Time to archive the puzzle cache.

2.8k · November 1, 2012

I hate puzzles!

I have a lot of responsibility at work and my brain is always in overdrive but when I get home I like to relax my brain. I go geocaching to get outside and away from my responsibilities, the last thing on earth I want to do is have to think and solve puzzles. As a result my map of unfound caches is nothing but ?s.

What has sitting on your butt googling ideas for hours on end have to do with getting outside and discovering new places?

Furthermore they cause nothing but angst to people wanting to hide new caches because of proximity rules.

It's time to retire the puzzle cache just like we did with virtuals and webcams, they've had their day but it's time to move on.

Let's promote getting outside, not giving people more excuses to sit on their butts.

Who's with me?

7.8k · November 1, 2012

Let's promote getting outside, not giving people more excuses to sit on their butts.

You can promote all you want, but I don't see puzzles going away. Anyway, multis are just as bad or worse for dealing with proximity, so why not advocate for getting rid of those, too? For that matter, some letterbox-hybrids aren't at the posted coordinates, and Wherigos usually take you somewhere else.

Keep in mind that if you don't like seeing those blue question marks all the time, you could always add them to your ignore list.

Edit to add: For the record, I've solved all but a handful of the 250+ puzzles in my area, and they've taught me a lot about problem solving techniques that have helped elsewhere in my life.

Edited November 1, 2012 by The A-Team

4.5k · November 1, 2012

Not me!

November 1, 2012

It's time to retire the puzzle cache just like we did with virtuals and webcams, they've had their day but it's time to move on.

No! No! Not all puzzles! Just the ones I don't like!

For the record, I've solved all but a handful of the 250+ puzzles in my area, and they've taught me a lot about problem solving techniques that have helped elsewhere in my life.

Dang. You're doing better than me. Mostly I find that puzzles teach me about expressing frustration. But then I already had that one down pretty good.

3.7k · November 1, 2012

I like puzzles. I wish there were more. I would like to be out hunting geocaches 24/7, however, this is not practical. There are alot of rainy dark evenings where I am inside at home, doing boring stuff and generally just being available to my kids. Doing puzzles gives my brain something to do.

However, I can sympathize with your aversion to Googling for hours. I don't mind doing these once in a while, but sometimes it gets lame 'specially when you're Googling stuff about sheep. <_<

Edited November 1, 2012 by The_Incredibles_

2.8k · November 1, 2012

Let's promote getting outside, not giving people more excuses to sit on their butts.

You can promote all you want, but I don't see puzzles going away. Anyway, multis are just as bad or worse for dealing with proximity, so why not advocate for getting rid of those, too? For that matter, some letterbox-hybrids aren't at the posted coordinates, and Wherigos usually take you somewhere else.

Keep in mind that if you don't like seeing those blue question marks all the time, you could always add them to your ignore list.

Edit to add: For the record, I've solved all but a handful of the 250+ puzzles in my area, and they've taught me a lot about problem solving techniques that have helped elsewhere in my life.

Multis take you outside, in fact they take you on a tour, letterboxes, same thing, whereigos, again, outdoors, although to me the general idea of geocaching is someone posting coordinates of something they hid and someone else going out and finding it so based on that only traditionals should be allowed and I'd have no problem with that.

But I do not want to offend too many people at once so the puzzle cache is the first that needs to go, once it's gone I'll address the other cache types.

Edited November 1, 2012 by Roman!

22k · November 1, 2012

Who's with me?

I am. What is the deal with requiring math to geocache? Math is hard. Geocaching shouldn't be.

2.8k · November 1, 2012

Who's with me?

I am. What is the deal with requiring math to geocache? Math is hard. Geocaching shouldn't be.

Exactly, I'm driving home, I pull over, there's a geocache here but noooooo......

I have to google the tragicomic ratio of alberts einstein's best friend childhood phone number and multiply it ny the number of time the letter "a" appears on this web page then project a 86.8 degree tangent from the apex of the Ilex opaca exactly 144 meters from zl oenva uhegf......

I'd rather go home.

15.3k · November 1, 2012

I like puzzles. I wish there were more.

+1

I make a point of solving puzzles in areas I know I'm going to be traveling to. About half my Favorites are mystery/puzzle caches. The highlight of my geocaching year is focused on solving puzzles cooperatively in the GBA forums.

22k · November 1, 2012

I'd rather go home.

And Alberts got divorced. Think about that the next time you get married.

bd

Edited November 1, 2012 by BlueDeuce

2.8k · November 1, 2012

I'd rather go home.

And Alberts got divorced. Think about that the next time you get married.

bd

I got married once, still am and that's the worst puzzle of all.

22k · November 1, 2012

2k · November 1, 2012

Those earth caches, get rid of those too, some of them expect you to do math too!

6.1k · November 1, 2012

Yeah! Those puzzle caches are like Premium Member Only caches. Instead of paying $30, you have to have brains, creativity, patience, or a good PAF hotline.

November 1, 2012

Let's promote getting outside, not giving people more excuses to sit on their butts.

Excuses like posting to the forums?

3.6k · November 1, 2012

Wait a min, is this a tongue in cheek thing?

Are you implying that you wish we have a puzzle solving forum? <_<

2.8k · November 1, 2012

Yeah! Those puzzle caches are like Premium Member Only caches. Instead of paying $30, you have to have brains, creativity, patience, or a good PAF hotline.

ALRs!

1.9k · November 1, 2012

I like puzzles. I wish there were more. I would like to be out hunting geocaches 24/7, however, this is not practical. There are alot of rainy dark evenings where I am inside at home, doing boring stuff and generally just being available to my kids. Doing puzzles gives my brain something to do.

However, I can sympathize with your aversion to Googling for hours. I don't mind doing these once in a while, but sometimes it gets lame 'specially when you're Googling stuff about sheep.

+1

We love puzzle caches. They are the ones we seek out first when heading for a new area. They keep our minds sharp, even with some of the frustrations!

If you don't like puzzle caches, then don't do them. But just remember, there are tons of people who really, really enjoy them.

Just like all of geocaching, not all aspects of caching appeal to all people and not all people like all aspects. Enjoy the things in the game the way you like, and we will enjoy it the way we like. Doesn't make one thing "bad" and one thing "good"...just different strokes for different folks!

5k · November 1, 2012

I hate puzzles!

I have a lot of responsibility at work and my brain is always in overdrive but when I get home I like to relax my brain. I go geocaching to get outside and away from my responsibilities, the last thing on earth I want to do is have to think and solve puzzles. As a result my map of unfound caches is nothing but ?s.

What has sitting on your butt googling ideas for hours on end have to do with getting outside and discovering new places?

Furthermore they cause nothing but angst to people wanting to hide new caches because of proximity rules.

It's time to retire the puzzle cache just like we did with virtuals and webcams, they've had their day but it's time to move on.

Let's promote getting outside, not giving people more excuses to sit on their butts.

Who's with me?

Where the "Like" button?

2.8k · November 1, 2012

I like puzzles. I wish there were more. I would like to be out hunting geocaches 24/7, however, this is not practical. There are alot of rainy dark evenings where I am inside at home, doing boring stuff and generally just being available to my kids. Doing puzzles gives my brain something to do.

However, I can sympathize with your aversion to Googling for hours. I don't mind doing these once in a while, but sometimes it gets lame 'specially when you're Googling stuff about sheep.

+1

We love puzzle caches. They are the ones we seek out first when heading for a new area. They keep our minds sharp, even with some of the frustrations!

If you don't like puzzle caches, then don't do them. But just remember, there are tons of people who really, really enjoy them.

Just like all of geocaching, not all aspects of caching appeal to all people and not all people like all aspects. Enjoy the things in the game the way you like, and we will enjoy it the way we like. Doesn't make one thing "bad" and one thing "good"...just different strokes for different folks!

I like virtuals and webcams but my point is neither these nor puzzles represent the original intent of geocaching, they all need to go.

5.3k · November 1, 2012

I like virtuals and webcams but my point is neither these nor puzzles represent the original intent of geocaching, they all need to go.

Really? You were around back then? You know the "original intent" of geocaching?

Amazing.

2.8k · November 1, 2012

I like virtuals and webcams but my point is neither these nor puzzles represent the original intent of geocaching, they all need to go.

Really? You were around back then? You know the "original intent" of geocaching?

Amazing.

Not hard to figure out, place a container post the coordinates, have others find it and sign the log, no brain surgery unlike some puzzles.

5k · November 1, 2012

I like puzzles. I wish there were more. I would like to be out hunting geocaches 24/7, however, this is not practical. There are alot of rainy dark evenings where I am inside at home, doing boring stuff and generally just being available to my kids. Doing puzzles gives my brain something to do.

However, I can sympathize with your aversion to Googling for hours. I don't mind doing these once in a while, but sometimes it gets lame 'specially when you're Googling stuff about sheep.

+1

We love puzzle caches. They are the ones we seek out first when heading for a new area. They keep our minds sharp, even with some of the frustrations!

If you don't like puzzle caches, then don't do them. But just remember, there are tons of people who really, really enjoy them.

Just like all of geocaching, not all aspects of caching appeal to all people and not all people like all aspects. Enjoy the things in the game the way you like, and we will enjoy it the way we like. Doesn't make one thing "bad" and one thing "good"...just different strokes for different folks!

I can't "just not do them". They affect my ability to know where I can hide a cache. This may not have been an issue when things started but there are parts of the map now where the color blue is the dominate color. If you people really like puzzles go buy a book. This is geocaching, we're supposed to exploring the world around us looking for hidden containers. Have the actual caches become so boring that people would rather sit in front of your computers for hours doing puzzles instead? To me, most puzzles are like work. I already have a job and when I'm not at it, I'd rather be up in the mountains looking for and hiding caches.

I know that this is a very unpopular opinion and I know that puzzles are not likely to ever go away. I usually just keep my mouth shut on the subject, but I simply can't share the idea that all I have to do is ignore them. Their very existence does effect my ability to play the game.

Edited November 1, 2012 by Don_J

2.8k · November 1, 2012

I like puzzles. I wish there were more. I would like to be out hunting geocaches 24/7, however, this is not practical. There are alot of rainy dark evenings where I am inside at home, doing boring stuff and generally just being available to my kids. Doing puzzles gives my brain something to do.

However, I can sympathize with your aversion to Googling for hours. I don't mind doing these once in a while, but sometimes it gets lame 'specially when you're Googling stuff about sheep.

+1

We love puzzle caches. They are the ones we seek out first when heading for a new area. They keep our minds sharp, even with some of the frustrations!

If you don't like puzzle caches, then don't do them. But just remember, there are tons of people who really, really enjoy them.

Just like all of geocaching, not all aspects of caching appeal to all people and not all people like all aspects. Enjoy the things in the game the way you like, and we will enjoy it the way we like. Doesn't make one thing "bad" and one thing "good"...just different strokes for different folks!

I can't "just not do them". They affect my ability to know where I can hide a cache. This may not have been an issue when things started but there are parts of the map now where the color blue is the dominate color. If you people really like puzzles go buy a book. This is geocaching, we're supposed to exploring the world around us looking for hidden containers. Have the actual caches become so boring that people would rather sit in front of your computers for hours doing puzzles instead? Too me, most puzzles are like work. I already have a job and when I'm not at it, I'd rather be up in the mountains looking for and hiding caches.

I know that this is a very unpopular opinion and I know that puzzles are not likely to ever go away. I usually just keep my mouth shut on the subject, but I simply can't share the idea that all I have to do is ignore them. Their very existence does effect my ability to play the game.

+1

3.7k · November 1, 2012

Let's promote getting outside, not giving people more excuses to sit on their butts.

Excuses like posting to the forums?

Brilliant. :laughing: :laughing:

2.8k · November 1, 2012

Let's promote getting outside, not giving people more excuses to sit on their butts.

Excuses like posting to the forums?

Brilliant. :laughing: :laughing:

Actually very stupid because if there were no puzzles I'd have no reason to start this thread thus I could be out finding the caches that were placed in the spots the puzzles were taking up.

Also posting in this thread does not take the butt sitting research that puzzle caches do.

1.3k · November 1, 2012

I like virtuals and webcams but my point is neither these nor puzzles represent the original intent of geocaching, they all need to go.

I'm pretty sure nano caches stuck to stop signs don't represent the intent of geocaching, either. But, of course, that is sooo much better than a puzzle because it gets me out of the house, right? You already have 1.5M or so traditional caches to get you out of the house. Go find them.

3.7k · November 1, 2012

I can't "just not do them". They affect my ability to know where I can hide a cache.

:signalviolin:

Have the actual caches become so boring that people would rather sit in front of your computers for hours doing puzzles instead?

Have the actual caches become so boring you would rather sit in front of your computer discussing why people shouldn't be sitting in front of their computers? :blink: :anibad:

2.8k · November 1, 2012

I like virtuals and webcams but my point is neither these nor puzzles represent the original intent of geocaching, they all need to go.

I'm pretty sure nano caches stuck to stop signs don't represent the intent of geocaching, either. But, of course, that is sooo much better than a puzzle because it gets me out of the house, right? You already have 1.5M or so traditional caches to get you out of the house. Go find them.

Actually they do in a sick and twisted way, as for the 1.5m caches, they are quite far away but theses stupid ?s are all around me.

3.7k · November 1, 2012

Actually they do in a sick and twisted way, as for the 1.5m caches, they are quite far away but theses stupid ?s are all around me.

Send me some GC codes. I"m bored.

2.8k · November 1, 2012

I can't "just not do them". They affect my ability to know where I can hide a cache.

Have the actual caches become so boring that people would rather sit in front of your computers for hours doing puzzles instead?

Have the actual caches become so boring you would rather sit in front of your computer discussing why people shouldn't be sitting in front of their computers?

This is a silly argument as you can't be out caching all the time, sometimes it nice to post here. My argument is puzzles have nothing to do with Geocaching, all you are doing is deflecting.

All anyone has done is give other examples of my point but no one actually pointed out why puzzles belong, in a way you all proved they should be done away with.

Edited November 1, 2012 by Roman!

3.7k · November 1, 2012

My argument is puzzles have nothing to do with Geocaching

Oh but they do... :anitongue:

2.8k · November 1, 2012

Actually they do in a sick and twisted way, as for the 1.5m caches, they are quite far away but theses stupid ?s are all around me.

Send me some GC codes. I"m bored.

GC2KKDD

5k · November 1, 2012

I like virtuals and webcams but my point is neither these nor puzzles represent the original intent of geocaching, they all need to go.

I'm pretty sure nano caches stuck to stop signs don't represent the intent of geocaching, either. But, of course, that is sooo much better than a puzzle because it gets me out of the house, right? You already have 1.5M or so traditional caches to get you out of the house. Go find them.

That's funny. Most of local puzzles lead to nanos stuck to the hardware on telephone poles. Besides, I can ignore the traditional nanos and I can hide better caches around them because I KNOW where they are.

5k · November 1, 2012

I can't "just not do them". They affect my ability to know where I can hide a cache.

Have the actual caches become so boring that people would rather sit in front of your computers for hours doing puzzles instead?

Have the actual caches become so boring you would rather sit in front of your computer discussing why people shouldn't be sitting in front of their computers?

This is why I don't typically discuss the subject on the forum. Some people can't remain civil. I find your little emoticon offensive. I wasn't whining. I was stating a fact. It's too bad that some can't discuss the topic without resorting to such tactics.

I'm done...

1.3k · November 1, 2012

That's funny. Most of local puzzles lead to nanos stuck to the hardware on telephone poles.

I can't deny that many puzzle finals are less than stellar. The rationalization being that if you knock yourself out solving the puzzle, CO's want to reward you with a gimme cache. I would rather the finding part involve a challenge but I have solved some puzzles that were difficult enough that I gladly took the slam-dunk find.

Besides, I can ignore the traditional nanos and I can hide better caches around them because I KNOW where they are.

Again, I'm with you there. I live close to Appleton, WI. In our caching community, it's affectionately known as Puzzleton. Whenever I get an idea to hide a new cache, I don't even consider hiding one in the Fox Valley area. Just too many landmines to dance around.

But, I don't see this thread as being an argument about the difficulties of hiding caches because of puzzles. To me, it reads as a lament that Roman looks at his map and sees nothing but ? marks and because of that, he has less caches to find. It's not the same argument.

November 1, 2012

I like puzzle caches.

Some of my favourite caches are puzzle caches especially the ones that make me do some research on an area or a puzzle linked to the place I will be visiting. This combines knowledge and getting out to an interesting area. Generally I find that the CO's who are creating puzzle caches tend to put a little bit more into the overall cache placement (quality of listing, nice area, size of container etc). Not sure if it is me but I also feel an additional sense of accomplishment when I have solved a puzzle or mystery and it all works out and the cache is located. Maybe this is just the competetive edge in me that drives this part of my enjoyment. I suppose I could just do a puzzle in a book but the fact that puzzles on geocaching.com actually lead to a cache is obviously a fact that heightens my enjoyment.

There are always going to be the odd occasions when you just find the puzzle too difficult and have to go to the CO for help (I personally find it very difficult to ask for help) with a puzzle and there should be no shame in doing this or of course using the ignore button.

Message to the OP- I too have a challenging job but I tend to find a little bit of puzzle solving/crosswords etc just as relaxing as doing nothing (although I do try and do nothing sometimes aswell). However if you don't want to give them a go then fair enough but as for archiving them, no thanks, there are people that really enjoy setting them and working them out and then getting off their butt and searching for them.

4.4k · November 1, 2012

A cacher who thinks puzzles are only about googling obscure stuff... hasn't seen a whole lot of puzzles.

November 1, 2012

I like puzzle caches. I've solved puzzles for caches I might never get to log. Does the world revolve around you? If you don't like them, should they be unavailable to everyone?

5.3k · November 1, 2012

My argument is puzzles have nothing to do with Geocaching, all you are doing is deflecting.

All anyone has done is give other examples of my point but no one actually pointed out why puzzles belong, in a way you all proved they should be done away with.

A while back you wrote:

How about "to each his own"?

That's been tried but unless your doing it some other person's way that other person is going to complain how you play the game but if you do do it some other person's way then many others will complain how you play the game.

There's a word for what you're doing here, you know. It's "hypocrisy."

November 1, 2012

Love Puzzle Geocaches and I wish there were more of them in my area.

14k · November 1, 2012

I like puzzles. I wish there were more. I would like to be out hunting geocaches 24/7, however, this is not practical. There are alot of rainy dark evenings where I am inside at home, doing boring stuff and generally just being available to my kids. Doing puzzles gives my brain something to do.

+1

To me, puzzle solving and going out hunting geocaches are mutually exclusive activities. I have a limited amount of time when I can be out hunting caches, but most evenings, while I'm at home with my family, I can spend time solving puzzles and reading the forums.

As for wishing there were more, many that enjoy solving puzzle caches are not adverse to working on a few that are far from home. Even if you never find the cache for it, it can still help hone your puzzle solving skills and you might see a puzzle locally that uses a similar technique that you can easily solve.

1.2k · November 1, 2012

How about let's start by banning all LPCs all park and grabs and all powertrails?

I agree with Viajero Perdido if all your local puzzles deal with hours of googling then I feel sorry for you. Puzzles are as varied as traditionals. Some are straight forward with info on how to solve on the page, some are complex ciphers, some require research, and some require decoding obscure clues to even get started. I enjoy the challenge of puzzles. Yes some do end in boring park and grabs and those are a little less exciting. I try to make mine at least end in interesting spots, in parks, or along trails.

2.8k · November 1, 2012

I like puzzles. I wish there were more. I would like to be out hunting geocaches 24/7, however, this is not practical. There are alot of rainy dark evenings where I am inside at home, doing boring stuff and generally just being available to my kids. Doing puzzles gives my brain something to do.

+1

To me, puzzle solving and going out hunting geocaches are mutually exclusive activities. I have a limited amount of time when I can be out hunting caches, but most evenings, while I'm at home with my family, I can spend time solving puzzles and reading the forums.

As for wishing there were more, many that enjoy solving puzzle caches are not adverse to working on a few that are far from home. Even if you never find the cache for it, it can still help hone your puzzle solving skills and you might see a puzzle locally that uses a similar technique that you can easily solve.

My question still is: what do puzzles really have to do with Geocaching?

Would Geocaching exist without puzzles? Absolutely.

Would Geocaching exist without traditionals? No.

Edited November 1, 2012 by Roman!

November 1, 2012

We have put out quite a few puzzle caches. We usually have them published in groups in the same area so tht the solvers can come and grab more than one cache. They are usually in places like industrial parks in order to leave nice places for traditional caches.

We live in a tourist area and there are many caching tourists who come in the summer and do the local puzzle series including ours. If I have to archive some puzzles I try to not do it just before summer, so not to disappoint cachrs who solved puzzles prior to their trip.

IF puzzles were banned, we would not have gotten logs such as this one:

**********

Am visiting NB from Ottawa with my sister cleo23 and her two granddaughters, Katiekin and Reysecakes. We are beyond excited. This trip was planned solely because of Ma & Pa's micrologic puzzles; love the series. We have done all the ones in the Gatineau area, and just wanted more. Of course our husbands who are not geocachers think that we should be committed, but, we made it our goal to complete all the ML puzzles and then save up for this trip. For us, this is an event of a life-time. We have never seen this part of Canada, so it is wonderful to get the chance. Thanks Ma & Pa for putting this great series out and for adding so much fun to not only our day, but our lives. Also for my sister, cleo23 to be able to have this trip with her two young granddaughters, who are 10 and 12 is wonderful. Special, love filled thanks to my most favorite sister, Libby, for all of her hard work getting everything organized for this trip; totally awesome; love you much. Ma & Pa, we will always remember this trip and all the fun you have added to our lives; saying thanks just doesn't seem adequate. Cheers, happy caching. SL

2.8k · November 1, 2012

We have put out quite a few puzzle caches. We usually have them published in groups in the same area so tht the solvers can come and grab more than one cache. They are usually in places like industrial parks in order to leave nice places for traditional caches.

We live in a tourist area and there are many caching tourists who come in the summer and do the local puzzle series including ours. If I have to archive some puzzles I try to not do it just before summer, so not to disappoint cachrs who solved puzzles prior to their trip.

IF puzzles were banned, we would not have gotten logs such as this one:

**********

Am visiting NB from Ottawa with my sister cleo23 and her two granddaughters, Katiekin and Reysecakes. We are beyond excited. This trip was planned solely because of Ma & Pa's micrologic puzzles; love the series. We have done all the ones in the Gatineau area, and just wanted more. Of course our husbands who are not geocachers think that we should be committed, but, we made it our goal to complete all the ML puzzles and then save up for this trip. For us, this is an event of a life-time. We have never seen this part of Canada, so it is wonderful to get the chance. Thanks Ma & Pa for putting this great series out and for adding so much fun to not only our day, but our lives. Also for my sister, cleo23 to be able to have this trip with her two young granddaughters, who are 10 and 12 is wonderful. Special, love filled thanks to my most favorite sister, Libby, for all of her hard work getting everything organized for this trip; totally awesome; love you much. Ma & Pa, we will always remember this trip and all the fun you have added to our lives; saying thanks just doesn't seem adequate. Cheers, happy caching. SL

The E.T. Highway series gets the same if not better logs and that's great but I still maintain puzzles have nothing to do with Geocaching, maybe they should have their own site..

I'm sure virtuals have gotten and still do get great logs but they were banned.

Edited November 1, 2012 by Roman!

November 1, 2012

I HEART puzzle caches! Even though I'm not very good at them. There's a dude in SE FL that has a bunch and also directions on what to look for to solve puzzle caches. They're especially good for weenies like me who don't like to cache much in the winter. I have to have SOMETHING to do as I sit by the fire and drink hot apple cider.

2.6k · November 1, 2012

My question still is: what do puzzles really have to do with Geocaching?

Would Geocaching exist without puzzles? Absolutely.

Would Geocaching exist without traditionals? No.

Yes, Geocaching could exist with only Traditionals. Puzzles could go, as could Wherigos, Letterbox hybrids, Events, Earth Caches, etc.

But many people like them, so I don't see that happening.

I generally like them - well the ones I can solve! The "eureka" moment when solving a good puzzle I find often more exciting than finding the actual cache. Of course there are all sorts of "puzzle/mystery" caches - including the "bonus" cache which generally doesn't require any desk work, but instead picking up clues from other caches. I'm guessing it is the type which require solving a puzzle "at your desk" to get the coordinates which you would like to go.

Now - while I like puzzles, I primarily geocache to get out and get exercise (and find caches). So if most of the caches in my area were difficult puzzles I couldn't solve, I might feel differently. As it is of my nearest 1000 caches, 85 (8.5%) are puzzles. 824 (82.4%) are Traditionals. 82 (8.2%) are Multis. That leaves plenty of other caches to find apart from Puzzles. Perhaps your local situation is different.

2.8k · November 1, 2012

My question still is: what do puzzles really have to do with Geocaching?

Would Geocaching exist without puzzles? Absolutely.

Would Geocaching exist without traditionals? No.

Yes, Geocaching could exist with only Traditionals. Puzzles could go, as could Wherigos, Letterbox hybrids, Events, Earth Caches, etc.

But many people like them, so I don't see that happening.

I generally like them - well the ones I can solve! The "eureka" moment when solving a good puzzle I find often more exciting than finding the actual cache. Of course there are all sorts of "puzzle/mystery" caches - including the "bonus" cache which generally doesn't require any desk work, but instead picking up clues from other caches. I'm guessing it is the type which require solving a puzzle "at your desk" to get the coordinates which you would like to go.

Now - while I like puzzles, I primarily geocache to get out and get exercise (and find caches). So if most of the caches in my area were difficult puzzles I couldn't solve, I might feel differently. As it is of my nearest 1000 caches, 85 (8.5%) are puzzles. 824 (82.4%) are Traditionals. 82 (8.2%) are Multis. That leaves plenty of other caches to find apart from Puzzles. Perhaps your local situation is different.

Whereigos, letterboxes, events and earth caches all promote you to get outdoors, puzzles generally promote you spending more time indoors, that's the difference and that's why I say they have nothing to do with Geocaching.

I get it, for some they are fun but why can't I make a cache requiring the finder to first have a beer with me before getting the final coordinates, that might be fun too and has as much, if not more to do with Geocaching.

November 1, 2012

I hate puzzles!

Well, I like puzzles. So unless your opinion is more valuable then mine then this isn't a valid reason to ban them.

I have a lot of responsibility at work and my brain is always in overdrive but when I get home I like to relax my brain. I go geocaching to get outside and away from my responsibilities, the last thing on earth I want to do is have to think and solve puzzles. As a result my map of unfound caches is nothing but ?s.

Again, I too have lots of responsibilities at work, and my brain is always on. However, I find working on puzzles stimulating and distracting so I enjoy them. Again, we have an ad personam arguement here, my preference and you preference have the same value so not a justification to get rid of them just because you don't like them.

What has sitting on your butt googling ideas for hours on end have to do with getting outside and discovering new places?

First, your assumption is that the ONLY purpose of geocaching is 'getting outside and discovering new places". If that is the only goal that geocaching is allowed to achieve then perhaps you are right. But if all you wanted was to get outside and discover new places you could do that by visiting the park without geocaching. So there must be some other goal. The joy of the hunt is one of those I would propose. And where does that joy come from but the mental stimulation of searching for something that is hidden. And if that is it, then puzzles are just an extension of that, pushing the challenge and mental stimulation to the beginning of the search instead of the end.

Furthermore they cause nothing but angst to people wanting to hide new caches because of proximity rules.

Here I do agree with you, somewhat. Though I don't know if angst is the correct word. Frustration yes, inconvenience yes, but angst maybe not. However, and speaking only for my excellent reviewers, there are solutions. You can get a area checked before you commit to a hide. They may not tell you where the puzzle final is but will often tell you that it is there, and sometimes which one it is.

Plus as an experienced cacher, when you see a conspicuous void in a cache friendly area you can usually surmise the cause.

Still, on this point I do agree somewhat.

It's time to retire the puzzle cache just like we did with virtuals and webcams, they've had their day but it's time to move on.

This point assumes that they "have had their day" which is still not proven. In fact, from the plethora of opinions in the forums, many people do not think virtuals and webcams have had their day.

Let's promote getting outside, not giving people more excuses to sit on their butts.

Again, your assumption is that working on puzzles doesn't promote people to get outside. And that working on puzzles while sitting on your butt has no value. There is a lot of research that show that challenging mental activity, including puzzles, can have significant benefits for improving memory, problem solving skills and potentially reducing the risk of dementia and Alzheimer.

In my mind, that sounds like a great endorsement for puzzles.

And once you have solved the puzzle, what do you do? You go outside. So here, puzzles are doing what you want them to do.

Who's with me?

Definitely not me

Time to archive the puzzle cache.

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