+gsmX2 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 The E.T. Series (1027 caches spaced about .1 mile apart) and the Route 66 Series (800 similarly spaced caches) have written a new chapter in the Book of Geocaching: Ultimate Power Caching. They have also created two sub-chapters: Cache Swapping Leapfrogging. Cache Swapping (or Moving) is the practice of picking up a cache, replacing it with one that has a log you or your group has signed, and signing the log as you drive to the next cache, where you will repeat the process. Leapfrogging is the practice of having two or more cars working together and alternating caches, for example one car gets all the even numbered caches and the other car gets all of the odd numbered caches. Without diverting this thread to discuss Ultimate Power Caches, if you were to do one of these series, would you Cache Swap and/or LeapFrog? Quote Link to comment
+gsmX2 Posted February 21, 2011 Author Share Posted February 21, 2011 Did both series; used both practices. Quote Link to comment
+the4dirtydogs Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 The E.T. Series (1027 caches spaced about .1 mile apart) and the Route 66 Series (800 similarly spaced caches) have written a new chapter in the Book of Geocaching: Ultimate Power Caching. They have also created two sub-chapters: Cache Swapping Leapfrogging. Cache Swapping (or Moving) is the practice of picking up a cache, replacing it with one that has a log you or your group has signed, and signing the log as you drive to the next cache, where you will repeat the process. Leapfrogging is the practice of having two or more cars working together and alternating caches, for example one car gets all the even numbered caches and the other car gets all of the odd numbered caches. Without diverting this thread to discuss Ultimate Power Caches, if you were to do one of these series, would you Cache Swap and/or LeapFrog? I have done both trails and not traveled any caches nor have I Leapfrogged. There is no reason to practice either method. You are not receiving a medal or prize for how fast you can go or how many you can find in a day. If that's the way you play it's doesn't bother me any. Would you like me to swap out all your hiking trail caches when I go do them? Quote Link to comment
GOF and Bacall Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 In the unlikely event I was to do one of the power trails I would not use those lame ways to cache. If you leapfrog you have only found half, or less, of the caches. Cache swapping is less lame, but only slightly. By moving the caches you have invalidated the logs inside. In other words the signatures end up in caches never visited by those users who cached before you. Quote Link to comment
knowschad Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 When do caches become part of a power trail, and therefore subject to these new "rules"? Quote Link to comment
+Semper Questio Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 No leapfrogging, no swapping, no power trails for me. Quote Link to comment
+ChileHead Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Absolutely not. While swapping seems a cheesy way to bump your numbers up, at least you physically visited each one. Leapfrogging is just lying to yourself. If leapfrogging is ok for two cars, why not get 8 cars setup: car 1 does 1,5,9,13,... car 2 does 2,6,10,14,.... car 3 does 3,7,11,15,.... car 4 does 4,8,12,16,... from the other end of the trail, cars 5-8 do the same thing, but starting at cache 1000. You could do the entire series in a few hours and then go brag about how you set a new world record for most number of caches found in 4 hours. Quote Link to comment
+zoltig Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) The E.T. Series (1027 caches spaced about .1 mile apart) and the Route 66 Series (800 similarly spaced caches) have written a new chapter in the Book of Geocaching: Ultimate Power Caching. <snip> Just drive by them and mark them as a find...same results. You are only cheating yourself. EDIT to say I noticed in your statgen it says "Don't work too hard at having fun" Edited February 21, 2011 by zoltig Quote Link to comment
Mr.Yuck Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 The E.T. Series (1027 caches spaced about .1 mile apart) and the Route 66 Series (800 similarly spaced caches) have written a new chapter in the Book of Geocaching: Ultimate Power Caching. They have also created two sub-chapters: Cache Swapping Leapfrogging. Cache Swapping (or Moving) is the practice of picking up a cache, replacing it with one that has a log you or your group has signed, and signing the log as you drive to the next cache, where you will repeat the process. Leapfrogging is the practice of having two or more cars working together and alternating caches, for example one car gets all the even numbered caches and the other car gets all of the odd numbered caches. Without diverting this thread to discuss Ultimate Power Caches, if you were to do one of these series, would you Cache Swap and/or LeapFrog? Thanks for starting the new thread. No, I would not practice either. I agree with Gof, the "leapfrogging" seems much more cheesy to me than the "container swapping". Quote Link to comment
+gsmX2 Posted February 21, 2011 Author Share Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) I have done both trails and not traveled any caches nor have I Leapfrogged. There is no reason to practice either method. You are not receiving a medal or prize for how fast you can go or how many you can find in a day. If that's the way you play it's doesn't bother me any. Would you like me to swap out all your hiking trail caches when I go do them? The4DirtyDogs: I commend you...well done. Edited February 21, 2011 by gsmx2 Quote Link to comment
+TerraViators Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) If leapfrogging, be innovative. Assemble 1,027 different cachers on a team, each finds ONE cache...that would be a new world record, by far! If replacing containers, just throw 1,027 identical containers at #513 or #514, right in the middle. Sure the coords are going to be off on all of them, but hey, this is a race, right? Edited February 21, 2011 by TerraViators Quote Link to comment
+Max and 99 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 You cannot be serious! People really do this? Shameful! Quote Link to comment
+Ecylram Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Oh goodie...another power trail thread to argue over details. With any cache, on a power trail or not, anybody can claim a find. The CO has the option to delete illigitimate finds. The guidelines do not explicitly ban leapfrogging or container exchanges. (Not everybody agrees with that statement, as you'll soon see. Even if the CO opposes those practices there is no way for the CO to know that happened if the cachers don't volunteer that information. I don't don't see that happening in the logs. I'd like to see, and have considered creating, a power/speed caching standard where a cacher writes in their log as to whether the standard was met. My (imaginary) version of a Power/speed trail standard would not allow for the use of leapfrogging or container swapping. Quote Link to comment
+the4dirtydogs Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 The E.T. Series (1027 caches spaced about .1 mile apart) and the Route 66 Series (800 similarly spaced caches) have written a new chapter in the Book of Geocaching: Ultimate Power Caching. <snip> Just drive by them and mark them as a find...same results. You are only cheating yourself. EDIT to say I noticed in your statgen it says "Don't work too hard at having fun" Why waste the gas. Just armchair log'em nobody is checking the logs. Quote Link to comment
+zoltig Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 The E.T. Series (1027 caches spaced about .1 mile apart) and the Route 66 Series (800 similarly spaced caches) have written a new chapter in the Book of Geocaching: Ultimate Power Caching. <snip> Just drive by them and mark them as a find...same results. You are only cheating yourself. EDIT to say I noticed in your statgen it says "Don't work too hard at having fun" Why waste the gas. Just armchair log'em nobody is checking the logs. BRILLIANT! Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) IF I were to do one of these power trails (unlikely) I would not container swap. I'm a geocacher and that ain't geocaching. It can also inconvenience or confuse other geocachers. If my group "leapfrogged" (which I would think entirely misses the point of doing a power trail) I'd only log finds on the caches that my group found and only if I actually got out of the car and looked. Edited February 21, 2011 by briansnat Quote Link to comment
+G & C Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I have less of a problem with leapfrogging than I do container swapping. I've never done a power trail, but I imagine I'll find myself up at the Route 66 trail eventually since it's so close to home. Doubtful that we'd employ either practice, but I wouldn't rule leapfrogging out as a possibility. Just being honest. Quote Link to comment
+DadOf6Furrballs Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I was thinking... (I would never actually do this) but if 1000+ smileys meant THAT much to me, I would just tell everyone I was flying down there, not really going mind you, just claiming I did, lay low for about 4 days, then copy/paste log them all from the comfort of home. Who would know? Nobody's actually checking the logs, right? Sure, we've done 2 mini "power trails" recently. Around 100 caches or so each. Yes, we had fun. But we did each one honestly. (our personal definition) GPS coords to each and every cache, physically signed every log, and left the cache in that exact spot for the next person. That's just the way we play the game. Just my extremely opinionated 2¢, but I think this smiley obsession is becoming a quasi-religion of sorts. "Ye who racks up the most smileys gets a bigger mansion in heaven" or something. Whatever. Quote Link to comment
+Panther&Pine Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I won't be trying to beat any Power Trail records any time soon, but I don't think either of those are in the spirit of geocaching. That is the nicest wording I could come up with. Quote Link to comment
+NeecesandNephews Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) I just found this thread after I mistakenly posted my thoughts on the "video only" thread. ( sorry about that)After reading along and giving it some thought, I have decided to put an absolutely fabulous positive spin on this situation. I feel pretty darn good about it... the smug satisfaction that comes with me thinking " I have possibly actually found, signed, and logged MORE caches than you have!!!" Just to save everyone some time, my number is currently 313!! And to answer the original question.... NO. Edited February 21, 2011 by NeecesandNephews Quote Link to comment
Clan Riffster Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I've done one power trail, the "Easy" series, near Lakeland. Local scuttlebutt claimed that this series was the proverbial straw which broke the camel's back, causing Groundspeak to start enforcing the old power trail guideline. Not sure how true that is, but it sounded good at the time. Upon hearing of this rumor, a friend and I drove down there to do the series, in celebration of the ban. It was only 36 caches, which probably wouldn't even qualify as a power trail by today's standards, but with every hide done the same way, and copy/paste cache pages, it certainly had that feel. After the second or third find, I was over it. For the most part, GPS use proved unnecessary, as the hide techniques were so similar. My brain is not built for mindless repetition. Holding my nose, I struggled through to the final. With that in mind, it would take some pretty powerful incentive for me to do another power trail. If I did do another one, I would find each cache and return it from whence it came. No leapfrogging & no cache swapping. Quote Link to comment
+jmw61 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I'd have to go with a wouldn't. On froggin', swappin' or PT'in . Quote Link to comment
+Castle Mischief Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Nope. Neither. T'aint geocaching. T'is relay-racing with automobiles. Quote Link to comment
+Gitchee-Gummee Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Simply... no, to both questions asked. So how is the "vote" going? Quote Link to comment
knowschad Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Sure are a lot of "t'aints" in this thread. I guess those with the opposite opinions are out powercaching. Quote Link to comment
+StarBrand Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I might do the leapfrogging - but only if I logged the exact 50% caches that I found myself and left bthe other 50% as unfound. Container swapping seems somewhat akin of just throwing pre-signed containers at the ground where your unit says GZ is at. So the answer is "NO". Having said that - if "power trails" and power caching are going to be accepted = somebody ought to write down some basic guidelines to follow while out doing it. Otherwise chaos rules. Quote Link to comment
+Chokecherry Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I would set up an event where hopefully 100 like minded people would join me each with their own car. Then really we each only have to 10 caches and we get to log an event too for a bonus smiley. Just kidding. I'm not into the power trail thing. I'm not even into series for the most part (get bored after one or two). So I likely wouldn't even consider this. The cache owners of the caches I find typically do not want me to move their ammo cans and other containers. Quote Link to comment
+Ike 13 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Never done a power trail. And I would not use either practice. It's not about the numbers Quote Link to comment
Mr.Yuck Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Sure are a lot of "t'aints" in this thread. I guess those with the opposite opinions are out powercaching. No, I think I will disagree. The number of "high numbers" Geocachers out there is actually pretty small. And not all "high numbers" Geocachers are doing these things; I mentioned in the other thread before it was split off that I knew some people in the 6,000-10,000 find range who had no intention of doing either when they're out there. So even though we always hear how the forums are a bunch of loudmouths and don't represent reality, I myself do believe a huge majority of Geocachers agree these practices aren't in the spirit of Geocaching. Quote Link to comment
+ocklawahaboy Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Ok, my idea of a power trail is a dirt road in the Ocala National Forest that has a couple of dozen hides in close succession that have been placed by various cachers using various techniques. That makes for a fun afternoon and some good numbers. Both of the speed techniques sound down right dishonest. One serious question though. For those of you who move the containers: what do you do with the last container and log at the end of the run? Do you return it to the original spot of the first cache? Pocket it? Trash it? As I've read the various threads on the subject I've wondered what a "good cacher" does with a container and log that is not theirs and suddenly has no logical home because they've just rearranged everything. Quote Link to comment
+Ecylram Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 My best guess is that even those that like to do Power Trails are generally opposed to leapfrogging and container swapping. Most people who do the power trails aren't going for the type of time record that requires those extreme techniques. On the E.T. trail, most just cache for a few hours to get the flavor of the activity, try it in one day without those techniques and others spread the caching over two or three days. Quote Link to comment
sabrefan7 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I would rather be arrested for public intoxication on the Vegas Strip than do that power trail in Nevada. It would be a darn site more fun Quote Link to comment
+Corp Of Discovery Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Let me think about this.... Never mind, don't need to. No and no. Quote Link to comment
+cheech gang Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Frog swapping and container leaping? I just don't get it. Quote Link to comment
+Happy Humphrey Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Cache Swapping (or Moving) is the practice of picking up a cache, replacing it with one that has a log you or your group has signed, and signing the log as you drive to the next cache, where you will repeat the process. As that prevents the cache owner checking the log of the cache he/she placed, it's a muggling. Clearly, placing your own container at the cache site invalidates your "find" (etiquette is that you only replace the cache if the original is found to be in a really poor state). So that's two "wrongs"; does that make a "right"? IMO the power trail isn't about bypassing normal etiquette. You can still log every cache in the series, and record your time. Obviously, to claim a "record" you have to actually search for every cache you log (not just sit in the car!), and the cache has to be found and signed (not a replacement!). Power trails have the advantage of being easy caches close together. No further aid is necessary. Quote Link to comment
2oldfarts (the rockhounders) Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I have less of a problem with leapfrogging than I do container swapping. I've never done a power trail, but I imagine I'll find myself up at the Route 66 trail eventually since it's so close to home. Doubtful that we'd employ either practice, but I wouldn't rule leapfrogging out as a possibility. Just being honest. Be honest now. If it were a 50 cal. ammo can and all you had was a 30 cal. ammo can, would you swap it? Besides, I am really to old to go leap frogging around and swapping is out for us also. I just couldn't get used to a new partner...... What were we talking about? Ohhh..... Never mind...... Shirley~ -------------------------------- Quote Link to comment
4wheelin_fool Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Why would someone find them all anyway, if the logs are being shuffled around constantly? Just do the first 3, and one every mile or so. Is it really more ethical to find them all, but swap all the containers around? Or to leapfrog with a team and to find every fourth one? If the logs are not going to be checked, then what is the purpose of this? Quote Link to comment
+humboldt flier Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 No. Nor have I used the drop in a pre-signed piece of paper technique. Quote Link to comment
+humboldt flier Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I have less of a problem with leapfrogging than I do container swapping. I've never done a power trail, but I imagine I'll find myself up at the Route 66 trail eventually since it's so close to home. Doubtful that we'd employ either practice, but I wouldn't rule leapfrogging out as a possibility. Just being honest. Be honest now. If it were a 50 cal. ammo can and all you had was a 30 cal. ammo can, would you swap it? Besides, I am really to old to go leap frogging around and swapping is out for us also. I just couldn't get used to a new partner...... What were we talking about? Ohhh..... Never mind...... Shirley~ -------------------------------- Tsk, Tsk, Tsk and a major belly LOL Quote Link to comment
+NeecesandNephews Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 You know... I think I may have figured out the logic!!! If you sign your name to the log in the first cache, every time a "Caching Sheep" group comes through, your name would be in the next cache. Another group?? Your name is now on the log of the third cache!! And so on, and so on... Sign one... it will eventually be in each of the 800 cache locations!! Brilliant!!! Quote Link to comment
+M 5 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) Just do the 1st one, and the whenever a new team logs the trail, log the next cache in the series. Eventually your signed log will reach every place. EASY!!! HAHA. We had the same idea neecesandnephews Edited February 21, 2011 by M 5 Quote Link to comment
+NeecesandNephews Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Just do the 1st one, and the whenever a new team logs the trail, log the next cache in the series. Eventually your signed log will reach every place. EASY!!! HAHA. We had the same idea neecesandnephews Quote Link to comment
+secretagentbill Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Leapfrogging seems silly to me. You'd only be able to log half of the finds. Why would you go do the ET trail and only do every other one? ... Cache swapping doesn't seem as wrong to me, but it's still pretty lame. Just open the container and sign the log. Are we really that lazy? OK, maybe it is wrong Quote Link to comment
GOF and Bacall Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Just do the 1st one, and the whenever a new team logs the trail, log the next cache in the series. Eventually your signed log will reach every place. EASY!!! HAHA. We had the same idea neecesandnephews Then some leap frogger will come along and screw up your system. Quote Link to comment
4wheelin_fool Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 (edited) You'd have to wait until each new team moved it one place to log a find on the next one. It would take 800 visitors before it would reach the end. If you did every 50th one and kept track, it would be more realistic. The leap froggers dont actally move caches, they act as a team and hop over each other while making fun of Signal. Edited February 21, 2011 by 4wheelin_fool Quote Link to comment
+gpicard Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 The closest to a power trail I have done is a couple of Rails to Trails. I would not cache using either approach. Boooooo! Quote Link to comment
+tomfuller & Quill Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 I was at the event in Barstow on Dec. 31 when the Route 66 power trail was announced. I was invited along by MacAttk who only logged 450 on Jan. 1. There were "spare" 35mm cans with blank logs handed out at the event. MacAttk actually hid one of those and named it NOT Route 66. Instead of going along with him, I went out by myself and walked over 4 miles completing the California Smilie. At least I have a more interesting shape to show on the map. When I go back to the area, I will probably do the Pac-Man. As I understand it, the ET highway power trail had all of the caches in Nye County removed by the road crew. I know the Bubblegummers who replaced some of them with blank log caches. I'm guessing the originals ended up in a landfill. If a log is wet or unsignable, I will add my card or dry paper and let the CO know with a NM. No swapping of caches or logs and surely do not let other cachers sign my name to caches that I don't touch. Quote Link to comment
knowschad Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 When do caches become part of a power trail, and therefore subject to these new "rules"? I've heard a lot of opinions, but nobody has tried yet to answer what I think may be the most important issue of this whole debate (see above). When does it become OK to swap caches and/or to leapfrog finds? When the caches were all put out by the same person/group? When the caches are all within 0.1 mile of each other? When they are all micros? When they are in Nevada? When you feel like it? When the nearby inn has a supply of replacement containers for you? Quote Link to comment
GOF and Bacall Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 When do caches become part of a power trail, and therefore subject to these new "rules"? I've heard a lot of opinions, but nobody has tried yet to answer what I think may be the most important issue of this whole debate (see above). When does it become OK to swap caches and/or to leapfrog finds? When the caches were all put out by the same person/group? When the caches are all within 0.1 mile of each other? When they are all micros? When they are in Nevada? When you feel like it? When the nearby inn has a supply of replacement containers for you? I look at the answers here and I have to think that the answer to your question is never. The overwhelming response has been that both practices are unacceptable for powertrail caching. So when a cache becomes part of a power trail is therefore irrelevant. They never become subject to rules that don't exist. Quote Link to comment
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