Violent death of a cache

[Guest arffer]

If you haven't read this cache yet, you are missing a great story. As its archived, you will have to log in first.

 

Start at the log on 9/19, then read up the logs, then read the cache description last to get the full impact. WOW!

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=1094

[Guest cmarrero]

Oh My God!!

 

Luckly the last person did get jumped by everyone. I live in NJ and Work in NY right near central park. I wanted to go hunting durning lunch but never got the chance to beacause of sept 11. I don't feel like getting arrested! I think we should all stay away from the city caches until things calm down.

But still that was a good story.

 

chris

[Guest cmarrero]

own.

But still that was a good story.

 

chris

[Guest Reservoir Dog]

Just out of curiosity, was the cache labeled or identified in any manner?

 

[Guest arffer]

quote:

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Originally posted by Reservoir Dog:

Just out of curiosity, was the cache labeled or identified in any manner?

---

 

One of the logs indicated they found half of a tupperware lid with hing.com on it, so yeah, it was clearly labled. Why didn't they just go to the web site?

 

I remember a few years back when airport security blew up some kid's Sony Playstation he got for Christmas and had in his luggage. Blow up first, ask questions and think later.

[Guest Choberiba]

"This cache blows"

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by arffer:

Blow up first, ask questions and think later.

---

 

In their defense... Wouldn't you go about this task in exactly the same way?

 

A PlayStation is a little easier to replace than an arm.

[Guest badbitbucket]

IMHO:... er... nah, I'll just leave this alone and keep my big mouth shut... =:{}~

[Guest arffer]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Choberiba:

In their defense... Wouldn't you go about this task in exactly the same way?

---

 

In the case of the playstation, well, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. But in the case of the cache (the main topic here), heck it had the web site address right on the top of the lid!

[Guest Gustaf]

So why couldn't a terrorist write a web address on a bomb, to make it look like something else than a bomb?

[Guest badbitbucket]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gustaf:

So why couldn't a terrorist write a web address on a bomb, to make it look like something else than a bomb?

---

 

They could. Or they could create a geocaching event to get lots of people in one place.

 

Then again they could also plant a mine along a popular trail, or a not-so-popular trail, etc.

 

I prefer not to live in paranoia (no offence intended) it's a real drag.

 

-BBB

[Guest Quinnow]

Some of you guys really crack me up, guess i'll also have to start worrying about my daughter leaving her lunch box laying on a school bench too, dont want to hear someone call in and say that theres a very strange "scooby-doo" container laying around and to please come quick and blow it up!

I do however agree that for the time being until people start to get in touch with reality that we all use clear plastic containers that are marked very well.

For the rest of you guys that would prefer to blow things up first and ask questions later, please stay inside and lock your doors, I would feel much safer that way

 

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Quinn Stone

Rochester, NY.14616

www.Navicache.com

[Guest Quinnow]

Some of you guys really crack me up, guess i'll also have to start worrying about my daughter leaving her lunch box laying on a school bench too, dont want to hear someone call in and say that theres a very strange "scooby-doo" container laying around and to please come quick and blow it up!

I do however agree that for the time being until people start to get in touch with reality that we all use clear plastic containers that are marked very well.

For the rest of you guys that would prefer to blow things up first and ask questions later, please stay inside and lock your doors, I would feel much safer that way

 

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Quinn Stone

Rochester, NY.14616

www.Navicache.com

[Guest bk11]

Heh, heh... perhaps they thought that Oscar was involved with the Bert-Bin Laden Connection.

 

MN Geocaching

[Guest Cape Cod Cache]

Urban Legend status has been achieved...

[Guest CrashT]

On a recent trip to Pismo Beach and the San Luis Obispo California area we found all the caches to be in clear tupperware containers. I thought it was odd since all the containers in our area are camo. However, in light of this story, a clear container is probably best if you are hiding it anywhere around buildings or heavy foot traffic. This way there will be no confusion about what it is.

[Guest brokenwing]

I've noticed some of you posting thoughts like: "use Tupperware to avoid this in the future". The point you may be missing is that this cache WAS a Tupperware container.

 

Since they should have known better, but still chose to blow it up, I don't know if there is any way to avoid this kind of stupidity and paranoia regardless of what kind of container is used for our caches.

 

If we choose to think that everyone is out to get us, sooner or later they will be!

 

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http://www.cordianet.com/geocaching

[Guest brokenwing]

and paranoia regardless of what kind of container is used for our caches.

 

If we choose to think that everyone is out to get us, sooner or later they will be!

 

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http://www.cordianet.com/geocaching

[Guest boreal jeff]

How do you view a archived cache?

 

[This message has been edited by boreal jeff (edited 19 October 2001).]

[Guest navdog]

You have to be logged in, go to the "seek cache" page then type in the GC---- number in the "find waypoint" box.

[Guest gbois]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Quinnow:

For the rest of you guys that would prefer to blow things up first and ask questions later, please stay inside and lock your doors, I would feel much safer that way

 

---

 

Amen

 

On the other hand, the cache may have broken one if the basic rules of geocaching. It appears that the cache wasn't on public land or have the permission of the owner(s). (Yes, the White House is publicly owned and no, I don't recommend placing one there.)

 

I have heard of a cache being placed inside the visitor center of a national park, with the permission of the rangers, and with instructions to geocachers to tell the rangers what you're doing. Knowledge is power, ignorance breeds paranoia. Let's just use our heads and hope others do too.

 

[This message has been edited by gbois (edited 21 October 2001).]

[Guest gbois]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Quinnow:

For the rest of you guys that would prefer to blow things up first and ask questions later, please stay inside and lock your doors, I would feel much safer that way

 

---

 

Amen

 

On the other hand, the cache may have broken one if the basic rules of geocaching. It appears that the cache wasn't on public land or have the permission of the owner(s). (Yes, the White House is publicly owned and no, I don't recommend placing one there.)

 

I have heard of a cache being placed inside the visitor center of a national park, with the permission of the rangers, and with instructions to geocachers to tell the rangers what you're doing. Knowledge is power, ignorance breeds paranoia. Let's just use our heads and hope others do too.

 

[This message has been edited by gbois (edited 21 October 2001).]

[Guest echo2000]

Forgive my ignorance but I didn't think the bomb squad just blew up packages. I thought an involved examination of the package was to ensue first.

 

Now, the kid's PSX was maybe unidentifiable a suitcase (doubt it due to technology but let's just say) so maybe I could understand that one. But a clear tupperware should be a little easier to asses, no?

 

In light of this event, all my caches will be packed to the brim with yellow, marshmallow PEEPS to maximize the effect of such a combustionable demise!

 

E2

[Guest echo2000]

Forgive my ignorance but I didn't think the bomb squad just blew up packages. I thought an involved examination of the package was to ensue first.

 

Now, the kid's PSX was maybe unidentifiable a suitcase (doubt it due to technology but let's just say) so maybe I could understand that one. But a clear tupperware should be a little easier to asses, no?

 

In light of this event, all my caches will be packed to the brim with yellow, marshmallow PEEPS to maximize the effect of such a combustionable demise!

 

E2

[Guest ggaspari]

quote:

---

Originally posted by echo2000:

In light of this event, all my caches will be packed to the brim with yellow, marshmallow PEEPS to maximize the effect of such a combustionable demise!

 

E2

---

 

Yeah, and maybe some fireworks-grade gunpowder would provide a nice finale also (just kidding

 

But even with see-through containers, there are items that should not be used, like:

 

- Alarm clock

- Wires

- Baby powder, flour, etc

- ANYTHING with arabic sayings

- bin-Whatever photos

- a note saying "Allah is great"

 

BTW I hope you take this post lightly. It's for you to LAUGH, ok?

 

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Lieutenant Gaspari - MD

[Guest ggaspari]

quote:

---

Originally posted by echo2000:

In light of this event, all my caches will be packed to the brim with yellow, marshmallow PEEPS to maximize the effect of such a combustionable demise!

 

E2

---

 

Yeah, and maybe some fireworks-grade gunpowder would provide a nice finale also (just kidding

 

But even with see-through containers, there are items that should not be used, like:

 

- Alarm clock

- Wires

- Baby powder, flour, etc

- ANYTHING with arabic sayings

- bin-Whatever photos

- a note saying "Allah is great"

 

BTW I hope you take this post lightly. It's for you to LAUGH, ok?

 

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Lieutenant Gaspari - MD

[Guest ggaspari]

enant Gaspari - MD

[Guest Quinnow]

Heres another one blown up. Guess it's time to think of a new way to make containers look safe...

 

http://www.mywebpal.com/mywebpal_cfmfiles/npv2/news_tool_v2.cfm?show=localnews&pnpID=670&NewsID=204173&CategoryID=2196&on=0

 

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Quinn Stone

Rochester, NY.14616

www.Navicache.com

[Guest Cape Cod Cache]

Paranoia runs deep,

Into your life it will creep.

stop children, look around,

whats that cache all around......

 

Irony, I have a group of geocachers on my model train now...

 

It's amazing how paranoid people are, local cable news has reported people half way through a pizza noticed white powder on the bottom.. NO KIDDING!!!

99.99~ % of the people have nothing to worry about. Always 1 idiot that wants to be 'funny', (remember high school?).

[Guest AFCache]

Call me simple but here is an Idea...

 

Why not collectively agree to standardize what container a cache must be. for example 4" pvc capped with a flat earth tone paint scheme clearly labeled with: Geocaching.com and cache owners e-mail address. or you could attach a sealed tag with a description of what a cache is. the tag don't have to be huge and it could be attached to the outside fairly easy. One step further would be to label the outside with "contents are inert" seems simple to me.

 

Also Let me say this post was not intended to slam or take a shot at anyone.

[Guest arffer]

nnel where you can't see the other end. IMHO...

 

[This message has been edited by arffer (edited 03 November 2001).]

[Guest arffer]

Here is the link to the Tunnel Vision 1909 cache if you want to read it. Remember to log in first to see the archived cache.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=6684

 

You know, after reading the logs, this thing should have been archived sooner, it sounds extremely dangerous. Imagin a cache that has folks walking through an active train tunnel where you can't see the other end. IMHO...

 

[This message has been edited by arffer (edited 03 November 2001).]

[Guest scooterj]

quote:

---

Originally posted by AFCache:

Why not collectively agree to standardize what container a cache must be. for example 4" pvc capped with a flat earth tone paint scheme clearly labeled with: Geocaching.com and cache owners e-mail address. or you could attach a sealed tag with a description of what a cache is. the tag don't have to be huge and it could be attached to the outside fairly easy. One step further would be to label the outside with "contents are inert" seems simple to me.

---

 

Well, PVC has some problems of its own. For one, people will probably mistake it for a pipe bomb. It's also not as easily available to everyonee and so would probably way cut down the number of neew caches hidden.

 

Plus, the words "contents are inert" would mean as much to a paranoid person as "Wait! Don't run! We mean you no harm!" meant to the people running from the heat ray-shooting Martians in the movie "Mars Attacks!"

[Guest scooterj]

quote:

---

Originally posted by AFCache:

Why not collectively agree to standardize what container a cache must be. for example 4" pvc capped with a flat earth tone paint scheme clearly labeled with: Geocaching.com and cache owners e-mail address. or you could attach a sealed tag with a description of what a cache is. the tag don't have to be huge and it could be attached to the outside fairly easy. One step further would be to label the outside with "contents are inert" seems simple to me.

---

 

Well, PVC has some problems of its own. For one, people will probably mistake it for a pipe bomb. It's also not as easily available to everyonee and so would probably way cut down the number of neew caches hidden.

 

Plus, the words "contents are inert" would mean as much to a paranoid person as "Wait! Don't run! We mean you no harm!" meant to the people running from the heat ray-shooting Martians in the movie "Mars Attacks!"

[Guest Mopar]

quote:

---

Originally posted by scooterj:

Plus, the words "contents are inert" would mean as much to a paranoid person as "Wait! Don't run! We mean you no harm!" meant to the people running from the heat ray-shooting Martians in the movie "Mars Attacks!"

---

Sorry, cant resist! I LOVE that AWFUL movie

audio link

[Guest Mopar]

quote:

---

Originally posted by scooterj:

Plus, the words "contents are inert" would mean as much to a paranoid person as "Wait! Don't run! We mean you no harm!" meant to the people running from the heat ray-shooting Martians in the movie "Mars Attacks!"

---

Sorry, cant resist! I LOVE that AWFUL movie

audio link

[Guest ggaspari]

Another temporary alternative to make caching less likely to be mistaken as "terrorist activity" is to resort to micro-caches or virtual caches. 35mm film cans are just too small to be taken for bombs or such. And virtual caches just can't be mistaken for obvious reasons.

 

I know it just spoils the fun, but for the time being this looks like the most likely way to go.

 

------------------

Lieutenant Gaspari - MD

[Guest ggaspari]

Another temporary alternative to make caching less likely to be mistaken as "terrorist activity" is to resort to micro-caches or virtual caches. 35mm film cans are just too small to be taken for bombs or such. And virtual caches just can't be mistaken for obvious reasons.

 

I know it just spoils the fun, but for the time being this looks like the most likely way to go.

 

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Lieutenant Gaspari - MD

[Guest AFCache]

I still say if the cache is "CLEARLY LABELED" it would most likely not be mistaken for a bomb.. Now common sense says don't put any cache in a high traffic area unless it is well hidden... if those two things are done I think there would be no problems..

[Guest arffer]

quote:

---

Originally posted by AFCache:

I still say if the cache is "CLEARLY LABELED" it would most likely not be mistaken for a bomb.. Now common sense says don't put any cache in a high traffic area unless it is well hidden... if those two things are done I think there would be no problems..

---

 

Both of the caches that were blownup were clearly labled, one was even in clear tupperware.

 

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Team CacheCows of Wisconsin

[Guest AFCache]

The next question would be.....

Did the cache creator inform the land owner/caretaker of the cache's presence?? If you have a well informed host they would be able to let someone know what it is in the event of someone stumbling upon it.. I do believe it says that in the "making a cache" FAQ

[Guest Quinnow]

Another problem I have with this cache is what also was found along with it, here is a quote from the news story...

 

"When deputies and Union Pacific police arrived, the people were gone. On the rocks near the tunnel police found the words ?Geocache 1909? sprayed in gold paint and a green ammunition can. It was later determined a ?cache? was hidden in the tunnel on July 30 and had been visited by several cache hunt players."

 

Seems the hider also felt it was OK to spray paint the rocks with gold paint as well. People need to learn that doing vandalism to land or property while caching is not going to give any of us a good name.

This fellow needs to learn some common sense.

 

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Quinn Stone

Rochester, NY.14616

www.Navicache.com

[Guest jeremy]

Don't know about the second incident, but in the first the caretaker of the building knew about it, as well as the coworkers of the individual who placed it. It just so happened it was on lunch hour and everyone who knew about it had been out.

 

Regardless, in both situations, the officials decided that it was better to err on the side of caution. Nowadays if it looks like a tupperware container, and it smells like a tupperware container, it is a bomb. At least in the eyes of the people who see two people drive away after being involved in what they consider a "suspicious activity."

 

I'm sure I hit the tip of the iceberg, but I did a quick search for "bomb scare" to get a perspective on this. Some were from Google and I searched a local newspaper. Some are from before 9/11:

 

"What we have is a B-O-N-G, not a B-O-M-B," said sheriff's Capt. David Smithey.

http://seattlep-i.nwsource.com/national/bongww.shtml

 

The package turned out to contain nothing but plastic foam packaging, airport spokesman Bob Parker said.

http://seattlep-i.nwsource.com/local/tl2232.shtml

 

The package, opened from a distance with a water cannon, contained four toy dolls.

http://seattlep-i.nwsource.com/football/ts309.shtml

 

The child, aa boy 8 or 9 years old, was by chance carrying a backpack identical to the one used in the test, Evans said.

http://seattlep-i.nwsource.com/local/land12.shtml

 

It took them over six hours to figure out that the PowerBook was the real deal.

http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0104/23.bomb.shtml

 

Instead, the briefcase contained Democratic campaign literature, a police spokesman said.

http://seattlep-i.nwsource.com/local/tl306.shtml

 

The bomb squad detonated the pipe and found it was not an explosive device.

http://www.freep.com/news/nw/terror2001/border20_20010920.htm

 

Wednesday evening, the Empire State Building was evacuated after sniffer dogs gave a positive response to a suspicious package but it turned out to be just a scare.

http://www.atnewyork.com/news/article/0,1471,8471_883961,00.html

 

Local television reports said the object was a television found near an elevator on the parking garage?s seventh floor.

http://www.browndailyherald.com/stories.cfm?S=0&ID=4862

 

Inside, Langer found some clothes and assorted Judaica, including kiddush cups and tzitzit.

http://www.jewishsf.com/bk990910/sfbombscare.shtml

 

Jeremy

[Guest jeremy]

seattlep-i.nwsource.com/football/ts309.shtml" TARGET=_blank>http://seattlep-i.nwsource.com/football/ts309.shtml

 

The child, aa boy 8 or 9 years old, was by chance carrying a backpack identical to the one used in the test, Evans said.

http://seattlep-i.nwsource.com/local/land12.shtml

 

It took them over six hours to figure out that the PowerBook was the real deal.

http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0104/23.bomb.shtml

 

Instead, the briefcase contained Democratic campaign literature, a police spokesman said.

http://seattlep-i.nwsource.com/local/tl306.shtml

 

The bomb squad detonated the pipe and found it was not an explosive device.

http://www.freep.com/news/nw/terror2001/border20_20010920.htm

 

Wednesday evening, the Empire State Building was evacuated after sniffer dogs gave a positive response to a suspicious package but it turned out to be just a scare.

http://www.atnewyork.com/news/article/0,1471,8471_883961,00.html

 

Local television reports said the object was a television found near an elevator on the parking garage?s seventh floor.

http://www.browndailyherald.com/stories.cfm?S=0&ID=4862

 

Inside, Langer found some clothes and assorted Judaica, including kiddush cups and tzitzit.

http://www.jewishsf.com/bk990910/sfbombscare.shtml

 

Jeremy

[Guest macdaddymd@aol.com]

I guess I'll put my empty out my old ammo box and put it back in the garage! Things I never thought of... Phew! Close one! I have NO urge to be on the news explaining my cache!

 

------------------

Kent

Harrisonburg, VA

macdaddymd@aol.com

[Guest whidbeywalk]

After following this thread for a few day I have come to a couple of conclusions, at least for my own caches that I think will prevent them from being viewed as anything dangerous. First, Tupperware is less suspicious than an ammo can. Second, I will ensure that there is nothing near the cache that could be perceived as a target (i.e. building, bridge or tunnel). If someone happens across one of my caches I hope that they take a second to think: ?Why would someone place a bomb in a Tupperware container then place it inside a rotting stump in the middle of the woods??

 

Although, now that I think about it??.if I had happened across a geocache before I knew what Geocaching was, I might have thought someone was hiding drugs or something like that. Sorry, didn?t mean to go in a different direction.

[Guest ggaspari]

quote:

---

Originally posted by whidbeywalk:

First, Tupperware is less suspicious than an ammo can. Second, I will ensure that there is nothing near the cache that could be perceived as a target (i.e. building, bridge or tunnel). If someone happens across one of my caches I hope that they take a second to think: ?Why would someone place a bomb in a Tupperware container then place it inside a rotting stump in the middle of the woods??

---

 

There was actually a guy who was selling a "kit" to make a bucket look like a tree stump. Since the clear tupperware approach seems to not work sometimes, maybe the OPPOSITE direction (completely camouflage the cache) could be a way to go. I think he has a page in geocities, but I simply don't remember the url. It is posted somewhere in this forum ("the unusual"), though.

 

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Lieutenant Gaspari - MD

 

[This message has been edited by ggaspari (edited 12 November 2001).]

[Guest ggaspari]

is posted somewhere in this forum ("the unusual"), though.

 

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Lieutenant Gaspari - MD

 

[This message has been edited by ggaspari (edited 12 November 2001).]

[Guest arffer]

tered "Tut-tut, bet you wish it looked like rain..."

 

------------------

Team CacheCows of Wisconsin

 

[This message has been edited by arffer (edited 14 November 2001).]

[Guest arffer]

quote:

---

There was actually a guy who was selling a "kit" to make a bucket look like a tree stump. Since the clear tupperware approach seems to not work sometimes, maybe the OPPOSITE direction (completely camouflage the cache) could be a way to go.

---

 

Dateline November 14th, 2001 - Hundred Acre Wood

 

Rabbit's police squad was contacted today after a smallish yellow bear was seen acting suspiciously around a tree stump. This bear was reported to have been trying to get to something apparently hidden away inside the stump.

 

Rabbit's police called in Gopher's Excavation Experts to blow up the stump, saying they were acting on the side of caution in case this stump presented a hazard to the inhabitants of the Hundred Acre Wood.

 

Upon the destruction of the stump, all involved were sprayed with a sticky yellow substance. Anthrax was originally suspected, but it was later identified as honey. As those involved were attempting to remove the sticky substance, the yellow bear wandered back into the area, and muttered "Tut-tut, bet you wish it looked like rain..."

 

------------------

Team CacheCows of Wisconsin

 

[This message has been edited by arffer (edited 14 November 2001).]

[Guest treemoss2]

Placing a cache is not an illegal activity. We should remmeber that and not let any caching paranoia happen anymore than the paranoia that leads to authorities blowing up clear containers.

At the most I would imagine that littering or trespass (non-crimal) would be the most that they could throw at a geocacher.

And 'suspicious activity" is only an opinion from one side.