I want to bury a cache....

[ashnikes]

in a plastic turtle self enclosed sandbox.

 

What are the rules on this? I will not be using any tools to do so, but my hands, and not disturbing any of mother natures natural earth, since this hide is in an enclosed plastic turtle, it should not be encouraging other people to bury caches unless they like the idea of burying them in a sandbox.

 

the idea behind this cache,

 

I want to make an archeological dig, for one of my next caches, and i want people to have to "dig up" with their hands, some large objects to include the cache container from a sandbox.

 

all questions comments, concerns, will be considered,

 

negative spiteful comments will be laughed at.

 

and the world keeps spinning.

[+Ms.Scrabbler]

My first thought is all sandboxes unless covered are used as outdoor kitty litter

[Pup Patrol]

I don't know where you would plan to locate this sandbox, but if you did it near where I live, it would quickly be filled with deposits from the neighbourhood cats, dogs and raccoons.

 

Knowing what I've seen of human behaviour, I wouldn't be surprised if people also used it as a litterbox, or as a used needle/condom/broken glass depository.

 

Personally, I would be completely unwilling to dig around in sand, not knowing what could be in there. I would just take a look at the cache page where you describe the need to dig in a sandbox, and not bother adding the cache to my to-do list.

Edited July 12, 2010 by Pup Patrol

[ashnikes]

Hmm....

So therefore i need to provide gloves at GZ,

make sure it has a cover so critters do not get in,

and frequently "maintain" it by sifting through the sand for unwanted objects.

 

all very good suggestions,

[Andronicus]

I wouldn't have a problem with the digging aspect.

 

How will you make sure the cover stayes on? I have seen alot of sand box covers blown off by the wind.

 

Also, what happens when muggles find a sand box in the middle of the forest (or where ever it is)?

[+LovellbirdAndScatter]

Doesn't this rule apply here???

 

"Caches may be quickly archived if we see the following (which is not exhaustive):

 

Caches that are buried. If a shovel, trowel or other "pointy" object is used to dig, whether in order to hide or to find the cache, then it is not appropriate."

[+Mark+Karen]

I personally think it's a bad idea. IMO caches should be easily accessible by moving no more than a few things aside. I also think it counts as being "buried" even though you could argue the container itself isn't buried.

[+JL_HSTRE]

From the guidelines:

 

Off-Limit (Physical) Caches

...

Caches may be quickly archived if we see the following (which is not exhaustive):

...

Caches that are buried. If a shovel, trowel or other "pointy" object is used to dig, whether in order to hide or to find the cache, then it is not appropriate.

 

Yes, in soft sand you could place the cache and retrieve the cache with your hands thus not requring a shovel but this seems like an attempt to circumvent the rules. The cache is still buried.

 

You can cover a cache container with natural camoflague such as pine needles, moss, palm fronds, or logs especially if you place a container in a pre-existing depression in the ground. But covering it with dirt, sand, or similiar is disallowed.

 

Fake sprinkler heads are the closest thing I've seen to acceptably pushing the boundries of this rule, probably due to their small size.

Edited July 12, 2010 by joshism

[+Mark+Karen]

Although you do wonder if some of these "pre-existing" depressions were pre-existing at all!

[GOF's Sock Puppet]

I don't think we are looking at a violation here. The sandbox is a container so the challenge is to find the log in the container. Just list it as a large.

 

So where are you going to put this thing?

[+K T S]

Sounds like a fun hide. I love it when cachers put time into the caches to add a theme or story, and your archeology dig idea is a clever one. Ignore the nattering nabobs of negativism and go for it.

[knowschad]

Doesn't this rule apply here???

 

"Caches may be quickly archived if we see the following (which is not exhaustive):

 

Caches that are buried. If a shovel, trowel or other "pointy" object is used to dig, whether in order to hide or to find the cache, then it is not appropriate."

Not really, in a case like this. Sand can just be brushed away with the hand. Besides, a sandbox is made for "digging" in. You won't find a land manager that has an issue with digging in a sandbox, I'm sure.

[Andronicus]

I wouldn't have a problem with the digging aspect.

 

How will you make sure the cover stayes on? I have seen alot of sand box covers blown off by the wind.

 

Also, what happens when muggles find a sand box in the middle of the forest (or where ever it is)?

I have an anwer to one of my own questions:

How will you make sure the cover stayes on? You could put, say, 4 beaners on the edges of the lid.

 

To talk a bit more on the digging issue. If the sand box is yours, you have permission to leave it where ever it is going to be, and the sand is yours, I can not immagine a scenario where there would be a problem.

 

I don't know where you would plan to locate this sandbox, but if you did it near where I live, it would quickly be filled with deposits from the neighbourhood cats, dogs and raccoons.

That is what the lid is for.

Knowing what I've seen of human behaviour, I wouldn't be surprised if people also used it as a litterbox, or as a used needle/condom/broken glass depository.

I think that that is a little rediculous. No one has an issue with digging in the sand at the beach. There is much more chance that some junkies are going to leave paraphernalia laying around a beach than in a hidden sand box.

Edited July 12, 2010 by Andronicus

[+Castle Mischief]

The only answer you need -----> Check with your reviewer.

[Difficult Run]

It's a creative idea and you're certainly thinking outside the sandbox.

However, the impact of placing this in the middle of the woods would kill any grass or plants underneath it.

 

 

I doubt any land managers are going to approve this on their property.

~ Mitch ~

[+Chrysalides]

The only answer you need -----> Check with your reviewer.

True - but that won't get him the attention he wants, as is evident by his choice of words in the post.

 

Still, it is an interesting one. Going with the whole spirit of the guidelines thing, I wouldn't have a problem with that, but then again, I'm neither Jeremy Irish nor a reviewer, so that counts for squat.

 

Now, whether he can get permission to place a large plastic sandbox turtle out there somewhere...

[+buttaskotch]

I wouldn't have a problem with the digging aspect.

 

How will you make sure the cover stayes on? I have seen alot of sand box covers blown off by the wind.

 

Also, what happens when muggles find a sand box in the middle of the forest (or where ever it is)?

I have an anwer to one of my own questions:

How will you make sure the cover stayes on? You could put, say, 4 beaners on the edges of the lid.

 

To talk a bit more on the digging issue. If the sand box is yours, you have permission to leave it where ever it is going to be, and the sand is yours, I can not immagine a scenario where there would be a problem.

 

I don't know where you would plan to locate this sandbox, but if you did it near where I live, it would quickly be filled with deposits from the neighbourhood cats, dogs and raccoons.

That is what the lid is for.

Knowing what I've seen of human behaviour, I wouldn't be surprised if people also used it as a litterbox, or as a used needle/condom/broken glass depository.

I think that that is a little rediculous. No one has an issue with digging in the sand at the beach. There is much more chance that some junkies are going to leave paraphernalia laying around a beach than in a hidden sand box.

Around here the beaches are wide open a bit hard for junkies to shoot up in the wide open with all to see. Better done in a park area with less eyes on them.

[+roziecakes]

Doesn't this rule apply here???

 

"Caches may be quickly archived if we see the following (which is not exhaustive):

 

Caches that are buried. If a shovel, trowel or other "pointy" object is used to dig, whether in order to hide or to find the cache, then it is not appropriate."

 

Actually, the buried guideline doesn't apply here, because he's setting a small sandbox somewhere and putting the cache container in the sandbox, so the ground is not being dug into. That's what the guideline applies to.

 

I do think though, that this cache would be highly attractive to muggles, of all sorts, animal and human; and may be somewhat of a pain in the neck to maintain for the cache owner, but if he is willing to put in the maintenance, and willing to accept that it may be stolen by muggles or defecated in by wildlife, then I personally don't see a problem with it.

 

The only guideline I would see being called into question is the cache permenance guideline, since caches are supposed to be placed to last, which is why many of them are cammoed and hidden from view; but I could be stretching it here. Depending on where it's placed, it could be fine.

[+roziecakes]

It's a creative idea and you're certainly thinking outside the sandbox.

However, the impact of placing this in the middle of the woods would kill any grass or plants underneath it.

 

 

That's a good point; that would be a concern of mine as well, if I were a landowner.

[7rxc]

It's a creative idea and you're certainly thinking outside the sandbox.

However, the impact of placing this in the middle of the woods would kill any grass or plants underneath it.

 

 

I doubt any land managers are going to approve this on their property.

~ Mitch ~

 

Some southern US land managers would welcome something that would keep the sand CLEAN...

possibly... not to mention finders. Hopefully that kid is 'optional' equipment. Anyone know if the 'playground ' or 'playground equipment' guidelines might apply?

 

Doug 7rxc

[+DragonsWest]

[Pup Patrol]

I don't know where you would plan to locate this sandbox, but if you did it near where I live, it would quickly be filled with deposits from the neighbourhood cats, dogs and raccoons.

That is what the lid is for.

Assuming the lid stays on. You do realize that raccoons have great dexterity and ability when it comes to opening latched garbage cans?

Knowing what I've seen of human behaviour, I wouldn't be surprised if people also used it as a litterbox, or as a used needle/condom/broken glass depository.

I think that that is a little rediculous. No one has an issue with digging in the sand at the beach. There is much more chance that some junkies are going to leave paraphernalia laying around a beach than in a hidden sand box.

Nope, not ridiculous at all. You would know what I was talking about if you lived in that apartment building I did, years ago. The children's sand boxes were always littered with broken liquor and beer bottles, and who knows what else.

 

Not sure what Andronicus' problem is, but I was just trying to give some feedback based on my personal experiences. Not meant to be "negative" but to be honest.

[+larryc43230]

A couple of years ago, there was a cute cache (now archived) hidden in my area with a Smurf theme. The cache consisted of a fairly large cooler hidden in the woods. Inside the cooler were several inches of a non-toxic bright blue powder (that rinsed off with water), and buried in the blue powder was a bison tube with a log sheet. It took a while to dig out the bison tube, and when you were done your hands looked like Smurf hands.

 

It was a lot of fun while it lasted, and the environmental impact was about the same as an ammo box.

 

--Larry

[Andronicus]

I don't know where you would plan to locate this sandbox, but if you did it near where I live, it would quickly be filled with deposits from the neighbourhood cats, dogs and raccoons.

That is what the lid is for.

Assuming the lid stays on. You do realize that raccoons have great dexterity and ability when it comes to opening latched garbage cans?

Knowing what I've seen of human behaviour, I wouldn't be surprised if people also used it as a litterbox, or as a used needle/condom/broken glass depository.

I think that that is a little rediculous. No one has an issue with digging in the sand at the beach. There is much more chance that some junkies are going to leave paraphernalia laying around a beach than in a hidden sand box.

Nope, not ridiculous at all. You would know what I was talking about if you lived in that apartment building I did, years ago. The children's sand boxes were always littered with broken liquor and beer bottles, and who knows what else.

 

Not sure what Andronicus' problem is, but I was just trying to give some feedback based on my personal experiences. Not meant to be "negative" but to be honest.

One problem that Andronicus has is that he can't spell (so far this forum does not have a spell checker). The other is a uncanny ability to quickly compare simmilar things/situations and determin which one is of more significants in the given situation.

 

I don't think the sand box in question will be behind a apartment complex in Parramore.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Put it on your own property and I can't see a problem.

 

A local cacher has one of these sandbox turtles (without the sand, thankfully) in his front yard as a TB hotel and it's been well-visited for years.

 

I don't see where adding sand does any more than make it messy and a PITA for visitors to wipe their hands, but I don't think that it violates any buried cache prohibition.

 

Anyone want to bet that ashnikes has no intention of doing this but figured the no-burying guideline would get some attention?

[+jenny08_1015]

There's a cache in Omaha in a front yard in which there are a handful of golf balls in an area of sand. You don't have to dig, just pick up the golf balls. The cache is a matchstick container attached to one of the golf balls.

 

But I think an archeological dig cache sounds really fun! Good idea, Ash!

[+Ms.Scrabbler]

If Andronicus would be more succinct when posting, responding would be easy. However this seems to be a trend with him for what ever reason. I'm sure we all have our guesses.

 

How simple it would have been to state where he intended to place the cache.

[+DragonsWest]

Put it on your own property and I can't see a problem.

 

A local cacher has one of these sandbox turtles (without the sand, thankfully) in his front yard as a TB hotel and it's been well-visited for years.

 

I don't see where adding sand does any more than make it messy and a PITA for visitors to wipe their hands, but I don't think that it violates any buried cache prohibition.

 

Anyone want to bet that ashnikes has no intention of doing this but figured the no-burying guideline would get some attention?

 

Bolded is a good consideration, if you recall the properties of sand - it will get everywhere, in the cache, in the log, in any swag/trackables and whatever accounts for weather-proofing seal the container(s) have.

 

I still have sand in my shoes from two days ago, I think it feeds on my socks, turning them into more sand.

[+uxorious]

Anyone want to bet that ashnikes has no intention of doing this but figured the no-burying guideline would get some attention?

 

I'm not too sure about that. Ashnikes' latest posts seem to feel like he is trying to get along here on the forums. Maybe it is just me, but the last couple days he has sounded more mature, and less obnoxious.

 

As to the original question, I would think if you can get permission to place the sandbox, the rest of the problems could be worked out. As someone else said, the sandbox and the sand in it are your cache container. So unless you plan on burying the sandbox, the rule against burying would not apply.

[+TomToad]

 

Anyone want to bet that ashnikes has no intention of doing this but figured the no-burying guideline would get some attention?

 

Actually, a while back he talked about recycling tupperware, and many of his caches are recycled tupperware. He talked about having a cache inside a building, but it was too close to another cache. Someone mentioned putting the cache elsewhere and having the building as a virtual waypoint. He put up the cache, and entering the building is now added as a suggestion. He then talked about putting a furry cache into a hollow of a tree. That one was just published.

 

I think in a few days, we'll be seeing a sandbox somewhere out in the woods.

[Andronicus]

If Andronicus would be more succinct when posting, responding would be easy. However this seems to be a trend with him for what ever reason. I'm sure we all have our guesses.

 

How simple it would have been to state where he intended to place the cache.

Well, since I am not placing that cache anywhere (the OP was ashnikes), it is only natural that I would not have stated shere I intended to place the cache. It is just common sence that a large cache like that would not be behind an appartment in a bad area of town.

[+Ms.Scrabbler]

If Andronicus would be more succinct when posting, responding would be easy. However this seems to be a trend with him for what ever reason. I'm sure we all have our guesses.

 

How simple it would have been to state where he intended to place the cache.

Well, since I am not placing that cache anywhere (the OP was ashnikes), it is only natural that I would not have stated shere I intended to place the cache. It is just common sence that a large cache like that would not be behind an appartment in a bad area of town.

Sorry, got the wrong name.

[+Chrysalides]

Sand is hazardous stuff, you know. Just read the warning label here.

 

At this point I'd make some jokes about lawyers, but I don't want the trailer park after me...

[Skippermark]

On first glance, it would seem like it would be published, but as noted, check with your local reviewer. A friend hid a similar cache, and finders had "dig for gold." He carried a large storage bin into the woods and completely filled it with sand.

 

Finders had to use tools to dig through the sand and look for clues to the next stage.

[+BulldogBlitz]

what a coincidence, i want to bury a cacher.

[aniyn]

I like the idea - if you could solve the cat problem that is. Doesn't seem like it violates the guidelines if you use one of the contained sandbox units pictured.

 

Bungie cord the lid on with 3 cords perhaps?

[+NYPaddleCacher]

 

Fake sprinkler heads are the closest thing I've seen to acceptably pushing the boundries of this rule, probably due to their small size.

 

What I don't understand is why so many think that pushing the boundaries of this rule is acceptable. It's almost as if because there are guidelines for placing caches, some take it as a challenge to see how far they can push the boundary without going over it.

[+roziecakes]

 

Fake sprinkler heads are the closest thing I've seen to acceptably pushing the boundries of this rule, probably due to their small size.

 

What I don't understand is why so many think that pushing the boundaries of this rule is acceptable. It's almost as if because there are guidelines for placing caches, some take it as a challenge to see how far they can push the boundary without going over it.

 

I agree! There are scores of different ways to be creative hiding a cache that don't violate the guidelines, or push them!

[+bittsen]

Where is a good facepalm picture when I need one?

[ashnikes]

wow thanks for all the really great suggestions, concerns and comments,

 

I always expect a few silly remarks, cause i make them as well. so no worries.

 

yes i was thinking about placing this cache that is why i was asking,

if it turned out to not get a single person interested, i would not place it, but several people on this thread have said they would like the cache, so i will find a place and submit it to my local reviewer, bless his heart, who will have the last say i guess.

 

As for keeping muggles out.... well....

I will be placing this in a location i will be scouting out throughly, to make sure its secluded enough to not be muggled.

 

as for keeping critters out, i think nymphs idea of carabiners, on four sides is a great idea. and one worth implementing.

 

maintenence would be tough, but not impossible. and i may or may not leave a cat scooper in the sand box for people to not have to get their hands dirty to find the items.

 

the sandbox would be the cache container, and i would fill it with found objects, some of which i already have, from all over the world, that are made to last in the elements, or i would be putting them into containers which could withstand the sand, and heat.

 

I can only fill it half way up with sand to keep it easy, and easy to maintain.

 

since the digging all happens inside the container, there is no significant damage to the environment, except the killed grass like someone mentioned underneath the container. But if the cache is under tree cover, it doesn't matter anyway, because grass has a hard time growing there anyway.

[Andronicus]

...as for keeping critters out, i think nymphs idea of carabiners, on four sides is a great idea. and one worth implementing.

...

Just for the record, it was my suggestion.

 

Sounds like a fun cache. Hope you find a good spot. Next time I am in Orlando (March 2011?) I will take the kids and try to find this one!

[ashnikes]

oops! sorry, you guys have similar colored avatars.

Edited July 13, 2010 by ashnikes