Replacing Caches ?

August 3, 2011

A couple months ago a powercacher (8,000+ finds) blew threw my area. I noticed on the GC's he couldn't find he "replaced" containers - I figure so he could log them as "found" - but perhaps he really thinks he's helping the CO's also. I know one GC actually was MIA, but there was no indication (recent logged DNF's) that the others were.

Anyone else experience this issue? And what's the scoop with it?

7.5k · August 3, 2011

A couple months ago a powercacher (8,000+ finds) blew threw my area. I noticed on the GC's he couldn't find he "replaced" containers - I figure so he could log them as "found" - but perhaps he really thinks he's helping the CO's also. I know one GC actually was MIA, but there was no indication (recent logged DNF's) that the others were.

Anyone else experience this issue? And what's the scoop with it?

Throw downs. Grrrr. :bad: :mad:

I don't think there's anything that can be done about it.

1.3k · August 3, 2011

I believe the general consensus is that replacements should not be placed without the CO's permission.

1.5k · August 3, 2011

I'm not a fan of throwdowns either, for reasons mentioned many times before.

I don't know of any way to stop it.

7.3k · August 3, 2011

If the cache owner knows that it's a throwdown, because he/she didn't place that container, doesn't that make the "found it" log "bogus"?

Therefore, the cache owner can delete the false logs and invite the power cacher to re-log the correct "DNF".

:rolleyes:

August 3, 2011

Throw downs is the name for it eh?

Mmmmeh not a fan of it myself.

So it's all about the numbers for them?

It bugged me when I originally saw the logs - but today I plan on searching for one of them and started wondering if there are now 2 containers to contend with.

Thanks for the scoop.

6.5k · August 3, 2011

I don't do it, I don't encourage others to do it. YMMV

August 3, 2011

I replaced a altoids tin that was rusted through and getting the log wet. I took a new cacher there a year after my find, so I didnt replace to just log. And there were no NM logs on the cache. The CO really apprecaited what I did.

I would never do a throw down. I dont know if I didnt find the cache. It might be well hidden and that could confuse people who find the throwdown and the real cache.

August 3, 2011

If the cache owner knows that it's a throwdown, because he/she didn't place that container, doesn't that make the "found it" log "bogus"?

Therefore, the cache owner can delete the false logs and invite the power cacher to re-log the correct "DNF".

Well played! I like the way you think.

2.1k · August 3, 2011

I'm not a fan of throwdowns either, for reasons mentioned many times before.

I don't know of any way to stop it.

If every CO would delete every found log on every throwdown, it would stop pretty quick.

38.2k · August 3, 2011

...I noticed on the GC's he couldn't find he "replaced" containers - I figure so he could log them as "found" - but perhaps he really thinks he's helping the CO's also...

The only thing he's helping is his find count. It isn't helping the owner by making him make a special maint trip to sort out two containers at the site.

1k · August 3, 2011

started wondering if there are now 2 containers to contend with.

That is the end result problem.

If they are your caches, I would delete his logs and note exactly why.

22k · August 3, 2011

I don't care if my cache was missing, that's an automatic delete. If you're a power cacher, great, that means you should be adapt at finding a cache. If you think that means you can simply throw down a replacement as you please in my book you go from power cacher to a hack cacher.

1.3k · August 3, 2011

Yes, I have also replaced broken containers after finding the original. I will place the contents and log in the replaced container. I've had the same postivie experience from the CO's.

3.7k · August 3, 2011

Yes, I have also replaced broken containers after finding the original. I will place the contents and log in the replaced container. I've had the same postivie experience from the CO's.

I think we're talking 2 different things. What you did was thoughtful and probably just once in a while.

The power cacher we're talking about probably goes about caching with a bag full of film cans and tosses them down whenever he can't find a cache. Why didn't I think of that? My find count would be so much higher! :rolleyes: :blink:

7.3k · August 3, 2011

Yes, I have also replaced broken containers after finding the original. I will place the contents and log in the replaced container. I've had the same postivie experience from the CO's.

That's not a "throw down".

Throw downs are containers you toss out there because you just can't accept the fact that you couldn't find the container put out by the cache owner.

Power cachers with thousands of "finds" who should be posting "DNF's" but aren't have been known to do this sneaky and unethical bit of business.

Edited August 3, 2011 by Pup Patrol

1.1k · August 3, 2011

I'm not a fan of throwdowns either, for reasons mentioned many times before.

I don't know of any way to stop it.

If every CO would delete every found log on every throwdown, it would stop pretty quick.

Agreed! Throwdowns are litter. :blink:

10.1k · August 3, 2011

If one cannot find a cache, the proper log is DNF. Tossing down a film cannister, and claiming a find on it in no way constitutes a "Found it". The Purists refer to this as cheating. We also call it 'inflating the numbers'. We generally hold those caches in disdain, and laugh at them. If it were to happen on one of my caches, I would delete the log as 'bogus'.

7.9k · August 4, 2011

Thankfully, this has only happened to me (one of my caches) once.

I deleted the log and sent a PM thanking them for the effort, but stating I am perfectly capable of maintaining my own caches. Thanks...LOOSER.

Replacing a found but damaged container is a whole 'nother animal.

August 4, 2011

I'll share this link with the CO's in my area that were hit.

Sure wish the GC'er would READ THIS LINK.

Ehhh, I'll just send it to him as well.

August 4, 2011

In 8 years of caching, I am pretty sure this is the only forum entry I have made. kimber007 just notified me that I am the offending "Power Cacher" who evidently "blew through the area." In my own defense: I was in Ohio for a business trip at Wright-Patterson AFB. I had one weekend day to cache then every evening after the event. My Ohio focus was Mystery/Puzzle/Unknown caches. I spent months solving puzzles in anticipation of the trip. My primary intent was to find those puzzle caches I had solved. Between 17 and 24 June I found 105 caches. 51 were puzzle caches, 12 were Earth Caches, 1 Virtual, 1 Event. I cached in 12 counties and 2 states during that week. I needed one D/T combination that required me to rent a boat to get to an island to find it. This is not exactly "power caching." All of this was to meet personal goals ... nothing more. For example, I am working to solve and find 1000 puzzle caches (I am close). I want to hit 100 Earth Caches (I am close). More than that is the fact I logged 12 DNFs, over 10% of all my finds in Ohio. So I did not replace every cache. I did however replace some and three were in gross error. Many COs responded with thanks, one with a correction (I logged a DNF), and one with outright anger. If I had one thing to say about Ohio caches in general (based on a very small sample size) is that they are of very poor quality. There are way too many poorly conceived micros. A puzzle that takes a week to solve will be met with a chewed up 35mm film canister hidden in a guard rail. Should caches be replaced? Depends on your viewpoint. I normally look for multiple DNFs, few CO logs, and general frustration about the lack of find. I carried a few containers in the event I found one that was clearly missing. When you spend hours solving a puzzle, and are 1500 miles from home, it would be very nice if the cache were actually there. I promise you there are many more forum discussions about lack of cache maintenance than about well-intentioned cachers who think they are doing a favor, while at the same time being a little self serving. 'nuff said. By the way, if you think I am a "power cacher," take a look at the statistics for mondou2 a guy I know in Denver. Now that dude is nuts.

And a short note to AZcachemeister ... when you call someone a "loser," I recommend you spell the word correctly. Guilty as charged.

1.7k · August 4, 2011

vorticity,

I see nothing in your posts that defends your position. I do see a lot of self justification but self justification is not a defense.

Throwdowns are wrong for several reasons making the action nothing more than self serving.

Unless you are the CO, a cache is never obviously missing. Just because you though a spot was obvious doesn't mean that that is where it is at. Then there may be the instance where the CO moved it between the time it took you to acquire the coords and get to the location. Then there is the fact that you found nothing, even if the cache is missing, you found nothing by replacing it.

I find it hilarious that you help "very poor quality" caches with very poor quality containers. :lol:

You have:

2 posts in Geocaching Topics

3 posts in GPS and Technology

1 post in Geocoin Discussions

1 post in Geocaching.com Web Site (you stated the thread)

That is 7 posts not 1, it is also strange because your profile says 6 posts.

If you are pretty sure that was the only forum entry you have made and where wrong, what does that say about being sure enough to do a throw down?

1.4k · August 4, 2011

I never would have thought to do that. I have found some that I thought were missing only later to find out they were there. I did replace one broken container but also left the broken one for the cache owner just in case he/she might want it for some reason. I have noticed my phone to post after I post a did not find to also post a copy of found it? I try to delete those.

-WarNinjas

15.3k · August 4, 2011

"If you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop digging." - Will Rogers

1.3k · August 4, 2011

Sure wish the GC'er would READ THIS LINK.

Ehhh, I'll just send it to him as well.

It won't matter. Anyone who throws down a container just so they can claim a find doesn't care about anything but that all important smiley.

In 8 years of caching, I am pretty sure this is the only forum entry I have made. kimber007 just notified me that I am the offending "Power Cacher" who evidently "blew through the area." In my own defense: I was in Ohio for a business trip at Wright-Patterson AFB. I had one weekend day to cache then every evening after the event. My Ohio focus was Mystery/Puzzle/Unknown caches. I spent months solving puzzles in anticipation of the trip. My primary intent was to find those puzzle caches I had solved. Between 17 and 24 June I found 105 caches. 51 were puzzle caches, 12 were Earth Caches, 1 Virtual, 1 Event. I cached in 12 counties and 2 states during that week. I needed one D/T combination that required me to rent a boat to get to an island to find it. This is not exactly "power caching." All of this was to meet personal goals ... nothing more. For example, I am working to solve and find 1000 puzzle caches (I am close). I want to hit 100 Earth Caches (I am close). More than that is the fact I logged 12 DNFs, over 10% of all my finds in Ohio. So I did not replace every cache. I did however replace some and three were in gross error. Many COs responded with thanks, one with a correction (I logged a DNF), and one with outright anger. If I had one thing to say about Ohio caches in general (based on a very small sample size) is that they are of very poor quality. There are way too many poorly conceived micros. A puzzle that takes a week to solve will be met with a chewed up 35mm film canister hidden in a guard rail. Should caches be replaced? Depends on your viewpoint. I normally look for multiple DNFs, few CO logs, and general frustration about the lack of find. I carried a few containers in the event I found one that was clearly missing. When you spend hours solving a puzzle, and are 1500 miles from home, it would be very nice if the cache were actually there. I promise you there are many more forum discussions about lack of cache maintenance than about well-intentioned cachers who think they are doing a favor, while at the same time being a little self serving. 'nuff said. By the way, if you think I am a "power cacher," take a look at the statistics for mondou2 a guy I know in Denver. Now that dude is nuts.

And a short note to AZcachemeister ... when you call someone a "loser," I recommend you spell the word correctly. Guilty as charged.

In other words, you spent time working on solving puzzles and then just couldn't accept the reality that you wouldn't be able to claim a find for those caches. Oh, the horror. I've been there...it sucks to put work into a cache and not find it but that's part of the game.

2.8k · August 4, 2011

If you throw down a new container because you can't find a cache you still have found nothing so you can't log a find. Pretty straight forward, no? I'd delete the log in a heartbeat.

1.5k · August 4, 2011

' timestamp='1312438593' post='4798104']
If you throw down a new container because you can't find a cache you still have found nothing so you can't log a find. Pretty straight forward, no? I'd delete the log in a heartbeat.

Yep

August 4, 2011

You've got to love how he attacks the quality of Ohio caches after only visiting a small part of the state! Based on this guy's comments and behavior, is it any wonder he is alone in all of his caching photos, lol. I would delete his drop post without a second thought.

August 4, 2011

I'm not defending either position, but I can say that locally, I've seen MANY others do it. However, the difference is that I've only seen it done when the CO hasn't logged on in over a year, and the hiding spot should be obvious. (i.e., the hint says GR and there's nothing in the guard rails at GZ).

With that being said, I've never seen anyone replace a container if the CO is active.

August 4, 2011

If the CO hasn't logged in for a year, then maybe it would be best to just have the cache archived. Afterwords, put your own magnetic key holder there.

5k · August 10, 2011

I'm not defending either position, but I can say that locally, I've seen MANY others do it. However, the difference is that I've only seen it done when the CO hasn't logged on in over a year, and the hiding spot should be obvious. (i.e., the hint says GR and there's nothing in the guard rails at GZ).

With that being said, I've never seen anyone replace a container if the CO is active.

In this case, it would be much better to post a NA. Placing a throw down does two things. Gets you a smiley and it puts a cheap cache out that still has no CO to maintain it.

We had a local "one day cacher" place one. It was gone the next morning when the FTFers came to look. One of them dropped a throw down and then claimed FTF on it. A week later it was gone again and another cacher dropped a throw down and claimed his find. This went on for six months with about eight throw downs and only five people actually finding a container that they didn't bring with them. Of course, no one found the original cache, yet a whole bunch of smileys were dispersed.

If there is no CO, post a NA and end the silliness.

August 13, 2011

Replacing a cache that you have found and is damaged is fine, in fact I would go further to say it is a thoroughly decent thing to do as it helps keep caches maintained when the owner hasn't been able to do it, hasn't noticed or just doesn't care anymore.

On the other hand placing a new cache because you think the existing one is missing I see as wrong and problematic. Certainly in some cases you may be correct - the cache has gone, nobody is caring for it so this gives a new lease of life to a cache that would be otherwise archived. At the same time the cache could be there and you just failed to find it, which means there are now two caches that could be find, perhaps a tricky original replaced by a new easy one, or a new one in a slightly mistaken location. sure you may have 8000 caches under your belt, but that doesn't mean you are infallible and have the right to do something like this without contacting the CO or someone who has already found it.

October 20, 2011

I have been wondering about this lately! I was at a LPS and it was missing, a couple pulled up and placed a new 35mm canister under it. Signed the log and said they will contact the CO. I personally didn't think this is right just to get a smiley but the CO accepted it as she didn't have time to go replace it. It also was a pretty obvious hide.

Now fast forward to one of my hides that I disabled due to the fact that someone glued the PVC fence post cap down so now the cache is not retrievable. I have not been able to get out there to fix or find a new spot. A cacher e-mailed me that they were coming out to hit up the bike trail and offered to replace for me. I didn't respond back due to being a unique hide and how I attach to the cap. Low and behold they claimed as a find after they put out a bison tube on the other side of the path and wrote down new cords in their post!!!!! WTF really?? Granted it was nice of them to offer and they did maintain some wet/full logs along the path but to place a new cache and then have the balls to claim as a find too?? Here is a brief part of the their log... (We saw that a previous log stated that a prior finder came back and did not find it and that the hiding spot was not accessible. We replaced the cache (with a bison tube) in a spot worthy. Here are coords. )

Can't wait to go out and fix mine and grab the bison tube and re-hide somewhere else for myself!

1.9k · October 20, 2011

I have a cache thats hard that has a throwdown problem.

When i get logs like "i could see it walking up to it" i go retrieve the thrown down film cannister then a few DNF logs before someone else throws another down. the original container has only 3 logs, the other 26 are throwdown logs.

October 20, 2011

So what are the rules against 'throw downs'?

October 20, 2011

GS mades it very clear, (from adoption procedures) Individual geocaches are owned by the person(s) who physically placed the geocache and/or submitted the geocache listing to geocaching.com. Therefore under no circumstance can you add a cache without CO permission. I understand the frustration of traveling miles spending time etc, and then not finding a cache. The distance/time issue is really illrelevant, as it even happens locally. We all have to accept it's just part of the game. There are procedures in place by logging notes, requests for archive etc. that address the issue of missing caches.

10.2k · October 20, 2011

I have been wondering about this lately! I was at a LPS and it was missing, a couple pulled up and placed a new 35mm canister under it. Signed the log and said they will contact the CO. I personally didn't think this is right just to get a smiley but the CO accepted it as she didn't have time to go replace it. It also was a pretty obvious hide.

Now fast forward to one of my hides that I disabled due to the fact that someone glued the PVC fence post cap down so now the cache is not retrievable. I have not been able to get out there to fix or find a new spot. A cacher e-mailed me that they were coming out to hit up the bike trail and offered to replace for me. I didn't respond back due to being a unique hide and how I attach to the cap. Low and behold they claimed as a find after they put out a bison tube on the other side of the path and wrote down new cords in their post!!!!! WTF really?? Granted it was nice of them to offer and they did maintain some wet/full logs along the path but to place a new cache and then have the balls to claim as a find too?? Here is a brief part of the their log... (We saw that a previous log stated that a prior finder came back and did not find it and that the hiding spot was not accessible. We replaced the cache (with a bison tube) in a spot worthy. Here are coords. )

Can't wait to go out and fix mine and grab the bison tube and re-hide somewhere else for myself!

Oh my goodness. Another log from the same party says:

"On a successful record #s run on the ELT and some surrounding caches with ______ and __________ today. The group only DNFed one, replaced several wet/full logs, and reset a couple caches on the trail"

Well, I will say that they think they're helping out. And like Forest Gump, that's all I have to say about that.

October 20, 2011

GS mades it very clear, (from adoption procedures) Individual geocaches are owned by the person(s) who physically placed the geocache and/or submitted the geocache listing to geocaching.com. Therefore under no circumstance can you add a cache without CO permission. I understand the frustration of traveling miles spending time etc, and then not finding a cache. The distance/time issue is really illrelevant, as it even happens locally. We all have to accept it's just part of the game. There are procedures in place by logging notes, requests for archive etc. that address the issue of missing caches.

It appears the only one who has a say in it is the CO. Sounds like enforcement is next to useless! It goes to show most everything about geocaching is on the honor system. Withthe number of absentee CO's out there and me with a bag of a a couple hunderd or more micro film containers, I could probably create a great showing on my stat board today. Of course I like keeping my personal stat count for finds down to only #1.

14k · October 20, 2011

I'm not a fan of throwdowns either, for reasons mentioned many times before.

I don't know of any way to stop it.

If every CO would delete every found log on every throwdown, it would stop pretty quick.

In the "Guide to Geocaching" page under the "Finding Caches" section there are several relevant questions/answers.

The first is:

"How do I find the cache and what should I do once I've found it?"

The answer describes a basic approach to finding geocaches, signing the log, trading swag, and replacing the cache in the same place it was found.

The second is:

"What should I do if I discover that a cache has gone missing?"

The answer describes logging a DNF and escalating to a Need Maintenance log if necessary.

Note the question that is *not* asked and answered is:

"What should I do if I don't find the cache?"

Now, I realize that there are a lot of geocacher that never actually read the Guide but it seems to me that the question about a cache that has gone missing should be replaced with "What should I do if I don't find the cache?" and the answer could include text about the cache just being hard to find or that it may be missing. It could also include something about finding a cache that is damaged or destroyed and something about "throw downs". It might also be useful to add something in the Finding Caches section about minimizing impact on the environment, respecting property rights (and other things described in the Geocachers Creed), and perhaps something about "What should I do if I find a cache which violates the placement guidelines?".

8k · October 20, 2011

So what are the rules against 'throw downs'?

It appears the only one who has a say in it is the CO. Sounds like enforcement is next to useless! It goes to show most everything about geocaching is on the honor system. Withthe number of absentee CO's out there and me with a bag of a a couple hunderd or more micro film containers, I could probably create a great showing on my stat board today. Of course I like keeping my personal stat count for finds down to only #1.

There's no prize, no leaderboard, and no trophy, so there's no reason get your knickers in a twist about anyone else's definition of a find. If someone wants to count the replacement the left as find the certainly can. Cache owner's can delete the log and remove the replacement if it causes a problem.

Geocaching is a fun activity. It's usually more fun when you find the cache than when you get a DNF so it's reasonable that if you know the cache is missing and can leave a replacement you're helping out other cachers by making it more fun. However, often cache owner's have created a special camouflage or a unique container to make their cache stand out. A finder who simply assumes the cache is missing because they didn't find it and drops a replacement container can actually mess up the experience the cache owner intended. Instead of finding the clever hide which is still there, the next cacher finds the throw down and thinks what a boring cache. This isn't fair to the cache owner. IMO, replacement caches should only be done with the owner's permission. (I haven't posted in gcrm thread, but this seems to me as a simple way for cache owners to give permission for replacement hides on their cache pages. Whether it's a good idea to give this sort of blanket permission is another story.)

3.2k · October 20, 2011

Hey I left a $100 bill in a knot hole in a tree in my back yard. If you can't find it please replace it with a new one.

October 20, 2011

Now, I realize that there are a lot of geocacher that never actually read the Guide but it seems to me that the question about a cache that has gone missing should be replaced with "What should I do if I don't find the cache?" and the answer could include text about the cache just being hard to find or that it may be missing. It could also include something about finding a cache that is damaged or destroyed and something about "throw downs". It might also be useful to add something in the Finding Caches section about minimizing impact on the environment, respecting property rights (and other things described in the Geocachers Creed), and perhaps something about "What should I do if I find a cache which violates the placement guidelines?".

Or/and "What should I not do if I don't find the cache?"

Edited October 20, 2011 by THE REAL BOUDICA

October 20, 2011

So what are the rules against 'throw downs'?

It appears the only one who has a say in it is the CO. Sounds like enforcement is next to useless! It goes to show most everything about geocaching is on the honor system. Withthe number of absentee CO's out there and me with a bag of a a couple hunderd or more micro film containers, I could probably create a great showing on my stat board today. Of course I like keeping my personal stat count for finds down to only #1.

There's no prize, no leaderboard, and no trophy, so there's no reason get your knickers in a twist about anyone else's definition of a find. If someone wants to count the replacement the left as find the certainly can. Cache owner's can delete the log and remove the replacement if it causes a problem.

Geocaching is a fun activity. It's usually more fun when you find the cache than when you get a DNF so it's reasonable that if you know the cache is missing and can leave a replacement you're helping out other cachers by making it more fun. However, often cache owner's have created a special camouflage or a unique container to make their cache stand out. A finder who simply assumes the cache is missing because they didn't find it and drops a replacement container can actually mess up the experience the cache owner intended. Instead of finding the clever hide which is still there, the next cacher finds the throw down and thinks what a boring cache. This isn't fair to the cache owner. IMO, replacement caches should only be done with the owner's permission. (I haven't posted in gcrm thread, but this seems to me as a simple way for cache owners to give permission for replacement hides on their cache pages. Whether it's a good idea to give this sort of blanket permission is another story.)

Is this directed at me? Sorry for my twisted knickers! I did not realize my simple question asking if there were rules on 'throw downs' cause a stir. I will concede that it is a 'twisted knicker' question in finding what's up with that? I tend to keep my personal stats to myself and do not care how you or anyone else play the game. In asking questions I get to know different ways to play the game and how people interpret them; than I choose my own path. I guess if talking about geocaching and their 'shortcuts' puts people in a uproar. So be it! I'm not for or against anything, I just want to know what's up with that?

Edited October 20, 2011 by TorgtheViking

October 21, 2011

If the cache owner knows that it's a throwdown, because he/she didn't place that container, doesn't that make the "found it" log "bogus"?

Therefore, the cache owner can delete the false logs and invite the power cacher to re-log the correct "DNF".

+1

completely agree

October 24, 2011

Now fast forward to one of my hides that I disabled due to the fact that someone glued the PVC fence post cap down so now the cache is not retrievable. I have not been able to get out there to fix or find a new spot. A cacher e-mailed me that they were coming out to hit up the bike trail and offered to replace for me. I didn't respond back due to being a unique hide and how I attach to the cap. Low and behold they claimed as a find after they put out a bison tube on the other side of the path and wrote down new cords in their post!!!!! WTF really?? Granted it was nice of them to offer and they did maintain some wet/full logs along the path but to place a new cache and then have the balls to claim as a find too?? Here is a brief part of the their log... (We saw that a previous log stated that a prior finder came back and did not find it and that the hiding spot was not accessible. We replaced the cache (with a bison tube) in a spot worthy. Here are coords. )

So I finally made a stop today to repair my cache and decided to delete the logs with them placing the new cache. I send them this as nice as possible as reason...

Regarding AREA 51 hide, I'm sorry but I don't allow throwdown caches to be logged as a find. I didn't allow the hide so I will be deleting the log. Area 51 is back up and running and you are welcome to come and find the hide like I intended it to be hid.

I get this as a responce from one of the members...

Hmmm. I guess I am a bit taken back. You had a cache with DNFs dating back to May with confirmation from a previous finder that it was missing and yet no maintenance by you. Then we use a personal container and put one out there at least until you can get out for maintenance and you decide to delete the log? If you did not like where the replacement was, that is cool and you can re-hide but to delete the log?

If the roles were reversed, I would have said "Thanks" and "much appreciated" rather than taking the steps you did. Not cool.

Later.

So I respond..

Well, sorry to disappoint you that you didn't get a smilie but I never asked for you to place one but you had the nerve to do so, so you could just chalk it up as another find. I may be newer to this game and I would never have the nerve to just place a cache down cause I couldn't find it or there was a string of DNFs. It would be a different story if my container was broke or the logs were wet or missing. I applaud you for taking the time to help out others repair their caches as I do the same when possible. P.S. my cache was still there and I did retrieve it today but it was very tough to do so. So I MADE a new one and placed a few feet away from the original location but the same type of hide. Who's to say those few DNFs before the last one just didn't find my location??? I try to maintain my caches as fast as I can but there is other things more important sometimes like a family, health and a job!

And if roles were reversed I would have marked down a DNF or even not gone after a temporarily disabled cache (they usually are for a reason!). So not cool on your part to take it upon yourself to replace peoples hides without there permission!

Later,

Edited October 24, 2011 by Iggyace

6.1k · October 24, 2011

Some cache owners appreciate replacements, some don't. If you have found it previously and return a second time with someone else only to find it missing, in most cases an exact replica is ok. If you don't know the CO, or have never found it, then it's probably not a good idea.

1.9k · October 24, 2011

Now fast forward to one of my hides that I disabled due to the fact that someone glued the PVC fence post cap down so now the cache is not retrievable. I have not been able to get out there to fix or find a new spot. A cacher e-mailed me that they were coming out to hit up the bike trail and offered to replace for me. I didn't respond back due to being a unique hide and how I attach to the cap. Low and behold they claimed as a find after they put out a bison tube on the other side of the path and wrote down new cords in their post!!!!! WTF really?? Granted it was nice of them to offer and they did maintain some wet/full logs along the path but to place a new cache and then have the balls to claim as a find too?? Here is a brief part of the their log... (We saw that a previous log stated that a prior finder came back and did not find it and that the hiding spot was not accessible. We replaced the cache (with a bison tube) in a spot worthy. Here are coords. )

So I finally made a stop today to repair my cache and decided to delete the logs with them placing the new cache. I send them this as nice as possible as reason...

Regarding AREA 51 hide, I'm sorry but I don't allow throwdown caches to be logged as a find. I didn't allow the hide so I will be deleting the log. Area 51 is back up and running and you are welcome to come and find the hide like I intended it to be hid.

I get this as a responce from one of the members...

Hmmm. I guess I am a bit taken back. You had a cache with DNFs dating back to May with confirmation from a previous finder that it was missing and yet no maintenance by you. Then we use a personal container and put one out there at least until you can get out for maintenance and you decide to delete the log? If you did not like where the replacement was, that is cool and you can re-hide but to delete the log?

If the roles were reversed, I would have said "Thanks" and "much appreciated" rather than taking the steps you did. Not cool.

Later.

So I respond..

Well, sorry to disappoint you that you didn't get a smilie but I never asked for you to place one but you had the nerve to do so, so you could just chalk it up as another find. I may be newer to this game and I would never have the nerve to just place a cache down cause I couldn't find it or there was a string of DNFs. It would be a different story if my container was broke or the logs were wet or missing. I applaud you for taking the time to help out others repair their caches as I do the same when possible. P.S. my cache was still there and I did retrieve it today but it was very tough to do so. So I MADE a new one and placed a few feet away from the original location but the same type of hide. Who's to say those few DNFs before the last one just didn't find my location??? I try to maintain my caches as fast as I can but there is other things more important sometimes like a family, health and a job!

And if roles were reversed I would have marked down a DNF or even not gone after a temporarily disabled cache (they usually are for a reason!). So not cool on your part to take it upon yourself to replace peoples hides without there permission!

Later,

the moral of the story: if you're going to do a throw down, don't say you did a throwdown on the found it log.

9.3k · October 25, 2011

Hey I left a $100 bill in a knot hole in a tree in my back yard. If you can't find it please replace it with a new one.

Oops... I found the $100 bill, but assumed it was a FTF prize from a cache stolen by squirrels. As it is a long established fact that squirrels hate Ben Franklin, I assumed they tossed the bill when they stole the cache. I plopped in a film can as a replacement 'cuz I couldn't accept a DNF. Sorry! <_<

October 25, 2011

I would never leave a throwdown at a cache site, even those that invite people to do so. Throwdowns can be annoying to COs when they're not noticed quickly too.

The second cache I found has since turned out to be a throwdown someone else placed without noting it in their log. The original cache container was still in place, just hidden better. As multiple people had signed the "log" in the second container, and would not have looked for or expected to find 2 containers, the CO decided not to delete the logs of those who signed the throwdown container. I only discovered this recently by looking through logs of caches I'd done before, and now that I know I decided (and made a note stating) that if I ever am in that area again, I will re-find that cache properly. Then I'll change my old find to a note and log a new find on the real container. It wasn't even much of a container, just a pill bottle with the label torn off and a piece of notepad paper in it. I wasn't sure at first it was even a Geocache. But once I saw the log, with other names on it, it was obvious what it was. (Or at least was intended to be.) Now though I'd be a bit more suspicious of a container like that, it was a bit too easy, and had no camo at all. It's like someone just decided on the spot to use a pill bottle they happened to have.

3.6k · October 26, 2011

If the cache owner knows that it's a throwdown, because he/she didn't place that container, doesn't that make the "found it" log "bogus"?

Therefore, the cache owner can delete the false logs and invite the power cacher to re-log the correct "DNF".

I had that happen to me. I had an evil nano on a bench. Dnfs but most would just come back and try again. Then I noticed cachers saying the find was easy. A friend went and checked it to find a 35mm hanging in a tree with a piece of paper from a phone book. I didn't even have to say much and the cachers who suspected it was bogus removed their own logs and went back and found the right one. Except one who I deleted the log with a note why and they never responded. Suspecting they were the one who did it because they were the first to say it was easy and first on the logsheet. Oh the nano was still on the bench.

Replacing Caches ?

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