Member Only

[+Team Grizzly]

When I decided to become a premium member, my intentions were basically to support Groundspeak financially, be able to run queries, and I will admit that I was hoping that there would be some really cool "member-only" caches that would go above and beyond the norm. I think that I have only done one or two m-o's and there was nothing exceptional about them. On these forums I have read some interesting discussions about this topic, including some who reportedly boycott such caches. Which has lead me to wonder if there are ANY benefits to member-only caches.

 

However, the other day one of my buddies and I were talking about placing a real doosy of a cache in a VERY public place. 95% of cachers would get into the game and try hard not to compromise the location, but that other 5%, especially newbies, might spoil the whole thing unitentionally by a lack of being discrete. This temps us into making it an m-o cache for the protection of the location and for other geocachers to enjoy.

 

Have I become an elitist? I hope not. Can we still be friends if I make this a member only cache?

[+fly46]

I agree that there are benefits, but I have to say this... Some people aren't members for reasons other than being cheap. I can barely scrape together enough money for my visa bill every month, forget about me paying for something like this. (If I ever have money, it's on my list of things to consider)

 

As for your specific situation, I'd say go and put a cache there. You know it's a good location, and you know it's going to be plundered if it's too public, although, just because people can afford to pay for Groundspeak, doesn't mean they're smart enough to be descrete either.

[CoyoteRed]

So, your test of the cacher being worthy of your cache is the ability to spend $3 a month? Not much of a test.

 

If I were wanting to protect a cache location I'd make'm work for it. Be it puzzle, trivia, math, or what have you, making it mentally difficult would likely to weed out those who are more likely to compromise the cache I'd think. I.e. too lazy to protect the cache would likely be too lazy to figure out where it is.

 

Or, another way to view it would be the newbie cachers would tend to do the easier caches and work their way up the foodchain. By the time they feel they can do the harder caches, they would more likely be more savvy cachers.

 

I'd like to hear the thoughts of some the others on this idea.

[+SBPhishy]

No offense. I think it is completely about being cheap, or just not wanting to pay. 3 dollars a MONTH is really nothing. Now, before you say, "just because you have money... blah blah blah..." think about it.

 

3.00 a month equals .10 cents a day. You can LITERALLY find that in your sofa, car floor, the ground, a friend, change from anything you buy. etc. etc.

 

So, even the most dirt-poor person can scrape together ten cents a day.

 

The argument is whether it is high or low on your list of priorities, or whether you think you shouldn't have to "pay for geocaching" in general.

 

I realize there are people with much less money than I have (though hopefully not too much, since I hardly have any!) but, if being a premium member on the GC.com website is important to you, there is nothing standing in your way.

 

A person who has a credit card already, can definitely FIND .10 cents a day, if that's what they want. If you ever eat at restaurants, or fast food joints, you could not eat 1/2 a meal for one day out of the month, and you would save 3.00.

 

On the M O thing, I wish there were some crazy members only caches, but there are NONE in my area. Oh well...

Edited April 16, 2004 by SBPhishy

[+New England n00b]

I realize there are people with much less money than I have (though hopefully not too much, since I hardly have any!) but, if being a premium member on the GC.com website is important to you, there is nothing standing in your way.

 

A person who has a credit card already, can definitely FIND .10 cents a day, if that's what they want. If you ever eat at restaurants, or fast food joints, you could not eat 1/2 a meal for one day out of the month, and you would save 3.00.

 

But there is - the lack of ability to use a credit card. It's Paypal or paper check, neither of which I am willing to do. Come May 1st , hopefully this excuse will be mooted....

[+JeepCachr]

Relative newbie here, 7 total founds. I am a premium member though so don't think that limiting your cache to members only is going to stop a newbie from spoiling it. Not saying that I would but I might not be smart enough to not.

 

Personally I'd say to not place a cache that you think is to public because odds are its going to get plundered even if its members only.

[Jamethiel]

I use "members only" to keep track of who is looking at certain of our caches.

Usually I change them to regular after 2 or 3 months anyway.

I have heard of people making all theirs "members only" when cache thieves are in their area.

-Jennifer

[Jamethiel]

And there are quite a few members only caches in the Missoula, Mt area. So we have gotten used to seeing them. And so far they have usually been worthwhile caches to find. Very worthwhile.

-Jennifer

[CoyoteRed]

...or you could just make it an offset, thus forcing them to actually read the cache discription. At the top of the page put large red letters "Please be very, very distreet" and hope they take this to heart.

[+Team Grizzly]

I use "members only" to keep track of who is looking at certain of our caches.

Usually I change them to regular after 2 or 3 months anyway.

I have heard of people making all theirs "members only" when cache thieves are in their area.

-Jennifer

Hey, great idea - Thanks!

[+Renegade Knight]

My experience with cachers who are not discrete and who tear up the area is that generally they are the ghosts who don't log DNF's and dont' tell you they were there. Hell they probably aren't even members of the site since you don't have to be a member to look up a cache.

 

While being a member doesn't make you a great person my take is that in general those morons who you have to allow for when placing a cache (which I do resemble at times) are less likely to pony up the money.

 

Thats why people who have a cache thief loose in the area tend to make all their Caches MOC. Then not every Tom, Dick, and Harry can look it up for plundering. I don't have anything against members as opposed to premium members. I do have a lot against cache thieves and people who tear up an area.

[MOCKBA]

If I were wanting to protect a cache location I'd make'm work for it. Be it puzzle, trivia, math, or what have you, making it mentally difficult would likely to weed out those who are more likely to compromise the cache I'd think. I.e. too lazy to protect the cache would likely be too lazy to figure out where it is.

Or, another way to view it would be the newbie cachers would tend to do the easier caches and work their way up the foodchain. By the time they feel they can do the harder caches, they would more likely be more savvy cachers.

For one thing a lot of newbie cachers are premium members from Day 1.

Secondly, if your MOC is not a puzzle, trvia, or otherwise very difficult find, but in fact is placed in a logical location at the posted coordinates, then it is not really protected from non-paying member scrutiny.

Thirdly, a lot of caches are lost to muggles discovering them by pure chance, and a lot more are taken by qualified paying members with some personal agendas. Sloppy re-hiding by novices is not among the top reasons of cache plunder IMHO.

And lastly, as you may know, some people object to paying to Groundspeak out of disagreement with the company policies.

[+Riddlers]

In this area, the newbies seem to all be paid in full members. It only took me a short time to pay up and I don't have lots of money either but I believe in a good cause. I don't think we have any members only caches within 75 miles of where I live but that wasn't why I joined. I don't think your problem will be newbies trashing it.

[+Cache Viking]

Its your cache and Members Only is a valid option so use it if you think it would help.

[mishapman]

SBPhishy: So, even the most dirt-poor person can scrape together ten cents a day.

 

$3 a month is pretty cheap...considering you plunk down at least $100 for a GPS to hunt the caches with. (laughs)

 

I have no room to talk, I'm not a member, but it's not because of money. I just don't have a need for the benefits offered by membership.

[+Will+Bill]

We became members for the pocket quairies and to support the web site. Whenever we hide a new cache, we keep it premium for a few weeks, then change to a regular cache. We do this so more people will be incourged to support the site.

[+SBPhishy]

Exactly Mishapman. This "sport" is centered around expensive electronics. 3 bucks a month is NOTHING comparitively.

 

But there is - the lack of ability to use a credit card. It's Paypal or paper check, neither of which I am willing to do. Come May 1st , hopefully this excuse will be mooted....

 

I was actually referring to Fly46's post about hardly being able to pay his Visa bill. If he has a credit card, he can afford a premium member ship. Period. I don't think there is any reasonable excuse for him/her not to have one, besides just not wanting one. That's all I was sayin.

 

As for you, I suppose you have run into a real example. Why can you not use these things? Are you under 18? I suppose you could get your parents or anyone else to help you out.

[+GeoGyn]

I have no room to talk, I'm not a member, but it's not because of money.  I just don't have a need for the benefits offered by membership.

This pretty much represents the antithesis of exactly why I AM am member. I am relatively new to this sport (5 months and almost 300 caches) and this is my first post to the boards ever. For me, membership is not about the money; it's not about hunting M-O caches; it's not about perceived benefits. It is about supoprting the sport and giving something back to the geocaching community. Where do you think the money comes from to support server that allows you to post these opinions? Memberships, that't where! It's the same reason that I will be out in a local park tomorroy picking up trash. Not because of money or benefits.... because I want to portray geocaching in a favorable light, show my appreciation to the parks and other places that support geocaching....... and because it is the right thing to do!

[+Riddlers]

I agree with you Geo Gyn.

[+SBPhishy]

I agree with GeoGyn too... But I would go insane without my pocket queries!

[+fly46]

 

A person who has a credit card already, can definitely FIND .10 cents a day, if that's what they want. If you ever eat at restaurants, or fast food joints, you could not eat 1/2 a meal for one day out of the month, and you would save 3.00.

 

Actually, I can't..

I've been trying to find a job with no success, so every cent I have goes to my visa card. When you're making $0 and have to come up with $50 every month, 10 cents is the difference between make it or break it..

 

Oh, and I didn't buy my own gps, either, since someone brought that up.

[mishapman]

I meant no offense to anyone with regards to membership or not. Currently, for me, there are more than enough caches to find without membership. I would definately pay for GC.com if there were more members only caches than not, but that's not how it goes. If GC.com wanted to rake in some $$$, it would list all new caches as members-only for X period of time.

 

GynDoc...how in the world do you have time for caching. As an OR nurse in a past life, how do you find time for a hobby? All the GYN surgeons I knew worked long past published OR closing time.

 

Happy Caching

[+SBPhishy]

Seriously though Fly46. It's 10 cents a day. I am a full-time college student, without a job. I live off of my school grants and small loans. I don't make a dime not having a job, and much of my money goes to tuition and books, and rent, gas, food, etc. I too have a decently high credit card bill, and am forced to make payments on it every month. 3 dollars a month (at least for me) is such a small amount of money, I can't even consider it a luxury. I end up giving that much away to the homeless people in my neighborhood every week.

 

I know many dimes can add up over time, but I can't seriously say that "10 cents is the difference between make it or break it". If I lived in another country where the poverty is so outrageous, and where 10 cents was actually worth something, I would understand. Here though, in our wasteful American society, 3.00 a month will hardly buy you anything. Saving 10 cents a day out of your daily expenses is so easy. When you fill up your gas tank (if you have a car) you can stop it .10 cents early, and you're on your way. You probably don't fill your gas tank everyday, so stop it .70 cents early, once a week. Your gas tank sure won't notice it.

 

While I understand that people are in different stages of life, and have different opportunities than other people, to me, it seems like there is some exageration.

Edited April 17, 2004 by SBPhishy

[CoyoteRed]

And lastly, as you may know, some people object to paying to Groundspeak out of disagreement with the company policies.

I'd most likely be in that same boat if it wasn't for "She Who Must Be Obeyed."

 

Otherwise you're preaching to the choir, brother!

 

Personally, I'm one of those that boycotts MOC's unless it's something worthy of our immediate attention--like a good challenge and we're trying to beat the local FFF. (First Finder Fiend)

[+RichardMoore]

Seriously though Fly46. It's 10 cents a day.

Actually, it's not.

It works out to 10 cents a day, but it is a lump sum of $30 (I don't consider the $3.00 a month option to be reasonable; but even so, $3.00 will buy 3 double cheeseburgers at McDonalds, or three cans of Beefaroni, either of which can be three meals).

And if you're not getting something you need, why pay it?

I've been in the same position as Fly46 and one of the things that I've learned is that as soon as you start thinking "It's only a couple bucks...", you've lost the budget battle.

But as soon as I could I became a member to support the site.

[+Team Perks]

I love reading these forums. It's amazing how much people will get worked up over nothing.

 

I am a premium member. I have been since three weeks after I joined. If you choose note to pay for whatever reason, I don't care. That's your decision. I don't consider myself better because I pay.

 

Most of the subscriber-only caches I've seen are not alone worth paying the extra money for. I couldn't live without my pocket queries. That makes it worthwhile for me. If you don't pay and don't care about PQ's, you aren't missing much else.

 

Out of the 50 caches I've placed, two of them are subscriber-only caches. Why? Because they're wickedly difficult, and we like to keep tabs on who's looking for them for our own personal amusement. But the only reason that should concern anyone is: It's MY cache, and I felt like it.

 

If it bothers you that people place member-only caches that you can't access, go look for other ones. I live in the desert and I don't own an OHV; however, many caches around here can only be reached by OHV (or 20-mile round trip hike). Should I be upset because I can't get to those caches? No way. I go get the ones I CAN find.

 

Let the flames begin...

[+SBPhishy]

It's amazing how much people will get worked up over nothing.

 

I hope you're not talking about me. I understand that some people want to be members, and others don't care. If there were Members only caches out here, I would do them, but there aren't any.

 

Actually, it's not.

It works out to 10 cents a day, but it is a lump sum of $30 (I don't consider the $3.00 a month option to be reasonable; but even so, $3.00 will buy 3 double cheeseburgers at McDonalds, or three cans of Beefaroni, either of which can be three meals).

 

Umm... Yes it is. It DOES work out to 10 cents a day, give or take, and it's not a lump sum of $30. Why don't you consider the 3.00 a month option to be reasonable? That's what I pay. I do that, because if it ever comes up that I really need the money, I would rather have not spent it already, on SOMETHING I DON'T NEED (as you say below). The 3.00 a month option is the best option they have for some people. If it was a 30 dollar lump sum, I would probably not be a member. About McDonald's, I figured someone was going to mention them. Yes, you can buy their cardboard patties for very cheap, as well as beefaroni. I was just trying to make a point.

 

No one NEEDS a premium member ship, but if someone wanted one, but couldn't have one, I wouldn't think that it would be a monetary reason for not having one.

 

...as soon as you start thinking "It's only a couple bucks...", you've lost the budget battle.

 

The budget battle? There is no "budget battle" solely for the fact that it is "ONLY A COUPLE BUCKS." A couple bucks a month. It's such a small amount. People probably lose that amount of money every month.

 

I realize this is a stupid discussion, and I don't really expect it to go anywhere. It just seems to me, that for someone to live in todays society, especially someone with the time and means to geocache, could find some way to gather 3.00 a month and use it for a premium membership (IF THEY WANTED TOO) without really "missing" the money. It IS 3.00 a month, and there is no lump sum. So far, I have only payed Groundspeak around 15 dollars or so, and the option to do that has been great.

[+bigredmed]

I like MOC's because it lets me be creative in the development of caches that are legal, but unusual. If we did this with caches that anyone could hunt, I wouldn't get the same experienced opinions as I get from a MOC installation.

[bug and snake]

I like MOC's because it lets me be creative in the development of caches that are legal, but unusual. If we did this with caches that anyone could hunt, I wouldn't get the same experienced opinions as I get from a MOC installation.

I doubt that that is a general situation. Perhaps in your area it is so but there is no reason to expect it to stay that way for ever. Many people find the site and join up in a very short space of time. Therefor, little or no experience. This very concept was discussed earlier (yesterday I think) but I can't remember which thread! It's hell getting old and senile... Well, I think it is, if I remember right.

[+Team Perks]

I hope you're not talking about me. I understand that some people want to be members, and others don't care. If there were Members only caches out here, I would do them, but there aren't any.

 

That was directed at nobody in particular. It's my very general sentiment toward these forums. (Yes, I know, I could simply not read them, but that would be too easy. )

 

Why don't you consider the 3.00 a month option to be reasonable? That's what I pay. I do that, because if it ever comes up that I really need the money, I would rather have not spent it already, on SOMETHING I DON'T NEED (as you say below). The 3.00 a month option is the best option they have for some people. If it was a 30 dollar lump sum, I would probably not be a member.

 

Don't you realize that for only pennies a day, you can help feed a starving child? Hi, I'm Sally Struthers, and I urge you to call 1-800-FEED-ME to help provide food to some starving child in a foreign country that you've never heard of and will most certainly never know if this child actually exists!

[+WhipArtist]

I created a MOC a couple of weeks ago. It's MO only because it contains some relatively expensive items (DVDs, CDs, VHS tapes) and I had a probably-irrational fear of non-cachers finding it on the site and then making off with the whole cache. By restricting it to people who have forked over a few bucks to be members, the odds of that happening are much lower.

[+Cool Librarian]

Fly46

 

I understand what you are saying - you simply, at this time, cannot afford to put membership on your list of priorities. It's amazing the things that people say about other's financial states....

 

For some of us, NO money means NO money - no savings, no checking, no credit cards that aren't over-limit, no job, NO MONEY. For others no money means, "I can't afford to go on vacation."

 

There was a time when I couldn't have afforded $3 a month for a membership (and let me tell ya, if I don't find a job soon, I'm going to be right back there). If someone says they can't afford it, let's give them the benefit of the doubt and take his/her word for it and not try to make them feel worse by breaking it down and saying, "It's only 10 cents a day."

[+poppagoth]

This is beginning to sound like the local Public Radio membership drive (which is going on right now). I wonder how the ratio of member to listeners/users compare.

[+SBPhishy]

It's only 10 cents a day. The homeless people in my neighborhood make more than that. Seriously. Are you homeless? They are the ones who should be saying "I can't afford to eat today," etc. etc.

It's amazing the things that people say about other's financial states....

 

It is isn't it... It's amazing that someone can try to justify, that in America, 3.00 a month is a substantial amount of money.

 

If you live in any sort of house, trailer, etc. You are so much better off than MANY other people in the world. The homeless people here have told me that they have made 40 dollars in a day. I'm sure they spend some of it on booze though. If they hit you up for some cash, and you give them a dime, they look at you like you are a cheap piece of crap. Even to them, the people who really have nothing, think a dime sucks.

 

Whatever. I'm sick of arguing. If you have a house, a car, or a credit card, etc. You CAN afford 10 cents a day. Period. I don't see any rational explanation why you wouldn't be able too. Obviously I am playing devil's advocate here. I was just trying you get somebody to admit that the reason they can't "afford" 3.00 a month, is because they don't want to. Because it's not important enough. That's all. Obviously all of you have a computer/have access to a computer. For people in today's society, having access to all this expensive stuff, I will never believe that some one absolutely cannot afford the measly amount of money we are discussing.