acused me of stealing

[JoshuaComber]

some one acused me of taking his cash but i said i put it back where i found it and my log was deleted and i cant relog it what can i do ???

[JoshuaComber]

im not new i find cashes with my uncle i know what to do

[+niraD]

From the Help Center article Log Deletion: "If you are a geocacher and you believe that your log was deleted in error, you will have politely emailed the cache owner requesting that the log be reinstated. If you require further assistance, please email contact@geocaching.com."

[+Mitragorz]

Just some helpful advice: You'll probably get better results with proper spelling, grammar, punctuation, etc...

 

EDIT: Just noticed niraD's sig

Edited October 22, 2012 by Mitragorz

[+stijnhommes]

You can ask Groundspeak to reinstate the log.

[+captainnemo70]

Seems a little dumb to assume the last person to log a cache trashed it, surely theyd stay anonymous and just not log the find

[+NanCycle]

some one acused me of taking his cash but i said i put it back where i found it and my log was deleted and i cant relog it what can i do ???

 

I don't understand why you say you can't relog it. Have you tried, and it was deleted again? As was mentioned before, you can ask Groundspeak to reinstate your log and lock it so it can't be deleted.

[JoshuaComber]

Just some helpful advice: You'll probably get better results with proper spelling, grammar, punctuation, etc...

 

EDIT: Just noticed niraD's sig

 

sorry

[JoshuaComber]

some one acused me of taking his cash but i said i put it back where i found it and my log was deleted and i cant relog it what can i do ???

 

I don't understand why you say you can't relog it. Have you tried, and it was deleted again? As was mentioned before, you can ask Groundspeak to reinstate your log and lock it so it can't be deleted.

 

Its a premum cashe now and I dont relly care about the log. I DONT LIKE SOMEONE SAYING IM STEALING WHEN IM NOT !!!

 

You took my geocache called Fishing Hole. You did not replace it. You took it home. It is not in the original hiding spot and is now missing. I want my geocache back. Please give me my geocache back. What you did is unacceptable and not at all how to geocache. You NEVER, EVER remove a geocache.

 

Hi JoshuaComber,

I am one of the volunteer reviewers for NJ from geocaching.com and in receipt of an e-mail from a fellow cacher. You recently removed a geocache from its hiding place (per your log entry) and, as of yet, have not returned it.

Please see that it is returned to its hiding spot as soon as possible. For future reference, caches are not to be removed; if you would like to show them to someone, ask that person to accompany you to the hide. You never know...you might even get them interested in geocaching!

Thanks.

 

I put it back where i found it and said so in the log. My dad and my uncle are RELLY MAD over this now.

[+niraD]

FWIW, basic members can log PMO caches. See this thread:

backdoor to log premium caches?

 

For some reason, both the cache owner and the volunteer reviewer thought that you had removed the geocache, based on your log. If you repost your log, then it's probably a good idea to get someone else to read it first (perhaps your dad or your uncle) to make sure you're saying what you want to say in a way that others won't misunderstand.

[+dprovan]

Its a premum cashe now and I dont relly care about the log. I DONT LIKE SOMEONE SAYING IM STEALING WHEN IM NOT !!!

 

You took my geocache called Fishing Hole. You did not replace it. You took it home. It is not in the original hiding spot and is now missing. I want my geocache back. Please give me my geocache back. What you did is unacceptable and not at all how to geocache. You NEVER, EVER remove a geocache.

He isn't accusing you of stealing his cache. He's reacting to what he (and the reviewer) thought was you telling everyone you stole his cache in your log. Take a deep breath and repost a log that's won't be misinterpreted. Recognize that he's been having trouble with this cache, and he thought he found a nice safe place for it just before you visited it. Try to give him some slack even if you think he's was wrong to jump to that conclusion.

 

It is suspicious that the cache disappeared just after you found it, so you might also want to think about what you might have done unintentionally to compromise the cache. Even though you're not a thief, you might still have something to apologize for if you consider the possibility.

[+NanCycle]

You took my geocache called Fishing Hole. You did not replace it. You took it home. It is not in the original hiding spot and is now missing. I want my geocache back. Please give me my geocache back. What you did is unacceptable and not at all how to geocache. You NEVER, EVER remove a geocache.

 

Hi JoshuaComber,

I am one of the volunteer reviewers for NJ from geocaching.com and in receipt of an e-mail from a fellow cacher. You recently removed a geocache from its hiding place (per your log entry) and, as of yet, have not returned it.

Please see that it is returned to its hiding spot as soon as possible. For future reference, caches are not to be removed; if you would like to show them to someone, ask that person to accompany you to the hide. You never know...you might even get them interested in geocaching!

Thanks.

 

I put it back where i found it and said so in the log. My dad and my uncle are RELLY MAD over this now.

 

Do you want to tell us exactly what you wrote in your log that the cache owner and the volunteer reviewer both interpreted as meaning that you took the cache? (The log would be quoted in the deletion notice email that you received.)

 

It wasn't too hard to figure out which cache is in question here. http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=4ab8517a-b1fb-4f2b-82d1-7977371833eb

Edited October 23, 2012 by NanCycle

[+uxorious]

It would be interesting to see the origional log, what you said that caused the CO, and the reviewer to assume you took it.

 

However, the CO owner was way out of line with his post using your name.

 

A new cacher named JoshuaComber removed the cache, took it home and never returned it. This is of course very frustrating.

 

If it was me, and the cache owner misunderstood something I had wrote, then named me in his log, I would be upset.

[+briansnat]

You mentioned in your log that you took the cache home. You should never do that. While you have the cache someone else may be looking for it and it isn't fair to that person. Even if it's only for a half hour, you never know when someone else is going to come by and look for the cache. You also stated that you eventually replaced the cache. It may have been unfortunate timing and someone else took it right after you returned it, perhaps you didn't return it to the exact hiding place, or perhaps the cache owner saw your log and went right out to check on it before you had a chance to return it.

 

Considering this, I'm sure you can understand why the cache owner and reviewer may have thought you took the cache. Don't take it personally but also remember not to take caches even if only for a little while.

[+Huntleigh]

It would be interesting to see the origional log, what you said that caused the CO, and the reviewer to assume you took it.

 

However, the CO owner was way out of line with his post using your name.

 

A new cacher named JoshuaComber removed the cache, took it home and never returned it. This is of course very frustrating.

 

If it was me, and the cache owner misunderstood something I had wrote, then named me in his log, I would be upset.

 

The poor old CO seems to get a hard time, he is even responsible for the weather!

 

Check this DNF log from June:

 

This was THE MOST UNPLEASANT EXPERIENCE OF MY LIFE! Me and my Father Walked Into The Wooded area where this cache is hidden thinking it would be an easy find, but an easy find it was not! The over growth combined with the extreme heat made this an unbearable situation! after nearly an hour of fruitless searching my father and i made a hasty retreat to our car before we would become dehydrated. Over all a not Very fun Geocache. Please Fix This!!

[+Harry Dolphin]

I should probably stay out of this, but there are some cache owners who respond in unexpected ways to some logs. But since you say that you returned the cache, your log should be acceptable. Try relogging it. Probably with TFTC, or somethng that cannot be taken the wrong way. I've seen logs where the finder held it for several hours, due to muggles, and they have not had any repercussions.

[+jellis]

You took my geocache called Fishing Hole. You did not replace it. You took it home. It is not in the original hiding spot and is now missing. I want my geocache back. Please give me my geocache back. What you did is unacceptable and not at all how to geocache. You NEVER, EVER remove a geocache.

 

Hi JoshuaComber,

I am one of the volunteer reviewers for NJ from geocaching.com and in receipt of an e-mail from a fellow cacher. You recently removed a geocache from its hiding place (per your log entry) and, as of yet, have not returned it.

Please see that it is returned to its hiding spot as soon as possible. For future reference, caches are not to be removed; if you would like to show them to someone, ask that person to accompany you to the hide. You never know...you might even get them interested in geocaching!

Thanks.

 

I put it back where i found it and said so in the log. My dad and my uncle are RELLY MAD over this now.

 

Do you want to tell us exactly what you wrote in your log that the cache owner and the volunteer reviewer both interpreted as meaning that you took the cache? (The log would be quoted in the deletion notice email that you received.)

 

It wasn't too hard to figure out which cache is in question here. http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=4ab8517a-b1fb-4f2b-82d1-7977371833eb

I think it rude for the CO to name the cacher. It gives them a bad reputation especially when the CO doesn't know for a fact the cacher didn't return it.

Edited October 25, 2012 by jellis

[+dprovan]

I think it rude for the CO to name the cacher. It gives them a bad reputation especially when the CO doesn't know for a fact the cacher didn't return it.

It's only rude because he deleted the log he was referring to. Deleting the log was pretty rude to begin with, but the kicker is slamming the cacher based entirely on the contents of the log without the log being there to defend itself...or support the slam.

[+Math Teacher]

I am the owner of this cache. The cacher removed the cache as stated in his log. He brought the cache home, showed his father and allegedly returned it to the original hiding spot. I immediately walked over to the site and saw the cache was in fact not returned as stated in the log. I was frustrated because I spent some time and money to get this cache back in action and a new cacher who did not bother to take the time to read about the game felt obliged to leave the site with a geocache that was not his. He may have returned the cache but it was not where he originally found it, that much is for sure. As my cache was taken admittedly by this cacher, I felt obliged to delete his log and change the cache to a premium cache so he will not have an opportunity to muggle it twice.

 

To make matters worse, another cacher went out there as well before I had a chance to disable the cache and wasted a whole mess of time. This is completely unacceptable. The cacher was never slammed. I merely took action based on his own admissions. Publicly, I did not criticize or bad mouth this cacher, I merely went with the facts as presented by the cacher. So, to recap, there is no physical log. There is no physical cache. How can there be a virtual log? There cannot be so it was deleted.

 

If the cacher wants to log this cache, he can return what he took or pay me for what the cache cost to put together. Once he returns what is not his, he can sign the log and I will be more than happy to let him log the cache. I do not see how I can be any fairer.

Edited October 26, 2012 by Math Teacher

[7rxc]

Funny how you accept that he said he took it home completely, but don't accept that he put it back as found at all.

 

Think it would be best to calm down (both sides) and have a meet with him and his father and have him SHOW you where he found and put it back. I know for sure that caches migrate considerably in the hands of cachers, critters and even weather events.

 

Both of you might be correct about your parts in this, but not even close in reality... and through no fault of your own.

 

As for PM status, when found anyone registered can log a PM. And ANY one can determine the coordinates too (except for multis and puzzles which require seeing the page itself for information). I've even got an FTF on a puzzle multi stage. All PMOC status does is block the viewing of the cache page.

 

Also puzzled as to why you say the cache and log 'isn't there' in your comments. As often pointed out to newbies... just because you can't find it doesn't mean it's not there. I look after some that always seem to move away on their own... I hate to tell you how many times I've hunted down one of them... and replaced it a few times too!

 

Doug 7rxc

[+dprovan]

Hi, Math Teacher! I'm glad you could join the party.

 

First of all, yes, it's clear that the OP made a hideous mistake, and I don't blame you for being angry. You are completely justified in blasting him for taking the cache, and you're almost certainly correct that it's lost now because he didn't return it to where it is supposed to be.

 

Having said that, here are the problems I have with your reaction:

 

1. You deleted a perfectly valid found log because you were angry with the cacher. Even though your anger was justified, even though he ruined your cache, that's still an unjustified abuse of your power as CO.

 

2. You definitely slammed him: you accused him of stealing your cache. It's right there in the logs for everyone to see. The fact that he volunteered that he stole your cache is not in the log for all to see. You see yourself as echoing his admission (as I myself explained to him earlier in this thread), but in fact what's in the public record is an out-of-the-blue labeling a specific cacher as a thief. No evidence. In fact, no justification of any kind. Just a slam.

 

3. And you did it publicly. Instead of taking it up with him personally, you put him in a pillory for all to ridicule.

 

Yeah, the kid made a terrible mistake. He doesn't recognize how terrible his mistake was, he doesn't understand the consequences of his mistake, and he's not the slightest bit remorseful. But you could handle it better, just the same.

[+irisisleuk]

I followed this thread but didn't post in it, since the post is started by someone who irritated me, simply by the choice of words. First because of the title "accused me of stealing" and then because geocaching is nowadays "cashing".

And somehow discussions always turn out "oh it's a beginner, he doesn't know any better, give him some slack".

 

First this beginner (a minor who's posts on a forum should be under supervision of a parent), starts to state that he is accused of stealing, and his only problem is that he can't log his found.

Then he claims that he is no beginner, he knows what he's doing, since he goes "cashing" with his uncle.

 

It's clear he's convinced the only one that made a mistake is the CO.

And because it's clear to the posters in this topic that, in contrary to what the topic starter said himself, he is a beginner and therefore we all should look into this matter and see what the CO did wrong?

 

It's wrong to say on a cache page as a CO that a specific "casher" took his cache, even though that is a fact?

 

Mmm, if that is sooo wrong, how wrong is it then to research the situation and find the specific cache and then talk about the CO and what he did wrong, without even notifying him of this topic and asking him if he can give some clarity, since it is clear that this "casher" is not going to?!

I don't like people to talk behind my back on a forum, and I assume others don't like that either so I notified the CO about this topic.

 

The topic starter accused the CO that he accused him of stealing. The CO NEVER used the word stealing, those harsh words were only used by the topic starter. It immediately colors what actually happened, which results in others getting interested in discussing it, as if the CO really accused him of stealing.

 

I agree to give some slack to beginners, but I disagree that you have to treat them like porcelain dolls. Especially those who post on a forum with topic titles like this and who don't seek any fault with themselves and actually claim not to be a beginner, although it's clear he is. Simply by taking a cache home, it's clear he does not understand the game and he didn't come here to ask whether he did something wrong did he?!

 

In response to the last poster (who also said a lot of things I really liked):

 

"1. You deleted a perfectly valid found log"

I disagree, there is no valid found log. The CO went to his cache to check if there was a log and there wasn't. Just the fact that this person states that he put the cache back, isn't proof that he actually did. There is no way of checking it now and just because this person who didn't follow the rules says he put it back he should be rewared with a found log? I'm sure he took the cache home. And I'm sure his father told him to put the cache back. I'm not sure he signed the log, and I'm definitely not sure he did what his father told him to do. Just because he said he put it back...it's a kid... really think so? And yes there a cachers that misplace a cache, often when they geocache in a group where one is finding it and another one is putting it back. But I don't think this is a situation of misplacement. And IF the cache was placed back, maybe that the kid just put it somewhere near there, in a very wide range, but just to oblige to what his father told him to, clearly not to make sure other cachers or even the CO could find it.

 

"2. You definitely slammed him: you accused him of stealing your cache."

It would be slam if he used the word stealing, but he didn't he just copied the words from the cacher and the only person that used the word stealing is the casher, the topic starter.

I agree it would have saved a lot of discussion here if he would have placed a maintaince log that said "I had to replace the cache because after this log my cache was gone" and then an exact copy of this log. But I can understand that the CO thought his sentence was clear enough, he didn't want to spend too many words on his frustration, which is very nice I think. I had similar situations where I had to count till one thousand before posting a maintenance note and then had to deal with the fact that you can't post what you really like to say, you have to be polite and try to keep it fun for yourself and others. PLEASE do not always attack COs, it's soooo easy, just because you can't read (all) their frustration on a cache page, doesn't mean there isn't!

 

"3. And you did it publicly. Instead of taking it up with him personally, you put him in a pillory for all to ridicule."

Just by mentioning his name he is a pillory for all to ridicule? I disagree, he became a pillory to ridicule when he posted this topic. The simple statement in a maintenance note (it's not in Bold font type in the cache page!!!) is really considered as something not done? The CO should post a note as if nothing as happened, that he "just" replaced a cache?

Personally I'm fine with this, because if my cache was near his and I had the same problem the next week, it would save me from doing research on what happened and would put it on "temporary not available" rightaway so other cachers won't have the same problem another cacher in this situation had (searching something that wasn't there, but at somebody's home).

 

And the advice that really annoys me "have a meet with him and his father and have him SHOW you where he found and put it back.". Now the CO has to take all the actions after his cache being taken and being accused on this forum?

A kid took his cache, neither the kid nor his father took the time to apologize for this; not in a log not in an e-mail. I'm not a parent, but I sincerely hope that geocaching parents will e-mail an owner when their kid does something wrong. Kids (and adults) do stupid things, which is fine as long as the responsible parent explains and apologies and helps afterwards to correct a mistake. But in this case that didn't happen. Both, since the kid can't post here without consent of his fater, rather post a topic here instead of contacting the CO!

 

I think Math Teacher is very polite and very patient and I really appreciate he decided to replace the cache and stay positive. Especially since the next cacher seems to feel the need to spend half the log on the fact that the new cache is empty, as if that's the CO's fault. And that's even with the note explaining what happened (and discussed here) before this find! No, this CO kept a positive attitude and even spent his time helping the next cacher to make this cache a milestone to remember.

 

I wish there was more respect towards CO's. They have to deal with a lot more than is visible on cache pages. And they definitely deserve more sympathy than a beginner "casher"!

[+Math Teacher]

I appreciate everyone's comments, both positive and negative; I fully understand these posts are supposed to be constructive and I take it as such. One thing I forgot to mention is I immediately e-mailed the cacher based on the narrative in his log. I received no response. After several days, I e-mailed him again and no reply. This is when I decided to vacate his find. So, I did attempt to resolve the problem privately, twice. Only when I could not get a response (and I believe I was patient) did I then take action.

[+kunarion]

"1. You deleted a perfectly valid found log"

I disagree, there is no valid found log. The CO went to his cache to check if there was a log and there wasn't. Just the fact that this person states that he put the cache back, isn't proof that he actually did. There is no way of checking it now and just because this person who didn't follow the rules says he put it back he should be rewared with a found log? I'm sure he took the cache home.

Even the CO is sure he took the cache home. There's no doubt. The "Found It" log is legitimate, and the finder (or the CO) could ask GC to restore that log.

 

I'd also of course suggest leaving the container in place. Never "take it home", take a picture and take that home instead.

Edited October 26, 2012 by kunarion

[+irisisleuk]

"1. You deleted a perfectly valid found log"

I disagree, there is no valid found log. The CO went to his cache to check if there was a log and there wasn't. Just the fact that this person states that he put the cache back, isn't proof that he actually did. There is no way of checking it now and just because this person who didn't follow the rules says he put it back he should be rewared with a found log? I'm sure he took the cache home.

Even the CO is sure he took the cache home. There's no doubt. The "Found It" log is legitimate, and the finder (or the CO) could ask GC to restore that log.

 

I'd also of course suggest leaving the container in place. Never "take it home", take a picture and take that home instead.

 

Having found the cache doesn't make a log legitimate, signing the logbook makes it legitimate.

There are lots of caches you can find (see, touch, hold) but a log isn't legitimate until the log book is signed.

If the cache is high in a tree you can find it, but not be able log it.

If the cache is inside some puzzle box you can hold it, but not be able log it.

If you take the cache home, which you never should!, you can show it to your daddy, but still can forget to log it (and put it back where it should have been).

Maybe he took it home because he had no pen, so he was not able to log it! Who knows?

[+kunarion]

"1. You deleted a perfectly valid found log"

I disagree, there is no valid found log. The CO went to his cache to check if there was a log and there wasn't. Just the fact that this person states that he put the cache back, isn't proof that he actually did. There is no way of checking it now and just because this person who didn't follow the rules says he put it back he should be rewared with a found log? I'm sure he took the cache home.

Even the CO is sure he took the cache home. There's no doubt. The "Found It" log is legitimate, and the finder (or the CO) could ask GC to restore that log.

 

I'd also of course suggest leaving the container in place. Never "take it home", take a picture and take that home instead.

 

Having found the cache doesn't make a log legitimate, signing the logbook makes it legitimate.

There are lots of caches you can find (see, touch, hold) but a log isn't legitimate until the log book is signed.

That would be OK. I didn't know the finder had not signed the log. But the container was not high in a tree (it was in the cacher's hands, he took it home). It was not inside a puzzle box. And if he took it home to get a pen, he likely used the pen, so it would make sense that the log was signed. According to the story, the online log was deleted as punishment for "taking" and not putting the container back properly. This new info shines a little light on the subject.

Edited October 26, 2012 by kunarion

[+hzoi]

Not entirely sure what's going on with this cache given the very different versions of facts. But hypothetically speaking, if someone were to take one of our caches home and didn't put it back after being asked to do so, their "found it" log's going to get continually deleted whether they signed the logbook or not and no matter how many people took their side in the forums.

 

Even taking the facts in the best light towards the OP, while it may not technically be larceny (wrongfully taking something with the intent to permanently deprive the owner of possession), it is at least wrongful appropriation (wrongfully taking something with the intent to temporarily deprive the owner of possession). Most jurisdictions don't bother parsing out this distinction and just go with wrongful acquisition of another's property = theft, regardless of how long the taker kept it.

[+luvvinbird]

Although GS's Geocaching 101 has an excellent FAQ data base, I wonder if it might be a good idea to have a section dedicated to our younger cachers. Larger, bolder fonts and a few, clear bullet points outlining do's and dont's may help prevent what happened here. Not every parent provides the guidance kids need (for a lot of things) and a mom or dad looking at junior's geocache he found might simply say, "That's nice, dear".

[+kunarion]

Most jurisdictions don't bother parsing out this distinction and just go with wrongful acquisition of another's property = theft, regardless of how long the taker kept it.

Even so, most jurisdictions don't delete the "Found It" log.

 

Both the CO and finder insist the cacher found it. If you're gonna accuse someone by name, of finding your cache, by definition you must leave the Found It log in place.

 

And, yes, both sides of the story stink to high heaven.

Edited October 26, 2012 by kunarion

[+Math Teacher]

I cannot fathom what the debate is about. My cache was taken. I checked on it the moment I read the log. The cache was not there. The cacher publicly admitted to removing the cache. The cacher was contacted twice with no reply. I rechecked. There was still no cache, hence no log book. The log was deleted and suddenly the cacher decided to write to me. What an amazing coincidence! There is nothing punitive about deleting the log. Return the cache, let me see the log book, and you can log the cache a hundred times for all I care. Really people, it's not that deep. I cannot see how there are sides to take. For someone to say both stories are suspicious is quite irritating. There is no contradiction except for one point only: the cacher says the cache was replaced. The cache is not at the original spot. Perhaps it was replaced but where? It is a pretty big forrest back there. Would it not make sense for the cacher to return to where he put it and then put it back where it originally was? Why is this so complicated. Seriously, can we just move on?

[+irisisleuk]

I find it amazing that after my post kunarion's only interest is if the log is valid because the "casher" found the cache, everything else seems not important.

 

The log is not valid, because he didn't log his find in the log book.

The casher said he found the cache, he said he took it home, he said he put it back. He didn't say he signed the logbook!

So IF you decide this "casher" is a sincere trust worthy reable geocacher just by stating "the kid said he found the cache so he must have found it" and "the kid said he put it back so he put it back". If the truth now should only be determined based on what someone has said (since checking the logbook is made impossible by this cacher), then there is at least the lack of someone saying that he signed the log, 'cause he didn't say so.

 

So please topic starter, why don't you follow up on this thread and give us some explanation on why you took the cache home with you. Did you do so because you couldn't log it because you had no pen? Or did you because the container had a child proof lid and you needed a parent to open it? Not that I care, but kunarion seems to think that if you signed the log, then it is a valid log, but we don't know now!

And another question we all like to get answered: where did you leave the cache?! We all would love to see your log in the logbook, so please make a photo and post it here!

 

I wonder what would happen if I would log a cache of kunarion and then throw the cache in the river and simply say in the log: I logged the cache and then I threw it in the river because I don't need it anymore....

What would the next topic title on this forum be and who would start it?

 

If a discussion like this turns against a CO, in this case it even ends up in that there a "two sides" in this matter, who are we kidding then? The discussion should not at all be about whether this "casher" has signed the paper, the discussion should be "what were you thinking and how did you correct your mistake dear beginner?!" The rule "the log is signed so it is a find" is not more important than all the other rules/guidelines.

Or should we ask Groundspeak to change the rules into "a log is only valid if it's signed at the coordinates of the cache" ?, I hope you get my sarcasm on this last question...

 

If there is no respect towards cache owners, soon there won't be any good cache left to take home anymore.[]

[+T.D.M.22]

How do you know he stole the cache? did you follow him from the cache to his house? I don't think so. He is new. Maybe he didn't realize someone was watching him put it back and that person then took it not knowing what it was. You do not know for a fact that he stole the log. Plus are you sure when you sent the message that you sent your email with it? if you did then you have every right to be mad at him but if not-or if there was a mistake then you can't be mad for him not replying. But I believe the point is he did in fact find the cache so he should have his found it log. at least that's what it started out as.

[+irisisleuk]

@T.D.M: if we don't know that he took the cache, then we also don't know that he found the cache. Both "facts" are only based on what this "casher" has written in his log on internet.

 

As long as the topic starter doesn't explain here what he logged, and what he meant with his log, and more important: what he did with the cache and where the cache is now, we will never know.

 

But unfortunately he doesn't supply this info to the CO, let alone to us.

The only information he gave us was: I'm not allowed by the CO to log my cache, please forum visitors tell me how I can log it anyway.

 

Why don't we just wait a couple of days to give the topic starter some time to refind this cache, make things right with the CO and then explain here what really happened? Don't you think it is time for the topic starter to answer some questions here, instead of anyone else trying to think of what is going in this person's head and what might have happened?

[+dprovan]

There is nothing punitive about deleting the log.

You say there's nothing punitive, and I believe you, but, nevertheless, your actions are exactly the same as someone that wanted to punish the OP for taking his cache. You definitively and beyond any doubt think he found your cache, so the one thing that makes no sense is to change the history to say he didn't.

 

Not entirely sure what's going on with this cache given the very different versions of facts. But hypothetically speaking, if someone were to take one of our caches home and didn't put it back after being asked to do so, their "found it" log's going to get continually deleted whether they signed the logbook or not and no matter how many people took their side in the forums.

Would you also delete any finds he's logged on your other caches? I would say that follows from your logic since there's as much justification for deleting his other Found logs as there is for deleting this one Found it log (i.e., there's no justification whatsoever).

 

I honestly don't know how you're going to answer that question, but COs would answer "yes" are what causes nasty feuds and other widespread unpleasantness that I've heard about.

[+hukilaulau]

why is this in the 'getting started" forum?

[+Sapience Trek]

Moved from getting started forum here.

[+Math Teacher]

As soon as my cache is put back and I can verify the log he can post a log if he is still interested.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

There is no contradiction except for one point only: the cacher says the cache was replaced. The cache is not at the original spot. Perhaps it was replaced but where? It is a pretty big forrest back there. Would it not make sense for the cacher to return to where he put it and then put it back where it originally was? Why is this so complicated.

 

We'll there is the possibility that the cacher found the cache at a location, then returned it to that location, but the spot was not the same as the original location. Caches do migrate and it wouldn't be the first time a CO went out to find their cache and couldn't because over the course of time a few finders "re-hid" the cache in a slightly different spot.

[+Math Teacher]

Not possible. Trust me. I tore that area apart, at least 25 feet in every direction, looking in ALL possible locations. I also had two other experienced cachers with me at two different times searching. The original location is pretty obvious and really, it is the only place it could have been hidden without being easily detected. It ain't there.

[+Mudfrog]

As a cache owner, i would NOT have deleted the log. It would have gave an indication of what happened and may have helped with the CO's case.

 

Not that it matters what us other non involved cachers think,,, I'm pretty sure there wouldn't be so many giving the CO such a hard time, if the log did indeed state what he says it did. On that same note, it doesn't sound like the finder was out to steal the cache. If anything, it sounds like some geocaching etiquette 101 may be in order.

[+ChileHead]

Not possible. Trust me. I tore that area apart, at least 25 feet in every direction, looking in ALL possible locations. I also had two other experienced cachers with me at two different times searching. The original location is pretty obvious and really, it is the only place it could have been hidden without being easily detected. It ain't there.

 

It's also possible that they returned it to the original spot, but somebody saw them do that or they didn't cover it well and a muggle took it out. Taking it home in the first place, even temporarily, was obviously the wrong thing to do. If they really wanted to take it for some reason, they wouldn't admit to doing so in the log - they would just take it silently. It reads to me that they really did return it, and it went missing.

[GrandPotentate]

IT'S JUST A GAME!!! As cache owner, I fully expect to have some of my cache muggled, damaged, moved, swag stolen, and even stolen by other geocachers. Crappy things happen! If I have to replace a missing cache, I would never dream of asking the offender to repay me for the replacement (even if he were to bring me the shattered remains of my most prized geocache GC3XYCX) I understand the being a cache owner means I am accepting responsibility for maintaining my caches. If it is that much of a financial burden, archive the cache and move on.

 

Also, the CO could have handled the initial interaction much better. If you suspected that the cache was missing, disable it right away, or at least log a note mentioning you suspect that it might be missing. Next, after searching the area for the missing cache, contact the previous finder and politely ask if it is possible that they re-hid the cache in a different location. And finally after everything is settled, you could have invited the new cacher to the next local event where he would be able to learn more about geocaching.

 

Once again, IT'S JUST A GAME!!! If you aren't having fun as a cache owner having to replace missing caches or as a cacher looking for missing caches, you might want to get out of the GAME and find something else a little bit more fun.

 

Happy Hunting!!!

[Keystone]

Do you want to tell us exactly what you wrote in your log that the cache owner and the volunteer reviewer both interpreted as meaning that you took the cache?

It would be interesting to see the origional log, what you said that caused the CO, and the reviewer to assume you took it.

As long as the topic starter doesn't explain here what he logged, and what he meant with his log, and more important: what he did with the cache and where the cache is now, we will never know.

Here is the complete text of the deleted log:

it took us a long time to find the box but it was relly cool i took it home to show my dad and put it back

[+Math Teacher]

Is anyone actually reading this thread? I am reading the most ridiculous replies. Okay, one last time for the band wagon jumpers:

1. He was NEVER called a thief

2. He Publicly ADMITTED he removed the cacher and took it home. This is a FACT. It is NOT in dispute.

3. I immediately deactivated the cache

4. The situation WAS handled privately. Let me say it again. The situation was handled privately.

5. The finder was emailed TWICE. Repeating: He was emailed twice.

6. He REFUSED to write back.

7. He only wrote back when his log was deleted.

 

Enough, please. :0(

[+The Jester]

The log is not valid, because he didn't log his find in the log book.

The casher said he found the cache, he said he took it home, he said he put it back. He didn't say he signed the logbook!

Huh?!? If not stating that the log was signed is cause to delete logs we all are in trouble. I seldom state that the log was signed, even your last log doesn't state you signed the logbook - does that mean they should all be deleted?

[Trinity's Crew]

Is anyone actually reading this thread? I am reading the most ridiculous replies. Okay, one last time for the band wagon jumpers:

1. He was NEVER called a thief

2. He Publicly ADMITTED he removed the cacher and took it home. This is a FACT. It is NOT in dispute.

3. I immediately deactivated the cache

4. The situation WAS handled privately. Let me say it again. The situation was handled privately.

5. The finder was emailed TWICE. Repeating: He was emailed twice.

6. He REFUSED to write back.

7. He only wrote back when his log was deleted.

 

Enough, please. :0(

As someone already said, you take him at his word that he took it home but refuse to believe he brought it back. It would appear that you are dealing with a child or a 'tween here. It is entirely possible he was observered returning it and it was taken within minutes of its return.

 

You assume he logged it immediatley after returning it. I doubt that. And as someone else already pointed out, if he took it why would he log it that way? I think you are off base on this. Just my humble opinion.

[+fizzymagic]

Really people, it's not that deep. I cannot see how there are sides to take.

 

Agreed. I would do exactly as you have done. If you cannot verify a find by the logbook, it can (and should) be deleted.

 

The solution is simple: kid shows you the cache, with his signature in the logbook, you allow a find.

 

All the rest is just forum nonsense.

[+tozainamboku]

"1. You deleted a perfectly valid found log"

I disagree, there is no valid found log. The CO went to his cache to check if there was a log and there wasn't. Just the fact that this person states that he put the cache back, isn't proof that he actually did. There is no way of checking it now and just because this person who didn't follow the rules says he put it back he should be rewared with a found log? I'm sure he took the cache home. And I'm sure his father told him to put the cache back. I'm not sure he signed the log, and I'm definitely not sure he did what his father told him to do. Just because he said he put it back...it's a kid... really think so? And yes there a cachers that misplace a cache, often when they geocache in a group where one is finding it and another one is putting it back. But I don't think this is a situation of misplacement. And IF the cache was placed back, maybe that the kid just put it somewhere near there, in a very wide range, but just to oblige to what his father told him to, clearly not to make sure other cachers or even the CO could find it.

This is perfect puritan logic. The owner can't find the cache so there is not way to check that kid signed the log. Therefore the find is illegitimate.

 

First of all, while a cache owner can check the physical log on to determine that an online log is bogus, and perhaps can even treat the signature in the physical log a requirement for logging online, I don't think the intent is that when a cache goes missing the owner can delete the last found log because "there is no way of checking".

 

Caches go missing all the time. Cache migration happens when someone put the cache back in a slightly different place or hidden in a slightly different manner. Cache owners often cannot find their own caches.

 

I would agree that just because the the OP says he returned the caches doesn't mean he did. But it is also true that just because the CO can't find the cache doesn't mean that that the OP didn't put it back.

 

The CO (and most everyone else) agrees that the OP found the cache. They believe what he wrote in is his log when he says he took it home to show his father. But they doubt the claim in the same log that he put it back.

 

Can the CO delete a find log in this case? Perhaps TPTB will take the attitude that geocaching depends on cachers replacing the caches where they found them as soon as they are done signing the log and making trades. They may decide that taking a cache home is not permitted. However I doubt very much this will become a rule. I have taken other peoples caches home for several reasons: most often when a muggle prevented me from returning the cache to where I found it immediately. I either replaced the cache within a day or let the cache owner know I had it. Of course TPTB might still decide that cache owners have the right to delete find logs if they don't like the reason someone gave for taking the cache.

 

What we seem to have here is a cache owner who may have put a lot of money and effort in constructing a special cache. He is upset that the cache has gone missing and he has an easy target in a child who took the cache home to show his father. I'm not sure I buy into the idea of deleting someone's log because you blame them for the loss of your cache. I know I have a few finds where I wrote "Sorry but as I was putting your cache back it fell in the (fence post, sewer grate, off the edge of the cliff)" None of those cache owners deleted my log - though I probably would have understood if they did. My personal feeling is that I would let the find stand here. I might (if I were a teacher like the CO) look at how this could be a learning experience for the OP. He needs to learn that caches are someone's property and that he needs to respect other people's property and the game and not take caches home just to show his dad. I just don't feel that deleting his log is the way to do this.

[Trinity's Crew]

Really people, it's not that deep. I cannot see how there are sides to take.

 

Agreed. I would do exactly as you have done. If you cannot verify a find by the logbook, it can (and should) be deleted.

 

The solution is simple: kid shows you the cache, with his signature in the logbook, you allow a find.

 

All the rest is just forum nonsense.

So i suppose he should delete all of the logs he hasn't been able to verify due to the missing log? Talk about forum nonsense.

[+kunarion]

Is anyone actually reading this thread? I am reading the most ridiculous replies. Okay, one last time for the band wagon jumpers:

1. He was NEVER called a thief

 

...except by you:

 

If the cacher wants to log this cache, he can return what he took or pay me for what the cache cost to put together. Once he returns what is not his, he can sign the log and I will be more than happy to let him log the cache.