Lone Female Geocachers

June 21, 2004

I do most of my caching on my own, often find myself in the middle of a dark woods or somewhere similar, never really worried about it before, until someone (non-cacher) said " what would you do if you were attacked". I sort of think that the places we go wouldn't really attract weirdos, but now & again since then I get a bit apprehensive, though a tiddles in full battledress is a fearsome sight. Are there any other lone female cachers out there with any tips or tales of caution to tell. I would be interested. My only problems so far have been when I got my foot stuck down a hole, gps was thrown about 10 ft away & mobile was inaccesible, eventually with patience sorted myself out, but even that did not make me worry about being on my own.

tiddles

xxx

2.2k · June 22, 2004

not a lone female cacher but some tips apply to everyone. keep the mobile charged up and accessible, mine's on a chain so even if i drop it it can't go anywhere . standard rules for going out and about: let someone know where you are going and when you'll be back.

i would also make sure you've a small first aid kit. re personal safety...well it depends on what you think you can do. do a little/ alot of self defence training, carry a can of hairspray. the basic rule is hit an attacker hard and fast to distract them then run like hell. don't hang about even if you think you'll win, they might produce a weapon. distract them and go.

at the end of the day, you're not at too much risk and you can only do so much to minimise your risks without spoiling the enjoyment. just tkae some sensible precautions.

3.9k · June 22, 2004

Tiddles, I hope you don't drive to your caches, because that's about 1000 times more dangerous than wandering in the woods on your own. And even then, the main risk I feel on my own (OK, I'm 6ft4 and male) is when I scramble down a slope in an area with zero GSM coverage and hope I don't twist anything.

Frankly - although my experience is "limited" :tongue: - if I wanted to murder someone, I don't think I'd hang around in a damp wood on the off chance that a lone female would pass by. Apart from anything else I'd expect blokes with shotguns looking for pheasant etc.

People who make remarks like "what if you get attacked (in a dark wood in the country)" are the same as those who say "what if you get attacked when walking down a street in town". Clearly in their minds, nowhere is safe (after a few minutes they often start to froth at the mouth, I find). They have such messed-up heads (generally there's a high proportion of Daily Mail readers among them) that they let their lives be run by perceived risks from the media, which are in fact on the "struck by lightning" scale of probability.

However - and again, I suspect it's a very, very, very minor risk here - you've just announced in a public forum that you like to cache alone. You might like to ask a Google-savvy friend to start with your GC profile (complete with photo !) and see how long it takes them to work out your name, address, place of work, and even, based on your list of caches visited, where you might be this weekend.

"Geostalkers" don't exist yet, AFAIK, although if GC ever goes mainstream, I'm sure daytime TV will do a programme on the possibility that they might exist, so someone can call for GC to be banned. See also the "BBC Southern Counties Radio" thread. Hey, that could be an angle for the miserable wretches who are looking for the "anti" side of the story.

1.9k · June 22, 2004

It is like with everything, you just have to keep your wits about you. Like someone previously said take some kind of self defence lessons just in case.

I always go out caching with my hubby Mark. but on the one ocassion I did go alone (Miners Cross Here cache whilst at the Forestry Shepherds event) I slipped on a rock and injured my knee. I couldn't help thinking how much more serious it could have been. Luckily I know First Aid and knew what immediate treatment to perform (just badly bruised). I was determinned to carry on for the cache. Had things been worse, people knew where I had gone and I had my fully charged mobile phone with me. So help would have eventually been forthcoming.

Don't advertise that you go alone be careful you never know who is watching or listening. And don't advertise the fact that you are a single woman, (basic internet care on any site).

Most of all enjoy your caching, try to talk some of your friends or even better your Husband to go with you after all there is safety in numbers and you have someone to share your caching experiences and memories with.

Joan

:tongue: :unsure: :huh:

Edited June 22, 2004 by Cave Troll & Joan

1.4k · June 22, 2004

Statistically Rapes and murders are generally performed by someone known to the victiim so I recon you are better off staying in the woods away from your friends and family.

The biggest risk is of an accident - so keep your phone handy and tell people where you are going.

Chris

June 22, 2004

The biggest risk is of an accident - so keep your phone handy and tell people where you are going.

Chris

Couldnt agree more either leave details with some or stick a bit paper on the dash of where you are going and ETA & PMR Freq, up in the hill where a lot a caches are there is no phone coverage. Best alternatvie is a PMR446 Radio which MR Teams can pick up once within 2Km of you

2.2k · June 22, 2004

I would have thought that you run more risk walking in town, driving to the cache,

sitting at home watching tv or spending a day at work.

Life is a risky business and would be boring without risk. Be sensible and leave details of where you are going with somone you trust.

I think Geo Ho has quite a long thread on this but in the US it seems their answer may be to go armed, would not want to see that.

Anyway happy caching.

Cheers

Tony

1.8k · June 22, 2004

Following this thread even though not female but usually caching solo I was interested in the reference to PMR radio for emergency use. I have a pair of BT Freeway walkie talkies which I presume use the PMR band, but they have multiple channels. Do the MR people carry scanners or is it necessary to leave a not of the channel in use?

Edited June 22, 2004 by John Stead

June 22, 2004

And always take spare batteries... Oh and yer kendal bloody mint cake.

Mark

Team Nottrikk

June 22, 2004

Nomally MR have it set to 4 19 up here. best to leave note though

UK PMR 446 Site

The above link has good info on PMR :tongue:

3.8k · June 22, 2004

Walk with an air of total self confidence... If you look like you can 'handle yourself' you're perhaps less likely to be accosted than someone who look timid and frightened. If that doesn't work.... A four cell Maglite makes a formidable weapon should the need arise. In the unlikely event that you are 'accosted' then 'pre-emptive retaliation' could save you a lot of grief. If it's obvious an assault is imminent, don't wait to be hit. The old saying that attack is the best form of defence has never been more right. Make as much noise as you can; a long, loud scream or a small personal attack alarm going off will often be enough to deter the assailant. If they're determined, then as Nobby said, any small aerosol, from deodorant to fly killer, squirted in an attackers eyes will almost certainly give you enough time to trip them up or push them over. I would only add one thing... Once they're on the ground MAKE SURE THEY DON'T GET UP AGAIN. A basic knowledge of human anatomy is a useful thing for anyone to have. Knowing just a few of the more vulnerable nerve centres can make a lot of difference. A hefty kick to the outside of the upper leg will surely disable them for long enough for you to get away and raise the alarm. It's also an easier target than some of the 'softer' spots. A quick stamp on the knee joint has the same effect. If it gets 'up close and personal' don't waste your energy beating on their chest, go for the face, in particular the eyes and another vulnerable collection of nerves in the top lip, just below the nose.

As has already been said, you're more at risk walking on the streets alone than walking in a wood. Stay on brightly lit main roads when ever possible, even if it makes your journey a little longer and avoid alleyways and council estates like the plague.

It's a sad indictment of our times that a lone female can't walk in safety but if you must go out alone at night let common sense be your guide and reduce the risk to the minimum.

Sorry if that sounds a bit OTT but I've been around a long time and in my 'younger years' worked and played in some of the rougher areas, from London's East End and our northern inner cities to the council estates on the outskirts of Dublin. I've learnt a lot from some of the best teachers :tongue: :unsure: .

Edited June 22, 2004 by Pharisee

June 22, 2004

I've occasionally gone out on my own into woodlands and its never bothered me. I'm honestly more concerned about twisting my ankle or something and not being able to move, than I am about being attacked so I make sure I have my mobile with me and let Adam know what I am up to.

Potential attackers would be more likely to hang around where they are likely to find a victim (e.g. alleys in urban areas) - not in the middle of nowhere.

That said - I wouldn't go out into the woods alone at night, just 'cos woods at night are scary! :tongue:

Lisa

3.9k · June 22, 2004

The main reason to take self-defence classes is to improve your personal confidence, and possibly also your fitness. I know a judo black belt (3rd dan) who says the only benefit he feels is that if someone were to attack him, he can outrun them.

Most people have no experience of any form of physical assault whatsoever (my "retired Colonel" alter ego blames the schools for not making rugby compulsory :tongue: ) and whatever else it's like, it ain't like on the TV.

June 22, 2004

even if it makes your journey a little longer and avoid alleyways and council estates like the plague.

I do find the remark, ref council estates, offensive.

A word of caution:- using any "weapon" to defend one's self could be against the law. You are allowed to use "reasonable force to defend yourself" spray cans, I would suggest would not be resonable force, and most definatly not if you had not been attacked. "The Law is an a**" but......

3.8k · June 22, 2004

I do find the remark, ref council estates, offencive.

Then please accept my apologies; I meant no offence. As someone who spent his childhood living on a council estate (my father lives there still) I know that the majority of folk that live on them as nice a crowd as you'll find anywhere..... during the day!!! Unfortunately in recent years, at night, some of the estates have become the 'playground' for groups (I won't refer to them as 'gangs') of youths, both male and female. While most of them are relatively harmless, they can be intimidating to the lone walker. The chances of passing such a group without so much as a comment are remote. Even if there is no physical abuse, verbal abuse can still be extremely upsetting for a lady so avoiding them altogether (unless you know it's safe) is the better option.

As for defence.... I stand by my earlier statement. Do what you have to do to protect yourself. There is no way on this planet that I will stand by meekly and let someone hurt me (or mine) without attempting some sort of defencive action. If that means that the attacker is hurt in the process then so be it.... I'll let the lawyers sort it out afterwards.

However, I think we're going a bit 'off the thread' now as the original question was about walking in woods at night, not crossing council estates. As as already been said, the chances of being attacked are not very high but it does no harm at all to be aware and prepared.

June 22, 2004

If your going to get attacked here's another way to deal with it!!

Link

:tongue:

3.8k · June 22, 2004

If your going to get attacked here's another way to deal with it!!

Link

A bit further off topic... A friends brother was hiking in the GABA and was bitten by a snake. He managed to get to a sheep station before collapsing unconscious. He woke up some time later in hospital and was told that only one thing had saved his life (apart from the Flying Doctor Service).... the snake (now very dead) was gripped so tightly in his hand that they had to prise his fingers open to release it. Because they could identify which species had bitten him, they were able to administer the correct anti-toxin in time to save his life.

June 22, 2004

Thank you all for you comments & concern.

I do not go caching at night,(I aint that daft), although 54(so I'm not flashing my belly button) I do work out at a gym 3 or 4 times a week, regularly run 5 mile (not fast though). Sat with my son through 2 years of Ninjitsu lessons :unsure: & 5 years of Karate, so have the theory of self defence. The idea of a aerosol is a good one. Usually tell the kids where I'm going or at least leave a note 'cos theyre still in bed when I go out. I was born & brought up in Toxteth, Liverpool, where unless you had the walk of confidence you were eaten alive. As I said initially I never worried about caching alone before, so I don't think I'm going to start now.

Love tiddles

xxx

:tongue:

1.1k · June 22, 2004

even if it makes your journey a little longer and avoid alleyways and council estates like the plague.

I do find the remark, ref council estates, offensive.

A word of caution:- using any "weapon" to defend one's self could be against the law. You are allowed to use "reasonable force to defend yourself" spray cans, I would suggest would not be resonable force, and most definatly not if you had not been attacked. "The Law is an a**" but......

This isn't quite right, I'll get back to you shortly...............

1.1k · June 22, 2004

Most of the above is very good advice, but some of the stuff on weapons, reasonable force and the like is incorrect and misleading. I'll do my best not to be tedious and apologise if this goes on, but a basic understanding of it may be useful.

Under the law people are perfectly entitled to use force to protect themselves, their property and others. But any force used must be reasonable and proportionate to the threat. Reasonable force also doesn’t necessarily mean you can’t use something to defend yourself. You’re breaking the law though if you carry an item around in public for the sole intention of using it as a weapon to protect yourself, unless you can prove you've been the victim of a very recent attack.

‘A word of caution:- using any "weapon" to defend one's self could be against the law. You are allowed to use "reasonable force to defend yourself" spray cans, I would suggest would not be resonable force, and most definatly not if you had not been attacked. "The Law is an a**" but......’

There is nothing wrong with a pre-emptive strike. If a lady carries around with her a number items including hairspray (again not intending to use any of them as a weapon), but then grabs it from her bag to defend herself – it’s nonsense to suggest that she wouldn’t be able to spray some would-be attacker in the face, before that attacker has laid hands on her, as long as she genuinely feared for her safety.

If you’re 6’10” and detain a 5’ nothing teenager who has been scrumping, by holding him warmly by the throat until he loses consciousness – that’s not reasonable force or proportionate. If however, that teenager has robbed someone at knifepoint and then does his best to give you a new hole in your belly – I would suggest that you could do whatever you needed to do to protect your life.

(Splitting hairs I know Pharisee, but there is no such thing as pre-emptive retaliation.)

A lot boils down to perception and experience, which if it got that far – a court would take into account.

Its always struck me as pretty simple to understand and any confusion there is, is due to the media in this country who report high profile cases in a way that sells newspapers and gets viewers, rather the actual truth / full story. A lazy reporter has an easier life if he doesn’t need to find out both sides and it also helps him if the general public believes the law is an ar*%.

My advice (which to be honest I never follow myself!), is don't put yourself in a position where you can't readily obtain help..............

June 22, 2004

You’re breaking the law though if you carry an item around in public for the sole intention of using it as a weapon to protect yourself, unless you can prove you've been the victim of a very recent attack.

I guess that means this product "X MARKER DEFENCE SPRAY" sold on the webpage qouted below as "LEGAL IN THE UK. used as a self defence product" is not legal if intend for use as a weapon.

http://www.springfields.co.uk/SpecialOffers.asp

I was considering about getting one for my partner but only if it carried a rape alarm siren that sounded when fired, but she didn't want one anyway.

I dont see how you can have a workable excuse for carrying this dye other than for a weapon as it is not exactly a can of hairspray or car paint.

2.2k · June 23, 2004

all you have to remember is that you need to be able to explain why the item is in your bag. hairspray, insect repellent etc no probs. you carry them for use and only just grabbed them in the event of an attack. you don't need mace or cs gas or anything like that. you're not trying to detain the person just occupy them long enough to get away. plus remember it's very unlikely anything is going to happen. much more likely to have a fall etc. hence the advice of making sure phone always accesible and someone knows your location.

just one point if you need help, scream "fire" it's been proven to get more response than help or rape etc. all you're after again is attention.

as for putting the boot in when the person is down. don't, can be excessive force but mainly it's delaying you from getting away. hit them hard to start with then run. unless you're name is jackie chan and can take on all comers.

more importantly get it into perspective and don't let it ruin your enjoyment of life.

just my thoughts

3.8k · June 23, 2004

(Splitting hairs I know Pharisee, but there is no such thing as pre-emptive retaliation.)

Sorry.... that was just a feeble attempt at humour :lol:

3.9k · June 23, 2004

Its always struck me as pretty simple to understand and any confusion there is, is due to the media in this country who report high profile cases in a way that sells newspapers and gets viewers, rather the actual truth / full story. A lazy reporter has an easier life if he doesn’t need to find out both sides and it also helps him if the general public believes the law is an ar*%.

Excellent.

Right about the time of the Tony Martin case (which reminded me of Neil Hamilton vs Mohamed Al-Fayed - ie, you kind of hoped both sides would lose !), there was a little-publicised case in which someone had killed a burglar who had entered his home. The burglar had a knife, and IIRC the householder stabbed him with that, although it could have been a different weapon.

In any case, it went to trial, and the householder was found not guilty. And when you looked at the case, you could see that common sense had prevailed: the burglar had been clearly armed, the householder had reason to fear for his life, he called for the police and ambulance straight away, etc.

Although I doubt if the householder felt so at the time, it was probably best for this to go to trial. That way everything is down on paper, etc. If the police had just patted the guy on the back and said "well done sir, one less piece of scum for us to catch" it would all have been rather ambiguous.

One thing which stood out for me in the Tony Martin case was how many police officers clearly agreed with prosecuting him. Only a few of the "usual suspect" Tory politicians (plus of course the arm-twitching tendency of the press) supported him, and they all backtracked pretty quickly when the facts came out, although some still grumbled about the case in a general way as if it proved some point or other.

June 23, 2004

It's also an easier target than some of the 'softer' spots. A quick stamp on the knee joint has the same effect. If it gets 'up close and personal' don't waste your energy beating on their chest, go for the face, in particular the eyes and another vulnerable collection of nerves in the top lip, just below the nose.

:lol: Remind me never to creep up on you in the woods John :lol: <_<

Might I suggest that if you are concerened about being alone that you consider getting a dog Perhaps a neighbour or friend might lend you their dog if you weren't prepared to take one on full time.

June 23, 2004

Might I suggest that if you are concerened about being alone that you consider getting a dog. Perhaps a neighbour or friend might lend you their dog if you weren't prepared to take one on full time.

I am female and do most of my caching alone and I have to confess to feeling safer when I have the dog with me. The trouble is, our dog is so friendly she'd either lick someone to death or beat them into submission with her tail! :lol:

I don't know what she'd do if I was attacked though and I hope I never find out. :lol:

I always try to get someone to come with me if I'm going to remote caches, more in case of injury than for fear of being attacked and I never cache alone after dark. Hubby usually accompanies me if it's the weekend but more recently I have teamed up with Seasider and not only is he good company but with over 1,100 caches to his name, it's unlikey I'll have a DNF if I'm with him! <_< :huh: :mad:

June 23, 2004

pmr's will scan - mine is doing so right now - and if i was looking for someone lost in the woods then it'd definately be on scanning mode. Hiking sticks could/would make good self defence but remember that a weapon used in self defence could possibly be taken away from your and used against you.

1.1k · June 23, 2004

You’re breaking the law though if you carry an item around in public for the sole intention of using it as a weapon to protect yourself, unless you can prove you've been the victim of a very recent attack.

I guess that means this product "X MARKER DEFENCE SPRAY" sold on the webpage qouted below as "LEGAL IN THE UK. used as a self defence product" is not legal if intend for use as a weapon.

http://www.springfields.co.uk/SpecialOffers.asp

I was considering about getting one for my partner but only if it carried a rape alarm siren that sounded when fired, but she didn't want one anyway.

I dont see how you can have a workable excuse for carrying this dye other than for a weapon as it is not exactly a can of hairspray or car paint.

If the foam is completely inert and doesn't causing any sort of injury, then they are probably right about it being legal. I have to say I'm not sure though. Whats to stop it being used by a robber?

To be an offensive weapon - the item has to be made, adapted or intended by the person having it to cause injury.........

I'll find out a definitive answer and get back to you.

Edited June 23, 2004 by Nick & Ali (nicktinknick)

3.9k · June 23, 2004

but remember that a weapon used in self defence could possibly be taken away from your and used against you.

http://www.pub.umich.edu/daily/1996/sep/09...ews/news13.html

"According to the FBI, 89 law enforcement officers across the nation were killed with their own weapons from 1985-1995."

If the cops can't keep hold of their gun, what chance do the rest of us have with our <Eric Idle Welsh accent on> "pointed stick" ?

1.7k · June 24, 2004

Many years ago I used to carry a Kuboto key ring, this is a piece of wood aprox 15cm long,with a keyring fastened to the end. When held in the hand it projects several cm's out from each side of the hand. And is used to strike at voneruble areas of a attacker, it was promoted by self defence classes as a legal self defence wepon, as it is legaly classed as a keyring. I believe they can still be purchased from martial arts equipment supplies. Handy as a last resort wepon, the first one, is to shout, or scream to bring attention,and not to stop whatever happens.

Dave

3.9k · June 24, 2004

1. >>it was promoted by self defence classes as a legal self defence wepon, as it is legaly classed as a keyring.

2. >> I believe they can still be purchased from martial arts equipment supplies.

I can see the prosecution lawyer having fun with that... what kind of keyring is only sold in martial arts stores ?

PS: 15 cm long eh ? Is that a keyring in your pocket or are you just glad to see me ?

1.6k · June 22, 2005

TWO things;

With regard to NicktinKnick's post, I would like to add for the benefit of everyone - the 'J' word: JUSTIFICATION

Secondly, there is nothing wrong, if one is worried about being attacked, by going to karate classes or something similar. Bear in mind, this is obviously not foolproof but does help immensely in building up the confidence that Pharisee mentions:

Walk with an air of total self confidence... If you look like you can 'handle yourself' you're perhaps less likely to be accosted than someone who look timid and frightened. If that doesn't work.... A four cell Maglite makes a formidable weapon should the need arise.

It is a fact!

Does anyone know of a great karate school in Bucks? Oooops of course..

:lol:

3.9k · June 22, 2005

I used to work the door of the university venues when I was there. I always carried a 4D maglite, it was absolutly essential for searching the building after we'd chucked out, honest officer :lol:

2k · June 23, 2005

I haven't read all of this thread as it's quite long and I've just come in from the pub :lol:

However, for about the last 12 years or so (long before geo-caching came into existence) I and a few friends have been hanging around in desolate places, woods, stone circles, ancient places and old ruins etc. just "having a look" and being nosey

In ALL that time we have only met 4 lots of people:-

2 groups were doing EXACTLY the same as us and the other two were smoking illegal substances and left in a hurry :lol:

Being a bloke I can't really give the best advice but I can say that I have met much fewer "strange" people out late at night in the woods than in a town/city centre on a Friday night!

The best I can say is, use common sense and tell someone roughly what area you are going to and what time you expect to be back (especially important in rough terrain). And carry plenty of water and grub to see you through a day in case the worst happens!

It's probably not worth worrying about the "loonies" too much, just don't take silly risks.

But, to be on the safe side:-

If you are in ANY doubt about an area then DON'T go by yourself.

And carry a torch and whistle to attract attention if you get hurt,

Don't forget your mobile phone - even if you can't get a signal, you can always play tetris/solitare whilst waiting for help!

Lone Female Geocachers

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