380 square miles. Averaged out, that is one cache every .76 square mile. Presuming you're evenly spread out (you may have clusters, but thenn have longer distances between clusters as well), you're traveling roughly 216 miles. Now, you can go "well, yeah, I can hop in a car and 216 miles takes me 3 hours--less if you knew how *I* drive!!". Not if you're covering it in average 3/4 mile increments you can't. Figuring an average speed of 25 miles an hour (which is EXTREMELY generous in this case since we're taking short hops and haven't considered parking), you're talking about 8.64 hours ONLY in the car. That's not counting getting out, searching, finding, signing logs and getting back to the car.

 

That, of course, is presuming you're not riding a bike. Biking does help you avoid the parking issue and, with a well planned route, you might be able to keep travel to a minimum. That being said, though, unless you're a world class endurance athlete and traveling with a group of world class endurance athletes, I doubt you're putting 215 miles on the bike in 24 hours PLUS getting off and searching, signing logs and making sure you're replacing the cache properly.

 

If anyone told me they just got done doing that, I'd insist they pull out their GPSr and show me the tracking logs to prove it. I'm sure I'm going to draw flames for this, but until someone can show me that, I call shenanigans.

[+sbell111]

Trust us, it's possible. Methods to find LTOS of caches in a single 24 hour period are well documented, as is the 284 that TAR referred to.

[+briansnat]

 

And I happen to know for a fact that a group can find 284 (while staying together) in 24 hours!

 

 

While mathematically possible, I find that very difficult to believe in real world conditions. Assuming you don't stop for meals, drink, rest or other biological needs, that is one find per 11.84 minutes.

 

 

2 months ago I found 5 caches in well under an hour. That's over cache every 12 minutes. Oh I was on crutches, taking my time and doing my own driving. I also bypassed several more caches in that hour because I was not interested in guardrail hides. I easily could have found 7 or 8 in that hour, on crutches and doing my own driving.

 

With that in mind, I have no doubt that someone in a cache rich area, with proper advance planning, two healthy legs and someone behind the wheel to chauffeur him can keep that rate up over a 24 hour period.

The reason I have no doubt is because it has been done.

[+Aartex]

I don't think the problem is with everyone not signing the log that is in the group but if a group goes to an area and splits up into 3 smaller groups and each small group find 5 caches and they all say they find all of them in other words they all claim 15 finds. I never go with anyone other than my wife and she does not even have an account we both use mine, she has never gone out except with me.

 

Same here. Although I may go occasionally without the wife she is always along, and sometimes my 7 yo grand daughter goes instead of the wife. Hence "Mad" Dreamer (me) and Lil'Dreamer (wife). Which leads to the question; Should we make seperate ID's here and on the logs found or the way it is now acceptable?

 

And as for poster sayer those with high number of finds in a day are hard to believe, some of us don't really have a life as you suggest

Edited March 27, 2008 by Mad&Lil'Dreamer

[+Wacka]

I have cached with 4 of the top 10 cachers and yes, they do find that many a day.

[+XopherN71]

I really don't care what other people do if it doesn't effect me, which this doesn't.

 

It's a fun hobby, I have 6 whole caches under my belt and I'm happy to have that many. I'll have more as time goes on, but I'm in no hurry to find them all in 'x' days/weeks/months/years.

 

Maybe my view will change someday, but I hope not... I hate to think I'd dwell on other people's numbers.

[+SeventhSon]

I really don't care what other people do if it doesn't effect me, which this doesn't.

 

It's a fun hobby, I have 6 whole caches under my belt and I'm happy to have that many. I'll have more as time goes on, but I'm in no hurry to find them all in 'x' days/weeks/months/years.

 

Maybe my view will change someday, but I hope not... I hate to think I'd dwell on other people's numbers.

 

You sound like me. I'm coming up on 6 years and still haven't broken 200 finds. I have as much fun now as I did on day one. I'm in no race and have yet to be burnt out by a specific type of hide. The feeling I get when I spot the container is still a rush. I have yet to consider any part of this hobby a waste of my time. And I don't have to drive very far for an unfound cache

[+quadcity007]

 

Best day: 6/01/05 - 251 finds

 

Best day: 5/28/06 - 230 finds

 

Best day: 6/01/05 - 269 finds

 

 

Holy Cow!!! Then again, perhaps the word "find" to some people means something else? Now THAT sure is some kinda FREAKY DEAKY.

[+XopherN71]

At 250 per day, that's one find every 5.76 minutes for 24 hours straight.

 

Yeah, ok

 

Would look something like this:

Edited March 28, 2008 by XopherN71

[+quadcity007]

1) Those that care about the numbers and cheat

2) Those that care about the numbers and don't cheat

3) Those that don't care about the numbers and cheat

4) Those that don't care about the numbers and don't cheat

 

I'm a 4... Please don't label me as a 2.

 

TWO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Just kidding ... sorry, couldn't resist that open door of opportunity.

[Neos2]

Heck, I've known people who cheat at Solitaire. I've never been able to figure out why but they do. It doesn't matter in any way but it really makes me wonder about thier mind-set and what else they may cheat at.

My mother cheats at solitaire.

 

She doesn't like to play it on her computer because the computer won't let her cheat.

 

She does it because she is just using the deck of cards to waste time anyway, and going ahead and finishing out that set she has already dealt out seems like more fun to her than dealing out a new game. She is aware that she has already lost that hand. It's her time to waste.

 

She doesn't cheat at anything else--ever. She won't stop short at stop signs, she won't keep too much change from the clerk, and she won't park in the handicap parking spaces (even though she is 71 and has a bad leg that sometimes collapses on her without warning) because she doesn't have a handicap sticker on her car.

 

It might occur to me to wonder why some of you do what you do, but it doesn't occur to me to call it "cheating" and point fingers just because it's not what I do.

[+TeamGumbo]

If I didn't cheat at Solitaire, I'd go insane.

[+TrailGators]

 

And I happen to know for a fact that a group can find 284 (while staying together) in 24 hours!

 

 

While mathematically possible, I find that very difficult to believe in real world conditions. Assuming you don't stop for meals, drink, rest or other biological needs, that is one find per 11.84 minutes.

 

 

2 months ago I found 5 caches in well under an hour. That's over cache every 12 minutes. Oh I was on crutches, taking my time and doing my own driving. I also bypassed several more caches in that hour because I was not interested in guardrail hides. I easily could have found 7 or 8 in that hour, on crutches and doing my own driving.

 

With that in mind, I have no doubt that someone in a cache rich area, with proper advance planning, two healthy legs and someone behind the wheel to chauffeur him can keep that rate up over a 24 hour period.

The reason I have no doubt is because it has been done.

It's totally possible. I once did 100 in 10.5 hours with two friends and we walked to over half of them. Our route was all pre-planned and the caches were all close together. You can fit 9-10 caches per mile and it only takes 20 minutes to walk a mile. That leaves 3-4 minutes to find and log each cache, which is easy when the caches are all low difficulty. If you drive to them you can go faster then that and not get tired.

[Mushtang]

Every time I read a long thread about "cheating" at geocaching, something always becomes very clear by the replies given.

 

The people who are most outraged about other cachers cheating are only mad because THEY are the ones obsessed with numbers. They compare their find counts to everyone else's, and if someone has "cheated" and inflated their find count, these complainers don't look as good in comparison.

 

The people who don't seem to care if someone else has an accurate find count are generally the ones that truly don't care about other people's numbers.

[+XopherN71]

The people who are most outraged about other cachers cheating are only mad because THEY are the ones obsessed with numbers. They compare their find counts to everyone else's, and if someone has "cheated" and inflated their find count, these complainers don't look as good in comparison.

 

The people who don't seem to care if someone else has an accurate find count are generally the ones that truly don't care about other people's numbers.

 

Is your dad John Madden?

 

Read in your best Madden voice:

You see in geocaching, you have two groups... The ones who care about the numbers and the ones that don't care about the numbers. The ones that care about the numbers are the ones that care and the ones that don't care about the numbers are the ones that don't care.

Edited March 28, 2008 by XopherN71

[+tozainamboku]

There are 4 things one could care or not care about:

1. how big your number is
   
2. how accurate your number is (i.e. do you cheat?)
   
3. how big someone else's number is
   
4. how accurate someone else's number is (i.e. do they cheat?)
   

So there are 16 groups of geocachers:

 

means care, means doesn't care

means own, means other cacher's

means bigger, means acurate

 

the groups are

 

The board wouldn't let me post so many emoticons in one message. Otherwise, I could have taken credit for posting the most smileys in one message

[Mushtang]

The people who are most outraged about other cachers cheating are only mad because THEY are the ones obsessed with numbers. They compare their find counts to everyone else's, and if someone has "cheated" and inflated their find count, these complainers don't look as good in comparison.

 

The people who don't seem to care if someone else has an accurate find count are generally the ones that truly don't care about other people's numbers.

 

Is your dad John Madden?

 

Read in your best Madden voice:

You see in geocaching, you have two groups... The ones who care about the numbers and the ones that don't care about the numbers. The ones that care about the numbers are the ones that care and the ones that don't care about the numbers are the ones that don't care.

I guess I should have added that the people in the first group, who obviously do care about numbers, are the only ones shouting "It's not about the numbers", "numbers don't matter", and "people are cheating because all they care about are numbers".

[+briansnat]

The people who are most outraged about other cachers cheating are only mad because THEY are the ones obsessed with numbers. They compare their find counts to everyone else's, and if someone has "cheated" and inflated their find count, these complainers don't look as good in comparison.

 

Some people just don't care about numbers, but care even less for cheaters.

 

I know it annoys the heck out of me that someone like Barry Bonds would cheat even though I don't even have numbers to compare to him. I reserve the right to be outraged that Rosie Ruiz would take a cab to the finish line and win the Boston Marathon even though I've never run in a marathon. I can detest someone like Jason Blair who would plagiarize and fabricate "news" stories for the NY Times even though I've never had a desire to be a newspaper reporter. I can have disdain for Milli Vanilli and their phony Grammy win though I'm not a singer.

Edited March 28, 2008 by briansnat

[+StarBrand]

Every time I read a long thread about "cheating" at geocaching, something always becomes very clear by the replies given.

 

The people who are most outraged about other cachers cheating are only mad because THEY are the ones obsessed with numbers. They compare their find counts to everyone else's, and if someone has "cheated" and inflated their find count, these complainers don't look as good in comparison.

 

The people who don't seem to care if someone else has an accurate find count are generally the ones that truly don't care about other people's numbers.

No - I just don't like liars and cheats. After 6+ years and just 700 finds - it should be clear enough that I don't care about the numbers.

[+the hermit crabs]

The people who are most outraged about other cachers cheating are only mad because THEY are the ones obsessed with numbers. They compare their find counts to everyone else's, and if someone has "cheated" and inflated their find count, these complainers don't look as good in comparison.

That makes about as much sense as this:

 

"The people that are most outraged at the use of the word "cheating" are only mad because some of THEIR actions would be considered cheating. They compare their caching ethics with everyone else's, and if someone has stricter standards, then these complainers don't look good in comparison."

 

Neither of these statements is true.

[+ReadyOrNot]

The people who are most outraged about other cachers cheating are only mad because THEY are the ones obsessed with numbers.

 

Do you feel like if you say that enough, it will become true? I don't care about numbers at all.. I couldn't even tell you how many caches I have found (and I don't really care).... But I can tell you for sure that I haven't claimed more than I've found.

 

You are incorrect, sir.