To lower the risk of theft can I...

February 21, 2011

At a recent geo-event several long time cachers were lamenting the high theft/disappearance rate of geocoins. One geocacher had this idea to lower the risk of theft. Is this an acceptable alternative to releasing the actual coin? (Photocopy both sides of geocoin on a color copier at 100% size, laminate/polyurethene onto a geocoin sized wooden disk and circulate.) Just wondering.

3.4k · February 21, 2011

At a recent geo-event several long time cachers were lamenting the high theft/disappearance rate of geocoins. One geocacher had this idea to lower the risk of theft. Is this an acceptable alternative to releasing the actual coin? (Photocopy both sides of geocoin on a color copier at 100% size, laminate/polyurethene onto a geocoin sized wooden disk and circulate.) Just wondering.

it is called a proxy, some people like 'em, some people hate them. personally, it is the only way i would release a coin to travel.

February 21, 2011

Yep. Perfectly acceptable, although some people don't care for it. Some go really overboard and swear they'll destroy all proxies they come across because they feel "cheated" when they go out after a coin and find a fake. Those people are weird.

I can't recall having released any proxies yet, but if I was going to, I think the way you described is how I'd do it. Something that makes it at least look close to what the coin looks like in real life.

February 21, 2011

Thanks for the lightning fast reply! I can see how someone might feel cheated (those same folks prolly don't go for dipping coins either) but I would rather risk losing a proxy than my pricey investment!

Geocaching Idaho and Beyond

3.6k · February 21, 2011

Please be sure to include "Proxy" in the name of your coin so people won't be adversely affected when they don't find the "real thing".

2.2k · February 21, 2011

Likewise, if you release the real thing, it's probably a good idea to note in your coin's page somewhere that it's a real coin. Thieves have been known to steal coins and release proxies in their stead.

February 21, 2011

Yep. Perfectly acceptable, although some people don't care for it. Some go really overboard and swear they'll destroy all proxies they come across because they feel "cheated" when they go out after a coin and find a fake. Those people are weird.

I can't recall having released any proxies yet, but if I was going to, I think the way you described is how I'd do it. Something that makes it at least look close to what the coin looks like in real life.

Perfect way to put it hahahhaa :laughing:

February 21, 2011

Good points made! Happy caching all.

1.9k · February 22, 2011

Likewise, if you release the real thing, it's probably a good idea to note in your coin's page somewhere that it's a real coin. Thieves have been known to steal coins and release proxies in their stead.

I was a victim of that. someone stole a coin and left a proxy card so when i placed it i said left proxy card. shortly thereafter i get an email from the coins owner accusing me of theft so now i don't bother moving proxies.

February 22, 2011

Personally if I am releasing a coin, it gets holes drilled in it before it goes out and then I attach the mission to it. It makes it less collectible, and I have some that have now been traveling for a couple years. (I also have some that disappeared out of their first cache)

February 22, 2011

Likewise, if you release the real thing, it's probably a good idea to note in your coin's page somewhere that it's a real coin. Thieves have been known to steal coins and release proxies in their stead.

I was a victim of that. someone stole a coin and left a proxy card so when i placed it i said left proxy card. shortly thereafter i get an email from the coins owner accusing me of theft so now i don't bother moving proxies.

sounds like you got caught up in one of those 'wrong place/wrong time' situations- too bad it wasn't handled more diplomatically by the coin owner because there is always a need for those willing to move travelers to new locations.

Unfortunately, releasing coins &/or TB's involves an element of risk. I too have had TB's disappear. Haven't had the heart to release any of my coins- but I am definitely going to do some scanning and make some high quality proxies. That will be worth the risk to me, and we can still have our pretty coins to look at! I will reserve my favorite for traveling w the family and dipping on our adventures.

Will upload a photo when I get done.

1.7k · February 22, 2011

Keep in mind that with a proxy out in the wild the real coin can not be discovered at events or by other cachers.

8.1k · February 22, 2011

I don't really care for proxies. There are numerous threads on putting a wooden disc with photocopies or a washer with photocopies out in the wild. For me, you will probably never see the coin again, so why not drill it, deface it and attach something to it. Originally, a coin was put into a cache as a reward, swag or as a gift to the cache owner, then they became trackable and people sent them out on missions... bottom line coins make bad travelers. Probably better to buy trackable tags.

3.4k · February 22, 2011

I don't really care for proxies. There are numerous threads on putting a wooden disc with photocopies or a washer with photocopies out in the wild. For me, you will probably never see the coin again, so why not drill it, deface it and attach something to it....

i don't see much difference in defacing a coin and sending out a heavy duty proxy. would rather keep a nice undefaced coin at home and send out the copy. defacing a coin is blasphemy!

speaking of theft, as soon as i saw this cache come up i thought "uh oh" - sure enough, two logs later a dnf.

listing a coin vault cache is a sure invitation to coin thieves. i hope the cache is just "mis-hidden" and not stolen. but looking at the difficulty level i fear the worst. there really isn't any point to releasing a real coin any longer.

GC2P2RQ

February 23, 2011

I can't afford to either have coins made or to collect them, but I would not have a problem with moving a proxy along. It would be great to be able to find one every now and then that I could keep but I sure understand why that probably won't happen. I content myself with collecting signature items of fellow cachers and being able to move along the TB's and coins when I can....

8.1k · February 23, 2011

i don't see much difference in defacing a coin and sending out a heavy duty proxy. would rather keep a nice undefaced coin at home and send out the copy. defacing a coin is blasphemy!

There's a huge difference. A coin's a coin. Drilling it doesn't make it not a coin. A piece of plastic or a photocopy is not a coin.

The coin community used to be mostly people who cached and put out travelers, that has morphed to people who don't cache and have coin collections ... I agree coins don't make good travelers but if you are putting something into the wild don't expect to see it again or have it travel very far (there are exceptions and longstanding travelers). I see no problem with drilling them or bolting it to a lid of a cache!

3k · February 24, 2011

Keep in mind that with a proxy out in the wild the real coin can not be discovered at events or by other cachers.

I don't think this is true. I had a coin go awol while traveling, but kept a duplicate in my pocket for people to check out and look over that was not activated. I kept the first as a recorder of all the cachers I met and would give people the number of the original awol coin to discover so I could continue to grow my list of cachers met on the trail. Despite the fact that the original coin is still out "traveling" (or buried in the bottom of somebodies couch cushions) plenty of people have Discovered it since. I've seen people do this with other trackables as well. From what I understand, people can Discover the coin at anytime, but they can't Grab the coin without messing up the mileage. Is this not still the case?

February 24, 2011

I don't really care for proxies. There are numerous threads on putting a wooden disc with photocopies or a washer with photocopies out in the wild. For me, you will probably never see the coin again, so why not drill it, deface it and attach something to it. Originally, a coin was put into a cache as a reward, swag or as a gift to the cache owner, then they became trackable and people sent them out on missions... bottom line coins make bad travelers. Probably better to buy trackable tags.

I agree... a coin is a coin.... a proxy is just that..a proxy. It can have a wood chip, a pocker chip, even a lead slug...it is still not a coin.

If I find a proxy, but the description doesn't say it was a proxy, I'll probably be leaving it. Not saying I am "against" proxy. Just dont want some coin owner to add me to the list of suspects of folks who made the switch.

Yes...coins are expensive. So is the GPS unit. Or the I-Phone to put the geo-app on. To say nothing of the 3 dollar a gallon gas, which is still going to climb. Let's face it... geocaching can become an expense hobby. So are season tickets to my favorite basketball team. Only difference, I would much rather be participating, and not just a spectator.

So, after some serious thinking, I finally made a decision. To keep from going way too far, I have a budget. $30 a week. If the coin is $10 and under, I will buy 3 each time I buy coins. One for me, one for trading and one to let loose in the wild. For the more expensive, since I can only buy 2, I just drop the wild-release.

I also agree with you - drilling a hole is maybe the best way to keep the coin in the wild. And today, I had a chance to order coins. Because I was making up for the weeks I was in Nigeria, I was able to order 10 different coins. (three of each). And I still have some more money in my burn-budget, so I will be ordering some more sets.

When they come in, I will be following your advice. I will be drilling a hole in the coin, and yes, I will be deliberately defacing the coin. And no...I dont consider this blasphemy. What I do consider bad form is keeping the coins which are supposed to stay in play.

To give my coin a little bit more of a chance to survive in the wild, I have also decided to give it a very specific mission. By this, I mean... I will just pick someone from the Forum who has more finds than I do, and make one of their caches my final mission. (I had someone from California in mind, but have since found all of their caches have been disabled).

Another thing I will be planning on doing, is always using the more difficult caches as drop sites. I think most coin thieves are just sitting back, watching the notification list and looking for easy spots. If they want to steal a coin.... then work for it. No PNG, no 1/1 or TB Hotels. Head out and be ready to bushwack. I bushwacked to get there, coin thief, you can do the same.

February 24, 2011

I don't really care for proxies. There are numerous threads on putting a wooden disc with photocopies or a washer with photocopies out in the wild. For me, you will probably never see the coin again, so why not drill it, deface it and attach something to it....

i don't see much difference in defacing a coin and sending out a heavy duty proxy. would rather keep a nice undefaced coin at home and send out the copy. defacing a coin is blasphemy!

speaking of theft, as soon as i saw this cache come up i thought "uh oh" - sure enough, two logs later a dnf.

listing a coin vault cache is a sure invitation to coin thieves. i hope the cache is just "mis-hidden" and not stolen. but looking at the difficulty level i fear the worst. there really isn't any point to releasing a real coin any longer.

GC2P2RQ

thanks for the site number - checked it out, but it looks like the most recent log is a Find. Perhaps the DNF was just that..a DNF. I guess another lesson for me to learn from checking out the cache - someone with 8,000 finds might know how to make a good hide.

February 24, 2011

Just dont want some coin owner to add me to the list of suspects of folks who made the switch.

That would suck. I've never released a proxy, but I think that putting proxy in the title is a good idea for this reason alone. I wouldn't want anyone getting accused of anything like that. It's another reason that I really like people who pick my coins up to take pictures, and why I take a ton of pictures for people whose coins I'm moving along.

Yes...coins are expensive. So is the GPS unit. Or the I-Phone to put the geo-app on. To say nothing of the 3 dollar a gallon gas, which is still going to climb. Let's face it... geocaching can become an expense hobby. So are season tickets to my favorite basketball team. Only difference, I would much rather be participating, and not just a spectator.

This part you lost me on. These comparisons do not work. Your GPS being expensive would be a player if you were handing it over to me to move to the next cache for you. The gas isn't something that's being trusted to other people. These are all things that are designed for YOU to use. The coins you're putting out there for EVERYONE to use.

I certainly don't trust everyone the way I trust me.

February 24, 2011

says DocWahala "...If they want to steal a coin.... then work for it. No PNG, no 1/1 or TB Hotels. Head out and be ready to bushwack. I bushwacked to get there, coin thief, you can do the same..."

LOL!! LOVE your spirit! thanks for the giggle.

February 24, 2011

Just dont want some coin owner to add me to the list of suspects of folks who made the switch.

That would suck. I've never released a proxy, but I think that putting proxy in the title is a good idea for this reason alone. I wouldn't want anyone getting accused of anything like that. It's another reason that I really like people who pick my coins up to take pictures, and why I take a ton of pictures for people whose coins I'm moving along.

Yes...coins are expensive. So is the GPS unit. Or the I-Phone to put the geo-app on. To say nothing of the 3 dollar a gallon gas, which is still going to climb. Let's face it... geocaching can become an expense hobby. So are season tickets to my favorite basketball team. Only difference, I would much rather be participating, and not just a spectator.

This part you lost me on. These comparisons do not work. Your GPS being expensive would be a player if you were handing it over to me to move to the next cache for you. The gas isn't something that's being trusted to other people. These are all things that are designed for YOU to use. The coins you're putting out there for EVERYONE to use.

I certainly don't trust everyone the way I trust me.

Yes.. the gas I use is based on a certain amount of trust. My trust that the person has actually set out a cache. My trust that the CO isn't leading me out to someplace where the game is less than honorable (I think about the CO who decided it was "funny" to place an ammo can in the center of a thirty foot circle of cactus with two inch barbs).

I guess what I was trying to respond to is the typical "coins are expensive" thread. There's a lot about geocaching that is expensive. No one says we have to buy a coin, but to decide expense is the one reason you wont release a coin, ... well...I go back to a very true statement: "Dont release something you are not ready to part with."

Rather than argue about Proxy and coin thieves....what we should be doing is trying to find ways as coin-loving community, to discourage coin-thieves. Perhaps Geospeak should be doing more, because if not, eventually, the only people who will buy coins, are the coin collectors. And when that happens, why go through the extra expense of putting tracking numbers? As I see it, drilling a hole is just another great way to discourage coin thieves.

There's plenty which could be done.... it is just a matter of discussing it. (I even have a list of ideas. Eventually, I'll post it).

February 24, 2011

Short of surveillance on caches known to have coins consistently disappear, I just don't see what can possibly be done about coin thieves. Heck, more than half of the time it's not even coin thieves. It's noobs who don't understand what they've picked up. It's folks who get into caching, pick up coins, and then lose interest. It's coins lost in seat cushions or the bottom of a backpack.

I completely agree, DocWahala, with your "Dont release something you are not ready to part with" attitude. But when folks buy coins, one way or the other, they're theirs to do with as they please, and that includes releasing proxies or not releasing the coins at all.

Everybody can participate, and nobody has to participate. I'm good with it either way. More than I'm a fan of coins, I'm a fan of moving trackables. A nice looking coin and a new icon is a nice bonus though.

Live and let live, I guess.

February 24, 2011

says DocWahala "...If they want to steal a coin.... then work for it. No PNG, no 1/1 or TB Hotels. Head out and be ready to bushwack. I bushwacked to get there, coin thief, you can do the same..."

LOL!! LOVE your spirit! thanks for the giggle.

Want another laugh? I said I would be giving cache specific missions for the coins I release; and whenever the first one comes in, I will send it out to GC1VT4E.

Just hope you don't mind seeing a hole in the coin. But if it gets there, it's yours.

DocWahala

February 24, 2011

Short of surveillance on caches known to have coins consistently disappear, I just don't see what can possibly be done about coin thieves. Heck, more than half of the time it's not even coin thieves. It's noobs who don't understand what they've picked up. It's folks who get into caching, pick up coins, and then lose interest. It's coins lost in seat cushions or the bottom of a backpack.

Nah, I dont think Ill be able to rig up surveillance cameras. Because then I'll want to make it a web cam, which I'll have to monitor all day. And then we'll have camera theives. LOL.

Seriously, talking about surveillance.... has anyone ever stopped and realized there is surveillance? And that the coin thieves use it? I'm talking about the Notification system. It's one thing to have the State page list the last 5 or 10 caches placed, but why keep the section which lists TBs moved? Dont even need to be Premium member to use it. Just watch it and when a GC.com says a coin has moved, pretty sure the coin thief is moving out too. Sure, I understand that at one time knowing a TB had just moved into your area might have motivated some geocacher to go find it, but those days are long gone.

It's an open invitation to thiefs. Make them work for that coin! In fact, get rid of the icon listing on the cache page. Am not saying get rid of icons. You find the coin, you get the icon. But why put a big red flag on a cache just to say "skip all the other caches, Im the one you want for your e* store!"

Yeah...make it harder for coin thieves (Or like my 5 year old calls them... "Lex Luther"). It wont completely eradicate coin thieves, but it will make it harder for them. Imagine that...they would have to be like the rest of us...visiting dozens of caches, just to get that surprise of ACTUALLY finding something.

I completely agree, DocWahala, with your "Dont release something you are not ready to part with" attitude. But when folks buy coins, one way or the other, they're theirs to do with as they please, and that includes releasing proxies or not releasing the coins at all.

Everybody can participate, and nobody has to participate. I'm good with it either way. More than I'm a fan of coins, I'm a fan of moving trackables. A nice looking coin and a new icon is a nice bonus though.

Live and let live, I guess.

My original response says the only proxy I wont move is the one which is not listed on the description as proxy.

And you're right... once they buy the coin, they can do just about anything they want with it (except buy a cup of coffee with it.... or pay for another gallon of gas! chuckle). The one thing they can't do, is call it a coin. It's a proxy. It's not the real thing. (no matter how much I call a gallon jug of water "proxy", it's still water, and not gasoline).

There might be one more thing a person might not be able to do..and that is release the proxy in the wild, and still show off the real one for letting others discover it. If that was the case, I am pretty sure GeoSpeak wouldnt have a problem with me buying one TB # and using it 20 times for the 20 matchbox cars I want to release. But then again, maybe I am wrong and GeoSpeak actually allows that.

Just remember...even if I purchase a music CD, somewhere inside the cover, it does say I am not allowed to make an electronic copy of the artwork. (wink)

DocWahala

February 24, 2011

says DocWahala "...If they want to steal a coin.... then work for it. No PNG, no 1/1 or TB Hotels. Head out and be ready to bushwack. I bushwacked to get there, coin thief, you can do the same..."

LOL!! LOVE your spirit! thanks for the giggle.

Want another laugh? I said I would be giving cache specific missions for the coins I release; and whenever the first one comes in, I will send it out to GC1VT4E.

Just hope you don't mind seeing a hole in the coin. But if it gets there, it's yours.

DocWahala

Cool. We will be on the lookout for it, and if you ever get out this way yourself give a holla- we love to meet geocachers.

3.4k · February 24, 2011

...
thanks for the site number - checked it out, but it looks like the most recent log is a Find. Perhaps the DNF was just that..a DNF. I guess another lesson for me to learn from checking out the cache - someone with 8,000 finds might know how to make a good hide.

good point. i do hope the dnf was just a DNF as well. hate to see a nice coin vault cache go missing right away. it will be interesting to see what happens this weekend.

if i had a working vehicle i would go down and check it out myself as it is only about 30 miles from me.

rsg

To lower the risk of theft can I...

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