Droid Eris vs GPSr

[+Meags912]

I have been caching with my Droid Eris and it has worked well most times. A few times it is really far off or jumps around a lot. I have been considering getting a GPS for better accuracy but is it going to be that much better than the phone? I was looking at the Garmin 60Csx or the Oregon 450 at two possible options. I understand battery life of a handheld will be better than a phone, but otherwise is it a waste of money?

[+dfx]

a dedicated GPSr will almost certainly have better accuracy. but it may help to know what you consider to be "really far off".

[markstang]

I have proven that my Android (electronic device that communicates with satellites) is accurate within 12 inches.

It seems to me that a device that uses GPS ....is a device that uses GPS.

 

What the device is called (brand name / type) is not really relevant.

 

what works works.

 

The thing that eludes the obvious side benefit is...the phone GPS is a PHONE. You hold it up to your ear while you hone in. Moogle think you are just talking on a phone loitering around.

[+jeepdelfuego]

I have proven that my Android (electronic device that communicates with satellites) is accurate within 12 inches.

It seems to me that a device that uses GPS ....is a device that uses GPS.

 

What the device is called (brand name / type) is not really relevant.

 

what works works.

 

The thing that eludes the obvious side benefit is...the phone GPS is a PHONE. You hold it up to your ear while you hone in. Moogle think you are just talking on a phone loitering around.

 

I am getting my wife an HTC Incredible this week and I am dying to use it for geocaching. The paperless geocaching and on-the-fly logging I am assuming will be great. The HTC Incredible will have huge shoes to fill because my wife and I own three Oregon models. I'll let you guys know how it is fares against my standalone units pretty soon.

[+dfx]

I have proven that my Android (electronic device that communicates with satellites) is accurate within 12 inches.

really? how did you prove that?

It seems to me that a device that uses GPS ....is a device that uses GPS.

yes, but that doesn't mean that they all have the same accuracy, which depends on which GPS chip it uses and what kind of antenna it has.

Edited August 22, 2010 by dfx

[markstang]

Thanks for responding. My brother and I have been talking about this for a week.

 

What we have been talking about are GPS devices and how nice they are (I had an ocean going Mayko boat) I know how nice GPS's are. BUT...these smart phone have JUST now (within two months) jumped into a whole new world that will no doubt put Stand alone GPS devices (not to shame) but certainly cause you to wonder why not just use the phone.

 

I have to stand back and think about my father in regard to new technology. Clueless. The screen on my HTC EVO or incredible are as big as many GPS devises. BUT...the Application program integrates MANY MANY other features on the phone that compliment this phone for GeoCaching like you would not believe. The radar bleeps an expanding circle/ automatically going from miles/1000's of feet/ too feet as you get closer. the GPS numbers read one hundredths of a degree.

 

A phone to talk on/GeoCach on/Take pictures and post on IMMEDIATELY. Walah ...can a GPS stand alone do anything but one thing? I am not Bashing a GPS device, I have one. It is antiquated just like black and white TV. HOWEVER / water proof is nice. Cases are made for phone now for the rugged hiker. But a GPS device is made for it.

[+dfx]

What we have been talking about are GPS devices and how nice they are (I had an ocean going Mayko boat) I know how nice GPS's are. BUT...these smart phone have JUST now (within two months) jumped into a whole new world that will no doubt put Stand alone GPS devices (not to shame) but certainly cause you to wonder why not just use the phone.

for the same reason why you'd choose a digital camera over a phone for making photos. it's a specialized device and therefore will perform the task its designed to do better than an all-in-one device.

[markstang]

Yes Yes...I totally agree. I dislike typing instead of talking because the nuances of conversation are not there.

 

I have a Nikon SLR for pictures. Even though my phone has more resolution now than the camera.

 

I should have commented on the advantage of all in one.

 

Phone/Gps/Computer for Internet/music/flashlight/metal detector/voice recognition typing/time/Google Star Mapping live/ and more.

 

A stand alone is unique. I have a Garmin. very nice!

[+dfx]

I have a Nikon SLR for pictures. Even though my phone has more resolution now than the camera.

but the nikon still makes better pictures, right?

 

I should have commented on the advantage of all in one.

 

Phone/Gps/Computer for Internet/music/flashlight/metal detector/voice recognition typing/time/Google Star Mapping live/ and more.

oh absolutely. i'd also love to be able to look at the full cache description in all its glory (with pictures and everything) on my oregon, or do other "online" stuff from it, or have a proper touchscreen keyboard, or be able to install other applications on it, etc etc.. in fact i used to use a PDA for geocaching which could do all that (except that it wasn't a phone, so wasn't online all the time). but eventually i got fed up with its issues (mostly battery life, sensitivity to water, losing the stylus all the time and general lack of accuracy) and got an oregon. and there hasn't been a moment where i had regretted doing that.

[+make-it-so]

If your phone isn't getting a signal, does the GPS function still work?

[markstang]

Yes.

 

The GPS works just like a stand alone. I suppose that is why I wonder in this case why the GPS could be better. Coordinates are ...well...coordinates.

 

Now Photos...yes indeed. A large lens on my Nikon SLR far surpasses the phones pixel ability. But a GPS is just numbers from the very same satellites. Weather proof is a big big deal though. I can drop my Garmin (rubber) but my rubber wrapped phone (just in case) I would rather not drop. My garmin has no insurance though ...like my phone

[+dfx]

Now Photos...yes indeed. A large lens on my Nikon SLR far surpasses the phones pixel ability. But a GPS is just numbers from the very same satellites.

this is where you are wrong. think of the antenna as the "lens" of the GPS receiver. it makes a lot of difference. if you had the abilty to connect an external antenna to your phone, you'd be able to see that.

 

maybe you're confused about how the GPS system works. the satellites aren't just sending the coordinates of your position down to you, it's way more complex than that.

Edited August 22, 2010 by dfx

[markstang]

ah...Thank you. I think I see what you mean. Mine moves a little till it settles, so does my Garmin.

 

Have you used a Smart phone?

 

A question that might just apply here. I might not receive well inside but outside... BAM! I have had absolutely zero problem ever.

 

I would love to know exactly what moment or use could be different. I understand the antenna could recieve better when an object/cliff/building is in the way of one of the satalites.

 

the smart phone gives you a choice to use Towers for coordinates if you choose.

 

I have not tried that yet since this is my first week of fun Geocaching.

[NordicMan]

Smartphones are indeed great, and in my opinion they will sooner-or-later revolutionize the whole Geocaching experience, but not just yet.

 

Until someone comes out with a Smartphone that is truly rugged, and will run more than a few hours continuous on batteries, AND will work fine in areas there is no/poor phone signal reception, "most dedicated Cachers" will rely on tried & true Standalone GPSr's

[markstang]

I think both work great together. A smart phone works separate as a phone with towers and as a GPS with satellites at the same time. Even in the desert?

 

I have to do more research on my EVO.

It might not have a separate GPS...that would make it useless in the desert or high terrain.

 

Be back in a while, the kids want to play, shop and go Caching.

[+dfx]

Have you used a Smart phone?

 

A question that might just apply here. I might not receive well inside but outside... BAM! I have had absolutely zero problem ever.

 

I would love to know exactly what moment or use could be different. I understand the antenna could recieve better when an object/cliff/building is in the way of one of the satalites.

as i said above, i used to use a PDA, which is roughly the same as a smartphone GPS-wise. it's got a sirfIII chip, which is pretty good, but it has a weak internal antenna. under clear open sky it's very accurate, under tree cover not so much, with bad weather even less so, and so on. i have an external antenna for it, and connecting it up gives it a great deal of boost in reception and accuracy, especially in the woods. on the other hand, when a solid object is in the way of satellite reception, then not even the best antenna will get any reception.

 

the smart phone gives you a choice to use Towers for coordinates if you choose.

 

I have not tried that yet since this is my first week of fun Geocaching.

accuracy is going to be very very very bad when using the cell network only. think in terms of at least several hundred meters out.

 

I think both work great together. A smart phone works separate as a phone with towers and as a GPS with satellites at the same time. Even in the desert?

 

I have to do more research on my EVO.

It might not have a separate GPS...that would make it useless in the desert or high terrain.

yeah it has a proper GPS chip inside, so it will give you a location even without any cell reception. of course you won't have any maps available or anything, unless you have them preloaded to the phone.

[markstang]

Thanks I am understanding more and more now. The phone application must use background use of other applications to place coordinates and icons for locations and so on by displaying using the apps map or the phones application mapping that it came with. Since GPSing is about location numbers , the mapping of those numbers are done with many different types of programs from phones to GPS stand alones and all of the varying brands for both.

 

I have learned a lot today. I found a supported app for my phone that looks pretty good and complies now.

[+Meags912]

I was caching with my phone today in rain and under tree cover. My phone get me within 10-15 feet of the cache. I have used my cell phone to cache in areas with no cell service, I just made sure to preload the caches ahead of time then I can put it in "airplane mode" so it does not continuously search for a signal. How does this compare to a handheld GPS?

[Th3 Brown Family]

Android phones work great for Geocaching.

I use a Droid Eris without any problems.

[+ecanderson]

I have proven that my Android (electronic device that communicates with satellites) is accurate within 12 inches.

Wow. The folks at Leica, Thales, Trimble and Topcon that sell units for over $10,000 to get that kind of accuracy are going to be really bummed to hear that.

[+Druce_n_Eulla]

I have proven that my Android (electronic device that communicates with satellites) is accurate within 12 inches.

Wow. The folks at Leica, Thales, Trimble and Topcon that sell units for over $10,000 to get that kind of accuracy are going to be really bummed to hear that.

Yeah I laughed at that one too. Gotta love the newbie smartphone users who get into caching claiming they have the best GPS-r on the market and it is a phone. Heck the antenae in the phone is nowhere near as good as any budget GPS-r let alone some of the upper $1000 units. I think I am done posting on these Droid GPS-r debates. Gonna let it go til these people get more caches under their belt. Almost anyone who says these things and start these debates have just started caching or have fewer than 100 finds.

Trimble must not know what they are doing I guess.

[+dakboy]

Android phones work great for Geocaching.

I use a Droid Eris without any problems.

Be sure to let us know how well that Eris is doing after you drop it through some ice & into a stream in February.

[markstang]

My previous statement of within 3 feet were all on Complete sunny days. I started last week and until today not gone out for two days. Because of rain.

 

GC1P73M Under a tree in the pouring rain. The GPS Bounced from 12.13 feet to 13.85 feet

GC1HF2 Open in the pouring rain. The GPS Bounced from 6.32 feet to 6.66 feet

GC27QMY Under trees in the pouring rain. GPS Bounced from 4.23 feet to 13.37 feet

GC21E34 Under trees in the pouring rain. GPS Bounced from 7.21 feet to 8.64 feet

GC2284V Under heavy trees poring rain. GPS Bounced from 5.82 feet to 13.65 feet (note one bounce went to 32 feet, my unit prompted me to re calibrate my compass when that happened)

GC26BPE Under tree rain stopped. GPS Bounced from 1.97 feet to 12.97 feet

 

I did this today with a zip lock bag to find out for myself how well it does in bad conditions. (pouring rain is a bad condition too me)

 

My only finds have been in the last week on blue sky's.

 

Yeah I am new. but that does not mean that I lie. You love when you keep hereing about remarkable claims from smart phone users. Have you ever considered what they say might be true? Just a thought. I do not make Other GeoCachers feel unwelcome with statements.

 

How about saying "welcome , I hope you enjoy your new hobby. If you have any questions feel free to chime in, I am sure someone will have their 2 cents"

 

Nope. Not here. I like my Garmin too by the way. At least I have tried both and wanted to share something.

 

Ya gotta love it when the senior members make the new guys feel like they are full of it... makes me want to feel glad to be here.

[NordicMan]

Honestly markstang, we're not playing with you or teasing you, nor are we flat out calling you a liar... Seriously & honestly, "consumer grade GPS receivers" can only hope to get ~10 feet of accuracy on a *good day*, and maybe 15-25 feet of accuracy in poorer conditions.

 

Try this test with a friend. Go to the center of a park and "hide" something tiny like a penny in the grass. Before leaving it there, get as good a position fix on that location with whatever GPSr you want to test.. Now go away and give your friend the GPSr and challenge him to find the penny. Make sure the penny is in the grass not just sitting on top of a pebble or something like that

 

Something really tiny in an open field, there's a chance he/she may find it, but more likely they won't. That is unless your unit is really able to give 12" of accuracy, lol

 

Honest, try that test out & report back your findings

[markstang]

OK I will try it. My wife has the same phone with the GPS. Honest I will try it. I also doubt she will find it. My devise says at the bottom "accurate +_- 20feet"

 

Thank you for your response.

 

I recognize that the 1 foot accuracy was and could only have been a coincidental fluke. Murphy's law is real. I thought it was normal, but proved other wise today with the same honesty.

[+dfx]

I recognize that the 1 foot accuracy was and could only have been a coincidental fluke. Murphy's law is real. I thought it was normal, but proved other wise today with the same honesty.

looks like you're starting to see the full picture, very good! actually modern handhelds will also perform better than what their accuracy reading says under optimal conditions, the best accuracy possible is about 1 meter (3 feet). but this is a rare occurence and does not reflect the usual mode of operation. the thing is: even if the GPSr at one points shows a distance of zero at the certain location, it will not always consistently do the same, and that's what the actual accuracy is: the maximum amount of fluctuation in the coordinate readings. if most of the coordinates the GPSr gives you for a certain location are within 30 feet of what they should be, then that's your accuracy, even if some of the coordinate readings are actually spot on.

 

it does look like your phone performs quite well even under not so good conditions. GPS augmentation can make a big difference here, and i assume that the phone can get the augmentation info off the cell network instead of having to rely on satellites for that thanks to AGPS. without augmentation, GPS is only accurate to 6 meters at best. of course it's possible that the phone is actually unable to get augmentation info off the satellites and that it has to rely on the data network for that, in which case your accuracy will drop when you're out of cell reception.

Edited August 25, 2010 by dfx

[+EScout]

Markstang:

You are interested in accuracy, and you are in the USA, so go to:

NGS Datasheets

 

Search for your county and under data type desired, choose GPS sites only. You want to go to an accessible benchmark; these are super-accurate benchmarks. These are usually in locations with a very good view of the sky. After you enter the benchmark's coords, stand over it and see the distance. (There is some rounding error, so you can be 2-3 feet off because of rounding the coords.)

 

You will learn a little about your unit's reported accuracy number. I do this will every new GPS I buy.

 

Welcome to the hobby and happy caching.

Edited August 25, 2010 by EScout

[markstang]

Markstang:

You are interested in accuracy, and you are in the USA, so go to:

NGS Datasheets

 

Search for your county and under data type desired, choose GPS sites only. You want to go to an accessible benchmark; these are super-accurate benchmarks. These are usually in locations with a very good view of the sky. After you enter the benchmark's coords, stand over it and see the distance. (There is some rounding error, so you can be 2-3 feet off because of rounding the coords.)

 

You will learn a little about your unit's reported accuracy number. I do this will every new GPS I buy.

 

Welcome to the hobby and happy caching.

 

Thank you and others for the recent welcomes!

 

I have gone to the site in anticipation of trying this today. The kids will be in school and I am off work today.

I believe that I am not able to comprehend how to apply the test with the re-sorted list I got. I understand lat and long numbers however I do not know if this means I go there (to the coordinates and see how close I get or what) or not.

 

A little help in understanding this new information would be wonderful to help enlighten and humble the new guy

[markstang]

Since I have to leave now to take the kids to school I thought I should logically load the list to distance and take coordinates of the closest on and go see where it takes me. hmm

 

Bring wife and find closest breakfast if I fail

 

Edit: Ahhh...I see I can click on survey and get historical print out of the history and specific type directions of area. Thanks, I will have some results I hope.

Edited August 25, 2010 by markstang

[markstang]

Since I have to leave now to take the kids to school I thought I should logically load the list to distance and take coordinates of the closest on and go see where it takes me. hmm

 

Bring wife and find closest breakfast if I fail

 

Edit: Ahhh...I see I can click on survey and get historical print out of the history and specific type directions of area. Thanks, I will have some results I hope.

 

Did not work so well. I do not understand why. I found the marker by the description of survey but inputting the coordinates put me 1/2 mile off. Not likely the GPS . I must not understand how to input a coordinate by hand correctly. New to me.

[+EScout]

When you go to the Data Sheets, the coordinates are in Degrees Minutes Seconds, specifically: DDD MM SS.sssss. You need to convert this to what we use typically, which is DDD MM.mmm. Divide your SS.sssss by 60 and you have your .mmm

 

Or, you can change your format in your GPSr.

 

Find several data sheets near you and read the description and see if they are easily accessible. Many are at airports or other facilities.