I’m a bit disappointed…

[+GEO WALKER]

I’m a bit disappointed…

 

I just want the opportunity to express my opinion on this issue:

 

I’m a bit disappointed with GSs conclusion of this issue. I thought that the whole purpose of Earthcaches was to enlighten folks about earth science, apparently, I was wrong, or GS does not see this. Granted the opportunity to revive these caches may be done by others, while “borrowing” the same concept and location. Personally and Professionally I find this to lie somewhere between plagiarism and downright theft.

 

From a thread now closed…

Allow 203 earthcaches to survive, A plea to GS

QUOTE 9K-lord @ Dec 7,2010, 09:21AM)

 

 

Let´s wait what will be GS respond to Joranda´s request. They should answer although for them it could be already closed chapter. If their respond is negative (I hope it won´t be) then we can discuss about saving them. At least those that will meet new guidelines.

 

GS respond to Joranda´s request

Ms. Jen was nice enough to email me back this morning and they will not unarchive the ECs.

 

" It is our determination that these caches will remain permanently archived."

 

You are welcome to re-submit the caches under your own account, and the reviewer team will be happy to publish those that comply with the current cache publication guidelines (for both EarthCaches and the rest) and our Terms of Use.

 

I did what I could, I asked to talk them over and I got my answer. As far as copy and paste his earthcaches, I will not, they was his ideas. The ones here in my home state that I was at with him and in Missouri while we was at MOGA, since we found them together those I will try as long as geoware will publish them for me.

Edited December 8, 2010 by GEO WALKER

[+Lostby7]

I'm also disappointed in this decision.

[+Huntleigh]

Granted the opportunity to revive these caches may be done by others, while “borrowing” the same concept and location. Personally and Professionally I find this to lie somewhere between plagiarism and downright theft.

 

Not if there were an endorsement from the CO

[+joranda]

What I do not understand is where was geoware when this was going on? I had seen he was reading but never posting. I would think it was worth his while that he was the one who let 203 ECs get published and now it looks like he let 203 ECs go to the way side. Does anyone else fell that way. I am not talking to the slug from Missouri either. He will be here soon enough to give his buck fifty worth on something he really doesn't care about.

[+GEO WALKER]

What I do not understand is where was geoware when this was going on? I had seen he was reading but never posting. I would think it was worth his while that he was the one who let 203 ECs get published and now it looks like he let 203 ECs go to the way side. Does anyone else fell that way. I am not talking to the slug from Missouri either. He will be here soon enough to give his buck fifty worth on something he really doesn't care about.

 

As a government employee of 29 years, I think, geoawares silence lies w/the fact he is truley caught in the middle of this issue, while the rest of us have a greater latitude to express our concerns... Some call it politics...

Edited December 8, 2010 by GEO WALKER

[+Lostby7]

Agreed. It is not required that the face of EarthCaching be required to weigh in on every subject. He has our best interest and the interests of ECs at heart wether he posts his opinions or not.

 

We shouldn't be attempting to drag him into every tiff or complaint we have. That is not fair to put him in that position. If he has something to add he will add it.

 

Also Groundspeak has already shut down three threads about this subject so clearly they have expressed their feelings on the topic.

Edited December 8, 2010 by Lostby7

[+Manville Possum]

What I do not understand is where was geoware when this was going on? I had seen he was reading but never posting. I would think it was worth his while that he was the one who let 203 ECs get published and now it looks like he let 203 ECs go to the way side. Does anyone else fell that way. I am not talking to the slug from Missouri either. He will be here soon enough to give his buck fifty worth on something he really doesn't care about.

 

As a government employee of 29 years, I think, geoawares silence lies w/the fact he is truley caught in the middle of this issue, while the rest of us have a greater latitude to express our concerns... Some call it politics...

Yes, this subject is not one for geoaware to chime in on, or at least I sure would not. This subject has really po'd the Earthcaching community, however it has not stopped us. I have submitted a request to a land manager, asking to develop educational Earthcaches that have been archived. They would not be a total recreation of the archived ones, but alot of copy and paste may be needed. I'm not a total rip-off, it's that the banned user is quite informative and knowledegable about geology. We are not, but if Earthcaches have to be written to where a 14 y-o can understand, we may can do that.

[+Harry Dolphin]

The answer, that so many seem to ignore, is that this is Groundspeak's business/site. This is not a democracy. Groundspeak is free to run its business as it wishes. I have no idea what it is that the CO did to evoke the wrath of the frog. But I am aware of a few users who have been permanently banned, and have had their caches locked. That is between GS and the CO. I suspect that such banninations are few and far between. I also suspect that one has to work hard to incur the wrath of the frog.

Yes. It is sad to see so many EarthCaches archived. But it is a business decision on the part of the owners of this site. It is their site to run as they wish. So, don't incur the wrath of the frog. Or go somewhere else.

[+ArtieD]

The answer, that so many seem to ignore, is that this is Groundspeak's business/site. This is not a democracy. Groundspeak is free to run its business as it wishes. I have no idea what it is that the CO did to evoke the wrath of the frog. But I am aware of a few users who have been permanently banned, and have had their caches locked. That is between GS and the CO. I suspect that such banninations are few and far between. I also suspect that one has to work hard to incur the wrath of the frog.

Yes. It is sad to see so many EarthCaches archived. But it is a business decision on the part of the owners of this site. It is their site to run as they wish. So, don't incur the wrath of the frog. Or go somewhere else.

 

I couldn't have said it better myself. Thank you.

 

*waits for the imminent reply from joranda*

[+Manville Possum]

The answer, that so many seem to ignore, is that this is Groundspeak's business/site. This is not a democracy. Groundspeak is free to run its business as it wishes. I have no idea what it is that the CO did to evoke the wrath of the frog. But I am aware of a few users who have been permanently banned, and have had their caches locked. That is between GS and the CO. I suspect that such banninations are few and far between. I also suspect that one has to work hard to incur the wrath of the frog.

Yes. It is sad to see so many EarthCaches archived. But it is a business decision on the part of the owners of this site. It is their site to run as they wish. So, don't incur the wrath of the frog. Or go somewhere else.

Yes, I agree. It is really ____ how this issue was handled by Groundspeak. Maybe I am next because I question their reasons?

[+Konnarock Kid & Marge]

The answer, that so many seem to ignore, is that this is Groundspeak's business/site. This is not a democracy. Groundspeak is free to run its business as it wishes. I have no idea what it is that the CO did to evoke the wrath of the frog. But I am aware of a few users who have been permanently banned, and have had their caches locked. That is between GS and the CO. I suspect that such banninations are few and far between. I also suspect that one has to work hard to incur the wrath of the frog.

Yes. It is sad to see so many EarthCaches archived. But it is a business decision on the part of the owners of this site. It is their site to run as they wish. So, don't incur the wrath of the frog. Or go somewhere else.

Harry, you know I value your opinion, but you are comparing apples and pomegranates.

Here is the difference: I am sure you are quite correct and I would never doubt your word when you say, " I am aware of a few users who have been permanently banned, and have had their caches locked."

The big difference is Cav Scout hasn't been permanently banned! He was given a one year ban starting early in Feb, 2010 and the sentence would have been served by early Feb 2011. Now if the real intent was to live up to the promise of only a one year ban, why archive the caches after ten months and so close to the end of the ban? Go figure.

Sorry, but that's is another question which will remain unanswered at least until Feb. 2011. We'll see! Thanks.

[+Konnarock Kid & Marge]

Agreed. It is not required that the face of EarthCaching be required to weigh in on every subject. He has our best interest and the interests of ECs at heart wether he posts his opinions or not.

 

We shouldn't be attempting to drag him into every tiff or complaint we have. That is not fair to put him in that position. If he has something to add he will add it.

 

Also Groundspeak has already shut down three threads about this subject so clearly they have expressed their feelings on the topic.

 

"Every tiff or complaint?" What have you seen which is bigger than losing 203 earthcaches?

Politics? Between whom? Thanks.

P.S. If we can keep our differences civil and not resort to name calling, maybe, just maybe GS will not have an excuse to shut this thread! Keep the knives in their scabbards! Some of us believe the discussion is appropriate. After all, there are many aspects to the issue.

Edited December 8, 2010 by Konnarock Kid & Marge

[+joranda]

Maybe the new caching site,"opencaching.com" will start ECs too. Then you might see 203 new ECs getting published there. You never know. Someone might be in talks with them now.

[+dfx]

P.S. If we can keep our differences civil and not resort to name calling, maybe, just maybe GS will not have an excuse to shut this thread! Keep the knives in their scabbards! Some of us believe the discussion is appropriate. After all, there are many aspects to the issue.

the problem is that GS doesn't need a reason to close the thread. if they don't wanna tell the reason, then they just don't.

[+t4e]

can anyone provide some links to threads where i can read further about this issue, even if they are closed?

this thread sounds interesting and intriguing but for anyone that hasn't seen the "stories" leading up to this thread is hard to make an informed decision

 

and what in God's name can anyone do to deserve a 1 year ban?

i can't even pull up his/her profile in a regular member search, have they been permanently banned?

 

as for threads being closed, that's not a surprise, the "fight club" rules seem to apply on GS

Edited December 8, 2010 by t4e

[+ArtieD]

and what in God's name can anyone do to deserve a 1 year ban?

 

Be a very bad boy.

[+joranda]

can anyone provide some links to threads where i can read further about this issue, even if they are closed?

this thread sounds interesting and intriguing but for anyone that hasn't seen the "stories" leading up to this thread is hard to make an informed decision

 

and what in God's name can anyone do to deserve a 1 year ban?

i can't even pull up his/her profile in a regular member search, have they been permanently banned?

 

as for threads being closed, that's not a surprise, the "fight club" rules seem to apply on GS

[/quo

 

You can still view his profile. I just did a search on it.

This is on his cache page posted by GS.

 

To geocachers from Groundspeak:

11 Feb 2010

Please go ahead and log caches that you have legitimately found. The cache owner can do appropriate maintenance and log verification after the ban period is terminated.

[+t4e]

can anyone provide some links to threads where i can read further about this issue, even if they are closed?

this thread sounds interesting and intriguing but for anyone that hasn't seen the "stories" leading up to this thread is hard to make an informed decision

 

and what in God's name can anyone do to deserve a 1 year ban?

i can't even pull up his/her profile in a regular member search, have they been permanently banned?

 

as for threads being closed, that's not a surprise, the "fight club" rules seem to apply on GS

 

You can still view his profile. I just did a search on it.

This is on his cache page posted by GS.

 

To geocachers from Groundspeak:

11 Feb 2010

Please go ahead and log caches that you have legitimately found. The cache owner can do appropriate maintenance and log verification after the ban period is terminated.

 

well you can see his profile if you go to it from someone's profile that logged one of his EC's

 

if you try the the Find Another Player feature his name doesn`t come up

 

EDIT: nm it worked now

Edited December 8, 2010 by t4e

[+beejay&esskay]

I'm also disappointed in this decision.

Ditto. But I've been disappointed before. I'm sure I will be again.

[+Carbon Hunter]

Maybe the new caching site,"opencaching.com" will start ECs too. Then you might see 203 new ECs getting published there. You never know. Someone might be in talks with them now.

[cezanne]

 

and what in God's name can anyone do to deserve a 1 year ban?

 

In short:

There was some issue with deleting found logs to Earthcaches where no photographs were provided (there has been a guideline change early this year of which you might be aware of) and/or not all answers were as expected by the creator of the caches. This led to a long struggle.

 

If you use Google, you might be able to find a thread in another geocaching forum where CS explains the background in his own words.

 

as for threads being closed, that's not a surprise, the "fight club" rules seem to apply on GS

 

Actually, they often close threads even when no fights whatsoever are ongoing. It is not even possible to

use e.g. the name of a village in Austria in the German speaking forum just because the meaning of its name in the English language

does not conform with the forum rules. Remember moreover that also the thread discussing the souvenirs got closed as by mistake a list became public too early.

 

 

Cezanne

[+t4e]

 

and what in God's name can anyone do to deserve a 1 year ban?

 

In short:

There was some issue with deleting found logs to Earthcaches where no photographs were provided (there has been a guideline change early this year of which you might be aware of) and/or not all answers were as expected by the creator of the caches. This led to a long struggle.

 

If you use Google, you might be able to find a thread in another geocaching forum where CS explains the background in his own words.

 

as for threads being closed, that's not a surprise, the "fight club" rules seem to apply on GS

 

Actually, they often close threads even when no fights whatsoever are ongoing. It is not even possible to

use e.g. the name of a village in Austria in the German speaking forum just because the meaning of its name in the English language

does not conform with the forum rules. Remember moreover that also the thread discussing the souvenirs got closed as by mistake a list became public too early.

 

 

Cezanne

 

yes, i am aware of the guideline change and i also know that some take it too far, from both sides, CO and cachers but i will do a search to read more about it, unfortunately i have a feeling that i will only find one side of the story

 

as for the reference to "fight club" rules the reference was to this, more specifically #1 & #2, when a sore subject comes up the threads just get closed with no feedback for the reasoning

Edited December 8, 2010 by t4e

[+Claystalker]

I guess I shouldn't have been surprised and outraged by the outcome of this whole situation, with the world we live in today. But when you care about something, it's hard not to. Won't be long and this whole "game" will be nothing more than a bunch of park and grabs thrown out everywhere for the number hounds. Look at what this started as, and look at it now. The first caches were an adventure to find and finders told of their adventure in detail. Now finding 75% of the caches out there (or more), there is no challenge at all, and there is not a story to be told except for "found it". But apparently that's what someone wants, so that's where it's headed. I don't think this is what Dave and Jeremy had in mind when this all started, but who could predict it anyway.

 

Didn't want to get off track of the subject, just wanted to express my thoughts.

[+ArtieD]

You got all this from some Earthcaches being archived?

[+Konnarock Kid & Marge]

I guess I shouldn't have been surprised and outraged by the outcome of this whole situation, with the world we live in today. But when you care about something, it's hard not to. Won't be long and this whole "game" will be nothing more than a bunch of park and grabs thrown out everywhere for the number hounds. Look at what this started as, and look at it now. The first caches were an adventure to find and finders told of their adventure in detail. Now finding 75% of the caches out there (or more), there is no challenge at all, and there is not a story to be told except for "found it". But apparently that's what someone wants, so that's where it's headed. I don't think this is what Dave and Jeremy had in mind when this all started, but who could predict it anyway.

 

Didn't want to get off track of the subject, just wanted to express my thoughts.

 

Good points, but don't give up! Thanks.

[+Claystalker]

You got all this from some Earthcaches being archived?

 

That wasn't the point, but I didn't figure you would understand anyway.

[+ArtieD]

You got all this from some Earthcaches being archived?

 

That wasn't the point, but I didn't figure you would understand anyway.

 

I understood quite well, but thanks for playing.

[+Konnarock Kid & Marge]

You got all this from some Earthcaches being archived?

 

That wasn't the point, but I didn't figure you would understand anyway.

 

I understood quite well, but thanks for playing.

 

Please. please keep on topic and refrain from playing games. This is a discussion, not a alley fight! Thanks.

[Brad_W]

Earlier threads on this topic have had to be closed because they devolved into personal disagreements lacking in civility, and this one has continued to do the same notwithstanding the wise counsel of some participants to remain on topic.

 

When a thread is closed for running off track, a new thread is not to be opened to continue the activity. We have attempted to let the participants be self governing, and in light of the failure of that approach, the discussion is not to be restarted.

 

Closing.