Do I have to swap trackables like swag.. i.e. 1 for 1 ?

[+Gruff-ScoutLeader]

I have received a complaint from a cache owner - about a fellow cacher (who is a member of my Scout Troop.

 

The complaint is that this cacher has visited the geocache on three occasions, and has removed three trackables. (Two she has moved on with me and one she still has until she goes geocaching next weekend)

 

The cache owner says it is unacceptable for her to:

a) Visit her cache more than once.

"Strip the cache bare" (quote) of trackables.

c) Not leave a trackable in place of one taken... i.e., 1 for 1 - as we do with Swag.

 

The cache owner is threatening to remove the cache if she visits it again.

 

The main reasons she has revisited this cache is - she is introducing new people to geocaching - and this cache is in the graveyard of the church next to the school.

 

I thought that it is acceptable to revisit geocaches with the sole intention of picking up trackables to move them on. (As stated here: http://support.Groundspeak.com//index.php?pg=kb.page&id=148)

 

I was also under the impression that the "swapping like for like/of equal value" didn't apply to trackables. Meaning if you discover a coin/bug you can "grab" it to move it - even if you don't have a bug/coin to swap it with.

 

Can anyone clear this up for me... do we have to "swap" trackables as we do with Swag?

[+The Blorenges]

Yes, yes, yes, a, b, c, they're all OK.

 

MrsB

[+The Blorenges]

As I was going to elabourate before someone called at our door...

 

Trackables are not treated the same as swag. As long as your friend can retrieve the trackables and move them along (following their missions as far as possible) in timely manner they can pick up as many as they want. You are correct - you don't have to swap trackable for trackable - and caches can be visited as many times as your friend wants to do so. (It's usual to note subsequent visits with "Note" logs, not "Found it" logs, btw)

 

MrsB

[+keewee]

I have received a complaint from a cache owner - about a fellow cacher (who is a member of my Scout Troop.

 

The complaint is that this cacher has visited the geocache on three occasions, and has removed three trackables. (Two she has moved on with me and one she still has until she goes geocaching next weekend)

 

The cache owner says it is unacceptable for her to:

a) Visit her cache more than once.

"Strip the cache bare" (quote) of trackables.

c) Not leave a trackable in place of one taken... i.e., 1 for 1 - as we do with Swag.

 

The cache owner is threatening to remove the cache if she visits it again.

 

The main reasons she has revisited this cache is - she is introducing new people to geocaching - and this cache is in the graveyard of the church next to the school.

 

I thought that it is acceptable to revisit geocaches with the sole intention of picking up trackables to move them on. (As stated here: http://support.Groundspeak.com//index.php?pg=kb.page&id=148)

 

I was also under the impression that the "swapping like for like/of equal value" didn't apply to trackables. Meaning if you discover a coin/bug you can "grab" it to move it - even if you don't have a bug/coin to swap it with.

 

Can anyone clear this up for me... do we have to "swap" trackables as we do with Swag?

 

Hi,

 

You are correct that when moving on trackables you do not need to swap, you can simply grab them and move them on.

 

There is no reason why someone cannot travel a cache more than once, BUT put yourself in the cache owners shoes (Really - look at it from their perspective) - the trackables help attract people to their cache and to have them continuously removed by the one person would be bloody annoying if I was the cache owner! If they were being removed by those whom she is introducing to geocaching (under their profiles, not hers) then they'd probably be no issue.

 

Similarly if she was also moving trackables into that cache then would probably also alleviate issue.

 

Also, if she is teaching people about geocaching, there is no need that she remove the trackables each time she visits. It would probably be a good idea if she posted on the cache page, or replied to the cache owner and just be upfront and let them know what she is doing.

 

One last thing to consider is that if there is a trackable in the geocache, by all means visit the geocache and discover it, but don't remove the trackable unless it has been languishing in the geocache for a number of weeks.

 

These are all my opinions, but I think they'd go a long way to helping the situation.

[+luckycharmer]

MrsB is correct. Your scout is doing nothing wrong. Some owners want to keep trackables in their caches because they attract other cachers. If your scout ever gets a chance to drop a trackable back in it might smooth ruffled feathers but not necessary. Even if you find one she could grab it from you and then place it.

 

If your scout is just starting, I recommend that she gets in the habit of mentioning the trackable in her on line log. It helps the TB/COIN owner and "watchers" follow them a little more.

 

A big THANK YOU to you for getting your scout involved and assisting whenever possible.

[+Isonzo Karst]

If the cache owner wants to have trackables in the cache that are to be treated like swag, ie, trade one for one, she should purchase a number of TBs and mark them this way for release in her own cache.

Once they're gone, she'll have to do it again. She certainly CAN ask to have a "one for one" rule for HER OWN BUGS.

 

Most TB owners want their TBs to move.

They're not interested in "her" cache has TBs in it.

 

If they were being removed by those whom she is introducing to geocaching (under their profiles, not hers) then they'd probably be no issue.

 

This seems like an excellent suggestion from keewee.

Edited April 25, 2011 by Isonzo Karst

[+luckycharmer]

A bit off topic but another suggestion would be, if you or your scout feels comfortable, how about placing a cache in a convenient area. You could give it a scouting theme or just try to keep it "kid interesting".

 

Most important though is HAVE FUN and keep encouraging the kids.

[+BlueDeuce]

BUT put yourself in the cache owners shoes (Really - look at it from their perspective) - the trackables help attract people to their cache and to have them continuously removed by the one person would be bloody annoying if I was the cache owner!

 

My travelers are meant to move. A cache owner has absolutely no business saying who can and cannot move my bugs or coins.

 

bd

Edited April 25, 2011 by BlueDeuce

[+LewisClan77]

A cache with 1 for 1 trading restrictions on the bugs are known as TB Prisons. I like to go find them and liberate all the bugs from the cache.

[+Eartha]

You can tell the cache owner that Eartha, Groundspeak Volunteer said Trackables are not trade items. Cachers do not need to trade one for one. The goal of the Trackable item supercedes the wishes of the cache owner. Trackables are game pieces belonging to the trackable owner, not to the cache owner, so the cache owner cannot dictate their movement, or let them stall out and languish, waiting to be traded. Move them bugs! Take one, take two, take them all. Just don't hold on to them too long.

Send the cache owner a link to this thread, and maybe they will read the forums and learn all about TB angst.

If you were a guest in a hotel, how would you like it if the manager said you couldn't leave until another guest showed up to take your place?

[+Droo]

Something your scout can do when bringing new cachers to this particular cache is note any kind of maintenance done AND encourage the newbs to log the find crediting her for bringing them to it. So rather than detracting from the appeal of the cache to attract visitors the CO can see the opposite is really the case. Dropping a traveler once in a while, as others have mentioned, is good politics too.

 

If the CO persists on placing demands on the legit actions of others then he should be encouraged to remove the cache so another can hidden in its place that more closely follows the guidelines.

 

BTW, stripping the cache is typically a reference to removing the good swag a cache owner might have placed in the cache to make it more appealing. That swag can be considered the CO's property but not the travelers that have been dropped in it, those belong the owners who released them.

[+mrcanoehead224]

If you were a guest in a hotel, how would you like it if the manager said you couldn't leave until another guest showed up to take your place?

Ha, I love it. Great analogy. Lots of good input from others too.

 

My personal opinion, as already stated by others is TBs are meant to move. In fact, some of mine even state that in their missions (no trades required). Help them move if you can, even if it's only a few hundred metres. As a TB owner, I like pictures of my TBs at their locations too.

 

The only exception I have, which is a personal preference, is that I won't empty all trackables out a cache that's listed as a TB hotel/ hostel/ campground/ lodge/ layover/ bunkhouse, etc. In my mind, this makes it more attractive for subsequent visitors. But if the feeling hits me, I will discover anything that's there.

 

As far as multiple visits to a cache, I say go for it as long as it's done respectfully. I've done the same at several caches when I introduce new people as well. Personally, I am honoured when an established cacher chooses my cache as a way to introduce someone new.

[+Landsharkz]

We often lead geocaching seminars and we visit the same caches over an over again because of their proximity to the facility we use and the nice easy access/terrain, parking, etc. The caches we take these newbies to are owned BY US, not other cachers.

 

Perhaps your scouter friend could hide a cache or two and then take the students to those caches. Also, if they want to teach about trackables they could activate one trackable tag of their own to use for demonstration purposes with the classes, even going so far as to go out before the class and placing it in the cache.

 

Depending on the location/venue, we sometimes hide 'fake' caches on the grounds of schools or rec centres to use that day only.

 

Not all people who learn about caching are going to be respectful cachers. I know a cacher in town who has had school kids return with their friends over and over again to her cache on her back fence to 'trade'. It was used by a teacher in a nearby school used to demonstrate geocaching to her class. This can be pretty frustrating when the kids continually trade out your good swag for their trinkets.

 

There's lots of good reasons not to use existing caches for classes, unless they're YOUR existing caches.

Edited April 26, 2011 by Landsharkz

[+Eartha]

If you were a guest in a hotel, how would you like it if the manager said you couldn't leave until another guest showed up to take your place?

Ha, I love it. Great analogy. Lots of good input from others...-snip-

 

Yes, I liked it when Blue Deuce used it, so I use it too.

[+Dolfy]

It's interesting that a cache not too far from me was just archived yesterday for just this reason. Maybe the cache owner needs a refresher course on travelers.

 

Route 31 Travel Bug Hotel

[avroair]

BUT put yourself in the cache owners shoes (Really - look at it from their perspective) - the trackables help attract people to their cache and to have them continuously removed by the one person would be bloody annoying if I was the cache owner!

 

My travelers are meant to move. A cache owner has absolutely no business saying who can and cannot move my bugs or coins.

 

bd

 

That's an extreme way to look at it I guess. I don't follow bugs in and out of my caches closely to see who are picking them up, but I do like them to move.

[avroair]

You can tell the cache owner that Eartha, Groundspeak Volunteer said Trackables are not trade items.

 

I don't think that's the issue, it's more an issue of the same person raiding the cache over and over... perfectly legit, but a tad low on etiquette. It's like when you put cookies out in the kitchen at the office... you put them out to share. It's annoying when one person makes 4-5 trips and ends up with 90% of them... that too is legit, but poor on manners... Whereas I want bugs to move and sometimes you need a person to clear out a cache, repeatedly raiding the same cache without leaving any bugs is a bit on the inconsiderate side.

[+BlueDeuce]

BUT put yourself in the cache owners shoes (Really - look at it from their perspective) - the trackables help attract people to their cache and to have them continuously removed by the one person would be bloody annoying if I was the cache owner!

 

My travelers are meant to move. A cache owner has absolutely no business saying who can and cannot move my bugs or coins.

 

bd

 

That's an extreme way to look at it I guess. I don't follow bugs in and out of my caches closely to see who are picking them up, but I do like them to move.

 

It's not extreme at all. If a cache owner says that someone can't move my bug for whatever reason they might come up with, they would be wrong.

[+G & C]

You can tell the cache owner that Eartha, Groundspeak Volunteer said Trackables are not trade items.

 

I don't think that's the issue, it's more an issue of the same person raiding the cache over and over... perfectly legit, but a tad low on etiquette. It's like when you put cookies out in the kitchen at the office... you put them out to share. It's annoying when one person makes 4-5 trips and ends up with 90% of them... that too is legit, but poor on manners... Whereas I want bugs to move and sometimes you need a person to clear out a cache, repeatedly raiding the same cache without leaving any bugs is a bit on the inconsiderate side.

 

Unfortunately, you can't have it both ways. You can't limit a CO by saying you can't have finders trade one for one, but then limit the cachers by saying you can only visit the cache once. If the mantra is a constant "Travelers are meant to travel", then as long as they're being moved, the rest goes out the window.

[+Eartha]

You can tell the cache owner that Eartha, Groundspeak Volunteer said Trackables are not trade items.

 

I don't think that's the issue, it's more an issue of the same person raiding the cache over and over... perfectly legit, but a tad low on etiquette. It's like when you put cookies out in the kitchen at the office... you put them out to share. It's annoying when one person makes 4-5 trips and ends up with 90% of them... that too is legit, but poor on manners... Whereas I want bugs to move and sometimes you need a person to clear out a cache, repeatedly raiding the same cache without leaving any bugs is a bit on the inconsiderate side.

 

Unfortunately, you can't have it both ways. You can't limit a CO by saying you can't have finders trade one for one, but then limit the cachers by saying you can only visit the cache once. If the mantra is a constant "Travelers are meant to travel", then as long as they're being moved, the rest goes out the window.

 

Exactly, no limits, no restrictions. Just move them along, and try to include something nice for the trackable owner and the cache owner to enjoy. That's the point, isn't it? Fun? Restrictions take the fun out of it.