Is it wrong to mail TB's to another user in another state?

[z0mbieCache]

IF THIS IS ALLOWED, DOES ANYONE WANT TO TAKE THESE?

 

I would like to mail two travel bugs to another user to get some distance on them. I don't get out of SW Pennsylvania too much and would like to see these bugs get some distance. They are not my TB's they are ones I picked up along the way.

 

So, is this a frowned upon thing, or is it ok to do?

 

If it is ok, is there anyone out of PA that would help move these a bit?

 

One came from Ohio and the Other from Canada... would like to get some southward direction on them

[+Gan Dalf]

IF THIS IS ALLOWED, DOES ANYONE WANT TO TAKE THESE?

 

I would like to mail two travel bugs to another user to get some distance on them. I don't get out of SW Pennsylvania too much and would like to see these bugs get some distance. They are not my TB's they are ones I picked up along the way.

 

So, is this a frowned upon thing, or is it ok to do?

 

If it is ok, is there anyone out of PA that would help move these a bit?

 

One came from Ohio and the Other from Canada... would like to get some southward direction on them

 

I would ask the ownner of the bugs if they mind. If they don't then you can mail them to me. I live in Washington State so that would be about a 2200 mile jump... Please send along the OK from the CO for verification.

 

There used to be TB portals called stargates where the owners of the stargates did just what you are asking about. It's usually done to get the bug closer to it's goal but if that is a precedence than I think it is OK. I know there is a Stargate near me but no one wants to put anything in it anymore because it has become a place for coin thieves to pilfer from.

[z0mbieCache]

thanks for the heads up FobesMan... I searched nearby caches and found a Stargate directly across the river from my house!

 

I will have to swing by there and drop these off!

 

Thanks for the info!

[+BlueDeuce]

Stargates are not a substitution for common courtesy. Travel bugs are meant to travel via caches and if the owner wanted the bug to reach the goal in one jump they would have mailed it there themselves.

 

Make a reasonable attempt to move the bug but don't assume you are helping the owner by cutting the journey short.

 

 

 

bd

Edited September 23, 2011 by BlueDeuce

[+The Blorenges]

Yes, as BlueDeuce says, check with the owners first.

 

If they were your own trackables you could mail them anywhere you want to start them off on their travels.

 

I'm always happy to receive any by mail, for putting out here in the U.K. and there's also the Trackables World Release Register for releasing in other countries... although I'm not sure how up-to-date it is.

 

MrsB

[+germanybert]

There is nothing in the guidlines that says this it is wrong to mail a TB to another geocacher.

[+The Blorenges]

There is nothing in the guidlines that says this it is wrong to mail a TB to another geocacher.

 

You're right, I've never found it in the guidelines, or the instructions on how to log travel bugs. However, it is mentioned in the pinned post above, by Eartha, the Mod on this forum: "How to log a travel bug or geocoin" (About halfway down)

 

It makes sense to me. As BlueDeuce says, if I wanted my trackable to be mailed to a certain town/country I could easily have contacted a cacher there and posted it myself.

 

MrsB

[+germanybert]

Ok, I see that now. IMHO that should be put in the guidelines since the majority of people who geocache or grab trackables probably don't even read these forums.

[+Eartha]

There is nothing in the guidlines that says this it is wrong to mail a TB to another geocacher.

Not everything needs to be written down. We don't want to over-regulate people. But the guidelines tell us the object of a TB is to travel and be tracked from cache to cacher to cache. It does not tell us to mail it. It's just common courtesy to ask an owner first.

[+The Blorenges]

There is nothing in the guidlines that says this it is wrong to mail a TB to another geocacher.

Not everything needs to be written down. We don't want to over-regulate people. But the guidelines tell us the object of a TB is to travel and be tracked from cache to cacher to cache. It does not tell us to mail it. It's just common courtesy to ask an owner first.

 

I understand what you're saying but enthusiastic newer geocachers are often eager to assist trackables. They may see that one has a mission to "Go to XXXXXXX country" and think, "Ooooooo! I know cacherXYZ over there. I can send this TB to him. I'll really be helping it along on its mission - The owner will be so thrilled when they see it's got to that country..." without fully considering the implications of putting a TB in the post to wherever.

 

I think it would be useful to have a few words of guidance as to why it's not such a good idea explained in the Knowledge Books.

 

MrsB

[+germanybert]

I also think it would be good to have something about this in the Knowledge Books. I have mailed a TB to a friend in the USA to help it out and never even considered it wrong until I read this thread.

 

What about GIVING a trackable to a friend or family member instead of mailing it? As an American living in Germany I have family and friends that are geocachers that come over and visit. Is it wrong to give them a trackable to take back to the USA with them?

Edited September 23, 2011 by GermanyBert

[+Walts Hunting]

thanks for the heads up FobesMan... I searched nearby caches and found a Stargate directly across the river from my house!

 

I will have to swing by there and drop these off!

 

Thanks for the info!

 

Which stargate are you close to?

 

I have the one in central california and have mailed hundreds of travelers and have never, ever had an owner complain.

[+Walts Hunting]

There is nothing in the guidlines that says this it is wrong to mail a TB to another geocacher.

Not everything needs to be written down. We don't want to over-regulate people. But the guidelines tell us the object of a TB is to travel and be tracked from cache to cacher to cache. It does not tell us to mail it. It's just common courtesy to ask an owner first.

 

I have to disagree about the philosophy of not everything has to be written down. There was a country (which cannot be mentioned in logs because of the goodwin rule) in which only things written into law were legal and those not written into law were by definition illegal for which you could be arrested.

 

I would argue that if the rules don't prohibit an activity than it is legal. Kind of similar to the "Frisbee" argument used by many cachers for placement. The froggie is well aware of the Stargate series (how could they not be) and has never raised an objection. That is another argument as to its "legality".

 

As to whether or not it is correct etiquette well that is open for discussion (and has been many times).

[+NanCycle]

I also think it would be good to have something about this in the Knowledge Books. I have mailed a TB to a friend in the USA to help it out and never even considered it wrong until I read this thread.

 

What about GIVING a trackable to a friend or family member instead of mailing it? As an American living in Germany I have family and friends that are geocachers that come over and visit. Is it wrong to give them a trackable to take back to the USA with them?

 

As long as the friends/family are geocachers it would be fine for them to "grab" the trackables from you. Or if you are out caching together, you could "drop" them in a cache and they could immmediately "retrieve" them. It is not wise to give trackables to non-geocachers.

[z0mbieCache]

Which stargate are you close to?

 

Stargate P4079 TB Cache

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=32085d49-6e1c-4284-9b60-cdda545ed1c3

 

less than 2 miles

Edited September 23, 2011 by z0mbieCache

[+Eartha]

This right here is why it's common courtesy to ask a Trackable owner if they mind if you mail their trackable.

[+Walts Hunting]

Which stargate are you close to?

 

Stargate P4079 TB Cache

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=32085d49-6e1c-4284-9b60-cdda545ed1c3

 

less than 2 miles

 

He is the originator of the whole system. I had to apply to him for membership. He has done a nice job.

[+BlueDeuce]

He is the originator of the whole system. I had to apply to him for membership. He has done a nice job.

 

For the record, I don't recall ever having to deal with a complaint involving a stargate cache. Questions only.

[+Walts Hunting]

He is the originator of the whole system. I had to apply to him for membership. He has done a nice job.

 

For the record, I don't recall ever having to deal with a complaint involving a stargate cache. Questions only.

 

Thank you. I really do think there is a difference between just mailing them from friend to friend (or even just someone you got on the internet) and a somewhat organized group that takes pride in what they do. Before I mail one I check the destination gate to see if the owner has been active recently just to make sure and have never had a problem. If we do we notify Dross and he takes action.

 

I would concede that is courteous to ask permission as Eartha says and some of the gate owners may. But (at least according to my wife) that is a skill that seems to have gone undeveloped in me.

[+germanybert]

I also think it would be good to have something about this in the Knowledge Books. I have mailed a TB to a friend in the USA to help it out and never even considered it wrong until I read this thread.

 

What about GIVING a trackable to a friend or family member instead of mailing it? As an American living in Germany I have family and friends that are geocachers that come over and visit. Is it wrong to give them a trackable to take back to the USA with them?

 

As long as the friends/family are geocachers it would be fine for them to "grab" the trackables from you. Or if you are out caching together, you could "drop" them in a cache and they could immmediately "retrieve" them. It is not wise to give trackables to non-geocachers.

 

I never said I would give or mail one to a non-geocacher, whether the person was family or friend.

[+NanCycle]

I also think it would be good to have something about this in the Knowledge Books. I have mailed a TB to a friend in the USA to help it out and never even considered it wrong until I read this thread.

 

What about GIVING a trackable to a friend or family member instead of mailing it? As an American living in Germany I have family and friends that are geocachers that come over and visit. Is it wrong to give them a trackable to take back to the USA with them?

 

As long as the friends/family are geocachers it would be fine for them to "grab" the trackables from you. Or if you are out caching together, you could "drop" them in a cache and they could immmediately "retrieve" them. It is not wise to give trackables to non-geocachers.

 

I never said I would give or mail one to a non-geocacher, whether the person was family or friend.

 

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you were doing that. In fact, you did specify that the family and friends are geocachers. But you aren't the only person who will be reading this thread, and that sentence was really directed to those people who would read only that it is okay to give trackables to others to take somewhere with them, without giving full consideration as to what is likely to happen when they get there.

[Narcosynthesis]

As stated there is nothing in the rules that prevents you from doing this, so it is legal, it jut comes down to an ethics issue.

 

The only real answer is to ask the bug owner and get their opinion on it - as mentioned some will consider it a cheat to have a bug posted a fair chunk of the distance and removing the story accrued during its travels, some will be rather pleased someone is willing to go to the effort (and cost) of doing something like this.

 

Handing a travel bug over in person to someone going the right way I see as perfectly fine - really no different from dropping it in a cache and the next person collecting it and travelling with it personally (as is the mission of travel bugs) and is really just good planning. The difference is you are not just mailing it the whole way, somebody is actually travelling the distance (and most likely not going straight to the bugs end destination, but merely taking it a fair step closer.

[+BlueDeuce]

It's not just ethics it's also concept.

 

Cacher 1: "I'm going to release a bug and have it journey to the destination.

Cacher 2. "Hey, I know someone at that location. (Drops it in the mail)

Cacher 1. "You know, if I wanted it at the location immediately I could have found someone willing to take it.

Cacher 2. "There's nothing in the guidelines that says I can't.

Cacher 1. "Really, You couldn't have asked first? I mean I did pay for the dang thing and set the goal.

Cacher 2. "Once you release it you no longer have possession of it."

Cacher 1. "What the....?"

 

Edited September 26, 2011 by BlueDeuce

[hoosier guy]

Funny how some things come under the "lotsa ways to play the game' montra and some don't.

[+Gan Dalf]

Funny how some things come under the "lotsa ways to play the game' montra and some don't.

 

I'm not sure what you are eluding to with this post. Are you saying that owners of travelers wishes are immaterial and should only be considered if the current holder of the trackable wants to help it out or are you saying that if someone finds a trackable in a cache, again, despite the wishes of the person that released it, they are perfectly justified if they decide to keep it and not move it along to help it towards it's goal?

Edited September 27, 2011 by FobesMan

[+BlueDeuce]

Funny how some things come under the "lotsa ways to play the game' montra and some don't.

 

Yep.

[+The Blorenges]

It's not just ethics it's also concept.

 

Cacher 1: "I'm going to release a bug and have it journey to the destination.

Cacher 2. "Hey, I know someone at that location. (Drops it in the mail)

Cacher 1. "You know, if I wanted it at the location immediately I could have found someone willing to take it.

Cacher 2. "There's nothing in the guidelines that says I can't.

Cacher 1. "Really, You couldn't have asked first? I mean I did pay for the dang thing and set the goal.

Cacher 2. "Once you release it you no longer have possession of it."

Cacher 1. "What the....?"

 

 

Because this question comes up quite regularly, not just here but on other regional geocaching forums I still think it's worth having some clarifying guidance written in black and white. I know of many occasions when cachers have mailed TBs, not realising that they've done anything wrong.

 

The above convo could have gone thus:

 

Cacher 1: "I'm going to release a bug and have it journey to the destination.

Cacher 2. "Hey, I know someone who lives nearer to that location. (Drops it in the mail)

Cacher 1. "You know, if I wanted it at the location immediately I could have found someone willing to take it.

Cacher 2. "But... but... I haven't sent it right to the location, I've just got it into the right state/country for you. It's still got x hundred miles to travel. There's nothing in the guidelines that says I can't.

Cacher 1. "Really, You couldn't have asked first? I mean I did pay for the dang thing and set the goal.

Cacher 2. "I didn't see any need to ask first. I thought I was following the goal as stated. Sorry for trying to be helpful ."

Cacher 1. "What the....?"

 

MrsB

[+Eartha]

Look, it's in writing:

 

ASK FIRST.

 

From the trackables home page:

 

What is a Groundspeak Travel Bug?

Simply put, a Groundspeak Travel Bug is a trackable tag that you attach to an item. This allows you to track your item on Geocaching.com. The item becomes a hitchhiker that is carried from cache to cache (or person to person) in the real world and you can follow its progress online.

 

Nothing in there about mail at all. Mailing is not caching. Ask the owner first and no one can get mad at you. If the owner doesn't answer, don't mail it.

 

Edit to add, you cannot follow not follow its progress online when it's getting lost being sent through the mail.

Edited September 27, 2011 by Eartha

[+The Blorenges]

From reading these forums I've picked up on various finer points of trackables etiquette, including the fact that there are a lot of concerns about mail going missing in some places. From my perspective, it's not immediately apparent to cachers (especially newer ones) that mailing is "not done".

 

It would just make my mission to educate cachers in the whys and wherefores of trackables that bit easier if I could say to them, "No, please don't do it. Look - There's a bit about it here, in the Knowledge book... It says, clearly, Don't mail trackables..."

 

I rest my case.

 

MrsB

Edited September 28, 2011 by The Blorenges

[hwlrmnky]

I'd be delighted if someone helped my trackable along using the mail.

[+Crow-T-Robot]

Look, it's in writing:

 

ASK FIRST.

 

From the trackables home page:

 

What is a Groundspeak Travel Bug?

Simply put, a Groundspeak Travel Bug is a trackable tag that you attach to an item. This allows you to track your item on Geocaching.com. The item becomes a hitchhiker that is carried from cache to cache (or person to person) in the real world and you can follow its progress online.

 

Nothing in there about mail at all. Mailing is not caching. Ask the owner first and no one can get mad at you. If the owner doesn't answer, don't mail it.

 

Edit to add, you cannot follow not follow its progress online when it's getting lost being sent through the mail.

 

Can I make the suggestion to change the wording from "person to person" to "geocacher to geocacher"? I can see someone new to trackables taking that wording to mean they could hand the TB off to their non-caching buddies and it would still track in the system.

 

Otherwise, I agree that the owner has the only call when it comes to mailing a bug. I've mailed TB's with the owners blessing and have had owners tell me no when I've asked. It's not hard to ask.