Is this a Cache Yes or No

2.7k · April 1, 2003

Admin put this Cache on hold. I would like to hear what other cachers think of this Cache.

ADMIN... IS THIS A GEOCACHE? UNDER DISCUSSION.

Tahosa .. Yes this is a Cache!! It requires some brains 4 and some stamina 4

Main Coordinates are Just Coordinates

You will need to go to Coreys Stash GC29F5 and find a map. When you get to Coreys Stash sign the log the day you retrieve the map.

GPS's are optional on this Cache, after you find the map the real fun begins.

Knowledge of UTM'S and plotting them on a map is required in order to help solve the puzzle. And don't forget your compass. Knowledge of this old fashion tool is essential.

To correct for declination you want the map bearing and field bearing to be equilavent.

Map bearing to magnetic bearing -> Map bearing - declination = Magnetic bearing.

Magnetic bearing to map bearing -> Magnetic bearing + declination = Map bearing.

Now for the clues to find the Cache.

Follow the arrows to X.

From X to the Bachelor Tree -> 94° for .13 mi.

From the Bachelor Tree to the Cache -> 103° for .13 mi.

Face east and low to the ground, under the rocks; do I hide.

Have Fun.

The round trip distance is aproximately 5.6 miles.

Tahosa - Dweller of the Mountain Tops.

April 1, 2003

Questions I would have:

1) Why is it piggybacking on another cache, rather than having its own starting point (like a multi).

2) Will there always somehow be a map in the cache, or will the person who find the map have to bring it back for the next person?

I think it is OK in general, I just don't quite get the logistics.

Maybe you could get around these issues by having the map (or maps) travel from cache to cache. I've done a cache that does something like this with travelling keys that are necessary to open the cache.

George

9.4k · April 1, 2003

Considering that a GPS is not required to find it, initially I would say NO. Then I did some searching.

quote:
You will need to go to Coreys Stash GC29F5 and find a map. When you get to Coreys Stash sign the log the day you retrieve the map.

The FAQ says:

quote:
A logbook might contain information about nearby attractions, coordinates to other unpublished caches...

So getting the 'map' from another cache seems legit.

quote:
Follow the arrows to X.
From X to the Bachelor Tree -> 94° for .13 mi.

From the Bachelor Tree to the Cache -> 103° for .13 mi.

Face east and low to the ground, under the rocks; do I hide.

Again from the FAQ:

quote:
The word Geocaching broken out is GEO for geography, and CACHING for the process of hiding a cache. A cache in computer terms is information usually stored in memory to make it faster to retrieve, but the term is also used in hiking/camping as a hiding place for concealing and preserving provisions.

I know the FAQ mentions using a GPS in many spots, but the basis for the word Geocaching is hiding something, not how you must find it...

Many caches require basic compass/orienteering skills. I'm working on solving the Star of the West Mesa multicache. It gives a bearing that you should use a compass for. I used my GPS's electronic compass. It got me close enough. If I was using a compass, I may have saved time. The real difference between this one and yours is that a compass is optional on this and a GPS is optional on yours.

I think that your description lets everyone know IN ADVANCE that they will need a compass and a map. If the finders don't have the skills, they may want to avoid it.

I like your cache idea.

April 1, 2003

I would have to say it is indeed a cache. And one I wouldnt mind hunting for!

2.7k · April 1, 2003

Seems like a fun one, but the fact that gps isn't required is why admins are stalling over it.

I do see that you have users go to another cache to get the map...that requires gps...good, but how about making this a two-part cache by itself. Have the user find the first part and map.

Then the admins would have to approve of this cache. This would be an offset cache on a grand scale. The gps is required to get to the first part. Nothing in the rule book requires teh cache to require gps coords the whole way, but it needs to be a part of the cache somehow, thus adding the first part and coords would meet this need.

I like your overall idea...cool!

2.6k · April 1, 2003

Sounds like a letterbox without the stamp.

george

Pedal until your legs cramp up and then pedal some more.

2.7k · April 1, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by georgeandmary:
Sounds like a letterbox without the stamp.

george

Not even close to a letter box, believe me your legs would cramp up if you took a bike up this one. Are cachers so intuned to looking for waypoints that they have forgotten that projecting a waypoint works the same as a compass and bearing.

Tahosa - Dweller of the Mountain Tops.

3k · April 2, 2003

I would suggest you make the map available via the cache page (by clicking a link or e-mailing the cache owner), but leaving out a crucial bit of information that can be found at specific coordinates.

3.1k · April 2, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Tahosa:
Not even close to a letter box, believe me your legs would cramp up if you took a bike up this one.

How are leg cramps and letterboxing mutually exclusive? Not the ones I've done.

"Winter's just the curtain. Spring will take the bow"

-- Richard Shindell, Spring

2.7k · April 2, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by BassoonPilot:
but leaving out a crucial bit of information that can be found at specific coordinates.

If you can read a map there is no information left out. Its all there all one has to do is figure it out. Like so many meters to the east and so many meters north, which is at the highest point. Then project a reading or use a #2 dixon and plot it on the map.

Tahosa - Dweller of the Mountain Tops.

6.4k · April 2, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Tahosa:

If you can read a map there is no information left out. Its all there all one has to do is figure it out. Like so many meters to the east and so many meters north, which is at the highest point. Then project a reading or use a #2 dixon and plot it on the map.

Tahosa - Dweller of the Mountain Tops.

Well, that sure sounds like a letterbox to me! Find a spot, then pace off so many meters to the north... yup. Why not just do as was suggested and insteady of piggybacking on another cache, just place the map in it's own cache? That solves everything, without really changing the way your cache works. You use a GPS to find stage #1, where you get the map and continue on. Now it's no different then 1000 other letterbox/multi/offset/night-only caches. Why is it so important to start with the pre-existing cache?

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

April 2, 2003

This sounds like a cache

and I am looking forward to trying it.

I see nothing wrong with starting with a pre-existing box as the first step leading to the new final cache.

In fact, I have been thinking of something similar for one of mine.

2.7k · April 2, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Mopar:
Well, that sure sounds like a letterbox to me! Find a spot, then pace off so many meters to the north... yup. Why is it so important to start with the pre-existing cache?

Did I say pace off or measure UTM's to get coordinates? Once you find X just use a compass or project a way point. And if you can read a map it might not be necessary to go to X, unless you wanted to take some neat pictures. And why not use the existing Cache for a place to store a map. It takes a GPS to find Coreys Stash, plus you can bag that one or start on #25. The existing Cache can be used as a jump off point for this cache and others in the future. Its nice to see where the cache is and what the terrain is like before you go into the hills.

Tahosa - Dweller of the Mountain Tops.

20.7k · April 2, 2003

Certainly if you hid a new cache for the instructions instead of using an existing one it would be a cache. There are many offset caches like this already and no one has come down against them.

Therefore, the only remaining issue is whether an existing cache can be used for this purpose. On this point, opinions will vary. It could be said that a previous finder of 'Corey's Stash' would not need a GPSr to complete the new cache. Therefore, it does not fit the current guidelines.

Also, the previous citation from the faq (A logbook might contain information about nearby attractions, coordinates to other unpublished caches...) probably does not apply as this would be a published cache.

The idea sounds like a good one, I think you should hide a new preliminary cache box with the containing the instructions, rather than use an existing cache.

24.7k · April 2, 2003

It's a cache and because it's an offset cache of sorts it's Probably a Multi Cache

Regardless, you don't need a GPS to go geocaching so the GPS is not the determining factor.

Wherever you go there you are.

April 2, 2003

This is most definitely a cache. I do share Nincehelser's concern about whether there will always be an available map in Coreys (sic) Stash. Also, you need a GPSr to get to GC29F5, so there should be no issue in that regard, not that there should be in any event. This is essentially a "two for one" blue light special. It should work nicely if a map is always in the first cache. Good job for creative thinking.

Veni, Vidi, Cachi ...

April 2, 2003

I would tend to agree that it is a cache, and a fun one at that, but I still don't understand the insistance on not placing a new cache for the first leg. It seems like this may solve the problem of getting approval from the admins.

6.4k · April 2, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by FullOn:
I would tend to agree that it is a cache, and a fun one at that, but I still don't understand the insistance on not placing a new cache for the first leg. It seems like this may solve the problem of getting approval from the admins.

Thanks, that's what I was trying to say. Seems like that is the only stickypoint for approval, so why not just give it it's own starting point?

Heck, if Coreys Stash really is THAT important of a starting point, keep the map there, place a new multicache,and make stage #1 new, stage #2 Coreys Stash, and stage #3 found with the map info.

It does seem like a generally great cache, but also a rather simple one to make fit within the parameters the approvers want to get approved.

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

[This message was edited by Mopar to fix typos that changed the intended meaning of my post, somewhat]

[This message was edited by Mopar on April 02, 2003 at 12:46 PM.]

1.1k · April 2, 2003

I don't think there is any debate whether it is an interesting idea. The issue I have with it (like Mopar) is the piggybacking on someone else's cache.

It's like a bonus cache for a particular cache hunt. As such it doesn't really seem to need its own page. Instead, since you're piggybacking on a cache, try contacting that cache's owner and have them add the additional challenge to it. I'm sure they would think it's a good idea.

Creating another cache with the same coordinates is redundant, which is something we're trying to avoid. If you really think points matter you can log the bonus cache after you log the original cache to get 2 finds.

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

3.1k · April 2, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy (Admin):
...try contacting that cache's owner... I'm sure they would think it's a good idea.

Who wants to tell him?

Even though it's Tahosa's cache, I still think a new starting cache is a better way to go. The only thing that really distinguishes a geocache from a letterbox is the use of coordinates, thus this borders on being a different game. In this case, you might even be able to get the .1 mile restirction waived.

"Winter's just the curtain. Spring will take the bow"

-- Richard Shindell, Spring

2.7k · April 2, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy (Admin):
try contacting that cache's owner and have them add the additional challenge to it. I'm sure they would think it's a good idea.

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

I am the owner of the other Cache.

Its basically a hub where they can find the map for the locations of the A Real 4 by 4 and in addition they can log Coreys Stash if they so desire and read the newspaper from the Loveland Paper, that has a article on GeoCaching. And within 50 ft. of Coreys Stash is the starting point for #25 another multi-cache that I have placed. The main coordinates for A real 4 by 4 are down the street about a half a mile. They are there because of the pointless .1 rule. Its not where they start that matters but where they really end when it comes to multi-caches.

And why haven't I even received any EMail from admin on the validity of this cache. That just doesn't make sense.

Tahosa - Dweller of the Mountain Tops.

2.6k · April 2, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Tahosa:
Not even close to a letter box, believe me your legs would cramp up if you took a bike up this one.

Tahosa - Dweller of the Mountain Tops.

That' just makes the downhill more fun.

Just leave the instructions in the original cache and leave it as a bonus for those that find it.

george

Pedal until your legs cramp up and then pedal some more.

9.4k · April 2, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Tahosa:

quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy (Admin):
try contacting that cache's owner and have them add the additional challenge to it. I'm sure they would think it's a good idea.

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

I am the owner of the other Cache.

Its basically a hub where they can find the map for the locations of the _A Real 4 by 4_ and in addition they can log Coreys Stash if they so desire and read the newspaper from the Loveland Paper, that has a article on GeoCaching. And within 50 ft. of Coreys Stash is the starting point for #25 another multi-cache that I have placed. The main coordinates for A real 4 by 4 are down the street about a half a mile. They are there because of the pointless .1 rule. Its not where they start that matters but where they really end when it comes to multi-caches.

And why haven't I even received any EMail from admin on the validity of this cache. That just doesn't make sense.

Tahosa - Dweller of the Mountain Tops.

So, these are all seperate legs of a multicache with each leg having its own final cache?

April 3, 2003

quote:
So, these are all seperate legs of a multicache with each leg having its own final cache?

I love that little band at the base of the page.

If what's quoted is the case, why not just put them all on one cache page and have people log one, two, or three smilies on that page depending on what they find? Those that don't give a hoot about the numbers (gasp!) can even log it only once but state that they found all.

~erik~

2.7k · April 4, 2003

Must not be a Cache, it was archived before it even got a chance to go. Oh well back to the drawing board.

Tahosa - Dweller of the Mountain Tops.

9.4k · April 4, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by ~erik~:
I love that little band at the base of the page.

Thanks. Here it is again:

April 4, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Team GPSaxophone:

quote:
Originally posted by ~erik~:
I love that little band at the base of the page.

Thanks. Here it is again:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ihazeltine/bandbass.gif

I can't hear them.

9.4k · April 4, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by kd4adc:

quote:
Originally posted by Team GPSaxophone:

quote:
Originally posted by ~erik~:
I love that little band at the base of the page.

Thanks. Here it is again:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ihazeltine/bandbass.gif

I can't hear them.

You need little ears

Is this a Cache Yes or No

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