A mistake.. worked out.

[foxtrot_xray]

Uhm.. oops.

 

When I went down to Tybee Island, I searched for South End, and it's RM4, RM5, and RM6.

 

It was a rather easy find, actually. RM5, however, was displayed as non-publishable for reason "D" - No Descriptive Text. (I didn't know that at the time, I just now looked at my printed out sheet.) I got back and went through my notes, entering in recoveries. I didn't mean to, but I submitted a recovery for RM5.

 

Now that the NGS added GEOCAC's recoveries, I thought I'd go back and check it, see how badly I screwed up that record. I pull it up, and am surprised to find a whole bunch of reports on it, with mine at the end now. (Including two recoveries by the amazing "did not find, previous report is correct!" USPSQD duo that went across the island back in 2002-03.)

 

I don't know what the rules are on non-pub stations with "No Descriptive Text", but it appears that if a station is marked with that flag, and a submission is made with good enough info, it'll "re-publicize" the datasheet.

 

Maybe Dave can add a little insight. I'd hate to break something.

 

Mike.

[+Ernmark]

Nice find(s)

 

I had the same thing happen to me last year - I found a USGS disk w/ a non-published PID a few inches from a reference mark for Tri-Station TUSCA ..The USGS mark also had no descriptive text, so I sheepishly submitted a recovery & it allowed the PID to be republished (KW2863) ..aptly named USGS MARK NEAR TUSCA 1935.

 

I'm curious why the USGS mark didn't just become an RM itself or be used as the main station..

 

 

< RM USGS >

Edited July 22, 2008 by Ernmark

[foxtrot_xray]

Well, I'll be. Never seen two disks right next to each other like that. Isn't that redundant?

[+Ernmark]

Two disks ?! Don't get me started on that !

Two disks ?! Don't get me started on that !

KW2732 (the one on the right)

 

...actually there's been discussion in previous threads (somewhere) about that - different partites set their own mark as the leveled thru..

[foxtrot_xray]

Yeah, I know it can happen - and can uderstand why. I just never seen them that close before! The closes in perons that I've seen was.. I think a minimum of 20 feet apart.

[+Harry Dolphin]

How about a disk and a boundary monument?

 

[foxtrot_xray]

How about a disk and a boundary monument?

 

Heh, neat! You would have thought that the agency that set the disk would have just used the monument and adjusted accordingly.. You know, to save money.

[Papa-Bear-NYC]

Heh, neat! You would have thought that the agency that set the disk would have just used the monument and adjusted accordingly.. You know, to save money.

The agency that set the disk also set the monument, namely the IBC (International Boundary Commision). I think they needed to have a more stable and accessible platform for the tri station and the monument wasn't even there yet. The monument was a reference point for the virtual point in the center of the St. Croix River and was a standardized monument (there were hundreds set along the river).

 

The Tri station (QF0712 DE MONTS) was set in 1909

The Reference Monument (QF0717 REFERENCE MON 239) was set in 1921

[Papa-Bear-NYC]

(double post)

Edited July 24, 2008 by Papa-Bear-NYC

[+Harry Dolphin]

Actually, QF0717 REFERENCE MON 239 was monumented in 1921, but was in place in 1909. It's mentioned in the monumented description of QF0712 DE MONTS.

 

QF0712''STATION MARK IS A BRONZE DISK SET IN A DRILL HOLE IN THE LEDGE. THE

QF0712''LETTERS---U.S.R.M.---ARE CUT IN THE LEDGE. THE LETTERS---R.H.T.---

QF0712''HAVE BEEN WELL CUT IN THE LEDGE BY SOME UNKNOWN PERSON, THE LETTER

QF0712''---R---BEING UPSTREAM 2.76 METERS FROM THE STATION. REFERENCE

QF0712''MONUMENT 239 IS SET BESIDE THE STATION MARK, 0.35 FOOT DISTANT.

[Papa-Bear-NYC]

Actually, QF0717 REFERENCE MON 239 was monumented in 1921, but was in place in 1909. It's mentioned in the monumented description of QF0712 DE MONTS.

 

QF0712''STATION MARK IS A BRONZE DISK SET IN A DRILL HOLE IN THE LEDGE. THE

QF0712''LETTERS---U.S.R.M.---ARE CUT IN THE LEDGE. THE LETTERS---R.H.T.---

QF0712''HAVE BEEN WELL CUT IN THE LEDGE BY SOME UNKNOWN PERSON, THE LETTER

QF0712''---R---BEING UPSTREAM 2.76 METERS FROM THE STATION. REFERENCE

QF0712''MONUMENT 239 IS SET BESIDE THE STATION MARK, 0.35 FOOT DISTANT.

It's true, it does say that. But I doubt that report. I think it's two reports conflated together with information from several sources. I looked up the description of "DE MONTS" from the 1918 CGS Special Publication No. 46 "Triangulation in Maine" and the description doesn't mention the reference Monument at all.

 

Here it is from that document:

 

 

I've noticed other similar errors. For example the description of QF0752 Ref. Mon. 231. (a mile or so further up the river) Look at this:

 

DESCRIBED BY INTERNATIONAL BOUNDARY COMMISSION 1921 (NWS) ON THE W BANK OF THE ST CROIX RIVER, ABOUT 2 MILES BELOW THE CALAIS- ST STEPHEN BRIDGE, ON THE FIRST POINT BELOW THE LOWER WHARF AT THE STREAMER LANDING. THE POINT IS COVERED WITH LARGE PINE TREES, THE LARGEST BELOW THE CALAIS-ST STEPHEN BRIDGE, AND IS A FAVORITE SPOT FOR PICNICS. THE STATION IS ON A BOULDER WITH EXPOSED DIMENSIONS 1.2 BY 0.6 METER. A BRONZE DISK MARKING---BIG TREES TABLET--- TRIANGULATION STATION IS IN THE SAME BOULDER, BESIDE THE STATION. STATION MARK IS A STANDARD 8-INCH MANGANESE-BRONZE REFERENCE POST SET IN A DRILL HOLE IN THE BOULDER. SHANK ONLY LEFT FLUSH WITH ROCK. NUMBER IS CUT IN THE ROCK.

 

Notice it says it was monumented and then at the end adds "SHANK ONLY LEFT". I believe a station just monumented would not have the shank only left, but that that phrase was added later.

 

Just my take on it.

Edited July 24, 2008 by Papa-Bear-NYC

[foxtrot_xray]

Notice it says it was monumented and then at the end adds "SHANK ONLY LEFT". I believe a station just monumented would not have the shank only left, but that that phrase was added later.

 

Just my take on it.

I wonder if that's similar to some datasheets down here.

 

For example (from memory, I don't have my database here with me at the moment.) a station may have been monumented in 1933, but have no description. The first description in 1972 would be 'Monumented', but the text would "Station not recovered. To reach station, drive south on GA 5 for 3.4 miles to [...]". So the sheet would say that it was monumented, but the text would say it wasn't found.

 

I always thought it was because the paper work for the original setting was missing or taken from other documents, and when the 'recovery' was or wasn't made, data had to be copied over to 'new' paperwork.