Challenge caches-

[+Corp Of Discovery]

This is what the guidelines say about them:

 

Mystery or Puzzle Caches

Challenge caches incorporate special logging requirements and are listed as Mystery/Puzzle caches. Typically they require the seeker to have previously met a reasonable geocaching-related qualification (Waymarking and Wherigo qualify too, of course) such as first finding a cache in every county in your state. If you are thinking of creating such a cache, please include a note to the reviewer demonstrating either that you have met the challenge yourself, or that a substantial number of other geocachers would be able to do so.

 

In addition to that I was informed that:

 

A- one couldn't withhold coordinates until proof of completion was submitted but had to either list the cache with the actual coordinates or use a puzzle for people to solve.

 

and

 

B- only one type of challenge per state was allowed (altho this one may have only been in reference to DeLorme and all county challenges).

 

Was I misinformed, did I interpret what I was told wrong or have they changed? Also- are there any other such rules regarding them?

[knowschad]

A: Correct that you can't email the coordinates after the challenge has been met.

 

B: I don't know. I've never heard of that. Did you get that from your reviewer, or just word of mouth?

[+Renegade Knight]

A: Correct that you can't email the coordinates after the challenge has been met...

 

Responding to the policy, not you in particular.

 

That's bass ackwards. Why should you get the coords for a cache that you haven't yet done what you need to do to find?

 

It seems like a simple way to take an ALR (aka challenge) and make into a AWF (additional work to find) which puzzles actually are. If they are going to list them as a puzzle, let folks give out coords when the time comes they are desered. It also solves the entire problem with ALR.

[+tozainamboku]

There are many hidden guidelines (or interpretations of guidelines). My understanding it that the reviewers have their own forum where these are discussed and that Groundspeak often provides guidance to the reviewers here. I understand why some of what is discussed there has to be treated with confidentiality, however it does lead to a lot of confusion to us regular geocaches who need to guess at what the guidelines really mean. Those of us who hang out in the forums have an advantage. We get to read the complaints from individuals whose caches were denied because they ran into a hidden guideline (or an interpretation of the guidelines). Sometime a reviewer or Groundspeak lackey will post a clarification in these threads. Most individuals have only what gets published in the guidelines to go on.

 

Early challenges (Delorme challenges, county challenges) were granted an exception to the guideline that you couldn't require a cacher to email to get the final coordinates for a puzzle. In order to limit the use of this exception, reviewers were likely instructed to limit the number of these challenges (perhaps to one per state). When the guidelines were changed to allow ALR caches and have them listed as unknown, that provided the avenue for creating a whole new class of challenges. Reviewers began to accept all kinds of challenges, but they required that coordinates be given on the cache page page (or solvable like any other puzzle). Emailing for the final coordinates was not allowed. Then the guidelines were changed again and ALRs were no longer allowed. An exception was made for challenge caches. The guideline for these types of caches have changed so much in recent months that I have no idea what they are. If the reviewers have received guidance from Groundspeak that clarifies this perhaps they could share. My guess is that they are simply continuing with the interpretation in effect prior to the most recent guideline changes. That interpretation made sense under the prior ALR guideline. I think if you want to continue it with the new guideline it needs to be spelled out.

Edited July 10, 2009 by tozainamboku

[+Hemlock]

A- one couldn't withhold coordinates until proof of completion was submitted but had to either list the cache with the actual coordinates or use a puzzle for people to solve.

The guidelines also say:

Mystery or Puzzle Caches

The "catch-all" of cache types, this form of cache often involves complicated puzzles that you will first need to solve in order to determine the coordinates. The information needed to solve the puzzle must be available to the general caching community and the puzzle should be solvable from the information provided on the cache page. For example, a puzzle that requires research on public websites in order to determine the coordinates may be acceptable, while a puzzle that requires sending an email to the cache owner with the solution in order to obtain the coordinates may not be.

We've been instructed not to allow any puzzles or challenges that require emailing of coordinates to the finders, with the exception of DeLorme and County Challenges.

 

B- only one type of challenge per state was allowed (altho this one may have only been in reference to DeLorme and all county challenges).

You are correct. That only applies to DeLorme and County Challenges.

[+Corp Of Discovery]

Thanks for the clarification Hemlock. I have a few additional questions:

 

1- What do we do if we see a cache that does not follow the email of coordinate guidelines published?

 

2- What is/was the cutoff date (if any) for such caches and/or are older ones that are not DeLorme/All county ones grandfathered?

 

3- Are there any other rules/guidelines we should be aware of?

 

I see that I've been the victim of a forum burp- could the two separate threads be merged?

[+OReviewer]

1- What do we do if we see a cache that does not follow the email of coordinate guidelines published?

 

2- What is/was the cutoff date (if any) for such caches and/or are older ones that are not DeLorme/All county ones grandfathered?

 

3- Are there any other rules/guidelines we should be aware of?

 

1 - E-mail the reviewer that published it and point out the problem. It happens, we all miss things at times.

 

2 - I honestly don't remember.

 

3 - Challenges should be level for everyone? Making cacher X have to do 3 things to complete it while making cacher Y have to do 8 things probably would not be published. This is not the same as cacher x has already completed some of the requirements before publication. That is allowed.

[+paleolith]

1- What do we do if we see a cache that does not follow the email of coordinate guidelines published?

Assume that the reviewer granted an exception, unless you have reason to believe otherwise.

2- What is/was the cutoff date (if any) for such caches and/or are older ones that are not DeLorme/All county ones grandfathered?

It doesn't matter. Either it was published before the restriction, or the reviewer granted an exception. And remember that another guideline is that exceptions do not create precedents.

3- Are there any other rules/guidelines we should be aware of?

If you submit a challenge based on a fixed list of caches, you MIGHT be asked not to use the word "challenge" in the cache name. This restriction has never been completely clarified AFAIK, and I also don't know if it's even still in place. At least at one time, the word "challenge" was reserved for ... well, that's the part I never got clear, but DeLorme/county/etc type challenges, or perhaps any challenge where the seeker picks a set of caches to meet the challenge criteria, as opposed to finding a specific list of caches.

 

Edward