5/5 rope climbing caches..........?

[DanRiverRunner]

My question is: Is there a way to search for caches that can only be reached with climbing gear?

Micros can be mean to me,and since I'm a climber,it's pay back time! Top of an oak tree,in the woods!

[+BrrrMo]

My question is: Is there a way to search for caches that can only be reached with climbing gear?

Micros can be mean to me,and since I'm a climber,it's pay back time! Top of an oak tree,in the woods!

 

I believe there is one in Missouri that requires a boat to get to, then climb a rock chimney, and then rappel down to a cave entrance to get to the Cache.

 

I think I found it by doing a search on unfound caches??

[+moparots]

My question is: Is there a way to search for caches that can only be reached with climbing gear?

Micros can be mean to me,and since I'm a climber,it's pay back time! Top of an oak tree,in the woods!

 

That would be cool. Luv the physically challenging caches.

[+StarBrand]

Keep in mind what your describing is certainly a 5 for terrain rating but maybe only a 1 or 2 for difficulty.

 

A true 5 for difficulty should require multiple visits to the coordinate area over several days before you can locate the cache.

[+BrrrMo]

This the one I was talking about in my earlier post. GC1D7G0

 

Disregard see post #6

Edited February 5, 2009 by BrrrMo

[+BrrrMo]

This the one I was talking about in my earlier post. GC1D7G0 It was hidden in 6/08 and no one has logged it yet.

[+briansnat]

Not really a getting started issue. Moving to general forum.

[+Notags]

Keep in mind what your describing is certainly a 5 for terrain rating but maybe only a 1 or 2 for difficulty.

 

A true 5 for difficulty should require multiple visits to the coordinate area over several days before you can locate the cache.

 

I think a 5/5 would be appropriate for a rope climbing cache due to the nature of the special equipment needed. Ascenders, belay devices and rappel racks aren't what most cachers pack.

[+The Inkwell]

There are plenty of them in our area; one is definitely a 5/5 climbing cache. Since we don't have the gear, we won't risk doing it. Then there are plenty of caches that are rated in the 4/4 range that require climbs of 30 to 40 feet up a pine tree. We've found a few of these.

[+Parabola]

Keep in mind what your describing is certainly a 5 for terrain rating but maybe only a 1 or 2 for difficulty.

 

A true 5 for difficulty should require multiple visits to the coordinate area over several days before you can locate the cache.

 

I think a 5/5 would be appropriate for a rope climbing cache due to the nature of the special equipment needed. Ascenders, belay devices and rappel racks aren't what most cachers pack.

That would be a terrain 5 but what makes it a diff 5? I agree such item's needed to go for a cache would make that a terrain 5, but all that stuff could be needed and the cache is just at the bottom of a cave or something in plain sight or easily found. Just needing climbing gear doesn't make a 5/5. It could be a 1.5/5.

[+StarBrand]

There needs to be a clear seperation between the 2 ratings or they both become somewhat meaningless.

 

To me anyway:

 

Terrain is the physical challenges I will face in getting from parking to the spot where I can then search for the cache.

 

Difficulty is how hard I need to search once I have concured those challenges.

 

If I can clearly spot the container openly tied to a tree branch from a vantage point 300 foot from the tree - it hardly qualifies as much of a difficult cache. Pretty rough terrain and special tools to get into the tree but not difficult to locate. A true 5/5 should get MUCH more respect.

[+J-Way]

Ditto what starbrand said, except to add that a hard puzzle can also make it a 5 difficulty.

[+Kit Fox]

This has always been an area, where few geocachers completely agree. If a cache requires special equipment

 

Difficulty rating 5

***** Extreme. A serious mental or physical challenge. Requires specialized knowledge, skills, or equipment to find cache.

 

Terrain Rating 5

***** Requires specialized equipment and knowledge or experience, (boat, 4WD, rock climbing, SCUBA, etc) or is otherwise extremely difficult.

 

Needing special rope equipment to access a cache makes it a 5 * Difficulty, or Terrain rating according to the Clayjar system. Needing specialized equipment, and possessing the knowledge to use the equipment bumps the difficulty rating upwards.

[DanRiverRunner]

Thanks for the info. So a camo micro 80+ ft up and out on a limb,requiring multiple tie offs, impossible to climb without climbing gear,could be a 5/5. But an ammo box on the same limb might be a 1.5/5

 

I would think that both are 5/5 because they require special skills and equipment.One would be a nice 5/5 One would be mean!

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

This has always been an area, where few geocachers completely agree. If a cache requires special equipment

 

Difficulty rating 5

***** Extreme. A serious mental or physical challenge. Requires specialized knowledge, skills, or equipment to find cache.

 

Terrain Rating 5

***** Requires specialized equipment and knowledge or experience, (boat, 4WD, rock climbing, SCUBA, etc) or is otherwise extremely difficult.

 

Needing special rope equipment to access a cache makes it a 5 * Difficulty, or Terrain rating according to the Clayjar system. Needing specialized equipment, and possessing the knowledge to use the equipment bumps the difficulty rating upwards.

Exactly! Many high Terrain rating caches will, of necessity, also incur a relatively high Difficulty rating, due to time, skill and effort required. There are, unfortunately, a small number of vocal cachers on the forum who tend to ignore the facts that Kit Fox related above, and who also try to ignore that fact that the ClayJar rating system and all the other D/T rating systems each agree fully on this point as well.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

My question is: Is there a way to search for caches that can only be reached with climbing gear?

Micros can be mean to me,and since I'm a climber,it's pay back time! Top of an oak tree,in the woods!

Well, for a start, use a pocket query (PQ) to find all the Terrain 5 caches (D/T rating of 5/5 or at least a 4/5 is even more of an indicator, in many cases) in your area of interest, and then start reading the cache listing pages closely to learn more. There exist thousands of geocaches which require use of climbing ropes, ascenders and/or rappelling devices/techniques.

 

In fact, if you are ever in the Maryland/eastern WV area, please feel free to check out my Psycho Urban Cache #12 - Impossible! Give Up Now! and my Psycho Urban Cache #14 - Cliffside Catacombs.

[+the pooks]

I cannot find the links to the official D/T definitions, but I have always regarded D as the mental part and T as the physical part. Difficulty would most often describe a difficult puzzle or sometimes a hard to find (well hidden or camouflaged) cache. I would regard using boats, rappeling, rope climbing all within the terrain rating. It goes without saying that if rope climbing is required, not only do you need the equipment, but also the skill. It would be duplicating and confusing to allocate the terrain to the ropes and the difficulty to the skill to use them.

 

But that is all about definition and interpretation. It's neither here nor there really most folks know that if they see a 5/5 cache they better start reading the listing. To me signing a log at the top of Everest would be a 1.5/5 (well 1.5/50 actually).

[CoyoteRed]

The difficulty rating is probably the only "fence sitting" issue for me.

 

Does it mean how hard is it to "put eyes" on the cache? Does that include getting yourself into a position to put eyes on it? What about the mental parts of getting yourself in a position to actually open the cache?

 

Could be combination of all.

 

Does the use of specialized equipment automatically mean a more mental part or is that assumed?

 

Another way to look at it is "difficulty" is the overall difficulty of the cache with terrain a sub-part of the difficulty. Logic, to me, would say this is not the case as then there could be no difficulty less that the corresponding terrain part; no "2/3."

 

I generally see the difficulty of a cache as how hard it is to overcome obstacles along the way in order to access the inside of the cache, but not including any physical part like distance or grade. Some caches have obstacles that aren't very physical, but are difficult, to overcome before you ever reach ground zero. Conversely, distance, grade, and physical obstacles aren't difficult to overcome beyond mere physical exertion.

 

This whole issue is a symptom of lack of guidance from those who run "The Official Global GPS Cache Hunt Site." Too many things are left to interpretation and the whims of the community. Therefore there is no authority and folks "play the way they want to play." This leaves no real standard.

 

So, I would list a technical climbing cache as a 5/5. 5 stars for terrain obviously because of specialized gear and the technical knowledge to use it. The 5 stars for difficulty is the figuring out how to overcome the obstacle--use climbing gear in a safe manner.

 

OTOH, a cache that requires a shimmy up a provided 10' rope into a tree would not automatically rate the 5 stars difficulty--you simply go up the rope. (If physically able.)

[+Isonzo Karst]

Not all 5 terrain caches are " Extreme. A serious mental or physical challenge. Requires specialized knowledge, skills, or equipment to find cache."

 

JUST special equipment doesn't make the cache find itself Extreme. Especially given that boat ownership is included as "special equipment". I own a number of 5 terrain caches; they're boat accessible. I'd not consider bumping the difficulty up because you get there by boat. Once you're there, mostly those hides are Twos.

 

Of course, some "special equipment" or considerable special knowledge in the use of that equipment alters the picture. Also, I think fatigue factors in. A modestly difficult hide 1000 feet from the parking is a modestly difficult hide (2-3). That same hide 4 miles out, across .3 of heavy bushwhacking is likely tougher, because of fatigue in the searcher.

[+Kit Fox]

I cannot find the links to the official D/T definitions, but I have always regarded D as the mental part and T as the physical part.

 

The Clayjar system incorporates both systems, while your interpretation is similiar to others, it differs with many.

 

Difficulty would most often describe a difficult puzzle or sometimes a hard to find (well hidden or camouflaged) cache. I would regard using boats, rappeling, rope climbing all within the terrain rating. It goes without saying that if rope climbing is required, not only do you need the equipment, but also the skill. It would be duplicating and confusing to allocate the terrain to the ropes and the difficulty to the skill to use them. But that is all about definition and interpretation. It's neither here nor there really most folks know that if they see a 5/5 cache they better start reading the listing. To me signing a log at the top of Everest would be a 1.5/5 (well 1.5/50 actually).

 

Not only is the terrain class five, the difficulty is a 5 also because it takes several weeks at base camp, just to acclimate your body. I know of no cachers that could climb everest in and hour or less, and sign the log. Besides the highly specialized equipment needed to climb everest, you have to be a skilled mountaineer.

[Skippermark]

If you ever get up to CT/MA/RI, there are about 5 or 6 rappelling/climbing caches here. They're popular at first by those who climb then no one finds them after that.

 

There's also a "cliffsides and grapevines" series where 3 or so climbing experts host a training session and teach others how to rappel and climb. They do all kinds of different setups from the basics to advanced stuff. Those events are all day and hugely popular.

[+Parabola]

I cannot find the links to the official D/T definitions, but I have always regarded D as the mental part and T as the physical part.

 

The Clayjar system incorporates both systems, while your interpretation is similiar to others, it differs with many.

 

Difficulty would most often describe a difficult puzzle or sometimes a hard to find (well hidden or camouflaged) cache. I would regard using boats, rappeling, rope climbing all within the terrain rating. It goes without saying that if rope climbing is required, not only do you need the equipment, but also the skill. It would be duplicating and confusing to allocate the terrain to the ropes and the difficulty to the skill to use them. But that is all about definition and interpretation. It's neither here nor there really most folks know that if they see a 5/5 cache they better start reading the listing. To me signing a log at the top of Everest would be a 1.5/5 (well 1.5/50 actually).

 

Not only is the terrain class five, the difficulty is a 5 also because it takes several weeks at base camp, just to acclimate your body. I know of no cachers that could climb everest in and hour or less, and sign the log. Besides the highly specialized equipment needed to climb everest, you have to be a skilled mountaineer.

 

I'll bet you would get great sat reception up there.

 

Very good point Kit fox!!! I hadn't thought of it that way.

[+the pooks]

Kit Fox - I actually agree with you. There is no doubt that an Everest cache would be difficult as well, in the usual sense of the word, but as used for the D/T rating it is apparent that D and T were created to describe different aspects. That is where I agree with

 

There needs to be a clear seperation between the 2 ratings or they both become somewhat meaningless.

 

It is with this background that I would group all the aspects of the Everest cache under Terrrain. Just my thought. I am well aware that many people interpret it differently, and I have no problem with that.

Edited February 7, 2009 by the pooks

[+JamGuys]

I know of no cachers that could climb everest in and hour or less, and sign the log. .

 

Oh, really?

 

[+Parabola]

I know of no cachers that could climb everest in and hour or less, and sign the log. .

 

Oh, really?

 

News flash: A photo of Bigfoot has surfaced. This photo was taken near Mt. Everest........oh what just a second, after some expert's reviewing the photo, the expert's have come to the conclustion that this isn't the fabled Bigfoot and really a geocacher that goes by the name of JamGuy's.

 

[+Kit Fox]

Kit Fox - I actually agree with you. There is no doubt that an Everest cache would be difficult as well, in the usual sense of the word, but as used for the D/T rating it is apparent that D and T were created to describe different aspects. That is where I agree with

 

There needs to be a clear seperation between the 2 ratings or they both become somewhat meaningless.

 

It is with this background that I would group all the aspects of the Everest cache under Terrrain. Just my thought. I am well aware that many people interpret it differently, and I have no problem with that.

 

 

Difficulty rating system:

**** Difficult. A real challenge for the experienced cache hunter - may require special skills or knowledge, or in-depth preparation to find. May require multiple days / trips to complete.

 

Most climbers require about four days to ascend Mount Everest from Base Camp (It takes 8-10 days to reach Everest Base Camp). The fastest ascent from the north side is held by Hans Kammerlander of Italy and took him 16 hours and 45 minutes from Base Camp. The fastest ascent from the South took just under 11 hours and was accomplished by Lakba Gelu Sherpa. Babu Chiri Sherpa, who was at the summit for 21.5 hours, holds the record for the most time spent on top of Everest. However, people typically spend about an hour at the top on average.

 

Cost

The average cost of a fully guided journey up Everest from the south side is $65,000. A fully guided climb from the north costs somewhat less, averaging around $40,000. These costs do not typically include personal gear, international airfare, or insurance, all of which can add thousands to the trip. Starting from scratch, the required gear would run at least $8,000. The figure is closer to $15,000 with the addition of items like a laptop and digital camera.