I didn't get the memo.....

[+StarBrand]

It has been long standing tradition on this forum to not offer help in solving specific puzzles on puzzle caches. At least it used to be rather well known. Be friendly but advise the question asker to the cache owner....that was was the standard answer.

 

However, the last 4 times I offered that advice, the next 4 or 5 forum participants come along and give either offbeat or rather direct hints to solve the puzzle. Thats fine I guess. I just didn't get the memo that we had as a group changed on this. I know there is no official policy.

 

What I am asking (I guess) is for a least some kind of general consensus: acceptable to help? or not?

 

Maybe this thread can be used in the future as a reference....

[greenworldfeather]

It has been long standing tradition on this forum to not offer help in solving specific puzzles on puzzle caches. At least it used to be rather well known. Be friendly but advise the question asker to the cache owner....that was was the standard answer.

 

However, the last 4 times I offered that advice, the next 4 or 5 forum participants come along and give either offbeat or rather direct hints to solve the puzzle. Thats fine I guess. I just didn't get the memo that we had as a group changed on this. I know there is no official policy.

 

What I am asking (I guess) is for a least some kind of general consensus: acceptable to help? or not?

 

Maybe this thread can be used in the future as a reference....

 

It all depends on what the person who needs help and the the helper in question feel is right and/or okay. If you think that they should do it them selves it is one thing. But if the persoin has tried several times and still cannot get it even though they have tried, and contacted the owner, then I believe it is a matter of what the two people in question think is right to do or okay for a/some situation(s). If thety want to give out a hint, I do not belive that it is anybody else's business except for those two people, unless the owner has specifically requested that no hints be given out. Even then I believe it is a matter of ethics, morals, and standards concerning only those people. If they gone to the owner and still cannot solve it, even with the help of the owner(s), then I believe it is a matter of what the solver thinks can and should be done. I have done this same thing several times, in fact. I like puzzles, but sometimes you just can't solve them and you need multiple source for help. In those instnces I believe that I should insert this bit. If you do it, then just be prepared for the consequences that will follow. Also read this. "We be live that man (or woman) shall be punished for their own sins, and not for (insert name(s) here)'s transgression."

Here is what I think is/should be allowed: If you are doing it in a group, or if the owner or someone else who has solved it is present, and is helping people who just can't solve it.

 

Here is what I think is/should not be allowed:

Basically just giving a major hint out or downright giving people the solution, especially if the owner has said not to give any hints(unless the person cannot get to that particular meeting because of some kind of conflict that can't be resolved easily, or unless the owner won't mind because several hints have already been given out, etc.).

I think I have given a pretty good explanation concerning this particular topic. Remember: It is your standards/morals and ethics that count in the end. If someone does something wrong, and you don't know about it, and you happen to carry out/on whatever it is that is not allowed, you will not receive any punishment IF you are doing it purely out of the goodness of your heart towards something or someone. It will be them that receives the punishment.

 

Thanks, and I hope that I made this a little more clear and distinguishable to everyone. Have a great day. May you choose wisely. gwf[][]

[jholly]

It has been long standing tradition on this forum to not offer help in solving specific puzzles on puzzle caches. At least it used to be rather well known. Be friendly but advise the question asker to the cache owner....that was was the standard answer.

 

However, the last 4 times I offered that advice, the next 4 or 5 forum participants come along and give either offbeat or rather direct hints to solve the puzzle. Thats fine I guess. I just didn't get the memo that we had as a group changed on this. I know there is no official policy.

 

What I am asking (I guess) is for a least some kind of general consensus: acceptable to help? or not?

 

Maybe this thread can be used in the future as a reference....

 

Why don't you ask flask, I think she has an opinion or two on the subject.

 

Jim

[+Chrysalides]

I don't think posting the solution in a forum is acceptable. If anyone wants to help out the poster, they should e-mail them directly instead.

[+flask]

 

Why don't you ask flask, I think she has an opinion or two on the subject.

 

Jim

 

it's my advice column: ask flask!

 

"everyone is entitled to my opinion"

 

do you like my slogan?

 

general advice: fine

collective head-scratching: fine

division of labor: fine

private exchange of heavy hints or solutions: none of my business

specific advice posted here: not fine

public posting of solutions: so far out of fine that it deserves its own circle of hell.

 

 

and now, here's a favorite from my advice column:

 

 

Dear flask:

 

My male doberman is a wuss. How can I butch him up so my female will like him?

 

Get him a spiked collar. Not just a studded one, a spiked one. And nothing less than black will do in terms of color. For heaven's sake, stop letting him watch girl movies. You know what I'm talking about. Reward him when he snarls. Ignore him when he brings presents, no matter how thoughtful.

 

The alternative is to find a bitch who is interested in a dog who treats her nicely. It's up to you.

[+sbell111]

It has been long standing tradition on this forum to not offer help in solving specific puzzles on puzzle caches. At least it used to be rather well known. Be friendly but advise the question asker to the cache owner....that was was the standard answer.

 

However, the last 4 times I offered that advice, the next 4 or 5 forum participants come along and give either offbeat or rather direct hints to solve the puzzle. Thats fine I guess. I just didn't get the memo that we had as a group changed on this. I know there is no official policy.

 

What I am asking (I guess) is for a least some kind of general consensus: acceptable to help? or not?

 

Maybe this thread can be used in the future as a reference....

I agree that it's somewhat unseemly to give too much information about a specific puzzle cache. However, I think that it's OK to discuss generic issues.

 

For instance, explaining how to solve GC12345 is out, while describing how a hill cipher works and can be broken is in.

[+sbell111]

It has been long standing tradition on this forum to not offer help in solving specific puzzles on puzzle caches. At least it used to be rather well known. Be friendly but advise the question asker to the cache owner....that was was the standard answer.

 

However, the last 4 times I offered that advice, the next 4 or 5 forum participants come along and give either offbeat or rather direct hints to solve the puzzle. Thats fine I guess. I just didn't get the memo that we had as a group changed on this. I know there is no official policy.

 

What I am asking (I guess) is for a least some kind of general consensus: acceptable to help? or not?

 

Maybe this thread can be used in the future as a reference....

 

It all depends on what the person who needs help and the the helper in question feel is right and/or okay. If you think that they should do it them selves it is one thing. But if the persoin has tried several times and still cannot get it even though they have tried, and contacted the owner, then I believe it is a matter of what the two people in question think is right to do or okay for a/some situation(s). If thety want to give out a hint, I do not belive that it is anybody else's business except for those two people, unless the owner has specifically requested that no hints be given out. Even then I believe it is a matter of ethics, morals, and standards concerning only those people. If they gone to the owner and still cannot solve it, even with the help of the owner(s), then I believe it is a matter of what the solver thinks can and should be done. I have done this same thing several times, in fact. I like puzzles, but sometimes you just can't solve them and you need multiple source for help. In those instnces I believe that I should insert this bit. If you do it, then just be prepared for the consequences that will follow. Also read this. "We be live that man (or woman) shall be punished for their own sins, and not for (insert name(s) here)'s transgression."

Here is what I think is/should be allowed: If you are doing it in a group, or if the owner or someone else who has solved it is present, and is helping people who just can't solve it.

 

Here is what I think is/should not be allowed:

Basically just giving a major hint out or downright giving people the solution, especially if the owner has said not to give any hints(unless the person cannot get to that particular meeting because of some kind of conflict that can't be resolved easily, or unless the owner won't mind because several hints have already been given out, etc.).

I think I have given a pretty good explanation concerning this particular topic. Remember: It is your standards/morals and ethics that count in the end. If someone does something wrong, and you don't know about it, and you happen to carry out/on whatever it is that is not allowed, you will not receive any punishment IF you are doing it purely out of the goodness of your heart towards something or someone. It will be them that receives the punishment.

 

Thanks, and I hope that I made this a little more clear and distinguishable to everyone. Have a great day. May you choose wisely. gwf[][]

I think that you missed that StarBrand was wanting our opinion about posting hints in the forums, not about private conversations or email. (I also wonder how many people in these forums have read (or even heard of) The Pearl of Great Price.)

Edited March 6, 2009 by sbell111

[+BlueDeuce]

I agree that it's somewhat unseemly to give too much information about a specific puzzle cache. However, I think that it's OK to discuss generic issues.

 

For instance, explaining how to solve GC12345 is out, while describing how a hill cipher works and can be broken is in.

 

Exactly.

 

 

 

edit: quote fix.

Edited March 6, 2009 by BlueDeuce

[CoyoteRed]

However, the last 4 times I offered that advice, the next 4 or 5 forum participants come along and give either offbeat or rather direct hints to solve the puzzle.

Not cool.

 

Sometimes part of the puzzle is to figure out the type of cipher or puzzle to begin with. Discussing a puzzle in these forums creates a permanent record. If discussing specific puzzles were commonplace then the first thing a person is to do when attempting to solve a puzzle is do a search here on the forums.

 

I know there is no official policy.

I would think wouldn't have to be.

 

I agree with some of the above post posters. Discussing a particular cache in a public forum is not cool. Discussing the mechanics of how to solve or crack a type of puzzle or cipher is okay--just don't use a particular cache puzzle as an example.

[+StarBrand]

I agree that it's somewhat unseemly to give too much information about a specific puzzle cache. However, I think that it's OK to discuss generic issues.

 

For instance, explaining how to solve GC12345 is out, while describing how a hill cipher works and can be broken is in.

 

I completely agree.

 

However - the ones I was talking about did not reference a cache by name but were specific puzzles from a specific caches.

[Dj Storm]

If the difficulty is in solving the puzzle, not in finding it, then I think it's OK to say something like: "That is a Sudoku puzzle, read here how to solve it".

If the puzzle is not so obvious, then I will say something like: "It uses a classical cipher. Read here about classical ciphers, follow the links, it's one of the ciphers described there".

If the puzzle is a tricky one, it might be OK to say something like: "Read the cache description again and again; the owner left several clues hidden in the text."

If the puzzle has a difficulty above 4, or the challenge consist in finding the puzzle, then I give no hints, not even by private message.

[+Renegade Knight]

...What I am asking (I guess) is for a least some kind of general consensus: acceptable to help? or not?

...

Help your caching buddy solve a puzzle? Sure thing.

Help via a Google-able method? Nope, take it off line.

Help a stranger? The person in need of help can contact the cache owner.

Give away the final coords? Nope. They needed to be there and supplying beer as their contribution if nothing else. Then we can both go find it, though maybe they can drive.

[+Renegade Knight]

...Discussing the mechanics of how to solve or crack a type of puzzle or cipher is okay--just don't use a particular cache puzzle as an example.

Agreed as well.

[+cantuland]

Here's a give-away to my puzzle cache. The solution is not obtainable in any way whatsoever except to search for this message and get the coordinates from the forums. So if you see this, you got it made. Here are the coordinates and the only way that you will be able to solve this puzzle: N xxx W xxx.

 

Now isn't that just stupid. Yes, I agree. Don't put your hints and solutions to other people's puzzles in the forums. It's a permanent give away to the public, provided without permission. And if you DO have permission, don't do it anyway. That's stupid. Don't be stupid.

 

For those who want help with my puzzles, I offer lots of help...individually...not to the public at large. I have experienced seeing the final coordinates to one of my geocaches posted on some forums, not this one, and it has always struck a nerve, mainly because someone else posted the coords in a place that is now permanent and public record. And for those who want to search the internet for those coordinates, that puzzle is now archived, so don't waste your time.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

...What I am asking (I guess) is for a least some kind of general consensus: acceptable to help? or not?

...

 

Help a stranger? The person in need of help can contact the cache owner.

 

 

I disagree with this one. Helping a stranger (are other geocachers really strangers?) could lead to a future geocaching buddy.

[AZcachemeister]

 

general advice: fine

collective head-scratching: fine

division of labor: fine

private exchange of heavy hints or solutions: none of my business

specific advice posted here: not fine

public posting of solutions: so far out of fine that it deserves its own circle of hell.

 

 

That about covers it...but...

 

...What I am asking (I guess) is for a least some kind of general consensus: acceptable to help? or not?

...

Help your caching buddy solve a puzzle? Sure thing.

Help via a Google-able method? Nope, take it off line.

Help a stranger? The person in need of help can contact the cache owner.

Give away the final coords? Nope. They needed to be there and supplying beer as their contribution if nothing else. Then we can both go find it, though maybe they can drive.

 

Hopefully they can help me sign it as well...I'll hold the pen, you move my hand.

 

...What I am asking (I guess) is for a least some kind of general consensus: acceptable to help? or not?

...

 

Help a stranger? The person in need of help can contact the cache owner.

 

 

I disagree with this one. Helping a stranger (are other geocachers really strangers?) could lead to a future geocaching buddy.

 

What I think RK is intending here is that if someone in Wisconsin asks for help, I have little chance in joining in on the find, so I'm going to refer them back to the CO. I may give general hints.

[+StarBrand]

Interesting how there seems to be quite a few varying opinions on just how much of a hint something like this is: "Oh that is an xxxxx type puzzle - go here for help"

 

To me - figuring out what type of puzzle it is - that is (or should be) a big part of the challenge of many of these puzzles and that type of hint is near a dead giveaway.

 

I will be sticking to my standard answer......as it is still my belief that puzzles should not be solved in a group setting.