Environmental Thoughts

[+hedberg]

I have had a few thougths lately about geocaching and environment.

 

Isn't it strange that in the US are cachers running around picking up trash (CITO) and try to aviod stamping on rare flowers, they can't place caches anywhere in the nature...

 

At the same time are there a contest where you can win a SUV, with high fuel consumption?

 

And now... A project called Earthcache where cachers can hide virtual caches with environment theme, and it is sponsored by Subaru - another car manufactur...

 

This is not an attemp to flame.. Just a thought.. We are talking about environment and then is everything sponsored by 4x4 car manufacturs..

[+hedberg]

Just to clarify:

 

I am not an environmental nut who hates car, I use cars in my work (my work is to drive them ). Car manufacturs are among my customers.

 

But just the gerenal thought about the environment projects here at GC.com that are sponsored by companies that aren't really considered to be environmental

[+DeskJocky]

I have had a few thougths lately about geocaching and environment.

 

Isn't it strange that in the US are cachers running around picking up trash (CITO) and try to aviod stamping on rare flowers, they can't place caches anywhere in the nature...

 

At the same time are there a contest where you can win a SUV, with high fuel consumption?

 

And now... A project called Earthcache where cachers can hide virtual caches with environment theme, and it is sponsored by Subaru - another car manufactur...

 

This is not an attemp to flame.. Just a thought.. We are talking about environment and then is everything sponsored by 4x4 car manufacturs..

Welcome to America. Americans have a love for their cars (and SUVs) and our unoffical constitutional right to cheap gas. I always find it mildly entertaining when meeting someone from across the pond who asks about our trains for mass transit. But then again, I live in a state where the state (Pennsylvania) controls the sale of liqour to add to the state budget. We also can not go out just about anywhere and buy beer. Just one of the many "quirks" to our culture...

[+hedberg]

Same in Sweden. Alcohol (except light beer) are sold in only a special store owned by the government and are highly taxed. The tax is higher than the percent of alcohol inside the bottle

[+Renegade Knight]

It's a side effect of having a huge and diverse country. A lot of people with a lot of interests all jockeying to promote those interests.

[+Bull Moose]

My new Nissan Xterra pollutes less than some hippy's rusted '82 VW Fox with Greenpeace and Nader '00 bumper stickers holding it together.

So I don't feel bad driving to a trailhead. Especially since I actually use public transportation to get to work.

[+briansnat]

How about "Mr Environment", Al Gore, getting ticket for driving his rented Lincoln 75mph, or certain celebrities who lecture us "common folk" about energy consumption, while flying around the country in private jets, tooling around in gas guzzling limosines and heating and air conditioning their 10,000 square foot homes.

[+Robespierre]

Or people wanting to save whales, trees, and spotted owls who insist on the right to abort our own young?

[+JMBella]

Or people wanting to save whales, trees, and spotted owls who insist on the right to abort our own young?

Not saying I agree or disagree with that comment, I just think it's over the line for these forums.

 

Back on topic:

And now... A project called Earthcache where cachers can hide virtual caches with environment theme, and it is sponsored by Subaru - another car manufactur..

 

I haven't heard of that but I don't like that it is a virtual cache. I think it send a bad message regarding geocaching. Why can't it be a physical cache?

[+shunra]

My observation is that Americans seem to love nature but hate the environment.

 

(Disclaimers: 1 - I'm generalizing. 2 - this is true for some other places I've lived in as well, but less so.)

[+JMBella]

My observation is that Americans seem to love nature but hate the environment.

 

(Disclaimers: 1 - I'm generalizing. 2 - this is true for some other places I've lived in as well, but less so.)

I wouldn't say Americans hate the environment, it's just that Americans love driving really big vehicles.

[+AuntieWeasel]

My observation is that Americans seem to love nature but hate the environment.

Errrr...okay, I'll bite. What's the difference?

[+Renegade Knight]

My observation is that Americans seem to love nature but hate the environment.

Errrr...okay, I'll bite. What's the difference?

Maybe Shunra meant environmentalists?

[+shunra]

My observation is that Americans seem to love nature but hate the environment.

Errrr...okay, I'll bite. What's the difference?

Love the whales, the fuzzy animals, the national parks, the views, the scenery

 

but

 

Couldn't care less about clean air, clean water, climatic stability, etc.

 

Just an observation - the disclaimers in my previous post apply.

[+AuntieWeasel]

Couldn't care less about clean air, clean water, climatic stability, etc.

Oh.

 

Perhaps that's because we believe we already have those things in abundance.

[+shunra]

My observation is that Americans seem to love nature but hate the environment.

Errrr...okay, I'll bite. What's the difference?

Love the whales, the fuzzy animals, the national parks, the views, the scenery

 

but

 

Couldn't care less about clean air, clean water, climatic stability, etc.

 

Just an observation - the disclaimers in my previous post apply.

Maybe I should add: nature is local. Environment is global.

[+shunra]

Couldn't care less about clean air, clean water, climatic stability, etc.

Oh.

 

Perhaps that's because we believe we already have those things in abundance.

Yes, that's what Americans think

[+Bull Moose]

Couldn't care less about clean air, clean water, climatic stability, etc.

All right! Disposing of organic solvents and biohazards is going to be much easier on this news.

Screw all those EPA regs we've been following, I'm just going to dump it in the lake.

[+Robespierre]

Yes, that's what Americans think

Do you realize that, officially (and I'd have to search to link it), 45% of the planet is still rated as wilderness.

[+Bull Moose]

Yes, that's what Americans think

Do you realize that, officially (and I'd have to search to link it), 45% of the planet is still rated as wilderness.

That's a lot of space for some 4-5 star caches.

[+Renegade Knight]

Yes, that's what Americans think

Do you realize that, officially (and I'd have to search to link it), 45% of the planet is still rated as wilderness.

That just concentrates the pollution into the parts we live in.

[+Bull Moose]

Isn't it strange that in the US are cachers running around picking up trash (CITO) and try to aviod stamping on rare flowers, they can't place caches anywhere in the nature...

 

At the same time are there a contest where you can win a SUV, with high fuel consumption?

BTW, would you be happier if the contest was for a Volvo? That new Volvo SUV doesn't exactly run on air.

 

And before you say anything about Ford buying and ruining Volvo, they've always had some pretty big station wagons and other cars with Turbo.

[+Team Screamapillar]

We are talking about environment and then is everything sponsored by 4x4 car manufacturs..

 

Perhaps the issue is that you don't see the distinction between Outdoor Recreation enthusiasts and the current Environmental movement. While there is significant overlap in these two "movements," they are also often at odds- both as lobby groups and in the heart & soul of many individuals.

 

Probably the clearest way to draw the distinction is the debate over snowmobile use in our national parks. Some people enjoy nature and feel they are connecting with it via snowmobiling, and at the other end of the spectrum, some see it as an environmentally wreckless pursuit that should be prohibited. Most of us fall somewhere in the middle (whether or not we participate in the activity).

 

Food for thought: Teddy Roosevelt put the Conservationist movement into practical action at the national political level, founding our national parks and preserving great tracts of land. Then he went into that wilderness and on safari in Africa, bagging elk, rhinos and lions as trophies. Was he some kind of hypocrite?- I don't think so- he loved the outdoors and wanted to see it preserved (preserved, skinned and stuffed in his fireplace den [;]) for others to enjoy as well. He was All-American, red white and blue.

[+5nomads]

Well put Team Screamapillar.

 

The breakdown in logic is to assume that the people who really care for the environment and those who are owners of SUVs are mutually exclusive. That may be true for some people, who choose not to own and SUV in order to reduce total emissions. However there are many owners who are simultaneously users and protectors of the environment.

 

A good parallel is the waterfowl hunter's organization Ducks Unlimited. No one person or organization has done more to preserve and protect wetlands in North America. They have purchased, restored, and preserved millions of acres of pristine wetlands that are critical habitat for waterfowl and other species and have active conservation programs running in every single U.S. state. I think that the reason they are so successful is that a majority of their members have a personal recreational interest in protecting wild game and their sport. A common misconception is that hunters want to hunt their prey into extinction (correctly termed “poachers”).

 

Of course, this is simply a general majority case, there are always irresponsible individuals on every side of every issue. However, I think that similar to hunters, the majority of outdoor enthusiasts who choose to spend their free time in pursuit of natural fun like geo-caching (and use an SUV to get there), are more likely to be active protectors of that same area.

[+Bull Moose]

5nomads and TeamS - Bravo.

 

I have often thought it funny that since I drive and SUV I am looked down upon by some environmentalists.

Truth is that since I am a hunter, I've probably put more time, money, and energy towards keeping wild areas than the average Sierra Club member - and hence more trees.

 

My geoname is in honor of Teddy Roosevelt who knew what John Muir did not - that the best way to keep wild areas was to keep as many people interested as possible - hunters, recreationists, and yes, logging companies. I'm sure he'd see 4X4s and mounain bikes as another tool to do that.

Edited August 21, 2004 by Bull Moose

[+AuntieWeasel]

the best way to keep wild areas was to keep as many people interested as possible

I've heard it said that the best way to protect a species is to give humans a taste for it. Are chickens endangered?

 

Worth remembering that John James Audubon was a crack shot. He had to be. If he messed up a bird killing it, how could he paint it? A lot of early conservationists were hunters. I mean, hunters were out there and the first to know when problems were happening in the wild. My grandfather, an obsessive hunter, was one of the founders of his state's conservation league.

 

I'm passionate about preserving and protecting wild places. The problem is, from my own attempts to work out the facts, I don't trust either side of most environmental questions. I find environmental questions some of the hardest issues to get to the bottom of.

[+Torry]

Amen to the latter additions... If the wilderness were off-limits to everyone then there would soon be NO wilderness. John Q. Public couldn't care less about a bunch of rees unless he has a chance to stroll through the forest and listen to the sound of life.

 

As for the car people getting into the caching activities... It's more of a recognition that we are growing in numbers significant enough for the rest of the world to notice.