Whats it take to become a professional surveyor?

[Cracker.]

I am thinking of a career change.....

 

I've always had an interest in topography, and seeing whats over the next hill, or around the bend ever since I was a kid.

I've always had an interest in maps and geography.

I was pretty good in math in high school, although Pre-Calc really scared me. (I think that was due mostly to the actual teacher, though...)

 

And now with dabbling in Caching and BM-ing, I'm wondering what makes a good surveyor, and type of schooling it takes, as well as generally what the job descriptions are like....

 

Any insight or links on more info would be appreciated...

 

Thanx guys!!

 

Art

 

www.yankeetoys.org

www.BudBuilt.com

www.pirate4x4.com

[Z15]

Here you go,Surveying

[DaveD]

Art -- I've worked with the surveying community, marine, land, engineering, cadastral and geodetic for 37 years and as a group you could not ask to find a finer group of professionals. Read the materials that elcamino pointed you to and then if you're still interested get in touch with your states surveying association, and the American Congress on Surveying and Mapping (ACSM) www.acsm.net

 

NEW YORK STATE ASSOCIATION OF PROFESSIONAL LAND SURVEYORS

146 Washington Avenue, Albany, NY 12210-2203

Executive Director: Ann Marie Schreiber, 518/432-4046, 518-432-4055 fax

Email: amschreiber@nysapls.net

Internet: www.nysapls.net

[survey tech]

There is a major distinction between being a Professional Land Surveyor and being a field or office technician, like myself, working in the land surveying and/or civil engineering industry. The former requires completion of a rigorous process covering several years, combining education, experience and testing, to obtain the status of a licensed professional. The latter, however, like most jobs, is open and available to anyone with a positive attitude, a genuine interest and the willingness to learn. Most employers in surveying and engineering advertise openings in their local newspaper and are very often willing to consider individuals with the aforementioned qualities, who have no surveying experience, for entry level positions. Many outstanding men have indeed worked their way up through the surveying profession, in fact, 3 of the 4 faces on Mount Rushmore became surveyors on their way to becoming Presidents.

[WhistlingWind]

Beer. I think it takes beer (and a sense of humor):

 

A number of years ago I hired a local surveyor to find an important property corner... which was off in the forest and down the side of a hill. He was an older gentlemen with a 20-something assistant. Starting at an iron pipe on one end of the line, they traversed about 700' over difficult terrain and arrived at where the

pipe marking that corner should be. But no iron pipe, the area was at the foot of a small slide and the area looked generally unstable. He had his assistant dig down 2 feet but still nothing. They fired up the metal detector and a few minutes later he

had a strong indication a few feet away.

 

The assistant dug again -- nothing at 1' down -- nothing at 2 feet and then he hit something -- a Hamms beer can. "Sorry, man" , I said. "No, it's good," the surveyor said, "that means a surveyor has been here. We're close!"

 

We eventually did the pipe a few feet away, displaced by the slide.

 

Whistling Wind

[DaveD]

Surveyors call it "observing fluid."

[Z15]

I worked for 31 years as a survey technician for the Michigan DOT. I had no formal education beyond HS except for DOT sponsored courses at NMU and Lansing CC. I started as a Engineering Aide on highway construction projects and in 1972 took a job on one of the statewide design survey crews. Back then all you needed was knowledge of math (geometry and trig) and you could handle the job. It was good job but always on the road, rarely close to home. We also had 4 and 5 man crews up until John Engler became governor. Over the 90's they eliminated many of the tech jobs. When I took early retirement (tip-save money when young,I did)last fall (another Engler get rid of state employee move) I was the only tech cover the whole UP of Michigan. I had 1999 K2500 suburban, 3 Leica 500 GPS receivers, 1 Wild T2, a Geodimeter 600, Dell Latitude PC and had to work alone most of the time. In the summer we would get student interns from MTU or Ferris to help out, mostly engineers who hated surveying. But often in the other months I was chasing GPS receivers all day long. Thank god NGS came out with OPUS, that made it easier for me as it eliminated hours of processing. I had a hard time convincing 2 of the 3 PS's I had to answer to though. Two of them thought that anything as easy as OPUS had to be no good and for almost a year would process all of my work to compare it to OPUS, the other is now the head man in the region. After several jobs and many hours of leaning the Leica software, they came up with the same answers as OPUS.

 

I would have liked to continue as a survey tech but working in govt is like being in the army. We even had a motto, "why do it right when we can do it wrong". All the surveyors who work in MDOT have engineers as boss's (thats another storym I should write a book?).

 

Maybe NGS/USGS is a better place to work but after talking with one of their level party recon guys in 1996, sounds like the motel life for them also. Their state adviser pulled the pin early too but his wife works (lawyer).

 

I spoke with a former PS I worked with and he tells me the new people they hired all had to have a BS in surveying even for the entry level job, they don't want specialized technicians in the MDOT. Where they used to have 1 PS and 5 techs, then now have 5 PS's.

 

Well thats enough complaining about working in government. Think 2x about ever working in a government job, they will sell you down the river and management is always worried about someone going postal and make you attend all kinds of training, violence in the work place, sexual harassment, 7 steps, and what not.

 

[This message was edited by elcamino on May 09, 2003 at 05:42 AM.]

[DaveD]

I've been with NGS for almost 32 years, before that 3 years as an Army surveyor and 2 years with a private surveying company. While I certainly have my gripes about government work, I still can't believe they pay me to do this job. I worked on triangulation and astronomic field parties for several years, and it certainly was trailer park to trailer park, or motel to motel for months without end. The vast majority of guys loved the life. If you didn't, you didn't stay very long. Being a small part of the oldest scientfic agency in the Federal government, and inheriting the legacy that so many brilliant and dedicated professionals have passed down is very humbling. Anyone who would like to view some of the history of NGS (Survey of the Coast - 1807, Coast Survey - 1836, U.S. Coast & Geodetic Survey- 1878, NGS - 1970) should check out the images at -- http://www.photolib.noaa.gov/historic/c&gs/geodesy.htm

[+Bloencustoms]

It seems like here in Louisiana, surveyors tend to be a group of "Tough guys". I worked for four years as an instrument man for a local surveyor and saw many feats of strength and endurance. The responses to advice were my favorite. "Hey, man. You're standing in a fire ant hill, they're all over your legs!" the response is "I know." Or, "Hey, man. That's poison ivy you're leaning against!" Response, "Yep." or "Poison ivy? I eat that $h17!"

 

Or, "Just shut up and get in that manhole, I need to know the elevation of the pipe so we know which way the doot flows."

 

Or, "Put some duct tape on that and keep cutting line, it'll stop bleeding eventually."

 

Or, "Dey takin' pitchers o' y'all! Dey takin' pitchers o' all y'all!"

 

Or, "Look at that! That guy's got a solid gold spinning top!" (plumb bob)

 

Just some of the hilarious quote I heard while working on a survey crew.

 

"Searching with my good eye closed"

[+Kewaneh & Shark]

Having an intrest in surveying is a good start to becoming a surveyor. There are many people who just stumble into the technical aspects of it - either as a chainman or draftsman - and only go through the motions, without much of a care as what they are actually doing. It's just a job. Others fall in love with the job and it becomes life for them.

 

Your question asks what it takes to become 'a good surveyor'. You also ask about the schooling. I think it should be said that 'good surveying' and 'schooling' don't always go hand in hand. (I think it's probably that way with many professions.) As SurveyTech has said, there is a difference between a Professionally Licensed Land Surveyor and a Land Surveying Technician. I have known many PLS's who really weren't 'that good', and I've known many techs who could run circles around many PLS's. The relationship is similar to Doctors & Nurses: the Doctors make the decisions and get the glory, but the Nurses get the job done, and often know as much as (and sometimes more than) the Doctors.

 

Assuming you are asking about becoming a Licensed Surveyor, the technical and legal requirements vary from state to state, but they are generally similar. Some states require a degree from a four-year university, but most do not and will accept experience alone as meeting the requirements to become licensed. However, some schooling does help when it comes to taking the actual certification and licensing exams. All states have an experience requirement. Most states require at least eight years (some require more) of practical experience before sitting for the exams.

 

There are two exams that are necessary to take: the F.L.S. (Fundamentals of Land Surveying) and the P.L.S. (Professional Land Surveyor). The FLS is taken prior to the PLS. The FLS is an eight-hour nationally-based exam that 'certifies' the person as a land surveyor. It is NOT a license. The holder's official designation is L.S.I.T. - 'Land Surveyor in Training' - and while they are certified to work as surveyors, they are required to work as subordinates to, and under the supervision of a Licensed Land Surveyor. Many technicians are LSIT's, but an LSIT certificate is not required to be a technician. I do presently hold an LSIT certificate.

 

The PLS exam is usually a mix of a national-based exam and a state-based exam, and for obvious reasons, is much more difficult. California's PLS exam is a ten-hour, two-day exam. It is comprised of a six-hour, national portion on the first day, and a four-hour, state-based portion on the second. This year, the four-hour portion was only four questions. I could have used eight. I am presently awaiting the results of that exam.

 

It has already been said that the general requrements for the job are basic math and a willingness to do it. Licensure requires a bit more, and most two and four-year school programs cover most of the technical aspects of the profession. On the job experience makes it all work. Subjects that are covered by most school programs, and that can be seen on the professional exams can include, but are not limited to: measurement theory and errors, vertical and horizontal measurement proceedures, the equipment, their operations and field proceedures, mapping, geographic information systems, public lands surveys, photogrammetry, astronomical observations, satellite and inertial survering systems (GPS), applied mathmatics, and surveying history. Again, schooling is not required for most states, but it does help.

 

Hope this helps answer your questions and doesn't scare (or bore) you too much. Here's a few more links if you're still curious.

 

California State University Fresno - Geomatics Program

http://www.csufresno.edu/geomatics/

 

California Land Surveyor's Association

http://www.ca-surveyors.org/

 

California Board of Registration

http://www.dca.ca.gov/pels/

 

Keep on Caching!

- Kewaneh