I want to make a "souvenir" for my region

[+doingitoldschool]

I like this new souvenir idea, but can't find any info on how I could design and submit one for my region. The current thread on souvenirs seems like a bunch of belly-aching, so I thought I would start a new one to get an answer to this question - Will cachers be able to design and submit souvenirs for their regions, and if so, how?

[+Coldgears]

Like this.

[+doingitoldschool]

Like this.

 

Yea, 'cept it's a wee bit big, and I don't live in Philly

[AZcachemeister]

As far as I can tell, you can't.

It appears only Geocaching.com can create them.

You could ask them to do one for you...maybe.

[+Coldgears]

Yeah, just make one and post it in the thread about sovenirs. There is no official way to do it yet, but so far two people have posted there own so far...

[+doingitoldschool]

 

I would add a "You've cached in the..." to the top.

[+omaggo]

Does anyone know if posting a design for a souvenir in the "souvenir" thread has been successful in getting it made for that particiular area?

 

Also does anyone know if there is a specific person to contact in Groundspeak or geocaching.com who deals with this? we sent an email to contact@geocaching.com but they sent us to the forum to look for the answers which was a little frustrating.

 

Any help here would be appreiciated. We live and geocache in Istanbul Turkey, and think a souvenir would be well deserved for anyone caching here:)

 

OMAGGO

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Does anyone know if posting a design for a souvenir in the "souvenir" thread has been successful in getting it made for that particiular area?

 

Also does anyone know if there is a specific person to contact in Groundspeak or geocaching.com who deals with this? we sent an email to contact@geocaching.com but they sent us to the forum to look for the answers which was a little frustrating.

 

Any help here would be appreiciated. We live and geocache in Istanbul Turkey, and think a souvenir would be well deserved for anyone caching here:)

 

OMAGGO

 

See the "Bring Back Country based Souvenirs" thread in the feature suggestions forum. Groundspeak stopped releasing region based souvenirs in February 2011. I started that thread awhile back in August in an attempt to lobby GS to reinstate country based souvenirs. So far it has 70 responses with a very high percentage of support for the idea.

 

When region based souvenirs were still being released GS was using a voting process to keep track of suggestions for souvenirs for different countries but I don't think they've ever considered implementing an sort of process which would allow general users to create a souvenir.

 

If I had any clout in suggesting how country based souvenir could be reinstated here's a possible implementation.

 

Create a page which allows users to suggest (and count votes) for a region. GS could have someone review those suggestions and determine which ones they consider viable. Turkey might be acceptable, while Philadelphia might not. Then they could put out a "call for artwork" that would allow graphic artists to submit proposed artwork (which adheres to some published guidelines). After some period, a voting page could be put up with the top 3 candidates and allow users to vote on the artwork which best represents the region. The new region based souvenir could be created using the winning artwork. While this would require using some sort of basic voting mechanism and someone (or a small group) of people at GS to review the submission, it wouldn't require allocating graphic design resources at GS.

[nonaeroterraqueous]

I like the idea of continued souvenir development, and I'm sure we have plenty of available talent for the creation of artwork. Granted, there might be some ruffled feathers from those whose artwork doesn't get picked, and there might be some trouble if the only offering for an area happens to be from someone with no talent. One thing to consider is that much of the work might be related to the programming aspect to souvenirs. I don't know what goes into it, exactly, but for these things to work, the system has to be able to identify caches that qualify for each of the various souvenirs out there. For national or state attributes, that should be easy, as each cache page lists where it's from. Regional souvenirs, like, for example, if there were ones for the Blue Ridge, San Jacinto Mountain, or the Gold Lake Basin, would have the added work of defining the region, probably with vector mapping of some sort, plus the added labor of programming the system to identify and respond to caches that fall within that region.

 

I think, to this point, it has been easy to assume that one system has been in place to cover all souvenirs, that minor adjustments, only, were necessary to add new ones to the system, but that assumption may have been false. I don't know. I'm not a web site developer.

[+ras_oscar]

I understand and agree that more souveniers based on geagraphic locations would be a welcome addition. I have also long thought that a souvenir for filling in each day in a month on the caching calendar would be a welcome addition. The challenge I see is one of copyrights. Say a cacher creates souvenir artwork and inadvertently includes copyrighted elements from somewhere else. GS as the publisher would be responsible for the blowback with no real method of checking ahead of time. I suspect that GS will continue to only publish souvenirs based on artwork they create from scratch.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

I like the idea of continued souvenir development, and I'm sure we have plenty of available talent for the creation of artwork. Granted, there might be some ruffled feathers from those whose artwork doesn't get picked, and there might be some trouble if the only offering for an area happens to be from someone with no talent. One thing to consider is that much of the work might be related to the programming aspect to souvenirs. I don't know what goes into it, exactly, but for these things to work, the system has to be able to identify caches that qualify for each of the various souvenirs out there. For national or state attributes, that should be easy, as each cache page lists where it's from. Regional souvenirs, like, for example, if there were ones for the Blue Ridge, San Jacinto Mountain, or the Gold Lake Basin, would have the added work of defining the region, probably with vector mapping of some sort, plus the added labor of programming the system to identify and respond to caches that fall within that region.

 

I think, to this point, it has been easy to assume that one system has been in place to cover all souvenirs, that minor adjustments, only, were necessary to add new ones to the system, but that assumption may have been false. I don't know. I'm not a web site developer.

 

For the possible implementation that I suggested, that's why I included a step for suggesting and approval of regions. I may be wrong about this, but I was under the impression that bounding polygons are not really used for determining the Country/Region fields in a cache listing. For example, if I happen to live near the boundary between New York and Pennsylvania and I place a cache that is 50 feet on the New York side of the border, but when submitting the list, say that it's in Pennsylvania. It will be listed as in Pennsylvania, and anyone finding the cache could get awarded the Souvenir for Pennsylvania and not the one for New York.

 

Although it's possible to use a geocoding service to retrieve a set of polygon points which define a region (i.e. try this url to see polygon points for Italy: http://nominatim.openstreetmap.org/search?q=Turkey&format=xml&polygon=1), a reverse geocoding service which accepts lat/long values (i.e. geocache coordinates) and returns a Country/Region name would be a lot easier (though not as easy as just using country/state names). For example:

 

http://nominatim.openstreetmap.org/reverse?format=xml&lat=41.8932575&lon=12.48306196&zoom=18&addressdetails=1

 

I'd be happy if region based souvenirs only went to the country level, or perhaps any of the "official" sub-regions that GS has defined. For example, that reverse geocoding url specifies lat/long values for a point in Rome, Italy. The results indicate that the Country it Italy, and the "state" is Lazio. If you do a search for caches on the Hide and Seek a cache page, and search by Country, it will go to an advanced search page where one must specify a "state/province" (which includes Lazio). Groundspeak hasn't broken down all countries into sub-regions (Denmark, for example), but if we could get souvenirs for all recognized countries/territories and sub-regions that GS has in there database, that's a lot of souvenirs.

 

Although it would be nice to see souvenirs Blue Ridge, or Gold Lake Basin, perhaps one for finding a cache on the Great Wall in China, reverse geocoding service typically only return administrative region information and "major" features. For example, using the coordinates for a virtual cache in Yosemite will identify that it's in Yosemite National Park, but a google search on San Jacinto mountain identifies it as a feature but a reverse geocoding search only tells me that it's near Riverside, California.

Edited January 9, 2013 by NYPaddleCacher

[nonaeroterraqueous]

Although it would be nice to see souvenirs Blue Ridge, or Gold Lake Basin, perhaps one for finding a cache on the Great Wall in China, reverse geocoding service typically only return administrative region information and "major" features.

 

I guess that means we won't see regions like these:

 

 

Ecological maps seem like a logical way to divide up a region, because they differentiate based on actual geography. Each region is a very different place from the others, and each region provides a different experience.

 

I guess there's no easy way to use that in making souvenirs, though.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Although it would be nice to see souvenirs Blue Ridge, or Gold Lake Basin, perhaps one for finding a cache on the Great Wall in China, reverse geocoding service typically only return administrative region information and "major" features.

 

I guess that means we won't see regions like these:

 

 

Ecological maps seem like a logical way to divide up a region, because they differentiate based on actual geography. Each region is a very different place from the others, and each region provides a different experience.

 

I guess there's no easy way to use that in making souvenirs, though.

 

Well, the fact that each region appears to have a boundary indicates someone sort of polygon which defines each region (probably what's commonly used in GIS applications called a shapefile). Even with a shapefile, or other representation of a polygon which defines a region, determining whether or not a specific set of lat/long coordinates fall within a region is not as simple as using an already developed reverse geocoding service. Keep in mind that a thematic map such as this is usually only a visualization of data for a specific region (in this case, California) and often doesn't have any sort of service layer which allows a system to look up a location within a region. Since he regions are limited to California it would not be of much use as any sort of souvenirs implementation should be global since Geocaching is a global game. Reverse geocoding services such as the OpenStreetMaps service, the google api, or geonames might not have all of the smaller regions defined but they're pretty complete for political regions throughout the world.

[nonaeroterraqueous]

Since he regions are limited to California it would not be of much use as any sort of souvenirs implementation should be global since Geocaching is a global game.

 

Well, I just used that as an example. Naturally, the whole world could be divided into such regions, but if you're right and a simple polygon isn't enough to reverse-search a set of coordinates, then it's all moot, anyway. I'd just like to see souvenirs made for just about anything. Base it on political or geological mapping, or base it on events or timing, or whatever. I don't care. I like it all. Any attribute that contributes memorably toward the nature of a particular geocaching trip could have one.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Since he regions are limited to California it would not be of much use as any sort of souvenirs implementation should be global since Geocaching is a global game.

 

Well, I just used that as an example. Naturally, the whole world could be divided into such regions, but if you're right and a simple polygon isn't enough to reverse-search a set of coordinates, then it's all moot, anyway. I'd just like to see souvenirs made for just about anything. Base it on political or geological mapping, or base it on events or timing, or whatever. I don't care. I like it all. Any attribute that contributes memorably toward the nature of a particular geocaching trip could have one.

 

I agree there there are all sort of opportunities for different types of souvenirs, however, when I posted the "Bring back country based souvenirs" I intentionally limited the suggestion to something that would required a minimum amount of development effort. I even suggested that as a pilot to see to see how users respond that they just do the countries for which artwork has already been created. There is a page on Flickr which as artwork that they've created for many other countries that have not been released as souvenirs here: Geocaching.com Souvenirs

 

There are six countries on that list in which I've found a cache and I've found caches in another 11 that are not, including some that I'm sure others would like to see such as Italy and China. I suspect that it could be quite awhile before I'd see a souvenir for my finds in Tanzania, Zimbabwe, Malaysia, or Singapore.

 

As a software developer myself, I realize that making a suggestion that has some "low hanging fruit" (such as the existing artwork on Flikr) increases the likelihood that *something* will get implemented. Suggesting something that requires a more ambitious development effort, and it's much easier for them to keep it on the back burner.

[+tokyotwowheeling]

I too would like to see more souvenirs. I live in Japan and, of course, received the Japan country souvenir but Japan has 47 prefectures all of which are in the Groundspeak database. I would like to see a souvenir for each prefecture. Souvenirs should be created by geocachers in Japan because nobody knows Japan as well as the geocachers that live here. Groundspeak could release submission standards that include size, resolution and rules about copyright, appropriate content and submission deadlines. A voting system could be established to allow the geocaching community to select the best souvenir or Groundspeak themselves could be the judges.

[cornelyFamily]

I'd like to see more souvenirs too.

 

It's a bit frustrating to view that I live in Belgium, a small country but without any souvenir while Luxembourg even smaller have one.

 

So how can we tell GS we love country based souvenir ? Has somebody started a petition or something ?

[+palmetto]

Here's a post by a Groundspeak employee on this topic, (and a link to post).

 

The issue with souvenirs is complex. The system was initially built as a gameplay feature in a mobile app and was commandeered to be used for the souvenir system you see today. However, it is very clunky and inefficient for the job. It can only trigger off a specific date, a specific cache ID or set of IDs, or a specific country and/or state. This means that we can't even do a souvenir for "England", for example, since our country/state system doesn't include a discrete country/state selection for that entity.

 

In addition, each country-based souvenir adds a new layer of load to this already creaky system. Unlike event-based or date-based souvenirs, which can quickly check a cache ID or log date and then move on, the country-based souvenirs have to check the country and state IDs for every cache log that comes through and determine whether or not to award the appropriate souvenir. Country/state souvenirs have to operate indefinitely, while date and event souvenirs essentially spike briefly and then fall out of use.

 

On top of this, nearly every time we release a new country souvenir, we get complaints about the text or picture. Not errors (which are easy enough to fix), but complaints about offensive imagery or content. Many Germans felt that the font used for the German state souvenirs was stereotypical and hearkened back to WWII; we had a Norwegian vow to never log another cache in Norway because of the "propagandistic" nature of that country's souvenir; some French users felt that the use of a rooster on the French souvenir was a stereotype; and so on, and so on...

 

Given all of this, we have been extremely conservative when it comes to releasing new country souvenirs. We know that it seems inconsistent, but the bottom line is that the system is just not built well for how it is being used. What really needs to happen is an overhaul of the feature that eliminates the downsides while at the same time encouraging interest in exploring new areas. That's why you'll here us talk about an "achievements" system that will include various badges including a new system of souvenirs for visiting states/countries that does not offend the sensibilities of various users around the world.

 

I hope that this helps explain the situation.

 

And here's the Help Center article that lists available souvenirs http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.page&id=436

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Here's a post by a Groundspeak employee on this topic, (and a link to post).

 

That post is in a thread that I started called "continue releasing country based souvenirs". I also started a previous thread called "Bring Back Country Based Souvenirs" (which was closed by a moderator). Moun10bikes response gives a good explanation of the issues from a Groundspeak perspective but the overwhelming response in just those two thread (and there have been many, many more country souvenirs threads), is that users want more country based souvenirs. Belgium is one of those countries that just missed the cut when GS released a bunch of country souvenirs when the 2 millionth cache listing was created. Italy is another. I don't know how Luxembourg managed to get one but the criteria was not based on the size of the country (China and Russia don't have souvenirs either) but was more on the number of caches in the country.