Religious Material in GeoCaches

[+Ethankwolfe]

Recently, and especially in big cities, I've started noticing religious pamphlets shoved into caches. Anything from flyers for a local church, to business cards that say "I'm a Mormon" with a number to call. I've even found one with one of those cheap little "you're going to burn an here's why" leaflets folded up and stuffed in.

 

Really? Come on, guys, this is a hobby. Nobody wants to find religious material in their cache. Especially since those caches have precious little room as it is! I'll admit right now, I yank that stuff out and throw it away any time I find it. It simply doesn't belong there.

 

Anyone else notice this sort of thing? What kinds of locations do you usually see it happen in?

[+Snoogans]

I'm agnostic. This never bothered me. In fact, I collect the burn in hell tracts. They are usually Chick tracts. Very campy to someone like me. My car sports a Darwin fish so I often get targeted with Chick tracts. Love, love, love 'em.

[+Ethankwolfe]

I'm agnostic. This never bothered me. In fact, I collect the burn in hell tracts. They are usually Chick tracts. Very campy to someone like me. My car sports a Darwin fish so I often get targeted with Chick tracts. Love, love, love 'em.

 

Hey don't get me wrong, those tracts are hilarious. I just make sure to pull 'em out when they're in a cache. It's less of a "religious material offends my delicate sensibilities" thing and more of a "this is neither the time nor the place" thing.

[+K13]

Do you also remove sales coupons from caches? What about the business cards of Plumbers or Safety Advisors or other professions? Would you remove the pamphlet if it promoted something you personally believe or promote?

 

It is likely that those who place this type of material believe that anytime and any place is the appropriate one for spreading the Word.

[+Snoogans]

I'm agnostic. This never bothered me. In fact, I collect the burn in hell tracts. They are usually Chick tracts. Very campy to someone like me. My car sports a Darwin fish so I often get targeted with Chick tracts. Love, love, love 'em.

 

Hey don't get me wrong, those tracts are hilarious. I just make sure to pull 'em out when they're in a cache. It's less of a "religious material offends my delicate sensibilities" thing and more of a "this is neither the time nor the place" thing.

I really don't see it that way. I'm very outspoken on my lack of reliance on a Big Sky Daddy to solve my problems, provide for me, or make me do the right thing. Why shouldn't believers be able to do the same? I once found about 50 of the same tract in one of my caches. I took out all but the last 2 or 3. I saved them to give to the folks that come to my door to sell me on their Big Sky Daddy sect.

 

Here's a Snoogans cache tract.

Edited June 3, 2014 by Snoogans

[+Ethankwolfe]

Do you also remove sales coupons from caches? What about the business cards of Plumbers or Safety Advisors or other professions? Would you remove the pamphlet if it promoted something you personally believe or promote?

 

It is likely that those who place this type of material believe that anytime and any place is the appropriate one for spreading the Word.

 

Anyone can use a plumber. Not everyone wants to be inundated about religion when there are so many religions out there to not want to be a part of.

 

And yeah, if there was a pamphlet in a cache about agnosticism I'd pull that out, too. I'm not so selfish that I see geocaches as my own personal soapboxes.

 

Also, you can believe that anytime and any place is the right time to tell people about religion, but that doesn't mean you should walk up to strangers on the street and just start walking about Yahweh or Jesus or Muhammad. Geocaching isn't the place to propagate your religion, is my point. Well-meaning though you may be.

[4wheelin_fool]

It's not much different than advertising coupons or business cards. Some people like to find them, so I just ignore it.

 

People who clean the stuff out to protect others, are not much different than the people putting the stuff in there, who are trying to protect those that they believe are going to burn in hades.

 

There seems to be an implied level of assumed judgment with the literature which offends people. Ironically, they are instructed not to judge anyone, except those who will be sent to the pit of eternal torture for not chanting the magic words. After reading the book very carefully, I'm fairly certain I know exactly who is supposed to be judged..

[+K13]

Geocaching isn't the place to propagate your religion, is my point. Well-meaning though you may be.

 

I feel the same way about any sales coupons and business cards I find in caches. I'm not likely to buy a house from that agent whose card I found in a cache, nor am I likely to use the 10% off from McBurgerTown.

I do not feel it is my responsibility to remove that material, however. The next finder may feel a need for one of those offers, and I don't want the responsibility of having deprived them of that offer.

[+TriciaG]

Ironically, they are instructed not to judge anyone

Not to turn this into a religious argument, but Christianity does not believe you're not supposed to judge anyone. I can't speak of the other religions.

 

I could say a lot about this topic (such as why Christians can't shut up and keep their religion to themselves) but I'd rather not get into a debate about it. Suffice it to say on the topic of geocaching, that such items aren't forbidden in caches, so people will put them in. Feel free to snicker, cuss, remove them, or whatever.

[+Ethankwolfe]

Ironically, they are instructed not to judge anyone

...Suffice it to say on the topic of geocaching, that such items aren't forbidden in caches, so people will put them in. Feel free to snicker, cuss, remove them, or whatever.

 

Oh yeah, I'm not trying to get the rules amended or anything, I know people are going to keep doing it. I just think it's rude, is all, to put them there in the first place. We're here to explore and have some fun. If we wanted to find religion, we'd go do that. We know where they keep the books.

 

But I'll continue to yank 'em out, and that'll be my sort of balance I guess.

[+narcissa]

This is something I've noticed from day one when I first started geocaching nine years ago. CITO.

[+Snoogans]

Ironically, they are instructed not to judge anyone

...Suffice it to say on the topic of geocaching, that such items aren't forbidden in caches, so people will put them in. Feel free to snicker, cuss, remove them, or whatever.

 

But I'll continue to yank 'em out, and that'll be my sort of balance I guess.

 

This right here is the best advice on the thread so far:

 

It's not much different than advertising coupons or business cards. Some people like to find them, so I just ignore it.

 

People who clean the stuff out to protect others, are not much different than the people putting the stuff in there, who are trying to protect those that they believe are going to burn in hades.

 

There seems to be an implied level of assumed judgment with the literature which offends people. Ironically, they are instructed not to judge anyone, except those who will be sent to the pit of eternal torture for not chanting the magic words. After reading the book very carefully, I'm fairly certain I know exactly who is supposed to be judged..

[+SwineFlew]

I know a guy around here that put religion swag in every caches he can. Some caches are so full and I have to deal with extra baggage. If I cant put everything back in within reasonable time... something is heading for the garbage can.

 

Its not religion things that bug me, its the attitude of some people think they got to push their belief everywhere they go.

[+Ethankwolfe]

This right here is the best advice on the thread so far:

 

...People who clean the stuff out to protect others, are not much different than the people putting the stuff in there, who are trying to protect those that they believe are going to burn in hades...

 

By that logic, if nobody were putting them in caches then I wouldn't be pulling them out and nobody would be at fault.

 

-shrug-

[+Ethankwolfe]

...Its not religion things that bug me, its the attitude of some people think they got to push their belief everywhere they go.

 

This, this is exactly what it is. It's not religion specifically, it's people who see a geocache and say, "Yes, this is the place for me to proselytize."

 

I just don't understand that outlook. It seems narcissistic. Maybe I'm wrong.

[+Snoogans]

Anti-religion is a religion that must be maintained every day lest the anti-religioso become offended in thyne eye and heart and almighty mind. At least it appears that way to those of us on the path of Agnostic Jihad.

 

Theism is no different amongst those that don't practice it in their closets as they were instructed.

 

There is a constant war of words and ideology amongst theists and anti-thists. Agnostic Jihadis like me find it all terribly entertaining. Many smug superior feelings are in the offing.

 

Geocaching is not exempt. People are what they are.

 

This message brought to you by the letter A and the letter J.

[+Ethankwolfe]

Anti-religion is a religion that must be maintained every day lest the anti-religioso become offended in thyne eye and heart and almighty mind. At least it appears that way to those of us on the path of Agnostic Jihad.

 

Theism is no different amongst those that don't practice it in their closets as they were instructed.

 

There is a constant war of words and ideology amongst theists and anti-thists. Agnostic Jihadis like me find it all terribly entertaining. Many smug superior feelings are in the offing.

 

Geocaching is not exempt. People are what they are.

 

This message brought to you by the letter A and the letter J.

 

Sounds like you might be the one with the smug superior feelings, to be honest. :/

[+Snoogans]

Anti-religion is a religion that must be maintained every day lest the anti-religioso become offended in thyne eye and heart and almighty mind. At least it appears that way to those of us on the path of Agnostic Jihad.

 

Theism is no different amongst those that don't practice it in their closets as they were instructed.

 

There is a constant war of words and ideology amongst theists and anti-thists. Agnostic Jihadis like me find it all terribly entertaining. Many smug superior feelings are in the offing.

 

Geocaching is not exempt. People are what they are.

 

This message brought to you by the letter A and the letter J.

 

Sounds like you might be the one with the smug superior feelings, to be honest. :/

Of course. I just stated such. You are bemoaning scraps of paper in repurposed peanut butter jars.

[+Ethankwolfe]

Anti-religion is a religion that must be maintained every day lest the anti-religioso become offended in thyne eye and heart and almighty mind. At least it appears that way to those of us on the path of Agnostic Jihad.

 

Theism is no different amongst those that don't practice it in their closets as they were instructed.

 

There is a constant war of words and ideology amongst theists and anti-thists. Agnostic Jihadis like me find it all terribly entertaining. Many smug superior feelings are in the offing.

 

Geocaching is not exempt. People are what they are.

 

This message brought to you by the letter A and the letter J.

 

Sounds like you might be the one with the smug superior feelings, to be honest. :/

Of course. I just stated such. You are bemoaning scraps of paper in repurposed peanut butter jars.

 

Yeah, I guess we could just simplify everything down until we've removed all of the context and made it ridiculous. Pamphlets are just scraps of paper. Geocaches are just repurposed peanut butter jars. Nothing means anything, and involvement or investment is laughable.

 

You're 100% right.

[+narcissa]

As far as I'm concerned, geocaching just isn't the place for this stuff. Why take something lighthearted and fun, and turn it into something contentious and divisive?

 

I don't want anybody to feel offended or alienated by something I've placed in a geocache. I certainly wouldn't want a parent to open up a geocache and feel like it wasn't appropriate for their kids because of something I dropped off. That's how those materials make me feel, and I just don't understand what kind of person wants me to feel like that when I'm geocaching. It makes me really sad.

[+SwineFlew]

As far as I'm concerned, geocaching just isn't the place for this stuff. Why take something lighthearted and fun, and turn it into something contentious and divisive?

 

I don't want anybody to feel offended or alienated by something I've placed in a geocache. I certainly wouldn't want a parent to open up a geocache and feel like it wasn't appropriate for their kids because of something I dropped off. That's how those materials make me feel, and I just don't understand what kind of person wants me to feel like that when I'm geocaching. It makes me really sad.

And those are people that will say you got a guilty conscience. Its Jesus knocking on your door.

[+narcissa]

As far as I'm concerned, geocaching just isn't the place for this stuff. Why take something lighthearted and fun, and turn it into something contentious and divisive?

 

I don't want anybody to feel offended or alienated by something I've placed in a geocache. I certainly wouldn't want a parent to open up a geocache and feel like it wasn't appropriate for their kids because of something I dropped off. That's how those materials make me feel, and I just don't understand what kind of person wants me to feel like that when I'm geocaching. It makes me really sad.

And those are people that will say you got a guilty conscience. Its Jesus knocking on your door.

 

Oh, okay.

[+The Leprechauns]

Recently, and especially in big cities, I've started noticing religious pamphlets shoved into caches. Anything from flyers for a local church, to business cards that say "I'm a Mormon" with a number to call. I've even found one with one of those cheap little "you're going to burn an here's why" leaflets folded up and stuffed in.

 

Really? Come on, guys, this is a hobby. Nobody wants to find religious material in their cache. Especially since those caches have precious little room as it is! I'll admit right now, I yank that stuff out and throw it away any time I find it. It simply doesn't belong there.

 

Anyone else notice this sort of thing? What kinds of locations do you usually see it happen in?

Religious materials in caches has been a recurring forum topic for more than a decade. So, not sure about "recently." I'm also not sure about "especially in big cities" since the "Bible Belt" is just as strong or stronger in rural areas and small towns.

 

As a veteran geocacher, I rarely trade for anything anymore. Find cache, sign log, leave the toys for the kiddies. As a Christian geocacher, the ONE type of trade item that will attract my attention is a religious-themed item. If you are removing these items, then you should be leaving something of equal or greater value. (Exceptions to this: if the pamphlet or business card is moldy/wet/ruined, trash it out, and if there are 43 tracts in a cache that can only hold five, remove the excess so that the cache can shut and seal properly.)

 

Another commonly encountered trade item is alcohol-related swag. Beer coasters. Branded keychains. Business cards for local bars. And so on and so forth. As a non-drinker who's opposed to the promotion of alcohol, is it OK for me to simply remove these common items? Can I "yank that stuff out and throw it away any time I find it" because "it simply doesn't belong there?"

 

The answer, of course, is "no." Other geocachers would enjoy trading for that Budweiser belt buckle or Miller Lite bottle opener, so I leave those items alone. Could you please do the same when you encounter religious items?

 

Ultimately the governing standard on trade items is set forth in the "Cache Contents" section of the Listing Guidelines:

Contents are family-friendly.

 

Explosives, fireworks, ammunition, lighters, knives (including pocket knives and multi-tools), drugs, alcohol and any illicit material should not be placed in a cache. Geocaching is a family-friendly activity and cache contents should be suitable for all ages.

If someone other than you places an inappropriate item in a cache that you own and this is reported, the cache may be temporarily disabled. As the cache owner, you may be asked to remove the questionable item before the cache listing is re-enabled.

 

Contents are appropriate for outdoor life.

 

Food items or scented items are inappropriate and disallowed. Animals have a keen sense of smell and have been known to destroy containers to get to these items. Items that may melt in the heat, such as crayons or lip balm, or expand in the cold, such as liquids, should also be excluded from caches.

I don't see anything there about religious items.

[+DadOf6Furrballs]

As a card-carrying Pastafarian, I've been tempted to toss a promotional spaghetti noodle into a cache now and then. But there's that "no food" clause in the guidelines, so I've always refrained.

[+SwineFlew]

As far as I'm concerned, geocaching just isn't the place for this stuff. Why take something lighthearted and fun, and turn it into something contentious and divisive?

 

I don't want anybody to feel offended or alienated by something I've placed in a geocache. I certainly wouldn't want a parent to open up a geocache and feel like it wasn't appropriate for their kids because of something I dropped off. That's how those materials make me feel, and I just don't understand what kind of person wants me to feel like that when I'm geocaching. It makes me really sad.

And those are people that will say you got a guilty conscience. Its Jesus knocking on your door.

 

Oh, okay.

I was being funny and mocking those kind of people... I find them very annoying. I am agnostic and I don't care what people believe, but just keep them to yourself because I do.

 

I feel that geocaching and religion dont go together. Some people feel "God" is telling them that they need to "spread the words"...they take that to extreme.

[+Ethankwolfe]

Recently, and especially in big cities, I've started noticing religious pamphlets shoved into caches. Anything from flyers for a local church, to business cards that say "I'm a Mormon" with a number to call. I've even found one with one of those cheap little "you're going to burn an here's why" leaflets folded up and stuffed in.

 

Really? Come on, guys, this is a hobby. Nobody wants to find religious material in their cache. Especially since those caches have precious little room as it is! I'll admit right now, I yank that stuff out and throw it away any time I find it. It simply doesn't belong there.

 

Anyone else notice this sort of thing? What kinds of locations do you usually see it happen in?

Religious materials in caches has been a recurring forum topic for more than a decade. So, not sure about "recently." I'm also not sure about "especially in big cities" since the "Bible Belt" is just as strong or stronger in rural areas and small towns.

 

As a veteran geocacher, I rarely trade for anything anymore. Find cache, sign log, leave the toys for the kiddies. As a Christian geocacher, the ONE type of trade item that will attract my attention is a religious-themed item. If you are removing these items, then you should be leaving something of equal or greater value. (Exceptions to this: if the pamphlet or business card is moldy/wet/ruined, trash it out, and if there are 43 tracts in a cache that can only hold five, remove the excess so that the cache can shut and seal properly.)

 

Another commonly encountered trade item is alcohol-related swag. Beer coasters. Branded keychains. Business cards for local bars. And so on and so forth. As a non-drinker who's opposed to the promotion of alcohol, is it OK for me to simply remove these common items? Can I "yank that stuff out and throw it away any time I find it" because "it simply doesn't belong there?"

 

The answer, of course, is "no." Other geocachers would enjoy trading for that Budweiser belt buckle or Miller Lite bottle opener, so I leave those items alone. Could you please do the same when you encounter religious items?

 

Ultimately the governing standard on trade items is set forth in the "Cache Contents" section of the Listing Guidelines:

Contents are family-friendly.

 

Explosives, fireworks, ammunition, lighters, knives (including pocket knives and multi-tools), drugs, alcohol and any illicit material should not be placed in a cache. Geocaching is a family-friendly activity and cache contents should be suitable for all ages.

If someone other than you places an inappropriate item in a cache that you own and this is reported, the cache may be temporarily disabled. As the cache owner, you may be asked to remove the questionable item before the cache listing is re-enabled.

 

Contents are appropriate for outdoor life.

 

Food items or scented items are inappropriate and disallowed. Animals have a keen sense of smell and have been known to destroy containers to get to these items. Items that may melt in the heat, such as crayons or lip balm, or expand in the cold, such as liquids, should also be excluded from caches.

I don't see anything there about religious items.

 

Nobody said it was against the rules. I've already stated, in fact, that it isn't. All I'm saying is that it's rude, it's pushy, and it's not the place.

 

Also, religious pamphlets aren't trade items as far as I'm concerned. If it were a rosary, or a neat little crucifix, something that someone would want that wasn't just an advertisement, then I would never remove that. But the pamphlets? I don't feel the need to trade anything for those.

[+Snoogans]

Anti-religion is a religion that must be maintained every day lest the anti-religioso become offended in thyne eye and heart and almighty mind. At least it appears that way to those of us on the path of Agnostic Jihad.

 

Theism is no different amongst those that don't practice it in their closets as they were instructed.

 

There is a constant war of words and ideology amongst theists and anti-thists. Agnostic Jihadis like me find it all terribly entertaining. Many smug superior feelings are in the offing.

 

Geocaching is not exempt. People are what they are.

 

This message brought to you by the letter A and the letter J.

 

Sounds like you might be the one with the smug superior feelings, to be honest. :/

Of course. I just stated such. You are bemoaning scraps of paper in repurposed peanut butter jars.

 

Yeah, I guess we could just simplify everything down until we've removed all of the context and made it ridiculous. Pamphlets are just scraps of paper. Geocaches are just repurposed peanut butter jars. Nothing means anything, and involvement or investment is laughable.

 

You're 100% right.

Not at all. That is my perspective after 11.5 years experience. Your mileage may vary...

[jholly]

 

As a veteran geocacher, I rarely trade for anything anymore. Find cache, sign log, leave the toys for the kiddies. As a Christian geocacher, the ONE type of trade item that will attract my attention is a religious-themed item. If you are removing these items, then you should be leaving something of equal or greater value.

 

I've thinking about it and Lep is right you should trade for those religious pamphlets. I'm thinking about getting some nice Islamic or Buddhism pamphlets and using those for trade items for the Christian pamphlets. And when I find a cache with an Islamic pamphlets I can use the Christian pamphlets I've been collecting.

 

But I'm still struggling on what would be a good trade item for a condom.

[+The Leprechauns]

 

As a veteran geocacher, I rarely trade for anything anymore. Find cache, sign log, leave the toys for the kiddies. As a Christian geocacher, the ONE type of trade item that will attract my attention is a religious-themed item. If you are removing these items, then you should be leaving something of equal or greater value.

 

I've thinking about it and Lep is right you should trade for those religious pamphlets. I'm thinking about getting some nice Islamic or Buddhism pamphlets and using those for trade items for the Christian pamphlets. And when I find a cache with an Islamic pamphlets I can use the Christian pamphlets I've been collecting.

That's entirely fair. I'm sure that wimseyguy will be along shortly to post about his Sweet Potato Tracts.

 

But I'm still struggling on what would be a good trade item for a condom.

A flyer for a daycare center or a babysitting service.

[+narcissa]

But I'm still struggling on what would be a good trade item for a condom.

A flyer for a daycare center or a babysitting service.

 

[etarace]

Recently, and especially in big cities, I've started noticing religious pamphlets shoved into caches. Anything from flyers for a local church, to business cards that say "I'm a Mormon" with a number to call. I've even found one with one of those cheap little "you're going to burn an here's why" leaflets folded up and stuffed in.

 

Really? Come on, guys, this is a hobby. Nobody wants to find religious material in their cache. Especially since those caches have precious little room as it is! I'll admit right now, I yank that stuff out and throw it away any time I find it. It simply doesn't belong there.

 

Anyone else notice this sort of thing? What kinds of locations do you usually see it happen in?

 

As a veteran geocacher, I rarely trade for anything anymore. Find cache, sign log, leave the toys for the kiddies. As a Christian geocacher, the ONE type of trade item that will attract my attention is a religious-themed item. If you are removing these items, then you should be leaving something of equal or greater value. (Exceptions to this: if the pamphlet or business card is moldy/wet/ruined, trash it out, and if there are 43 tracts in a cache that can only hold five, remove the excess so that the cache can shut and seal properly.)

 

Another commonly encountered trade item is alcohol-related swag. Beer coasters. Branded keychains. Business cards for local bars. And so on and so forth. As a non-drinker who's opposed to the promotion of alcohol, is it OK for me to simply remove these common items? Can I "yank that stuff out and throw it away any time I find it" because "it simply doesn't belong there?"

 

The answer, of course, is "no." Other geocachers would enjoy trading for that Budweiser belt buckle or Miller Lite bottle opener, so I leave those items alone. Could you please do the same when you encounter religious items?

 

Ultimately the governing standard on trade items is set forth in the "Cache Contents" section of the Listing Guidelines:

 

I sort of agree with Leprechauns here. I am a Christian, and if I see a nice piece of Christian-themed swag, I will trade for it. I am "offended" by a perfectly good ammo can that has used McToys and 3-wheeled matchbox cars shoved to the brim. I am equally offended by a cache being stuffed full of pamphlets.

[+Ethankwolfe]

As I said, I would never remove actual swag, actual trade items, just for being religiously-themed. I'm speaking specifically about pamphlets, tracts, and religious "business cards" that are really just one of the former items in disguise.

[etarace]

As I said, I would never remove actual swag, actual trade items, just for being religiously-themed. I'm speaking specifically about pamphlets, tracts, and religious "business cards" that are really just one of the former items in disguise.

If you're the type of person who cleans out "geo junk" (used McToys and 3-wheeled matchbox cars and broken necklaces) then I don't have a problem with you clearing out 50 pamphlets that are really just taking up space. If you take out one tract (that is in decent condition, and somebody might find either amusing or enlightening) yet leave one similar-sized cereal-box-comic book... then, that's just kind of wrong.

[+Ethankwolfe]

As I said, I would never remove actual swag, actual trade items, just for being religiously-themed. I'm speaking specifically about pamphlets, tracts, and religious "business cards" that are really just one of the former items in disguise.

If you're the type of person who cleans out "geo junk" (used McToys and 3-wheeled matchbox cars and broken necklaces) then I don't have a problem with you clearing out 50 pamphlets that are really just taking up space. If you take out one tract (that is in decent condition, and somebody might find either amusing or enlightening) yet leave one similar-sized cereal-box-comic book... then, that's just kind of wrong.

 

I stalwartly disagree.

[+repcosy]

I shall first of all start off by saying I'm in the uk. I have no faiths or beliefs. If I saw a pamphlet about religion I would properly just choose to dismiss it.

 

We regularly get people knocking on our doors in This country forcing religion upon you and the pamphlet on you. This I don't like. I like to have the option. If I go geocaching and see it... At least it gives me the choice as to whether I should leave it in or not. Personally I wouldn't put leaflets in... I don't really see a difference between a religion put there pamphlet in and me putting one in for my company, but I wouldn't do that.

 

[etarace]

As I said, I would never remove actual swag, actual trade items, just for being religiously-themed. I'm speaking specifically about pamphlets, tracts, and religious "business cards" that are really just one of the former items in disguise.

If you're the type of person who cleans out "geo junk" (used McToys and 3-wheeled matchbox cars and broken necklaces) then I don't have a problem with you clearing out 50 pamphlets that are really just taking up space. If you take out one tract (that is in decent condition, and somebody might find either amusing or enlightening) yet leave one similar-sized cereal-box-comic book... then, that's just kind of wrong.

 

I stalwartly disagree.

Then you lose, and you're a hypocrite.

 

As pointed out by others, there are items we all find in geocaches which are useless/offensive/dumb in our personal opinions (half sheets of Pony stickers, baseball cards, free drink tokens) so we just ignore them and leave them there for somebody who might actually find a use for them.

Nobody is forcing me to read the stats on the back of a baseball card. Nobody is forcing you (or anyone) to read a religious tract. The person who placed the item gives anyone who finds it the option of looking at it or trading for it: you also have the option to ignore it. By removing it (without trading) you are refusing that "option" to anyone else who comes to the cache after you. I don't remove sports-themed items simply because I don't like sports. It wouldn't cross my mind to seek these items out in caches and remove them, or to complain about them being placed in a cache.

I don't tend to go to the same cache twice, do you? You're not likely to come across those same tracts again if you left them alone. It's not like it's photos of aborted fetuses or something. (**Disclaimer, no offense to the aborted fetus photographers**) Just ignore them. They didn't bother you, you shouldn't bother them.

By removing items (which follow guidelines and are in decent condition) from a cache you are acting as a censor for all who come behind you.

[+wimseyguy]

 

As a veteran geocacher, I rarely trade for anything anymore. Find cache, sign log, leave the toys for the kiddies. As a Christian geocacher, the ONE type of trade item that will attract my attention is a religious-themed item. If you are removing these items, then you should be leaving something of equal or greater value.

 

I've thinking about it and Lep is right you should trade for those religious pamphlets. I'm thinking about getting some nice Islamic or Buddhism pamphlets and using those for trade items for the Christian pamphlets. And when I find a cache with an Islamic pamphlets I can use the Christian pamphlets I've been collecting.

That's entirely fair. I'm sure that wimseyguy will be along shortly to post about his Sweet Potato Tracts.

 

 

Sorry for the delay, but I was out of the house most of the day running errands and riding my bike along the Neuse River Trail finding a few caches too. Lep is correct, I like to trade for religious pamphlets with my NC Sweet Potato Tracts. Sweet potatoes are delicious, nutritious, and the official State Vegetable too! They can be used in baking, salads, soups, even desserts!

 

So please make sure you are trading fairly if you opt to remove religious tracts from caches.

[etarace]

 

Sorry for the delay, but I was out of the house most of the day running errands and riding my bike along the Neuse River Trail finding a few caches too. Lep is correct, I like to trade for religious pamphlets with my NC Sweet Potato Tracts. Sweet potatoes are delicious, nutritious, and the official State Vegetable too! They can be used in baking, salads, soups, even desserts!

 

So please make sure you are trading fairly if you opt to remove religious tracts from caches.

I really hope that your pamphlets point out the difference between sweet potatoes and yams. When people interchange these two, it annoys me nearly as much as when people call a muskmelon a cantaloupe.

[+SwineFlew]

 

As a veteran geocacher, I rarely trade for anything anymore. Find cache, sign log, leave the toys for the kiddies. As a Christian geocacher, the ONE type of trade item that will attract my attention is a religious-themed item. If you are removing these items, then you should be leaving something of equal or greater value.

 

I've thinking about it and Lep is right you should trade for those religious pamphlets. I'm thinking about getting some nice Islamic or Buddhism pamphlets and using those for trade items for the Christian pamphlets. And when I find a cache with an Islamic pamphlets I can use the Christian pamphlets I've been collecting.

That's entirely fair. I'm sure that wimseyguy will be along shortly to post about his Sweet Potato Tracts.

 

 

Sorry for the delay, but I was out of the house most of the day running errands and riding my bike along the Neuse River Trail finding a few caches too. Lep is correct, I like to trade for religious pamphlets with my NC Sweet Potato Tracts. Sweet potatoes are delicious, nutritious, and the official State Vegetable too! They can be used in baking, salads, soups, even desserts!

 

So please make sure you are trading fairly if you opt to remove religious tracts from caches.

If the cache is so full, no, I wont trade fairly. If its a large cache with plenty of room, I leave them there.

 

What I dont like is those religion people think its ok to put something about religion in every cache when there is really no room for them. That's where my problem is at. Most of them are paper or very thick paper that will get wet in a hurry. I had see them in thick plastic baggie right along with another plastic baggie for the log sheet in a mirco.(just think what will happen on a very windy day?!?!?!?) Blah... Its not just one, but everyone of them that they find. Annoying. Nothing against religion. However, they seem to be the worse when it comes to stuffing the cache container so full.

 

If I pull out a log sheet with a over size baggie and if anything fall out, I will move those extra things that fall out into another larger cache nearby. In high muggle area, I want to do it fast and smooth without fighting to get everything back in. A lot of time I find swags outside of caches because they were so full and they fell out.

[+TriciaG]

I hardly ever find caches full of swag. The only exception is micros that people jam a little trinket into, just because it "fits."

[jholly]

I hardly ever find caches full of swag. The only exception is micros that people jam a little trinket into, just because it "fits."

Doesn't that just frost your doughnuts?

 

Believe or not, I have found two nanos with trade items in them. I was flabbergasted. I will take a tongue lashing from Lep because I took them with out trading because they were preventing the lid from screwing on all the way. Will it even things up if I swap two or three broken McToys for the three wheel hot wheel in the next couple smalls I find? I'm fresh out of moldy business cards.

[+The_Incredibles_]

I take the pamphlets out and use them as TP. Waste not, want not.

[+Ethankwolfe]

Then you lose

 

This isn't a contest. There's no winner here, and no loser. I'm not changing the rules, and I'm not telling you what to do. I'm saying I find it troublesome, and I'm asking if others have encountered similar issues (which lo and behold, they have!).

 

I don't imagine that my pointing out these problems are going to change anyone's behavior. I'm not here to convince you that you're wrong. I'm here to discuss this, and explain why I don't like it (to no particular end. This is, after all, a forum). You're here to express a dissenting opinion and that's fine, but don't pretend you get to slam down a gavel and "win".

[+kunarion]

I take the pamphlets out and use them as TP. Waste not, want not.

What did you put into the container in trade? Oh. Wait. Don't answer. I just now got a mental picture that I need to go purge from my brain.

[+wimseyguy]

I take the pamphlets out and use them as TP. Waste not, want not.

What did you put into the container in trade? Oh. Wait. Don't answer. I just now got a mental picture that I need to go purge from my brain.

 

Here ya go!

[jholly]

I take the pamphlets out and use them as TP. Waste not, want not.

Don't the staples hurt?

[etarace]

 

This isn't a contest. There's no winner here, and no loser. I'm not changing the rules, and I'm not telling you what to do. I'm saying I find it troublesome, and I'm asking if others have encountered similar issues (which lo and behold, they have!).

 

I don't imagine that my pointing out these problems are going to change anyone's behavior. I'm not here to convince you that you're wrong. I'm here to discuss this, and explain why I don't like it (to no particular end. This is, after all, a forum). You're here to express a dissenting opinion and that's fine, but don't pretend you get to slam down a gavel and "win".

Of course others "notice" it, and have since the beginning of the game. Your implied question was "does this bother other people?" You had two people (myself and Leprechauns) who not only are not bothered by it, but sometimes like finding them. There are a handful of people who are specifically annoyed by them, but generally decide to ignore them. Most people barely notice or care about them, and it falls under all the other trinkets that they chose not to trade for in the cache.

The main time people have a "problem" with them is if somebody shoves 43 pamphlets in where it simply does not fit. In this case it is the same frustration if they were old romance novels, free drink coupons, or bead-necklaces in film canisters. The fact that they are religious material has little or no bearing on the annoyance. But this issue is not the "troublesome" smattering of tracts you have encountered.

I never pretended to say "I win" and I don't place the tracts, so your ire isn't really aimed at me.

I pointed out that CITO-ing a cache for over-stuffing and damaged items is one thing; but to remove (without trading) a specific single item from a geocache while overlooking a similar item that doesn't have the topic you personally dislike is hypocritical, and you are making yourself into a censor for cachers who follow you.

Edited June 4, 2014 by etarace

[etarace]

those cheap little "you're going to burn an here's why" leaflets

 

I take the pamphlets out and use them as TP. Waste not, want not.

Don't the staples hurt?

 

The "you're going to burn" leaflets can be used as fire starting material. Make sure to trade fairly.

[+The_Incredibles_]

I take the pamphlets out and use them as TP. Waste not, want not.

Don't the staples hurt?

 

Only if you do it right.

[+Ambrosia]

Some of you have found enough caches with tracts to get quite frustrated with it. On the other hand, I don't think I've ever found a religious tract in a cache. It's possible that I have and have already forgotten about it.