New log email format

[+The A-Team]

Has anyone else seen this? I just got a log email and the format has been changed again. The header and footer bars have been expanded and are much more intrusive with brighter #00B265 and #02874D colours, the font size has been increased from 14px to 16px, and the line height has been increased to 30px (which spaces out the lines significantly). In addition, despite the changes being what appears to be mostly cosmetic, the message size has increased by about 15% over previous, similar emails.

 

An email that would previously have displayed in full on my monitor with room to spare, now only displays the upper 2/3 or so. Likewise, in the Gmail app on my iPhone 5s, I can now see 30% less of the message at a time and have to scroll more. If it isn't clear by now, I disagree with these changes.

 

Sigh. It's too bad time is being spent on making changes for change's sake rather than on the things that really need to be worked on.

[+unkreativ.net]

Actually I don't understand why everybody these days is not only using bloated html-email, but also embedded images that have to be loaded from a server when you try to read the mail. Plaintext is so easy to handle on every device and saves so much energy and transferred data.

[+on4bam]

Actually I don't understand why everybody these days is not only using bloated html-email, but also embedded images that have to be loaded from a server when you try to read the mail. Plaintext is so easy to handle on every device and saves so much energy and transferred data.

 

My Pegasus Mail on Windows and K-9 mail on Android do just that. Plain text. Not only is there a security risk with HTML, loading images when reading a mail also "notifies" the sender who/how/when/with what mails are read. On top of that the extra bandwidth costs extra when mobile.

[+Viajero Perdido]

Why should we now have to scroll just to see the content of the message? (The real content, after "Log:")

 

Why on Earth, Groundspeak?

[+unkreativ.net]

because design > functionality ;-)

[+JL_HSTRE]

Larger font may have been requested. Many geocachers are older folks with not-so-great eyesight.

 

As much as I like the color green, I'm not a big fan of the garish green used in the new email header and footer.

[+Path Pacer]

Actually I don't understand why everybody these days is not only using bloated html-email, but also embedded images that have to be loaded from a server when you try to read the mail. Plaintext is so easy to handle on every device and saves so much energy and transferred data.

Not only that, but my GPS downloads the first few logs as well as the cache data. Trying to read those jumbled-up logs on a tiny screen isn't helpful.

[knowschad]

I noticed the washed-out color difference. Everything at Groundspeak seems to be becoming paler recently, it seems. While it is one more unnecessary change, it doesn't really bother me as long as they don't mess with the wording of the subject of the message and mess up my email rules again. That one is still p*ssing me off.

[+Viajero Perdido]

Larger font may have been requested.

They can't use that excuse. Anybody wishing bigger text can simply increase the font in their email client. Ctrl-plus often does it, but by whatever means, it's there. And it's always worked brilliantly for TEXT emails (cough!), let alone the over-formatted fancy ones from Groundspeak.

 

The signal-to-noise ratio is going down. Why, Groundspeak?

[+Mudfrog]

Seems like they're trying to run folks off with these goofy changes. It's not the end of the world but it is silly that i now have to scroll down to see the important part of the email.

 

And nooo, i doubt anyone requested larger font. If so, it'd be the first time i've ever seen Groundspeak listen to one of its customers.

[+thebruce0]

Yeah people should learn accessibility features. What GS should do is design the email content to be flexible to accomodate accessibility overrides, not force everyone to be treated as if they have bad eyesight

[+niraD]

Yeah people should learn accessibility features. What GS should do is design the email content to be flexible to accomodate accessibility overrides, not force everyone to be treated as if they have bad eyesight

And not force everyone to be treated as if they have perfect eyesight. And not force everyone to be treated as if they have a low-res display. And not force everyone to be treated as if they have a high-res display. And...

 

I know it's old fashioned, but web designers don't need to specify any font size at all. They can let the page use the reader's normal font size, whatever that might be.

[+thebruce0]

Yeah people should learn accessibility features. What GS should do is design the email content to be flexible to accomodate accessibility overrides, not force everyone to be treated as if they have bad eyesight

And not force everyone to be treated as if they have perfect eyesight. And not force everyone to be treated as if they have a low-res display. And not force everyone to be treated as if they have a high-res display. And...

 

I know it's old fashioned, but web designers don't need to specify any font size at all. They can let the page use the reader's normal font size, whatever that might be.

Yes indeed. Web design is about finding the right balance between what you want to express and how much you want to limit your viewer's ability to adjust based on preference/accessibility. It's a sliding scale. Do you disagree that in this context (email notifications), GS shouldn't treat everyone as though they have bad eyesight? I mean, this whole thread is complaining Of course, those who can't see the default would complain as you say that GS shouldn't treat everyone as though they have perfect eyesight.

 

So we have two options: 1] Default to smaller font and allow those with bad eyesight to use accessibility to enlarge the font, or 2] Default to large font and allow those with good eyesight to shrink the font.

 

Two points: a] I think it's safe to say that good eyesight people far out-number bad eyesight people, and b] GS appears to be forcing it one way anyway (though I haven't checked if accessibility features can adjust the font size).

 

So back to the point - GS should design the email formatting to be generally nice (appeal to the majority) and to allow for reasonable adjustment based on accessibility settings -- as opposed to applying and forcing a global change that affects everyone and creates an uproar.

Will they fix it in some way? Maybe

Edited January 14, 2016 by thebruce0

[+CanadianRockies]

The signal-to-noise ratio is going down. Why, Groundspeak?

Perhaps Signal is hibernating?

[+dprovan]

Yes indeed. Web design is about finding the right balance between what you want to express and how much you want to limit your viewer's ability to adjust based on preference/accessibility.

Of course, you're right, but it still makes me very sad to hear you say this. Back when the web was started, there were a wide range of capabilities for how the pages could be displayed. Think teletypes. So HTML was designed to express what needed to be conveyed, leaving it up to the equipment sitting in front of the user -- and under the user's control -- to figure out how to best display it taking into account the ability of the hardware and the user's needs. Since then, of course, it's become all about the web page designers controlling every tiny little detail, leaving nothing up to the person that actually wants to look at the page.

 

So we have two options: 1] Default to smaller font and allow those with bad eyesight to use accessibility to enlarge the font, or 2] Default to large font and allow those with good eyesight to shrink the font.

I have to laugh -- and cry -- at this statement because you don't even mention the third option: don't specify the font size at all, leaving it up to the software displaying the information. Alas, we're way past that: the easiest way to do that is to send the e-mail as plain text and leave everything about how it's displayed to the user's e-mail reader.

[+frinklabs]

No traction on this request:

 

[FEATURE] Enhance email preferences

 

So your breath should not be held waiting for a change.

[+J Grouchy]

The format doesn't bother me. I can't really bring myself to care all that much.

What DOES bother me is the fact that they apparently felt a need to change while several dozen other really good suggestions and enhancement requests sit in this imaginary queue that we're all supposed to assume they are keeping up with.

[+thebruce0]

Of course, you're right, but it still makes me very sad to hear you say this. Back when the web was started, there were a wide range of capabilities for how the pages could be displayed. Think teletypes. So HTML was designed to express what needed to be conveyed, leaving it up to the equipment sitting in front of the user -- and under the user's control -- to figure out how to best display it taking into account the ability of the hardware and the user's needs. Since then, of course, it's become all about the web page designers controlling every tiny little detail, leaving nothing up to the person that actually wants to look at the page.

Yeah web design became much more of an artistic medium than merely information presentation, so coding standards evolved to give the designer more control. Sadly, many designers (often myself included) don't take accessibility flexibility into consideration. More recently some standards attempt to address that, and some design trends (like responsive design, though more focused on flexible device capabilities), but it's really easy to fall back into a "How I see it is how I want everyone to see it" mentality. Building in responsiveness and flexibility means mmoooore testing...

 

So we have two options: 1] Default to smaller font and allow those with bad eyesight to use accessibility to enlarge the font, or 2] Default to large font and allow those with good eyesight to shrink the font.

I have to laugh -- and cry -- at this statement because you don't even mention the third option: don't specify the font size at all, leaving it up to the software displaying the information. Alas, we're way past that: the easiest way to do that is to send the e-mail as plain text and leave everything about how it's displayed to the user's e-mail reader.

heh, well if you define nothing, you often don't even get the font face you're intending (serif? sans-serif?). And, you can still define default font properties as relative to the browser standard/default; so you can define a 'smaller' font by say setting the base size to 80% or 0.8em, instead of forcing it to 20px for everyone. That's what I meant by 'small' and 'large' font. In your page design - how large is the font in relation to the rest of the content? You can default to a smaller font (per design context) and still allow for accessibility settings to alter it (or vice versa).

 

It appears here that GS is forcing a large static font - for everyone.

[+Harry Dolphin]

It's a sliding scale. Do you disagree that in this context (email notifications), GS shouldn't treat everyone as though they have bad eyesight? I mean, this whole thread is complaining Of course, those who can't see the default would complain as you say that GS shouldn't treat everyone as though they have perfect eyesight.

 

So we have two options: 1] Default to smaller font and allow those with bad eyesight to use accessibility to enlarge the font, or 2] Default to large font and allow those with good eyesight to shrink the font.

 

Two points: a] I think it's safe to say that good eyesight people far out-number bad eyesight people, and b] GS appears to be forcing it one way anyway (though I haven't checked if accessibility features can adjust the font size).

 

So back to the point - GS should design the email formatting to be generally nice (appeal to the majority) and to allow for reasonable adjustment based on accessibility settings -- as opposed to applying and forcing a global change that affects everyone and creates an uproar.

Will they fix it in some way? Maybe

 

As someone who does have vision problems (and has been known to complain about things that it affects) I had NO problem with the old 'new log e-mail'. I certainly did not complain about it! My computer terminal and keyboard are at 24", which is where my eyes are focused. (Cataract surgery: my eyes do not focus.)

The old font and format were what is common on the Internet. I was okay with it.

Now. As to the new format, I will complain about it! Not that it has anything to do with vision problems. It's ugly, and it takes up too much space. The double space between lines is useless, and takes up too much space. The new shade of green is pukey. Why make anyone scroll down when it was not necessary before?

[+lodgebarn]

That new lurid green is just horrid. As for extra spaces there have been so many of them we are conditioned now. Just pants really.

Edited January 15, 2016 by lodgebarn

[+thebruce0]

Now. As to the new format, I will complain about it! Not that it has anything to do with vision problems. It's ugly, and it takes up too much space. The double space between lines is useless, and takes up too much space. The new shade of green is pukey. Why make anyone scroll down when it was not necessary before?

heh, no argument here

whitespacewhitespacewhitespace! Someone at GS loves whitespace, as we learned in previous design updates. And it's seeping into ever-extraneous line-spacing.

[+The A-Team]

Now. As to the new format, I will complain about it! Not that it has anything to do with vision problems. It's ugly, and it takes up too much space. The double space between lines is useless, and takes up too much space. The new shade of green is pukey. Why make anyone scroll down when it was not necessary before?

heh, no argument here

whitespacewhitespacewhitespace! Someone at GS loves whitespace, as we learned in previous design updates. And it's seeping into ever-extraneous line-spacing.

White space, low-contrast colours, and a near-total aversion to using black.

[+SwineFlew]

GS, can you give us a solid reason of why you made this move?

 

Yes its ugly. And this forum is still ugly. Too much white.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Now. As to the new format, I will complain about it! Not that it has anything to do with vision problems. It's ugly, and it takes up too much space. The double space between lines is useless, and takes up too much space. The new shade of green is pukey. Why make anyone scroll down when it was not necessary before?

heh, no argument here

whitespacewhitespacewhitespace! Someone at GS loves whitespace, as we learned in previous design updates. And it's seeping into ever-extraneous line-spacing.

 

Wheatgrass green is the new black.

[+barefootjeff]

While I can sort of understand how someone with unusual taste might like the putrid green, I'm at a loss to come up with any perceived benefit that the double spacing might be supposed to provide. It doesn't work in desktop email clients or on phones, it's just mind-numbingly pointless. Unless, of course, it's to discourage logs longer than TFTC or "Another smiley for me!".

[+boothie103]

My only contribution, albeit simplistic, IS WHY FIX SOMETHING THAT ISN'T BROKEN? Dumb seat polishers everywhere have this desire to fix something. Especially if there has been a change in organisation or something stupid like that. Could we just put it back or at least ask us if want the change? Nope, lets do it anyway, after all a new broom will always sweep cleaner than an old one. The trouble is the old broom is the tried and trusted!

[+lodgebarn]

Come on Groundspeak at least have the courtesy to come on to the forum and explain why this is seen as a good idea. Someone must have thought so. Double spacing is just awful.

[+philbo_baggins]

I am curious if there is a way to config your email app (ie gmail) such that this new email format can be resized to make it smaller? Having to scroll down to read the log entry is a huge pain!

[+stone-cacher]

Again a change in the notification mails, again a lot of people complaining (me included), again the request to allow "text notifications" (as I would love to get as well), again suggestens about "good design" and "forcing fonts and sizes", again good ideas from the "customers" (at least as I'm concerned), again a lot of discussion...

 

... and I'm afraid GS will not explain anything nor change to what I (and others) think is better than what we get as notification now :-(

 

It's a pitty and I'm close to give up giving feedback to GS as I have the feeling it is useless.

 

But I insist: PURE TEXT NOTIFICATION (even without any logo) would be the nicest for me!

Maybe a short discussion about the content of the notification would also make sense.

But this is another topic and I don't want to open a new stream...

[+SwineFlew]

Again a change in the notification mails, again a lot of people complaining (me included), again the request to allow "text notifications" (as I would love to get as well), again suggestens about "good design" and "forcing fonts and sizes", again good ideas from the "customers" (at least as I'm concerned), again a lot of discussion...

 

... and I'm afraid GS will not explain anything nor change to what I (and others) think is better than what we get as notification now :-(

It's a pitty and I'm close to give up giving feedback to GS as I have the feeling it is useless.

 

But I insist: PURE TEXT NOTIFICATION (even without any logo) would be the nicest for me!

Maybe a short discussion about the content of the notification would also make sense.

But this is another topic and I don't want to open a new stream...

 

I gave up years ago.

[+Ambrosia]

I dislike having so much space that I'm forced to scroll down just to see "TFTC" or somesuch.

[+colleda]

I like the new format. Comes up nicely on my phone and I dont have to zoom or move it about to read.

[+noncentric]

I also preferred the 'old format' of the notification emails. I have to do much more scrolling with the 'new format', both on my phone and laptop. I'm also not a fan of the new green that's being used.

 

If the changes are about accessibility, then wouldn't the need for additional scrolling be a detriment? And the new green offers less contrast, which is not a pro-accessibility attribute.

 

Fundamentally though, the first rule (depending on who you ask) of email accessibility design is to have a text-only option. If accessibility was a primary driver, then offering text-only should be done first.

[+nwaman]

I agree too many changes and none of them are worthwhile, change is not always good.

[+Pontiac_CZ]

Colleda: you're probably looking at the old style notification as the new one does not show up nicely on phone displays. But in case it really does for you please provide a screenshot, I am most curious.

[+colleda]

We're talking about the nice green colored one aren't we? Sorry, I don't know how to do sreen shots or send pics. BTW the new format comes up nicely on my desktop screen too.

BTW, I have a Windows phone if that makes a difference.

[+Sagefox]

Colleda: you're probably looking at the old style notification as the new one does not show up nicely on phone displays. But in case it really does for you please provide a screenshot, I am most curious.

The new style shows up very nicely on my iPhone 4 and on my desktop computer. I'm not going to try to figure out how to do a phone screenshot at this point but it would be interesting, though, to see one from your phone that you don't like.

 

New style doesn't work so well on my netbook unless I change the Outlook preview view to a configuration I don't care for.

 

The white space seems to work out o.k. for the phone and desktop and I don't have vision issues. The old style worked o.k. for me and I liked the compressed lines but I can live with the new if it helps others.

[+The A-Team]

I only view my caching emails within the Gmail app on my iPhone 5s, so I'm not sure what it might look like in the native mail app. I'll see if I can get some emails into that to see what they look like.

 

To illustrate what I'm seeing, here are some screenshots from the Gmail app on my iPhone 5s. This is one email that takes two full scrolls plus another small scroll to view the entire message.

[cezanne]

I only view my caching emails within the Gmail app on my iPhone 5s, so I'm not sure what it might look like in the native mail app.

 

I guess the issue here is that what people regard as nice and what as annoying differs considerably. Having to scroll three times for a extremely short log (the logs I receive are typically about ten times as long or even longer) is not what many regard as acceptable. The ratio between noise (Groundspeak added parts and white space) and information (the log contents) has become extremely bad. This bothers cachers like you and me but apparently is regarded as nice by others.

Edited January 27, 2016 by cezanne

[+Pontiac_CZ]

The new style shows up very nicely on my iPhone 4 and on my desktop computer. I'm not going to try to figure out how to do a phone screenshot at this point but it would be interesting, though, to see one from your phone that you don't like.

 

I had already put my Nexus 6 screenshots of new cache notifications in the new cache notifications reformatted thread in Website forum. And here you have new log notifications from my cache in Gmail app - I have to scroll down to see a two line log.

 

 

Edited January 27, 2016 by Pontiac_CZ

[+noncentric]

The new style shows up very nicely on my iPhone 4 and on my desktop computer. I'm not going to try to figure out how to do a phone screenshot at this point but it would be interesting, though, to see one from your phone that you don't like.

I'll also add my own screenshots. From an LG Android phone, using a simple independent mail app. This is not the phone's native mail app, not is it a mail-provider app.

 

The old version (left) would show me several lines of log text without needing to scroll. If I received several emails, then I could simply swipe left or right to move from one email to another and still see the substantive email content (the log text).

 

The new version (right) requires me to scroll up for every email in order to see the log text. Even with a simple "TFTC" log, I have to scroll up to see the log text and then swipe left or right to move to the next email.

 

[+Mudfrog]

The new style shows up very nicely on my iPhone 4 and on my desktop computer. I'm not going to try to figure out how to do a phone screenshot at this point but it would be interesting, though, to see one from your phone that you don't like.

I'll also add my own screenshots. From an LG Android phone, using a simple independent mail app. This is not the phone's native mail app, not is it a mail-provider app.

 

The old version (left) would show me several lines of log text without needing to scroll. If I received several emails, then I could simply swipe left or right to move from one email to another and still see the substantive email content (the log text).

 

The new version (right) requires me to scroll up for every email in order to see the log text. Even with a simple "TFTC" log, I have to scroll up to see the log text and then swipe left or right to move to the next email.

 

 

Looking at them side by side certainly makes it easy to see why the new version, well,,, sucks! The colors of the old, dark green, less white background, just look better. The display was easier on the eyes as well. While the new color aren't my favorite, the bigger issue for me is the double spacing. The emails are usually short and it makes no sense that i now have to scroll to read them.

 

Note, i don't have the best vision in the world. I wear glasses and had never had a problem seeing/reading the older version.

[+noncentric]

And this is how it looks within my email client (Yahoo) on my laptop, with window maximized. With the wider view, the entire log text appears in the older version and there's no need to scroll at all. The newer version still has to scroll at the same point, since the wider view doesn't affect anything above the fold.