The official website desperately needs an overhaul

[+roziecakes]

As a web developer I often try to bring a developer's perspective to these kinds of posts, as many on this forum know. That being said, I have a few points:

 

It's good to get the perspective of new site users, especially in this day and age of social networking. If a lot of newbies complained about the usability of one of my sites, I would probably look into it. Everyone's perspective is valid, no matter how long they've been using the site. I would email your concerns and suggestions to Groundspeak. They will probably give them some thought.

 

I can assure you though, that Groundspeak has been working with its clientbase for a long time, and I also know from being around here a while that this is NOT a social networking site, and a lot of the functions that social networking sites have are probably not going to be integrated into GC.com I'm personally not too bothered by that.

 

I'm fine with it not being a social networking site; and I like social networking! I love the opportunities that facebook has given my clients, also twitter, and blogging to an extent. I love being able to provide those options to my clients and expand their customer base. However, I just don't see those things as being that useful here.

 

I will address some of your points inline below:

 

1) The seek a cache page starting with the maps. Not everyone uses the maps to search for caches. I notice that you are a basic member, so you don't have the luxury of pocket queries, but honestly, I would say the greater majority of premium members use pocket queries to hunt for caches. For folks who have a long day of 20+ caches in mind, going directly to the maps just doesn't really cut it. Personally, I feel for a basic member, being able to find the nearest caches in my area by a certain mile radius would probably be the easiest thign to do. That's what I did when I was a basic member.

 

Granted, I do still use the maps for hunting caches, but they aren't always my first choice. I think if a new user were just presented with a map and not any other option, a less computer savvy person would be intimidated.

 

I like that the map exists as a choice rather than a default.

 

2) Profiles:

I agree with t4e that I really don't find it necessary for profiles to be a "feast for my eyes." Functionality and efficiency are the best options there, and I'm glad that the site sticks with that. Personally, I'll take functionality and speed over bells and whistles any day. I honestly think that sites that are flashy, or overly visually aesthetic load slower, and in this day and age especially with people using their phones to do a lot of their browsing, that a marriage of functionality and aesthetic is key. But given the choice, I'll take the uglier site that works better. Any day.

 

By the way, who says your profile has to be boring? If you look at mine, I have put all kinds of interesting stuff on there, including information from the stats program that I use (although I may stop using that soon, since they're integrating with gc.com soon. Way cool.) Granted, I know HTML, but frankly, one could find tutorials for basic HTML all over the internet, and in a few minutes one can learn enough to spruce up their profile some.

 

That being said, not everyone wants to put all kinds of information about themselves out there. Geocaching typically hasn't been the kind of activity where people tend to share all that kind of stuff. A lot of cachers don't even share their real names with people. There are those who enjoy the 'covert' nature of the hobby. When we started playing the game this was more so, but there are still some who do. It's just not really the kind of thing where people come to share all that jazz. If you want to, you can, but I don't think it necessarily needs to be part of the site.

 

I feel that if I want to offer up that info on my profile, I can, but I am glad I don't have to go through a form first to do so. It's a) slow, frustrating, and if they made those fields required I would be really irritated.

 

3) Facebook integration. Completely unnecessary in my mind. I would have a lot less friends on facebook if it meant I had to read everyone's cache updates on facebook every time they log a cache. I have some friends who are really heavy cachers, much more high volume than myself; I have one friend who has over 13,000 finds and finds more basically every day, would I want to see a FB notification or wall post every time he found a cache, heck no! I'd just turn that feature off, therefore rendering it useless; and I know that a lot of other folks would be in the same boat.

 

4) PM/IM. I am SOOOOO glad that there is no IM on this site. Oh boy am I so glad. There is enough "instant pestering" as I call it in this world. Putting it on geocaching is just unnecessary and uses up precious bandwidth and server space. No no no. I think that most will agree with me. I have too many IM/chat options as it is.

 

I did like the 'like' button that was on some cache pages for a while, but honestly, I feel like the new favorites system fills that gap quite well (again since the OP is a basic member they may not know about the favorites system).

 

In conclusion; there are some navigational issues about the site, but I think that over time you'll get used to it. There are so many friendly folks who will help you out with questions that you may have.

 

Also, one thing you may not know since you are new is that Groundspeak *has* been doing a lot to improve the site, and they constantly work on it to improve it. I think they have the good of their clientele in mind throughout the entire process. There are GS employees are cachers themselves from what I know of them. You say it looks like something from 10 years ago; honestly it doesn't look that bad, and is a far cry from what it looked like even five years ago when I started. I don't think it's that bad. The colors are pleasing to the eye, I think.

 

Personally, I find the site to not be the most important part of caching. What is? Caching!! That's the important part. I'm grateful that the site exists and functions as well as it does to list the caches that make up my favorite hobby. I'm glad that gc.com is here, even if it's not perfect. I love going out and caching. I love coming on the forums, I love looking at other players' profiles, and going to events. Because I get so much joy out of this hobby, I'm willing to lighten up and go with the flow, and not be so critical when it comes to the gc website. I'll work with it how it is.

Edited April 26, 2011 by nymphnsatyr

[+t4e]

Viscus,

 

You have some points, here is mine if you want to really help pay for a Premium membership, along with many other members that use this site daily and don't pay, this will allow the powers at be to have more funds to address problems and upgrades when they come up. My question to you is, do you think this site runs for free someone has to pay for it.

 

Scubasonic

 

+1

 

i was just about to say that

[+northernpenguin]

Right, and I personally hate having to go check a website for what is essentially an email. I get email all the time, and LIKE that it all comes in one mailbox. Rather than spending my evenings browsing from site to site to site in case I got a PM there.

Then shut off your inbox.

 

Why? I already HAVE an inbox. It's called an email inbox. Why should I be expected to go visit a website to see if I have messages there. I have a mailbox where I receive postal mail. I do not have another mailbox down the street that I need to check too, just in case the town I live in sends me a message there. I don't have another mailbox up the other street that I check for pizza coupons. I have a mailbox.

 

I don't want a geocaching.com specific mailbox that I have to login and check. I have an email address, and messages to/from geocaching.com are directed there.

 

Wait, I need to grasp my mind around this... Are you implying, that I'm implying, that an integrated IM-system for Geocaching.com, or a guestbook for that matter, would FORCE you to quit using Live Messenger? I really don't see your message here. Maybe I misunderstood you.

 

I think you did. It means that an integrated IM system would force him to check for messages there, which is quite unnecessary as he already is checking for messages on another IM system.

 

Bingo. what dfx said. I'm already running an IM and don't want yet another one. Actually, I'm already FORCED to use several. Some contacts are on MSN(Live), some are on Yahoo, some are on Google Talk, yet more have Blackberry Messenger. You know how many stinkin' IM apps I have running on my computer these days? I seriously doubt Groundspeak has the pull to get Geocaching IM integrated into those apps. Oh and if you look at my profile page again, you'll see I already tried out "GEOCACHING LIVE!" way back. That didn't catch on, for a reason.

[+roziecakes]

Wow. That's a lot.

 

As a newbie myself, the only beef I have about the site is that once logged in, I have to log in again to be in the forums. Seems to me that once I'm logged in, the forum link should automatically sign me in.

 

OT, but I had to say hi! Hi Rckhnd!! Good to see you on here Oregonians represent!!

[+StarBrand]

To clear things up, it is already a social networking site and the forum enforces this fact.

 

Uh, no. Forums, contact lists, address books, friend/buddy lists, etc etc, all have been around way before the term "social network" was even born.

Waaaaayy before.

I'd almost argue that those existed before the modern internet did. Any UseNet buffs know?

I used messaging forums very similar to this one on Compuserve around 1980-ish with my 150 baud modem on a Radio Shack TRS-80 Color Computer.(see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRS-80_Color_Computer )

[+northernpenguin]

 

I used messaging forums very similar to this one on Compuserve around 1980-ish with my 150 baud modem on a Radio Shack TRS-80 Color Computer.(see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRS-80_Color_Computer )

 

Ah, takes me back to my Canada Remote Systems USENET days ...... anyone else remember Echonet and Fidonet?

[Viscus]

And Ive never had a problem navigating this website from day one.

Neither did I. I still think it could be vastly improved. On a side not, every single person that I've talked into registering on this site has found it quite unhelpful and even I still find new stuff and pages here and there by random.

 

But at home planning a caching trip, I don't really care so much where the caches are (as long as they are roughly within the area specified) - what I want to see at a glance is the sizes, difficulty/terrain ratings, who hid them, how old they are, and nowadays how many favourite points they have....that's how I choose a good cache to go out and find that day.

 

I couldn't get all that info from a map view.

Why not? It's done in the iPhone app: You simply click the cache and get linked to an information page with everything you need to know. I don't know how the web-map works though, but I've seen they're working on a new one (currently in Beta).

I also don't see the point of the suggestion that clicking 'your profile' should take you straight to your public profile. Why do I need to see my public profile all the time? that's for me to give info to others, not to myself....surely?

Well why do you need to see your cache-logs "all the time", and why can't them both be merged? Just make it more fluent, I don't actually need two profiles. Fact of the matter is that I have never had 2 profiles on any other site where I've had to register.

 

Most criticism here seem to be "nope, can't work, end of discussion". While I'd like to keep my mind open enough to at least include all of my wishes as optional, if they would ever be included.

[+roziecakes]

Viscus,

 

You have some points, here is mine if you want to really help pay for a Premium membership, along with many other members that use this site daily and don't pay, this will allow the powers at be to have more funds to address problems and upgrades when they come up. My question to you is, do you think this site runs for free someone has to pay for it.

 

Scubasonic

 

+1

 

 

i was just about to say that

\

 

Also +1 So true!

Edited April 26, 2011 by nymphnsatyr

[Viscus]

I don't want a geocaching.com specific mailbox that I have to login and check.

Then shut it off. In other words: Keep your mail. Like I've written a few times now, the PM inbox for Geocaching could easily be made optional. Like friend requests are optional. Edited April 26, 2011 by Viscus

[+northernpenguin]

I don't want a geocaching.com specific mailbox that I have to login and check.

Then shut it off. In other words: Keep your mail. Like I've written a few times now, the PM inbox for Geocaching could easily be made optional. Like friend requests are optional.

 

And what about the 80% of the people on the site that never even see the feature?

Should be implement an email black hole here?

 

You register for the site using your email address, and communications go to that. What happens with people who fail to check (or even realize they have) a new Geocaching.com Mailbox? Perhaps we could just rewire the site to send emails by default to /dev/null.

 

Email works. What you want here is to re-invent a wheel. I am quite certain you will not find a personal computer in North America that does not have an email account associated with it, and that the people using that computer know how to use that software. Even if that email client is a bookmark to their Gmail account.

[+t4e]

 

Why not? It's done in the iPhone app: You simply click the cache and get linked to an information page with everything you need to know. I don't know how the web-map works though, but I've seen they're working on a new one (currently in Beta).

 

 

why do you assume everyone has a smart phone?

[+The Chaos Crew]

But at home planning a caching trip, I don't really care so much where the caches are (as long as they are roughly within the area specified) - what I want to see at a glance is the sizes, difficulty/terrain ratings, who hid them, how old they are, and nowadays how many favourite points they have....that's how I choose a good cache to go out and find that day.

 

I couldn't get all that info from a map view.

Why not? It's done in the iPhone app: You simply click the cache and get linked to an information page with everything you need to know. I don't know how the web-map works though, but I've seen they're working on a new one (currently in Beta).

 

But that means clicking in and out of each cache one by one - much much quicker to scan through a list looking for a cache that looks promising - I might scan past 100 caches or more before I spot one that looks like a good 'un (but then, I'm a bit picky )

 

They way I tend to work is 1) put in the name of the town we plan to visit that day 2) find the KILLER cache or caches in the area by scanning through the lists (I'm usually looking for good sized caches with lots of favourites, preferably hidden by a cacher with a great reputation) then and only then if it looks like time will allow (ie the killer cache won't take all day), I'll fire up the map to see if there are any other decent looking caches to pick up in the vicinity of the killer cache while we are there....

 

I also don't see the point of the suggestion that clicking 'your profile' should take you straight to your public profile. Why do I need to see my public profile all the time? that's for me to give info to others, not to myself....surely?

Well why do you need to see your cache-logs "all the time", and why can't them both be merged? Just make it more fluent, I don't actually need two profiles. Fact of the matter is that I have never had 2 profiles on any other site where I've had to register.

 

Maybe they just need to call it different things - as the two profiles serve very different purposes - one is just your public "face", the other is more like a control centre from which you can access your recent finds (which I do like to go back to to see who has found since me, if people have picked up TBs I've dropped etc etc), your pocket queries, your bookmark lists, all sorts of other useful (and frequently used!) goodies....

[Viscus]

Personally, I find the site to not be the most important part of caching. What is? Caching!!

Since you dedicated that entire post to ensure me that improvements are unnecessary and that the site is virtually perfect already, then blames me for not putting as much value into actually caching as with connecting with other geocachers is frightening. As a web-developer you should be even more keen on improvements on websites than I am, and I would hav expected more.

 

Furthermore, I am cornered as an attacker. I am not. I simply wish the site to be improved by the measures I presented in my first post, and I never ever expected such fierce and aggressive responses. Now, in order to prove my loyalty, I have to buy myself a premium account, which I have no need for, no money for, and would serve as no indication that any of my desired improvements would come true.

 

I think I will leave this thread to mature on it's own for a while. Pearls before swine was never my intent..

[+The Chaos Crew]

for what it's worth, I don't think you are being branded as an attacker....it's just that most people (many of whom are very experienced geocachers) don't really agree that many of your suggested improvements would really be improvements in practice.

 

pretty much all of us have agreed with you that the navigability of the overall interface leaves a bit to be desired

[+roziecakes]

Personally, I find the site to not be the most important part of caching. What is? Caching!!

Since you dedicated that entire post to ensure me that improvements are unnecessary and that the site is virtually perfect already, then blames me for not putting as much value into actually caching as with connecting with other geocachers is frightening. As a web-developer you should be even more keen on improvements on websites than I am, and I would hav expected more.

 

Actually, that was never my intent. I in fact in the first part of my post defended you saying that it is good to listen to the points of view of new visitors to a site.

 

I never said the site was virtually perfect, I acknowledge the problems, but; I said that I'm willing to live with it for the sake of caching, and gave you some suggestions for how to make your experience better, like putting HTML in your profile and making it interesting.

 

The developer's perspective that I brought in was this: functionality and speed are the most important things here; and adding in social networking an IMs, and all kinds of other extras is just too much here. But yes, I AGREE with you that navigation could be improved upon, especially for new folks.

 

And just remember, just because I might add that I like something personally, doesn't mean that I'm accusing you or blaming you for anything. I'm not. When I mentioned the way I personally choose to behave in the situation was just to do that, to state how I do things, not to blame you or say that you are wrong. I'm glad that you brought all of this up. Just because I don't agree with a lot of what you said doesn't mean that I don't appreciate your opinion.

 

In fact, because I feel like your argument is intelligent and well-thought out, I felt like I could respond with as much information as I did.

 

Also, I do like to connect with other cachers; that's why I've gone to almost 50 events, and why I like to come onto the forum during my breaks at work. I also have four or five caching friends that I cache with on a regular basis, as well as my husband.

 

I encourage you to not take our posts personally. If you post a strong opinion, you should probably expect that others may disagree with you, especially those of us who have been doing this for a while. It's not personal. Like I said, I'm really pleased that you brought this up.

 

I may not have been clear in my purpose for posting. I was simply trying to convey that we should look at the good and be grateful for what we have, and then find room for improvement. I am sorry and I sincerely apologize if you felt I was attacking you. It was not my intent at all.

 

Also, I encourage you to buy a premium account because you WANT to, not because you think others are making you do it. I remind you of the old adage about jumping off bridges... We didn't become premium members until we knew that caching was really our thing. I can't remember, but I think it took us a year or so.

 

Hope that helps explain my perspective a little.

[+mtn-man]

Furthermore, I am cornered as an attacker. I am not. I simply wish the site to be improved by the measures I presented in my first post, and I never ever expected such fierce and aggressive responses.

I don't think you are seen as an attacker. You have a point and want to stick to it. Heck fire, nothing wrong with that. Other think you don't get it here and want to stick to their guns too.

 

This does point out a HUGE flaw in trying to turn this into some additional social networking site.

 

This exchange is somewhat impersonal. You read the words the way you want to. I can see your passion, and I see others that feel passionate about their feeling about what this site should be. The impersonal nature of the exchange is bad historically in forums and such. I have a great example. fizzymagic and I have gone toe to toe here on lots of occasions. We FINALLY met in Seattle last summer. He thought I would not want to meet him. It was one of the highlights of my trip. We don't always agree and we have certainly thrown some evil barbs at each other, but when we met we had a great conversation (all too brief) and I think we both gained immeasurable respect for each other. You want social networking, go to an event.

 

I text, yeah, but man sometimes I wish some people would just call me. You have my phone number right there! Again, impersonal and slow. I can get more done in a three minute conversation than in thirty minutes of texting back and forth.

 

You are missing it here. This is a game. We play here and we meet friends along the way. You can then add those friends to your social networking sites and get more in touch with them in other various ways beyond just geocaching.

 

I have many guestbooks for people to sign. They are my hidden caches. You can easily look at my hidden caches and see what people think of my work. If they like my work, they gush on my cache pages. If my cache is a stinker, they say "TFTC".

 

Oh yeah, I bookmark/favorite the pocket query page, the field notes page, the find another user page and greasemonkey script a few other query pages (hidden by user, found by user, user's profile, etc.). I use the bookmark toolbar to one click my way to various forum landing pages. Your browser is your greatest tool. Use it wisely.

Edited April 26, 2011 by mtn-man
I'm hungry and I don't proooofread well when hungry.

[+roziecakes]

Nice post Mtn-Man! I for one, really don't see you as an attacker. My first thought was, "Nice! An intelligent well thought out post with a strong opinion, this is going to be a great thread that I hope to learn something from and add to." Seriously. As far as I'm concerned, posters like you are extremely welcome around here. Don't be put off because others have strong opinions; we all probably have more in common than you might think

[+StarBrand]

... I am cornered as an attacker. I am not. ....

 

I don't think you are. You asked for discussion - and you got it. Just because you think it is necessary to make changes - please respect that some of us (generally except for some issues) kind of like the way things have evolved here to date.

[+Sagefox]

Personally, I find the site to not be the most important part of caching...

 

I'm grateful that the site exists and functions as well as it does to list the caches that make up my favorite hobby.

 

I'm glad that gc.com is here...

 

I'll work with it how it is.

 

Yep.

 

Geocaching has been a big part of my life for almost 10 years and I have always been satisfied with this site.

 

It has been fun to see and make use of the changes over the years. Bookmark lists and PQs have really improved the "important part of caching". I also really enjoy the public profiles and the individual creativeness that some folks put into theirs.

 

I'm with many others who have posted here. Some minor improvements would be helpful but are not absolutely necessary. Groundspeak does make improvements continuously.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Wow. That's a lot.

 

As a newbie myself, the only beef I have about the site is that once logged in, I have to log in again to be in the forums. Seems to me that once I'm logged in, the forum link should automatically sign me in.

 

They are on separate servers, but you should be able to click the remember me option so you don't have to keep signing in to either one.

 

Authentication into applications on separate servers is quite common in any kind of enterprise environment. It's typically calls Single Signon (or SSO) and there are numerous mechanism available to implement such a system (OpenID, Shibboleth, Central Authentication System,...). Although I agree with many others about the Geocaching site as a social network platform, one of the mechanism that many sites which require authentication are employing is the delegation of authentication to other systems. For example, some sites will allow users to authenticate using the Gmail, Facebook, Twitter, or other site account. Frankly, I don't consider it enough of an annoyance to log into the main site and forums sites separately to warrant development time.

 

There was a similar thread awhile back about redesigning the main site and most of the discussion centered around a customization of the "Your Profile" (not to be confused with the public profile) page. Specifically, several people asked for the ability to customize the layout and what content appeared (and what didn't) on the page. I doubt that GS would ever be able to come up with an overhaul that changed the way the site looked that would satisfy everyone so some sort of personalization of the site would, IMHO, be a better approach.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

 

Why not? It's done in the iPhone app: You simply click the cache and get linked to an information page with everything you need to know. I don't know how the web-map works though, but I've seen they're working on a new one (currently in Beta).

 

 

why do you assume everyone has a smart phone?

 

From what I read recently, in Japan the number of smart phones just exceeded the number of non-smart phones about a month ago. As far as I know, no other country can make that claim. On the other hand, in many developing countries the adoption of internet ready phones significantly exceeds the use of desktop computers. Development applications for mobile devices is a different paradigm than developing applications for desktop computers. In other words, what may work for an app for a mobile device just doesn't make sense in a desktop environment.

[+J the Goat]

I have a couple of pennies to add. I'm quite the dum-dum when it comes to computers, or technology for that matter. While I did, and still do, have a few issues with some parts of the GC website, there are no more than some issues I have with every other website I can figure out how to access. Much less than some in fact.

 

I'm sorry ahead of time if I'm misremembering your statements or got the wrong meaning from your posts. I can't go back and add quotes like some do (the dum-dum thing again ). If I remember correctly, you said something about one of the main parts of geocaching being the social aspect. True for some, not for others. This is an activity that everyone can take their own spin on. The ability to contact other cachers is there and it's easy. It may not be as instant as you would like it to be, but it works.

 

I would absolutely like the site to be easier; I'd like every site to be easier to navigate/use. That being said, I have minimal complaints about how the site is currently set up. I'm not as against the idea of making the site a little bit more like an actual social network site as some, but I am against the idea. If nothing else, the point was brought up earlier that I'd rather have the GS staff working on issues that NEED addressing than working on new features to the site that aren't necessary.

 

Thanks for the ideas though.

[+geodarts]

Last year, Jeremy talked about how Groundspeak was late to the “social” aspect of location, but they were aware of how powerful the network could be be and that we could expect some interesting things from Groundspeak. About the same time, he indicated that whibbit was being used as a testbed for social networking integration: "We'll have more Facebook and Twitter integration with Geocaching.com in the near future."

 

A little over a year later, I have no idea what the status of these ideas might be. At one point, there was a facebook button but it was removed. In the meantime, we have seen souvenirs, favorites, new "beta" maps, and other things indicating that the site is continuing to grow. I am not sure that social networking needs to be one of them. In this year, I disabled my facebook account, I communicate with my geocaching friends outside of the "friends" feature on this site, and I see no need to "like" everything in sight. I am sure that social networking is more important to some than it is to me and that Groundspeak will continue to address needs of its users, but I am more interested in seeing what new virtuals will look like and whether whereigos will ever be redeveloped.

 

So yes, there are things about this site that could make it easier for some to navigate or to personalize their experience. But in the meantime, the site does what I want it to do - enable me to load groups of caches on my gpsr and head out into the real world.

Edited April 26, 2011 by mulvaney

[GOF and Bacall]

Congratulations on a well stirred pot.

 

Could the site use a few well placed tweaks? Sure. But it isn't the horror show you make out to be.

 

I like that the profile page you see has mostly only what I want you to see. I wish I had even more control over it.

 

I don't want an IM/PM service. You want to contact me there is an email service. I'll read it at my leisure and if you're lucky I may even answer it. Those people who I think should have a faster way to contact me have my phone number.

 

To be honest I don't care if it is easy for new members. I want those who are serious enough to take the time to learn how things work to stick around. If they can't find these forums just how the heck are they gonna find a nano on a tank?

 

If TPTB were to turn this into another one of those so called social networking sites I will stop paying my $30 a year. If I wanted to be on facebook I would be.

[+Ike 13]

Furthermore, I am cornered as an attacker. I am not.

 

Dude stop reading into things. I'm reading the same words as you are and no one called you an attacker. People are offering their opinion. A majority of people here are against becoming a social network site. Now that's just the forums, which is way more public then the overall site, so overall a large majority of people are against overintegration of social networking. This is why the facebook like button for caches was removed so quickly.

 

We all agree that improvments to navigation could be made.

 

I think you made some great points. nymphnsatyr, also made some great points, and overall agreed with you.

[Viscus]

Furthermore, I am cornered as an attacker. I am not. I simply wish the site to be improved by the measures I presented in my first post, and I never ever expected such fierce and aggressive responses.

I don't think you are seen as an attacker. You have a point and want to stick to it. Heck fire, nothing wrong with that. Other think you don't get it here and want to stick to their guns too.

 

This does point out a HUGE flaw in trying to turn this into some additional social networking site.

 

This exchange is somewhat impersonal. You read the words the way you want to. I can see your passion, and I see others that feel passionate about their feeling about what this site should be. The impersonal nature of the exchange is bad historically in forums and such. I have a great example. fizzymagic and I have gone toe to toe here on lots of occasions. We FINALLY met in Seattle last summer. He thought I would not want to meet him. It was one of the highlights of my trip. We don't always agree and we have certainly thrown some evil barbs at each other, but when we met we had a great conversation (all too brief) and I think we both gained immeasurable respect for each other. You want social networking, go to an event.

 

I text, yeah, but man sometimes I wish some people would just call me. You have my phone number right there! Again, impersonal and slow. I can get more done in a three minute conversation than in thirty minutes of texting back and forth.

 

You are missing it here. This is a game. We play here and we meet friends along the way. You can then add those friends to your social networking sites and get more in touch with them in other various ways beyond just geocaching.

 

I have many guestbooks for people to sign. They are my hidden caches. You can easily look at my hidden caches and see what people think of my work. If they like my work, they gush on my cache pages. If my cache is a stinker, they say "TFTC".

 

Oh yeah, I bookmark/favorite the pocket query page, the field notes page, the find another user page and greasemonkey script a few other query pages (hidden by user, found by user, user's profile, etc.). I use the bookmark toolbar to one click my way to various forum landing pages. Your browser is your greatest tool. Use it wisely.

First of all, I do not have problems navigating the site, but I am bugged about it's general layout. Secondly, thanks for patting me on the shoulder, I think I went out too hard as a newcomer to this forum. As an old forumist myself, I probably should've known better.

Nice post Mtn-Man! I for one, really don't see you as an attacker. My first thought was, "Nice! An intelligent well thought out post with a strong opinion, this is going to be a great thread that I hope to learn something from and add to." Seriously. As far as I'm concerned, posters like you are extremely welcome around here. Don't be put off because others have strong opinions; we all probably have more in common than you might think

I had to take a caching-walk to get my senses back straight, sorry if I ventilated it all in your face earlier. I found your wall-of-text the most intelligable so far, but I was quite overwhelmed by it's length. I really have nothing to add as a response, seeing as most of the issues has been brought up already. Hope there's no hard feelings and thanks for sharing your thoughts.

 

Also, thanks to the rest of you who gave my words consideration. I have one left coin to add in my favor, coming up in my next post...

[+uxorious]

 

Furthermore, I am cornered as an attacker. I am not. I simply wish the site to be improved by the measures I presented in my first post, and I never ever expected such fierce and aggressive responses. Now, in order to prove my loyalty, I have to buy myself a premium account, which I have no need for, no money for, and would serve as no indication that any of my desired improvements would come true.

 

I think I will leave this thread to mature on it's own for a while. Pearls before swine was never my intent..

 

Just because people disagree with you does not mean they are attacking you.

 

You simply wish the site to be improved by the measures you present, in your opinion. Many of us do not agree with the changes you would like to see.

Many of us like the way things are set up now and do not agree the changes you suggest are needed or wanted. If you don't agree with us, are you attacking us?

 

I like going to events and meeting people, I enjoy the forums. However, I do not want the site to make it any easier for people to find me if I do not know them. If I wanted more social interactivity I would go on facebook, but I like things just fine.

[+Sol seaker]

You are not required to expose your email address when contacting another player from the site. When you contact another player, you can show your email address if desired or not.

You know how often I check for PMs on the Groundspeak forums.....? Never. I already have an email address that players can contact me at.

It doesn't matter if I expose my e-mail adress or not, the system is still unnecessarily intricate. Like I've written about one zillion times already, user-friendlyness and accessibility is important (for ANY website) and e-mail contacting could still remain optional. I personally hate to have to go to my e-mail just to check for a message from a site which could have had an integrated PM-system instead.

 

But requesting ease of access seems to be taboo here.

 

Actually the forums do have a PM system. I don't know if it's a premium membership feature or not, but I've got it and have used it on occasion.

 

See the thing you've got to remember is that you are just jumping in here. This site has years of history that explain why many things are the way they are.

 

And no, this site is not perfect, and they are always working at improving it.

 

But many of the things you have mentioned are in place for good reasons. Because you haven't been here all along hearing the discussions does not invalidate those reasons.

 

As someone else mentioned, there are many people who want privacy on this site. They don't want friends and family to be following their caching. For whatever reason, it is a reasonable request.

 

You can get a more complete profile for your profile page at GSAK.com. Or a number of other sites for that matter. You can do anything with your profile page you want. Or nothing if you want privacy.

 

So one main difference between this site and something like facebook is it's not just about being social, it's about geocaching. When you get an activity thrown in there, there will be, and are disagreements. A lot. We have people in here from every walk of life and they don't always get along or play well together (read more forums if you want to know what I mean). This has lead to problems in the past with players contacting each other inappropriately.

 

Since we need to send emails through this site it registers the users computer ID. This hopefully discourages many people from sending nasty emails and getting banned from this site.

 

What I really would not want is some irate cacher IMing me again and again.

 

We need more ways of separation in order to protect people's privacy and also protect them against irate cachers.

People can take caching personally and there are often disputes. The current system keeps things safer than it would be to have those things in place that you mention.

 

I am really glad this site is not connected up to Facebook and other social sites. My friends and family don't want to hear about every lamp post hide that I find. In fact they rarely even want to hear about my challenging or unique finds, but if they do we discuss it in person.

 

I know as a fact that if every one of my finds was announced on Facebook I would soon not have any facebook friends.

[+roziecakes]

I had to take a caching-walk to get my senses back straight, sorry if I ventilated it all in your face earlier. I found your wall-of-text the most intelligable so far, but I was quite overwhelmed by it's length. I really have nothing to add as a response, seeing as most of the issues has been brought up already. Hope there's no hard feelings and thanks for sharing your thoughts.

 

Also, thanks to the rest of you who gave my words consideration. I have one left coin to add in my favor, coming up in my next post...

 

Don't feel bad! No hard feelings at all. Thanks for responding!

[Viscus]

This is the official main geocaching site in Sweden: http://www.geocaching.se/

 

This is what the official website should be like if you ask me. The front page has got some news about the site and the organisation, info on newly added caches at the left side, some ads to generate funding, upcoming events and best of all: One main-menu at the top with sub-menus to help navigation. And this is what I mean by ease of accessibility.

 

The profile, in this case, is much better than the one on Geocaching.com. It's simplistic, yet informative, allows for a large avatar, statistics, custom personal info and more. It's basically your forum user profile with a few tweaks. Needless to say, it's more comfortable to have one profile instead of two. And oh - what's that on the left side? Is that a "Send PM"-button? Indeed, and this brings me to the next point..

 

Forum integration. This isn't quite what I had in mind when I went on about turning Geocaching.com into a social network of some sort, but the swedish site pulls this off quite nicely by integrating the normal site with the forum. Notice how the forum itself is not a seperate page, but part of the main site as a sub-page? Well, that's a working model right there. Sending PM is done via the forums and you're brought there when clicking "send PM" on a user's profile, without leaving the site or anything.

 

Now to the most important issue: Searching for caches. Here is the search-page of the site: http://www.geocaching.se/?page=map/map. Notice the map/location details compromise and the size (and fluidity) of the map. This is a lot like the iPhone Geocaching-map which has a similar system. Now, if you search for caches, and click on one, you get some basic details about that particular cache plus the option to open a new tab with more detailed info on the official website. Furthermore: Notice that a complete list of all shown caches are located below the map.

 

It's not the nightmarish social network many people here seem to think would happen if Groundspeak merely increased the level of accessibility and connectivity between people. It's a well designed, informative and user-friendly site that simply does it's job much better than Geocaching.com (in my opinion of course).

 

Feedback shall prove interesting.

Edited April 26, 2011 by Viscus

[+Ike 13]

That's not 'the official site', that's a local site sponsored by the local Geocaching community (or at least that's what I see).

 

There's lots of those around (http://www.yogosc.org/ http://uscgeocaching.net/forum/e107_plugins/forum/forum.php http://www.charlottegeocaching.com/smf/ http://www.cachersofthesouth.com/ ) are just the ones I know of around me.

 

Now that one that you linked to sure is nice and has a lot of great stuff. But remember that is set up by the local club to promote the local social aspect. This is the main site and their goal is to list caches and provide search functions to find those caches. There's a lot of work to be done in those areas and anything social can come later as far as I'm concerned.

 

On a side note how in the heck did they get that map to work like?

[I!]

What I'd REALLY like to see is an improvement to the search facility - so for example I could search for a cache within 10 miles of home that had "star" in its title

Seconded. While we're here, let's also have a unified model for presenting (and filtering/sorting) lists, rather than the however-many different formats used at present.

[Viscus]

@Ike, whatever.

[+nittanycopa]

This is the official main geocaching site in Sweden: http://www.geocaching.se/

 

This is what the official website should be like if you ask me. The front page has got some news about the site and the organisation, info on newly added caches at the left side, some ads to generate funding, upcoming events and best of all: One main-menu at the top with sub-menus to help navigation. And this is what I mean by ease of accessibility.

 

The profile, in this case, is much better than the one on Geocaching.com. It's simplistic, yet informative, allows for a large avatar, statistics, custom personal info and more. It's basically your forum user profile with a few tweaks. Needless to say, it's more comfortable to have one profile instead of two. And oh - what's that on the left side? Is that a "Send PM"-button? Indeed, and this brings me to the next point..

 

Forum integration. This isn't quite what I had in mind when I went on about turning Geocaching.com into a social network of some sort, but the swedish site pulls this off quite nicely by integrating the normal site with the forum. Notice how the forum itself is not a seperate page, but part of the main site as a sub-page? Well, that's a working model right there. Sending PM is done via the forums and you're brought there when clicking "send PM" on a user's profile, without leaving the site or anything.

 

Now to the most important issue: Searching for caches. Here is the search-page of the site: http://www.geocaching.se/?page=map/map. Notice the map/location details compromise and the size (and fluidity) of the map. This is a lot like the iPhone Geocaching-map which has a similar system. Now, if you search for caches, and click on one, you get some basic details about that particular cache plus the option to open a new tab with more detailed info on the official website. Furthermore: Notice that a complete list of all shown caches are located below the map.

 

It's not the nightmarish social network many people here seem to think would happen if Groundspeak merely increased the level of accessibility and connectivity between people. It's a well designed, informative and user-friendly site that simply does it's job much better than Geocaching.com (in my opinion of course).

 

Feedback shall prove interesting.

 

That's basically a Wordpress platform website.

 

I think you went from some valid suggestions in your first post to completely losing credibility with this one.

[+GeoReapers]

To clear things up, it is already a social networking site and the forum enforces this fact.

 

Uh, no. Forums, contact lists, address books, friend/buddy lists, etc etc, all have been around way before the term "social network" was even born.

 

This is true, but they have kind of been folded into the blanket term and are now an extension of the Social Networking community. Think Blazers, Bronco's and Suburban's: remember when we used to call them Trucks? Now they are all SUV's.

 

To be perfectly honest, I too would love some better way to find other cachers in my area. I can't always make it to events just due to time with my kids or work stuff and just having some other way of hanging or meeting people (other than the 11:30 PM FTF run where I bump into some other people)_ would be great. However, this is not for everyone. Really, if some sort of social networking tool were to be integrated on a very minimal basis with some sort of "opt out" scenario, then I think it would be beneficial to everyone. Then again, is GS really going to want to work on some feature that 50% of their users may not use and another 30% are ambivalent about? Doubtful.

 

EDIT And this is why you read the ENTIRE post before posting a reply. I must say my one and only real complaint is that i always get a little confused when looking for the PMO options, so much so that I have had to throw that link as a shortcut on my desktop. The Pocket query/cache along a route features are the most useful to me, but I would always forget where they were.

Edited April 26, 2011 by GeoReapers

[Viscus]

That's basically a Wordpress platform website.

 

So?

[+northernpenguin]

That's basically a Wordpress platform website.

 

So?

 

So, Wordpress United is how you merge forums and Wordpress for example and that project has been so delayed it's darn near abandoned. Not up to date on current patches. You can bet there's at least one ticked off cacher who has the knowledge and desire to bring our favourite site down over a missed patch.

 

Groundspeak owns the code to their site, and owns the responsibility to it. I believe Groundspeak is a bit large to be running the operation on Wordpress, or PHP-Nuke, or even Drupal. Those are (well PHP-Nuke *was*) excellent content management systems but will suffer greatly with the database load that the Geocaching dataset is.

 

Edit: Add URL for WP-United

Edited April 26, 2011 by northernpenguin

[jholly]

This is the official main geocaching site in Sweden: http://www.geocaching.se/

 

This is what the official website should be like if you ask me. The front page has got some news about the site and the organisation, info on newly added caches at the left side, some ads to generate funding, upcoming events and best of all: One main-menu at the top with sub-menus to help navigation. And this is what I mean by ease of accessibility.

 

The profile, in this case, is much better than the one on Geocaching.com. It's simplistic, yet informative, allows for a large avatar, statistics, custom personal info and more. It's basically your forum user profile with a few tweaks. Needless to say, it's more comfortable to have one profile instead of two. And oh - what's that on the left side? Is that a "Send PM"-button? Indeed, and this brings me to the next point..

 

Forum integration. This isn't quite what I had in mind when I went on about turning Geocaching.com into a social network of some sort, but the swedish site pulls this off quite nicely by integrating the normal site with the forum. Notice how the forum itself is not a seperate page, but part of the main site as a sub-page? Well, that's a working model right there. Sending PM is done via the forums and you're brought there when clicking "send PM" on a user's profile, without leaving the site or anything.

 

Now to the most important issue: Searching for caches. Here is the search-page of the site: http://www.geocaching.se/?page=map/map. Notice the map/location details compromise and the size (and fluidity) of the map. This is a lot like the iPhone Geocaching-map which has a similar system. Now, if you search for caches, and click on one, you get some basic details about that particular cache plus the option to open a new tab with more detailed info on the official website. Furthermore: Notice that a complete list of all shown caches are located below the map.

 

It's not the nightmarish social network many people here seem to think would happen if Groundspeak merely increased the level of accessibility and connectivity between people. It's a well designed, informative and user-friendly site that simply does it's job much better than Geocaching.com (in my opinion of course).

 

Feedback shall prove interesting.

Given the severe problems GS is now having with the plumbing and the structure, talking about what color to paint the outside seems a bit, ah, well, an exercise in futility. I would much rather they go about fixing the on-going and severe database problems, spend resource to fix the beta maps and get them out of beta, which probably will go a long way to freeing up room for growth in the database area. They have lots of work on partially implemented feature sets, api's have been promised for at least six months now and will be here "soon". You can have the most spiffy looking front page and a personal profile page that is visual feast but unless the plumbing and structure is fixed it really does not matter, now does it? Yeah the navigation could be better, but you know what? I know where to find stuff so it really is not an issue. Having broken maps is an issue. Having to wait 30-60 seconds per cache to log is an issue. Bookmarks are pretty good now, but there still is some work that needs to be done. There are too many issues that need to be addressed and what the front page is or what the navigation is simply does not make it on my radar. And far as social network integration, one of the reasons the facebook like-it widget is gone is because it blocked the site from being used on school networks. I suspect the same will be true for other social networks and may well be the case for IM. Teachers do integrate the site into their teaching curriculum and the mere whisper of these things can and does slam the door shut on this site which, of course, blocks it from using it in the classroom.

[+tozainamboku]

If the site looks like a 10 year-old user interface, it is because that is essentially what it is.

 

When the site was established the point was to have a single place where geocachers go to to find a listing of geocaches. It simply needed to provide:

• A way to submit new geocache listings
  
• A way to search for geocaches based on geographic location
  
• A way to log attempts at finding geocaches
  

Over time it added other features such as trackables, maps, download to GPS, and premium features like bookmarks and pocket queries. Early on the site added a few "social networking" features such as a profile for each user, a way to contact a user through the site, and a discussion forum. But these were not seen as critical to the site's purpose and were never given particular emphasis.

 

Early adopter's of geocaching were mostly interesting in simply finding geocaches. If they wanted social networking with other cachers they found setting up local groups worked better. Many Yahoo! and Google groups were formed, and even early Meetup group, for groups of geocachers to find each other. Geocaching.com did add the idea of an Event cache to allow cachers to setup events to meet. Even here, guidelines were eventually adopted to discourage the use of the event pages where setting up a group on a social media site would be more "appropriate".

 

This appealed to most geocachers for many years. They have no reason to want to use geocaching as a social network. I think what has changed is the smartphone apps for geocaching. These have attracted a newer, mostly younger, group of individuals who view many online activites as a intergral part of their social lives. They may like the opporutunity to find people with common interest and contact them online. Many have grown up with these social networking sites and expect any online system to include certain features. They sometime forget that some sites like geoaching.com have been around for a long time and that many oolder members are still primarily using it to find geocaches and while they may like getting together with other geocachers, they prefer to do this via other methods.

 

I believe that Geocaching.com could probably do a better job at providing a social networking function for those that want to use it, either directy or by including the appropriate Facebook and other links on certain pages. They previously trie the Facebook like button on cache pages and that got a lot of negative feedback from people who (IMO) didn't understand the mechanic of liking something in Facebook. Cache owners were insisting that they should be able to remove the like button from their cache page because they didn't want Facebook to track their cache. I actually though it was nice because Facebook members could point a cache to their Facebook friend - perhaps even with a message like "This looks fun, should we go find it this weekend?"; while non-Facebook members could easily ignore the button.

 

So the question is how to provide this capability is the least obtrusive way so that non-social networkers can ignore the links. One problem with a website that has been around for a long time is that any change tends to upset some people. They are used to doing things a certain way and major changes are often seen as interfering with that.

[+fizzymagic]

When the site was established the point was to have a single place where geocachers go to to find a listing of geocaches. It simply needed to provide:

• A way to submit new geocache listings
  
• A way to search for geocaches based on geographic location
  
• A way to log attempts at finding geocaches
  

 

+1.

 

While geocaching is an inherently social activity, it's my belief that chasing the "social networking" fad-of-the-moment would be a long-term disaster. I think that having a fast, reliable database and making mobile apps is a much better use of the developers' time.

[+niraD]

Alright, so I'm new to this forum. I'm even relatively new to Geocaching, as I have "only" found 60 caches over the last few months.

Welcome!

 

I don't recall anyone mentioning this yet, but Groundspeak has a separate site for offering suggestions:

http://feedback.geocaching.com/

 

The website is pretty much as un-userfriendly as they come.

I agree that there are ways in which the site could be improved. A lot of people think the site could be improved. Just check out the number of suggestions on the feedback site. But while you're at it, be sure to check out the dissenting opinions in the comments, and the number of suggestions that languish with only a handful of votes (if that). It's also clear that people disagree about what those improvements should be. That's a lot of what you're seeing in this thread. Don't take it personally.

 

But with that said, hyperbole like the above isn't the best way to win people to your cause. I've seen plenty of sites that were a lot more user-hostile than this one.

 

Why do I have to first enter my profile, then click an obscure search-link down in the sub-menu to find another player?

My guess is that you have to first enter your profile because you started on the main welcome page. That page is (and should be) targeted towards new visitors to the site, who need an explanation of what geocaching is. I always start on my profile page. I doubt many experienced geocachers start on the main welcome page.

 

Why are there so many pages to get basic information (I believe there are 3 different pages to check my Cache-finds, which could probably be merged into one)?

Perhaps. I'm not sure which 3 different pages you're referring to, but different views of the same info can be useful. Sometimes I view my finds via the statistics page. Sometimes I view my most recent logs on my profile page. Sometimes I view all my Found It logs. Sometimes I view my finds of only one particular type of cache. And so on. Sure, the different views could be better integrated. Given time, and a lack of higher-priority projects, I'm sure they will be.

 

Why do I have to send an e-mail via the site in order to communicate with other players?

If the other user has made his/her contact info public, then you don't. You can send email or IM or whatever directly. But like others, I'd rather Groundspeak not invest resources developing some sort of PM/IM system for the geocaching.com site. I don't need another inbox to check, and I don't need another IM system.

 

Hide and seek a cache - answer me this: Why does this button bring me to a declaration form?

A "declaration form"? You mean the form that asks you where you want to search for caches, and allows you to specify a location in several different ways?

 

And yes, some of us find the default search results (a list of nearby caches) more useful than the maps. Also, from a site design point of view, the maps are much more resource intensive than the lists, so it makes sense to provide the list by default, and to provide the maps only when users specifically want them.

 

When I press "Your profile" in the left-side menu, it brings me to my private profile, or something, with my latest logs. I can choose to go to my public profile from here. But the thing that particularily irritates me on this page, is that there are *counts* literally 12 different menus for stuff! Why? There's the ordinary menu to the left, some weird top menu, and a batch of micro-menus with random content to the right. Why not simply bring me to my "Public profile" when i actually click "Your profile"? The un-related stuff could be placed elsewhere.

You've got a couple issues mixed together here.

 

I think part of the confusion is calling the private page "your profile". It isn't my profile. It's my home page. My profile is what is referred to as my "public profile". My home page should provide me access to my profile, but it shouldn't be my profile. (My profile is intended for others, the geocaching.com welcome page is intended for newcomers to the site, and my home page is intended for me.)

 

And yes, there are suggestions on the feedback site for ways to improve the "your profile" home page. Its current state seems to be the result of rather organic development, as features were added and placed where they made sense at the time. Every so often, you need to do a UX analysis and restructure things so they make sense as a whole. But my understanding is that round tuits are in short supply.

 

Facebook integration is available with approximately everything else in the world, I'm suprised Geocaching doesn't have that option (yet). Or maybe I've missed out on it.

There was FB integration for a while. As others indicated, it wasn't terribly popular. And I'm another FB user who blocks games and other apps that post status updates on behalf of my FB friends, so I don't really want Groundspeak investing resources in yet another FB widget that I'll need to block.

 

Improve the Geocaching iPhone app.

FWIW, Groundspeak's mobile apps (iPhone, Android, and Windows) each have their own section on the feedback site.

[sdarken]

....Profiles are a mess...

 

I agree with some of your comments about the profile. The concept of a public and private profile, and the different ways you can use to get to each type of profile, confused me for a long time.

 

...The heart of the problem is that it is difficult to connect with other players..

 

I don't agree with your "connecting with other players" comments. Interacting with other players generally happens first via reading other people's logs and later by meeting people at events or email them. If I want to contact another person I click on their name in a log or on one of their owned caches. It's not difficult. Sure there's a a "Find another player" option but it's rare that I need that. Generally I need to contact someone about a specific cache .

 

Despite my negative comments, thanks for the post. I always find it interesting to get another fresh perspective rather reading the same old topics.

[mtbikernate]

I HATE instant messaging.

 

And don't get me wrong, I started using it way back when. ICQ, AOL, AIM, Yahoo IM, MSN, Trillian (to integrate them), etc. But nowadays, when I go somewhere, I don't want to be bugged instantly. When I use Facebook, I'm offline. Always. I don't even have an IM system installed on any of my 3 pc's OR on my i-gadget. e-mail me for cryin out loud. And if it's more urgent than that, you're going to have my phone number and you can call me.

 

The current messaging system works well. I don't have to reveal my e-mail to anyone I don't want to reveal it to. My privacy is in MY OWN HANDS and that's where I'd like to keep it when I play this game.

 

The profile is irritating to me in that there's not a quick and easy way I've found to switch back and forth between my profile and my public profile. It can go one way easily, but to get back I have to do some roundabout clicking to get there.

 

I think the basic how-to-play information needs to be reorganized and made more prominent for newbies. More encouragement (maybe even some forcing) for them to go there to learn the basics of the game.

 

Cache searching works fine, except maybe the zip code search. I prefer to use the map more often than not, but having to do one extra click to get to the map doesn't bother me at all.

 

And please lord no automatic Facebook integration. Facebook already thinks it can own the internet with its "Like" button (which is why I don't put that dadgum thing on my own website). If you really want to post something there, there's nothing stopping you from sharing the link on your feed manually, either.

 

I don't think the site has any real major issues. It's got a bunch of minor ones, but what site doesn't? The most recent significant site update wasn't all that long ago, so it's not like they've stagnated in offering improvements or anything. They're still working on it.

 

This site does have a social layer for those who might be interested in such a thing. But as you can see, not everyone wants a social layer to their site experience. Maybe it's not exactly how you want it. I dare you to create your own alternate website and make it how you want. Then see how you are doing 10+yrs from now.

[+sseegars]

[Now, in order to prove my loyalty, I have to buy myself a premium account, which I have no need for, no money for, and would serve as no indication that any of my desired improvements would come true.

 

Welcome to geocaching. I have read through this whole thread and while some of your points are valid, I have no problem with this site. I have learned to navigate my way through it.

 

I remember a time when we were basically and underground, hidden, almost secret society type hobby. I miss those days. Lots of cachers I know do.

 

The only problem I have with what you have written in this thread besides the whole email and social networking argument (I vote email is fine and social networking this ain't) is the fact that you seem to think that all this should come about because you want it. You aren't willing to pay for it like a premium member that shells out a small amount ($30 and I get exactly what I paid for and more sometimes) but you want this.

 

Personally, and I don't want to make enemies here, if you don't vote you can't complain. At least that's what I've always heard. In this instance I have to go with if you aren't going to support the site, then don't complain. I'm not attacking you, just that there have been others here in these forums before that love to complain and criticize, but they don't want to support.

 

Also you have been caching a little over three months? Will you be here six months from now? A year? I would much rather have these discussions with a well rounded cacher than someone who may or may not be here within the next 9 months. Although I hope that you have a long and healthy caching career. People nowadays do get bored easily.

 

That being said, get out and cache. I don't get to much because I am a stay at home Dad and my youngest is to young to have out for long periods of time. The area I live in is not as cache rich as I would like although we are working on it. I would like to see our area come out with everything from micro to 5/5 storage container sized hides. Something for everyone.

 

I can say this. I have NEVER had a hobby that made me feel as welcome as Geocaching.

 

Please consider ponying up the $30. Then we can talk about all the changes you want.

[+Harry Dolphin]

Hmm... Geocaching is a game/sport/hobby/whatever. I enjoy it, and I keep coming back. Because I enjoy geocaching.

If I wanted to FacePage or TwitterBook, I'd go there.

I agree with the others. I have an e-mail address. That's where I get all my e-mail! Good place for it! I don't need or want it duplicated here.

The people with whom I wish to IM know where to find me. (Okay. I do have one niece blocked from that...) I certainly do NOT want to have that here. I'd probably stop coming here if it were here! I'm here to do geocaching-type things and/or read the fora. I seldom even check to see if I have PMs. I have e-mail for that.

So: Nope. I'm opposed to faceblogging, and TwitterIMing. This is not the place for that.

USENET? I think that's what I used for dial-up bulletin boarding, before the Internet became available. I enjoyed them. That's all the social interaction I need. Thanks anyway.

[+mtn-man]

<snip>

I have a great example. fizzymagic and I have gone toe to toe here on lots of occasions.

Blah blah blah long winded mtn-man post continues...

 

When the site was established the point was to have a single place where geocachers go to to find a listing of geocaches. It simply needed to provide:

• A way to submit new geocache listings
  
• A way to search for geocaches based on geographic location
  
• A way to log attempts at finding geocaches
  

 

+1.

 

While geocaching is an inherently social activity, it's my belief that chasing the "social networking" fad-of-the-moment would be a long-term disaster. I think that having a fast, reliable database and making mobile apps is a much better use of the developers' time.

See... fizzy and I can agree on stuff. :D

[+spdrbob]

Ohhh endusers always think it could be better and clicking 4 times is too much. You can't design a site that makes all of the users happy. I know I don't want IM here, if I want to talk to someone I'll call them. Website design is very subjective.

 

Tiny font...

[+mtn-man]

This is the official main geocaching site in Sweden: http://www.geocaching.se/

 

This is what the official website should be like if you ask me. The front page has got some news about the site and the organisation, info on newly added caches at the left side, some ads to generate funding, upcoming events and best of all: One main-menu at the top with sub-menus to help navigation. And this is what I mean by ease of accessibility.

 

<vinny snipparino>

 

That's basically a Wordpress platform website.

 

I think you went from some valid suggestions in your first post to completely losing credibility with this one.

I get his point. It isn't that it is produced with a clunky web development software set. It is the overall look and feel and layout that he likes. It isn't that bad from an aesthetic point of view.

[+sseegars]

Wait he has what he wants so we've sat through all this for what?

[+tozainamboku]

<snip>

I have a great example. fizzymagic and I have gone toe to toe here on lots of occasions.

Blah blah blah long winded mtn-man post continues...

 

When the site was established the point was to have a single place where geocachers go to to find a listing of geocaches. It simply needed to provide:

• A way to submit new geocache listings
  
• A way to search for geocaches based on geographic location
  
• A way to log attempts at finding geocaches
  

 

+1.

 

While geocaching is an inherently social activity, it's my belief that chasing the "social networking" fad-of-the-moment would be a long-term disaster. I think that having a fast, reliable database and making mobile apps is a much better use of the developers' time.

See... fizzy and I can agree on stuff. :D