The World's first Geotar!

[+wwbd]

Hi, I just wanted to show everyone the guitar I painted with the geocaching.com logo. To my knowledge, no one has ever done this. I call it a Geotar and it is trackable.

 

I originally paid $4 at a thrift store for the guitar. It was painted pink, had two strings & blue marker scribbled all over it.

 

I made some minor repairs and got the idea of painting it with the geocaching.com logo. My friend and fellow geocacher MWFF suggested I make the guitar trackable as well so I ordered a travel bug tag to get a number.

 

The label inside of the guitar uses the trackable number as the guitar's serial number. Obviously a guitar will not fit into a geocache so I took a picture and put it in an acrylic keychain and attached the travel bug dog tag to it for the trackable item. You can see that hanging on the left side in the picture.

 

 

Here is a link to the original guitar and all the various stages with bigger pictures. Everything was done with about $30 of sandpaper, spray paint, primer, masking tape, lacquer and some Sharpies over the course of a few weeks.

 

I did change one thing about the logo in that the flag on the orange part it reversed, otherwise it would be where the sound hole is and not visible. The colors only are repeated on the back.

Edited December 12, 2011 by wwbd

[knowschad]

Fun project! You did a particularly nice job on the headstock logo. How did you do that?

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

Now you are set to do some trackable entertainment at Events!

 

Just what does a $4 guitar sound like?

[+danno68]

Very impressive!

[+bflentje]

That's very cool. I am waiting for someone to bring up you know what..

[+wwbd]

To answer some of the questions...

 

I have never really painted a guitar before to this extent so there was some trial and error and Googling.

 

The $4 guitar (now a $34 Geotar) doesn't sound too bad actually. It stays in tune and has a decent tone. It had a couple of strings on it originally so I was able to quickly determine that the action was decent before deciding to go forward and spend the time and money.

 

I have put a label on a bass headstock before using a waterslide decal kit that people use for model cars and planes, etc. You can use your printer to print on the transparency.

...however since I painted the headstock black I didn't think that would work out very well so I printed out "Geotar" with the font of my choice with a black background and cut it out as close as I could to the white letters. Then I glued it down with Elmers and lacquered over that with a few coats. It actually turned out better than I expected because the glue kind of mottled the white letters a bit.

 

Oh and for no particular reason the first song I played on it was Strawberry Fields Forever.

Edited December 12, 2011 by wwbd

[+wwbd]

That's very cool. I am waiting for someone to bring up you know what..

 

If "you know what" might be a reference to copyright on the logo, this is for my own personal use and not for sale so it falls under the non-commercial use clause here but I guess I did modify it ever so slightly.

Edited December 12, 2011 by wwbd

[+bflentje]

That's very cool. I am waiting for someone to bring up you know what..

 

If "you know what" might be a reference to copyright on the logo, this is for my own personal use and not for sale so it falls under the non-commercial use clause here but I guess I did modify it ever so slightly.

 

Even better!

[+wwbd]

That's very cool. I am waiting for someone to bring up you know what..

 

If "you know what" might be a reference to copyright on the logo, this is for my own personal use and not for sale so it falls under the non-commercial use clause here but I guess I did modify it ever so slightly.

 

Even better!

 

Well now I am intrigued, is this not the "you know what" you were referring to?

[+bflentje]

That's what I was referring to. "Even better" meaning you did your homework so you're good as gold.

[knowschad]

That's what I was referring to. "Even better" meaning you did your homework so you're good as gold.

 

Looks like nobody mentioned it but you, Bart.

[+bflentje]

That's what I was referring to. "Even better" meaning you did your homework so you're good as gold.

 

Looks like nobody mentioned it but you, Bart.

 

I didn't mention it so much as the OP yanked it out of me. I was saving thread angst that would have happened later when someone else would have brought it up in a less than gentle tone.

[Keystone]

That's what I was referring to. "Even better" meaning you did your homework so you're good as gold.

Incorrect. The OP modified the logo, which is not permitted even under the exception for limited personal use:

We are also willing to make allowances for those of you who have creative ideas and want to do something fun for your friends and fellow Geocachers. The Groundspeak Geocaching Logo may be used only on non-commercial items. These items may include, but are not limited to shirts, hats, coins, logbooks, stickers and cache containers. Additionally, the Groundspeak Geocaching logo may not be modified in any way. If the lifetime use of the design is less than 25 units, you may consider permission automatically granted. These items may not, under any circumstance, be sold.

[+bflentje]

Then I retract posts #10 and #12.

[+wwbd]

Further down in the copyright agreement it states:

"The user shall not copy, reverse engineer, translate, port, modify or make derivative works of the Groundspeak Geocaching logos without express written permission from Groundspeak.

All Groundspeak Geocaching logos are to be used "as they appear" and are not to be cut up or resized or altered without express written permission of Groundspeak."

 

I feel my use of the logo is at least being used in the words of the copyright agreement, with good intent and not violating the integrity or being detrimental to Geocaching or exploiting the logo, etc.

 

So with that being said and wanting to be a good geocacher citzen, I have an e-mail out to the folks at Groundspeak to get an official response from them and hopefully get that "express written permission" retroactively and if not...well I dunno maybe I could alter the travel bug at least. I don't see how it's possible to make the guitar (which is technically the copy) compliant without some part of the logo being obscured by part of the guitar.

[+bflentje]

Then I retract posts #10 and #12.

 

I should have placed after my because at the end of the day, I seriously don't have a thought one way or the other. I regret bringing up you-know-what.

[+wwbd]

Then I retract posts #10 and #12.

 

I should have placed after my because at the end of the day, I seriously don't have a thought one way or the other. I regret bringing up you-know-what.

 

I don't blame you. I have a feeling that if I never said I rotated the flag a bit no one would have even noticed. I just want to make sure my trackable keychain is going to be ok as is but if not I have some other ideas. I'd still like to have an official ok if possible no matter what.

[knowschad]

There is a public domain geocaching logo that is pretty widely recognized;

 

http://www.bytethebullet.com/geologo/leatherman_variants.htm

 

[I!]

Incorrect. The OP modified the logo, which is not permitted even under the exception for limited personal use:

...

What about those among us that have set their desktop background to 6×8 = 48 wittily-modified gc.com logos?

[+SwineFlew]

I see plenty of people modifying the logo.

[+SwineFlew]

Everytime I see the word geotar, I think of the word geotard which means...

 

A cacher starts ranting incoherently as if he/she thought their geocaching skills were outstanding is a geotard.

 

Just kidding PEOPLE. Dont take me serious!

[knowschad]

I see plenty of people modifying the logo.

 

I just made a pencil sketch of it.

[+humboldt flier]

Further down in the copyright agreement it states:

"The user shall not copy, reverse engineer, translate, port, modify or make derivative works of the Groundspeak Geocaching logos without express written permission from Groundspeak.

All Groundspeak Geocaching logos are to be used "as they appear" and are not to be cut up or resized or altered without express written permission of Groundspeak."

 

I feel my use of the logo is at least being used in the words of the copyright agreement, with good intent and not violating the integrity or being detrimental to Geocaching or exploiting the logo, etc.

 

So with that being said and wanting to be a good geocacher citzen, I have an e-mail out to the folks at Groundspeak to get an official response from them and hopefully get that "express written permission" retroactively and if not...well I dunno maybe I could alter the travel bug at least. I don't see how it's possible to make the guitar (which is technically the copy) compliant without some part of the logo being obscured by part of the guitar.

 

Hmmmmmmmm,

 

As a has been church organist let me know how the ' Logo Thing " goes with Groundspeak.

 

I may approach the Padre about plastering some paint on the facade pipes of the church pipe organ. I can hear the congregation now LOL, LOL

 

( One Geo-Organ coming up ) 4 manuals 32 ranks ... lacks some portability, however.

[+DontPanic67]

Everytime I see the word geotar, I think of the word geotard which means...

 

A cacher starts ranting incoherently as if he/she thought their geocaching skills were outstanding is a geotard.

 

Just kidding PEOPLE. Dont take me serious!

 

Timmy!

[Mr.Yuck]

There is a public domain geocaching logo that is pretty widely recognized;

 

http://www.bytethebullet.com/geologo/leatherman_variants.htm

 

 

I got a couple acoustic guitars in the closet that haven't been touched in 10 years. Would it really matter if I defaced them? No it wouldn't. I'm gonna slap the puplic domain Geocaching logo on one of them, and start a thread that I have created the world's first public domain Geotar. Unless someone beats me to it. Which you probably will, because I really don't feel like doing that.

[TheDoctorPH]

wow people need to un-bunch their panties. the guy painted up a guitar for fun. hes not selling it. hes not starting a company to mass manufacture them. who cares.

[+Fianccetto]

Further down in the copyright agreement it states:

"The user shall not copy, reverse engineer, translate, port, modify or make derivative works of the Groundspeak Geocaching logos without express written permission from Groundspeak.

All Groundspeak Geocaching logos are to be used "as they appear" and are not to be cut up or resized or altered without express written permission of Groundspeak."

 

I feel my use of the logo is at least being used in the words of the copyright agreement, with good intent and not violating the integrity or being detrimental to Geocaching or exploiting the logo, etc.

 

So with that being said and wanting to be a good geocacher citzen, I have an e-mail out to the folks at Groundspeak to get an official response from them and hopefully get that "express written permission" retroactively and if not...well I dunno maybe I could alter the travel bug at least. I don't see how it's possible to make the guitar (which is technically the copy) compliant without some part of the logo being obscured by part of the guitar.

 

Well hopefully they will see it as the fun project that it is and reply with permission for you to use your guitar in public. It would be a shame to have to hide it away. If your modification was to rotate the flag sightly so it would look right on the guitar, I would guess (hope) that would fall under the acceptable modifications as a one off. It's not like you had modified it to add your initials or geotag or promote yourself in some way.

[Mr.Yuck]

wow people need to un-bunch their panties. the guy painted up a guitar for fun. hes not selling it. hes not starting a company to mass manufacture them. who cares.

 

Well, your post comes right after mine. I hope you're not putting me in the "need to lighten up crowd". How can I put this; if Groundspeak didn't have a history (in my opinion, of course) of being a little overzealous in the area of trademark infringement, then you wouldn't see people in these forums shouting "copywrite violation" every time someone wanted to paint the logo on something in their house. Kind of like the same way any time someone wants to play around with some Geocaching data, the chorus screams "SITE SCRAPING". A term that is so 2003 in this day and age of the open API.

[knowschad]

wow people need to un-bunch their panties. the guy painted up a guitar for fun. hes not selling it. hes not starting a company to mass manufacture them. who cares.

 

Which "people" are you referring to that need to "un-bunch their panties"? The moderator that pointed out that the logo is not to be modified?

[+JeepFreak81]

I feel like Groundspeak is a little bit too sensitive when it comes to this stuff. Who is it hurting?

[knowschad]

I feel like Groundspeak is a little bit too sensitive when it comes to this stuff. Who is it hurting?

 

Its just the legal department in this case, I'd imagine. Probably boilerplate text.

[+wwbd]

I certainly don't feel as if I am exploiting the logo which is what the copyright agreement talks about in other parts and I understand their desire to protect altering that design for others use, commercial or non-commercial. You can go a Google search for "geocaching.com logo" and see all sorts of heavy modifications of the logo being used in different ways. That doesn't excuse my slight modification in a "well everyone is doing it so why can't I" kind of way but, I feel my intentions are good and the clause says you CAN get permission to modify it. It's also possible that some of those other modifications were given the official OK. I know I did it backwards but that it was I am waiting to hear back on.

Edited December 15, 2011 by wwbd

[+wwbd]

ok, so I was just officially denied use of the logo in the way I am using it. They offered suggestions on how to make it acceptable but it would be a lot of work to be honest.

 

I'll use the travel bug number for something else and take the link down to the photo gallery. They didn't ask me to take the link down but I'd rather just do that myself. If a mod wants to remove the picture in my original post they can do that as it looks like I can't edit that post now.

 

As far as the guitar itself, it looks like I'll have a nice little conversation piece.

[+GeoBain]

I feel like Groundspeak is a little bit too sensitive when it comes to this stuff. Who is it hurting?

 

If you do not enforce trademark, you run the risk of losing it.

[+Fianccetto]

ok, so I was just officially denied use of the logo in the way I am using it. They offered suggestions on how to make it acceptable but it would be a lot of work to be honest.

 

I'll use the travel bug number for something else and take the link down to the photo gallery. They didn't ask me to take the link down but I'd rather just do that myself. If a mod wants to remove the picture in my original post they can do that as it looks like I can't edit that post now.

 

As far as the guitar itself, it looks like I'll have a nice little conversation piece.

That's a shame, am sorry to hear that. I'd be interested to know what modifications they suggested to make it acceptable to them, and there might be others who could learn from this.

[+wwbd]

I don't want to post the whole e-mail here but aside from it not saying "geocaching.com" and not having the circle R trademark, and moving the flag which are all doable modifications, the biggest reason cited for denial was that I was not using the entire logo. They suggested that I use the entire logo in one part of the guitar and paint the rest something else. That would really mean starting all over.

 

I'm not a performer so it's not like the guitar would be seen by the general public anyway.

[AZcachemeister]

I wonder if the response would have been the same if Eddie Van Halen or Eric Clapton painted their guitars the same as yours?

[+Mitragorz]

I hope you don't plan on ruining your hard work over this. It's not like they're going to come to your house and ask to see your guitar.

[+wwbd]

I hope you don't plan on ruining your hard work over this. It's not like they're going to come to your house and ask to see your guitar.

 

No, I will keep the guitar as is at least for the foreseeable future but I will use the trackable number for something else.

[AZcachemeister]

I hope you don't plan on ruining your hard work over this. It's not like they're going to come to your house and ask to see your guitar.

 

True.

But they can ban anyone who doesn't play by their rules.

[+Mitragorz]

They CAN... But are they really going to ban the guy for painting his personal guitar? I sure hope not. Besides, who's to say he hasn't already complied with their wishes? And before you say "but he said right here that he didn't!" maybe he's just saying that to save face! He doesn't want us to know that he was intimidated into submission by the man.

 

I'm sure they've already forgotten about it, anyway.

[+wwbd]

I'm still considering ways to make it pleasing to the folks at geocaching.com but it's not going to happen over the next couple of weeks or anything. I may just sand off the top, paint that surface a different color (perhaps white, keep the colors on the sides and display their logo in it's entirety on the front on the large area near the bridge. The time consuming process before was all the masking and drying for all the colors. Based on the e-mail I got that would make it acceptable but I'll run a Photoshop version by them first like they asked.

 

I want to emphasize that the denial response was cordial and friendly as could be and offered suggestions. It was nothing like a cease and desist order or anything like that.

[+wwbd]

I really wanted to have a trackable based on this so I thought about it some more and submitted a picture mockup modification based on their suggestions and recieved the following approval from Groundspeak:

 

This design would receive full permission to use the logo on this guitar. If you use the design submitted with this email you have permission to use the logo as you described. Thank you for working with us on this.

 

Essentially I can keep the colors as is on the sides and back but the top will need to be re-done to comply with the copyright agreement. I'll repost a picture when completed which will likely be after the holidays.

[+Mitragorz]

Great!

[+wwbd]

this one will be better anyway. i think I'm going to do a compass rose design around the sound hole. Public domain of course! ;-)

[+Alkhalikoi]

Since IAAL, I'd note that this is a trademark issue, not a copyright one. Trademarks can get weakened over time if one doesn't defend them and to the extent you are using a trackable subject to their license, I'm sure that license says something about not altering the mark. There's nothing to stop you from drawing a picture of a modified geocaching logo for private purposes or even, under many circumstances, for parody purposes. But using this in connection with their TB, you've agreed not to alter the mark. Now, Groundspeak doesn't *need* to include that language, but once they do they need to be pretty consistent about it or it weakens the mark.

[+GeoBain]

Since IAAL, I'd note that this is a trademark issue, not a copyright one. Trademarks can get weakened over time if one doesn't defend them and to the extent you are using a trackable subject to their license, I'm sure that license says something about not altering the mark. There's nothing to stop you from drawing a picture of a modified geocaching logo for private purposes or even, under many circumstances, for parody purposes. But using this in connection with their TB, you've agreed not to alter the mark. Now, Groundspeak doesn't *need* to include that language, but once they do they need to be pretty consistent about it or it weakens the mark.

 

+1

[TheDoctorPH]

just to be clear i wasn't speaking of anyone in this thread so much as i was speaking of the people that everyone in this thread seemed to be speaking of. the people who would flip out about this (which none seem to have shown up here).

 

and in hindsight i see the point. sometimes you have to defend a trademark when its unnecessary just so you can justify doing it when it is. the same thing is going on right now with a couple video game companies i'm a fan of.

[knowschad]

just to be clear i wasn't speaking of anyone in this thread so much as i was speaking of the people that everyone in this thread seemed to be speaking of. the people who would flip out about this (which none seem to have shown up here).

The Groundspeak law staff? They never show up here directly, at least.

[+Fianccetto]

Since IAAL, I'd note that this is a trademark issue, not a copyright one. Trademarks can get weakened over time if one doesn't defend them and to the extent you are using a trackable subject to their license, I'm sure that license says something about not altering the mark. There's nothing to stop you from drawing a picture of a modified geocaching logo for private purposes or even, under many circumstances, for parody purposes. But using this in connection with their TB, you've agreed not to alter the mark. Now, Groundspeak doesn't *need* to include that language, but once they do they need to be pretty consistent about it or it weakens the mark.

 

+1

 

Oh, I missed that aspect of it, thanks for pointing it out.