Animal encounters

[Roadtorque]

So based of the thread "oh no, another weapon question" which seemed to talk alot about animal encounters I started to think about animals I might encounter in my area while hiking/geocaching and if I would know how to stay safe. The main animals I could think of for the outskirts of phoenix AZ that might harm me would be; black bear, mountain lions, javelina, bees(killer or regular), rattle snake, bobcats. Now I know most animals will avoid you and you should avoid them. Based off past hiking experience it seems like I never know where a rattle snake is until it starts to rattle. For some reason with me rattle snakes never rattle until I am right on top of them. I have a once found myself in close-to-striking-range and realized I have no idea how to handle this properly.

 

I was thinking we could use this thread to gather input of animals you may encounter and what to do if you find yourself in need of protection (without guns spray and so forth). After we get input and correct one another we can then post the list at the end of the thread for people like me to look at prior to heading out to a new area. A few to get us started would be, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong

 

Animal Recovery

Black bear___________?

Brown bear__________? avoid eye contact, lay in fetal position and play dead

Rattle snake_________?

Javelina_____________?

Bees___________?Run?

Mountain Lion_______? Stand your ground, do anything possible to look bigger, make noise (you cant outrun them, and only encourage them if you do)

Moose______________?

 

Now I understand that every situation is unique but lets talk about how to generally handle these situations so the majority of the people who read this can benefit. Now to avoid legal situations realize that this is more of a suggestion on how to handle animals and you should seek expert advice prior to any hike/trip where you might encounter an animal. But anyway input weclome

Edited May 21, 2008 by Roadtorque

[+Mule Ears]

I've had countless encounters with these three species, and here are my standard responses:

 

Rattle snake_________ Back away slowly

Javelina_____________ Stand your ground calmly

Bees___________ Run like heck!

 

Bees probably pose the most serious threat. Near desert springs I've gotten them stirred up and been swarmed. I've run, and a small detachment of bees has followed and 'bumped' me. After a couple hundred yards, the bees have given up and returned to base.

 

You neglected to list wasps, another serious desert hazard. They swarm mid-summer and will land on your skin and sip your sweat. Ignore them and you're OK. Run or swat and you're toast.

[+TotemLake]

Here's what I know through reading, videos, and a couple of encounters with bees, wasps, and snakes.

 

Animal Likely mode of attack, Recovery

Black bear___________? most likely to attack from behind, will charge if cubs are nearby, avoid eye contact, back away slowly speaking softly, fight like hell and make a lot of noise if attacked. Running makes you look like food.

Brown bear__________? most likely to charge you at a slightest transgression, avoid eye contact, back away slowly, make as lilttle noise as possible, lay in fetal position and play dead when attacked. Running makes you look like food.

Rattle snake_________? has lousy eysight but has superior infrared targeting and will strike towards the center of the heat source, stop quickly then slowly back away. Tall boots or gaiters are the best form of protection in encounter. Your presence scares the heck out of them.

Bees___________? don't panic, run quickly out of the area but don't swat at them, brush them off. Killing them releases a danger pheremone and will infuriate the swarm. Same wth wasps. Attacks typically are based on defending territory.

Killer bees, bend over and kiss it goodbye, they just have anger management issues yet to be resolved.

Mountain Lion_______? most likely to attack from the rear, Stand your ground, do anything possible to look bigger, pick up smaller children without bending over, make noise and fight like hell if attacked. Running makes you look like food.

Moose______________? most likely to charge you, make yourself as unknown and invisible as possible, back out slowly with as little noise as possible. Blame it on bad eyes, or love sick jealousy issues.

Edited May 21, 2008 by TotemLake

[Roadtorque]

Thanks for the reply. All good to know. Feel free to add animals to the list, I was just trying to think of the main ones in my area. Just thought of this... a skunk? If your in spraying distance what do you do?

[+TotemLake]

Thanks for the reply. All good to know. Feel free to add animals to the list, I was just trying to think of the main ones in my area. Just thought of this... a skunk? If your in spraying distance what do you do?

TYry not to panic the animal. If they turn away from you, you'd better be at least 20 feet away and running.

 

Taken from this website

Skunks would much rather retreat than spray you. Generally, there first line of defense will be to run away. Secondly, they will usually stand their ground with an arched back and stomp their front feet. This is usually accompanied by the characteristic raising of the tail. Their last and final resort is to take aim and fire.

 

There is a lot of controversy surrounding how skunks spray. And rightfully so, since no one wants to get close enough to study them and find out. Some will turn their hind quarters towards you and then spray, but some can form a horizontal "U" with their bodies and look at you while spraying. Skunks can usually shoot their musk an average of 12 feet and can reload in a short amount of time. Some say skunks cannot spray if they are carried by the base of their tails. Don't believe it, this is just a well circulated myth.

 

You will also find odor cures there.

[+Idahogreggory]

With the exception of bees the best know defense is making plenty of noise as your hiking and an awareness of your surroundings so you can avoid dangerous situations. Animals that are health and are not hungry will gather their young and and move on if they can hear you coming, but those that don't or follow you usually have an agenda. The other methods previously mentioned suggestions can work sometimes but they do rely on a great deal of luck or fate. In thirty years of play in the woods I have only had one animal encounter that I didn't initiate, but I have come across a few areas that had crime scene tape from where bodies had been dumped and I have seen on the news where the Forest Service has discovered large marijuana fields not too far from where I have hiked that worries more then the wildlife.

[southpawaz]

Coyotes?

 

I met up with a pair of javelinas earlier this spring on a hike to Bushnell Tanks. They were both young, and we passed by each other without incident. I was keeping my eyes open for their mother but she apparently wasn't around, so I stopped and watched them for a bit, and they went about their way foraging without paying much attention to me at all.

 

As for bees, here's a link to an information sheet from ag.arizona.edu with additional information, but basically (as previously stated) RUN (while being careful not to trip and fall). From other things I've read, their defensive mechanism is much more likely to kick to defend an established colony or hive, as opposed to swarms or balls of bees in a tree or bush. In the latter situation, the bees are searching for a spot to establish a new permanent hive, are full of materials the will need to establish the new colony, and therefor tend to be more docile.

Edited May 21, 2008 by southpawaz

[+TotemLake]

Coyotes?

 

 

Don't leave pet food out and keep small pets close to you. Coyotes by themselves are pretty timid if not curious and are likely leaving the scene to get away. They'll peek at you from a distance to see what you're up to. Coyotes in packs are looking for food and your best bet is to avoid contact. As with all canines in a pack, they tend to get more aggressive. They're like kids and will egg each other on until the situation becomes very dangerous to the victim/prey. They are sneaks and will rob the camp if they think they can get away with it.

[Shiraz-mataz]

Drunk Redneck______? Pepper spray in the eyes followed by a whack to his head with your hiking stick. If you aren't in favor of violence, carry a can of beer with you, catch his attention by waving the can in front of his eyes, and then toss the can out in the woods. While he is foraging for the can, make your escape.

[+TotemLake]

Drunk Redneck______? Pepper spray in the eyes followed by a whack to his head with your hiking stick. If you aren't in favor of violence, carry a can of beer with you, catch his attention by waving the can in front of his eyes, and then toss the can out in the woods. While he is foraging for the can, make your escape.

[+briansnat]

The most common "predator" in NJ is the black bear. When I see them while hiking and geocaching they generally take off. Camping is a different matter. I always hang my food at night away from camp and cook and eat a good distance from the tent. On the handful of occasions where I had a bear in camp at night I took to banging my trekking poles together to scare them off.

 

Rattlesnakes and copperheads I just give a wide berth.

 

Porcupines are the worst. I've had our campsite attacked by porcupines on several occasions. They are relentless. They aren't afraid so will go after food and pots and pans while you are sitting at the fire just a few feet away. I've nailed them with rocks, whacked them with a hiking pole and they retreat for about 5 minutes, then come back. They will also chew your boots if you leave them out and some members of my party have had their packs chewn through by them.

[Roadtorque]

Coyotes?

 

I met up with a pair of javelinas earlier this spring on a hike to Bushnell Tanks. They were both young, and we passed by each other without incident. I was keeping my eyes open for their mother but she apparently wasn't around, so I stopped and watched them for a bit, and they went about their way foraging without paying much attention to me at all.

 

As for bees, here's a link to an information sheet from ag.arizona.edu with additional information, but basically (as previously stated) RUN (while being careful not to trip and fall). From other things I've read, their defensive mechanism is much more likely to kick to defend an established colony or hive, as opposed to swarms or balls of bees in a tree or bush. In the latter situation, the bees are searching for a spot to establish a new permanent hive, are full of materials the will need to establish the new colony, and therefor tend to be more docile.

 

Thanks for the reply, I saw the news about the guy on south mountain and having read the "oh no another weapon question" thread were my main motivation of starting this thread. Sounds like run is the best thing to do with bees. I know wolves are shy but I have read of some night encounters where wolfs have entered a camp site and attacked. Anyone know what to do here?

[+Kit Fox]

I recreate mostly in Angeles National Forest, and the Mojave Desert.

 

My biggest concern when hiking are 4-legged carnivores.

 

I carry an easily accessible Gerber LMF II in case I have physical contact with Black Bears and Mtn. Lions. In rare cases, a Bobcat or Coyote might be of concern. I usually make noise when I hike due to the loose rock that I frequently encounter. I'd rather miss the occasional deer by being noisy than surprise a Black Bear.

 

Multiple Species of Rattlesnakes call my area home. I don't make it a habit stick my hands in bushes, reach into rock crevices, or approach thick brushes without testing the area with my trekking pole first.

 

It's been a common observation of mine that you'll notice an area where bees are present before you encounter the entire colony. I hike without music or other distractions, and i'm constantly scanning my surroundings for possible dangers. I usually encounter bees near know water sources (in dry areas).

 

Drunk Redneck______? Pepper spray in the eyes followed by a whack to his head with your hiking stick. If you aren't in favor of violence, carry a can of beer with you, catch his attention by waving the can in front of his eyes, and then toss the can out in the woods. While he is foraging for the can, make your escape.

 

It's offensive to me that your so quick to stereotype White Southerners with such disdain. Had you mentioned Blacks, Mexicans or any other group with a such a quote, you would be quickly labled a racist.

[+TotemLake]

 

Drunk Redneck______? Pepper spray in the eyes followed by a whack to his head with your hiking stick. If you aren't in favor of violence, carry a can of beer with you, catch his attention by waving the can in front of his eyes, and then toss the can out in the woods. While he is foraging for the can, make your escape.

 

It's offensive to me that your so quick to stereotype White Southerners with such disdain. Had you mentioned Blacks, Mexicans or any other group with a such a quote, you would be quickly labled a racist.

It's only an observation, but it is mine...

We fail as a race when we fail to laugh at our own follies.

[+butrflybec]

 

Drunk Redneck______? Pepper spray in the eyes followed by a whack to his head with your hiking stick. If you aren't in favor of violence, carry a can of beer with you, catch his attention by waving the can in front of his eyes, and then toss the can out in the woods. While he is foraging for the can, make your escape.

 

It's offensive to me that your so quick to stereotype White Southerners with such disdain. Had you mentioned Blacks, Mexicans or any other group with a such a quote, you would be quickly labled a racist.

It's only an observation, but it is mine...

We fail as a race when we fail to laugh at our own follies.

 

I agree. Besides, some of the most redneckish folks I've known weren't from the south...ha! Though I will say we do have quite a few of those "drunk rednecks" down here, but most of them are quite harmless...unless provoked ofcourse.

[Shiraz-mataz]

Yeah, sorry to offend anyone - not the intent. Like TotemLake said, we have to laugh at our own follies. I would never cast aspersions on others about being "rednecks" without admitting to myself that I too drive a pickup truck, drink beer on the porch, and run around without my shoes on half the time!

[+Nishnabotna]

I carry an easily accessible Gerber LMF II in case I have physical contact with Black Bears and Mtn. Lions.

Balls of steel.

[+Mule Ears]

Yeah, sorry to offend anyone - not the intent. Like TotemLake said, we have to laugh at our own follies. I would never cast aspersions on others about being "rednecks" without admitting to myself that I too drive a pickup truck, drink beer on the porch, and run around without my shoes on half the time!

 

Furthermore, being of Florida redneck ancestry, I can attest that Shiraz-mataz was kidding. We're pretty much immune to pepper spray. I know this because we used to play a drinking game that involved spraying one another with Mace. You can build up a pretty good tolerance. And as for whacks on the head, come on. If that's all you got, we'll feed you to the 'gators.

 

If you're going to try to repel us with a spray of something, it'd better be buckshot.

[+TotemLake]

Yeah, sorry to offend anyone - not the intent. Like TotemLake said, we have to laugh at our own follies. I would never cast aspersions on others about being "rednecks" without admitting to myself that I too drive a pickup truck, drink beer on the porch, and run around without my shoes on half the time!

 

Furthermore, being of Florida redneck ancestry, I can attest that Shiraz-mataz was kidding. We're pretty much immune to pepper spray. I know this because we used to play a drinking game that involved spraying one another with Mace. You can build up a pretty good tolerance. And as for whacks on the head, come on. If that's all you got, we'll feed you to the 'gators.

 

If you're going to try to repel us with a spray of something, it'd better be buckshot.

Forced me to replace my keyboard this time.

 

Thanks for the laugh!

[Roadtorque]

So here is what we have come up with so far, thanks to all those who have commented so far… keep um coming

 

Bees (all but killer bees)_____Don't panic, run quickly out of the area (watch your step) don’t swat at them, killing them releases a danger pheromone and will infuriate the swarm, gently brush them off. Attacks typically are based on defending territory. If this doesn’t work, dial 911 if available, cover yourself in mud, pull cloths tight, anything that could prevent the stinger from penetrating your skin

 

Bees (killer)_____ Nothing known that will help

 

Bear (black)_____Most likely to attack from behind, will charge if cubs are nearby, avoid eye contact, back away slowly speaking softly, fight like hell and make a lot of noise if attacked. Running makes you look like food, besides you cant out run them

 

Bear (brown)_____Most likely to charge you at a slightest transgression, avoid eye contact, back away slowly, make as little noise as possible, lay in fetal position (protect head with arms) and play dead when attacked. Running makes you look like food, besides you cant out run them.

 

Javelina_____Stand your ground calmly

 

Moose_____Most likely to charge you, make yourself as unknown and invisible as possible, back out slowly with as little noise as possible.

 

Mountain Lion_____Most likely to attack from the rear, Stand your ground, do anything possible to look bigger, pick up smaller children without bending over, make noise and fight like hell if attacked. Running makes you look like food, you cant out run them anyway.

 

Rattle Snake_____Has lousy eyesight but has superior infrared targeting and will strike towards the center of the heat source, stop quickly then slowly back away. Tall boots or gaiters are the best form of protection in encounter. Your presence alone should scares the heck out of them.

 

Skunk_____ Try not to panic the animal. If they turn their butt end at you, you'd better be at least 20 feet away and running. Look Here for help with odor removal if you have been sprayed

 

Porcupines_____Walk away from them. They are not scared of you and will not leave.

Edited May 21, 2008 by Roadtorque

[+Mule Ears]

Forced me to replace my keyboard this time.

 

Thanks for the laugh!

 

You're welcome. You know, you can learn a lot about rednecks by attending a Jeff Foxworthy show. While Jeff's telling jokes about rednecks driving pickups, living in shacks with appliances in the front yard, and marrying their cousins, you can tell who the rednecks are: they're the ones laughing themselves sick. It's even easier to tell who the non-rednecks are: they're the ones who aren't there!

 

Anyhow, I didn't think Shiraz deserved too severe a drubbing. His heart's in the right place, and as he says, he meets most of the criteria for being a redneck himself. Southern Man don't need Neil Young (or any other detractors or defenders) anyhow.

 

Just took a peek in your gallery, TotemLake--I see that your defense against most animals is to let them freeze to death.

[+TotemLake]

Forced me to replace my keyboard this time.

 

Thanks for the laugh!

 

You're welcome. You know, you can learn a lot about rednecks by attending a Jeff Foxworthy show. While Jeff's telling jokes about rednecks driving pickups, living in shacks with appliances in the front yard, and marrying their cousins, you can tell who the rednecks are: they're the ones laughing themselves sick. It's even easier to tell who the non-rednecks are: they're the ones who aren't there!

 

Anyhow, I didn't think Shiraz deserved too severe a drubbing. His heart's in the right place, and as he says, he meets most of the criteria for being a redneck himself. Southern Man don't need Neil Young (or any other detractors or defenders) anyhow.

 

Just took a peek in your gallery, TotemLake--I see that your defense against most animals is to let them freeze to death.

LOL I do what I can.

[vtmtnman]

The most common "predator" in NJ is the black bear. When I see them while hiking and geocaching they generally take off. Camping is a different matter. I always hang my food at night away from camp and cook and eat a good distance from the tent. On the handful of occasions where I had a bear in camp at night I took to banging my trekking poles together to scare them off.

 

Rattlesnakes and copperheads I just give a wide berth.

 

Porcupines are the worst. I've had our campsite attacked by porcupines on several occasions. They are relentless. They aren't afraid so will go after food and pots and pans while you are sitting at the fire just a few feet away. I've nailed them with rocks, whacked them with a hiking pole and they retreat for about 5 minutes, then come back. They will also chew your boots if you leave them out and some members of my party have had their packs chewn through by them.

Dude seriously...I need to come down to Jersey to Bear hunt.I spend time in Green Mountain NF and in Northern Maine and have as of yet to see a bear other than poop or tracks.And here you are clacking trekking poles to get rid of them.

 

As for the OP,everyone pretty much covered it already.I have heard that the nose is the weak point on most mammals,so if I was attacked by a bear or a canine if I had my wits straight I'd probably try to knock it in the nose.They say it works for sharks,so why not bears or coydogs?

[+briansnat]

Dude seriously...I need to come down to Jersey to Bear hunt.I spend time in Green Mountain NF and in Northern Maine and have as of yet to see a bear other than poop or tracks.And here you are clacking trekking poles to get rid of them

 

Unfortunately our Governor Corslime went against the advice of nearly every legit wildlife management expert and banned the NJ bear hunt. So we have an estimated 3,000-5,000 black bear living largely in a fairly narrow band across northern NJ, in very close proximity to heavily populated areas. Not a good combination. We're told to keep our garbage in the garage and that will solve the problem.

[Roadtorque]

So here is what we have come up with so far, thanks to all those who have commented so far… keep um coming

 

Bees (all but killer bees)_____Don't panic, run quickly out of the area (watch your step) don’t swat at them, It's a good idea to take mosquito netting that can be pulled over your head and this for your body incase your attacked. Killing them releases a danger pheromone and will infuriate the swarm, gently brush them off. Attacks typically are based on defending territory. If this doesn’t work, dial 911 if available, cover yourself in mud, pull cloths tight, anything that could prevent the stinger from penetrating your skin

 

Bees (killer)_____ Nothing known that will help, however it's a good idea to take mosquito netting that can be pulled over your head and this to cover your body incase your attacked

 

Bear (black)_____Most likely to attack from behind, will charge if cubs are nearby, avoid eye contact, back away slowly speaking softly, fight like hell and make a lot of noise if attacked. Running makes you look like food, besides you cant out run them

 

Bear (brown)_____Most likely to charge you at a slightest transgression, avoid eye contact, back away slowly, make as little noise as possible, lay in fetal position (protect head with arms) and play dead when attacked. Running makes you look like food, besides you cant out run them.

 

Javelina_____Stand your ground calmly

 

Moose_____Most likely to charge you, make yourself as unknown and invisible as possible, back out slowly with as little noise as possible.

 

Mountain Lion_____Most likely to attack from the rear, Stand your ground, do anything possible to look bigger, pick up smaller children without bending over, make noise and fight like hell if attacked. Running makes you look like food, you cant out run them anyway.

 

Rattle Snake_____Has lousy eyesight but has superior infrared targeting and will strike towards the center of the heat source, stop quickly then slowly back away. Tall boots or gaiters are the best form of protection in encounter. Your presence alone should scares the heck out of them.

 

Skunk_____ Try not to panic the animal. If they turn their butt end at you, you'd better be at least 20 feet away and running. Look Here for help with odor removal if you have been sprayed

 

Porcupines_____Walk away from them. They are not scared of you and will not leave.

 

Update to Bees

[+zoobum]

what about big foot?

 

[+TotemLake]

Step out of his way and don't throw rocks.

[+NorthWes]

I carry an easily accessible Gerber LMF II in case I have physical contact with Black Bears and Mtn. Lions.

Balls of steel.

 

Ha! After our summer of the bear here in Anchorage AK (see newspaper articles here, neatly organized by our local paper in a special online 'bear attacks' section) I'm with Kit Fox... on Mr Bear and Mr Lion's turf, you'd better have thought out in advance what you're gonna do if an encounter goes 'bad' for you. I'm not going to go 'quietly' out as dinner, if the bear decides to close the final distance on me. And that's equally applicable to brown bears (lie still, but if it starts to dine rather than just whack & nip the daylights out of me, I'm gonna give it my best shot). Balls of steel? More like 'self-preservation'! I've had two black bear incidents while out geocaching where the bear was curious rather than scared - that's when the pulse rate goes up and you go to defensive mode. Yelling and looking 'big' helped both bears eventually fade - but one followed me for over 100 yards toward my car, on a multi-use trail here in town. I've added bear spray to my off-pavement carry kit, on the belt under my right hand (it's what all BLM workers have to carry here). Best is a noisy large caching group - I've never seen a bear or moose in that kind of crowd!

 

As for moose - well, we got charged two nights ago (thanks to a young pup of a standard poodle who'd never met one up close - she whoofed at the moose. The moose showed off who was 'king of the trail'. Both standard poodles ran like heck - but the older one was running at the first 'whoof' - she'd learned her lesson about moose last year! Smart dogs back off & return to owner...). Moose living in leash-free dog parks here are fairly mellow with people & foolish dogs... but they are quick quick quick, and have killed two people in Anchorage in the last decade (versus zero kills by bears in town in the last decade - yet).

 

It's been enough of a problem here that the city parks managers and the BLM folks (who have a huge tract of wildland right on the town's east side) asked us geocachers to 'set back' our cache placements 150' from salmon streams. We complied (in advance of all the bear encounters described in the paper) and have been blessed thus far with no encounters of the bad sort.